"Classic" Gametypes?

[KazuhLLL]

(Someone in a lobby sparked this idea in me, so sorry I don't remember who you are!)

Note that the settings I'm proposing would be only used for remake maps. Specifically CE/H2/H3.

With trying to find a Construct remake last battle, and a Guardian remake this week, there's been a lot of talk about remakes. Whenever anyone is talking about a map that was remade in Halo 4, there are always complaints along the lines of:
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but the DMR breaks it.
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but the Jetpack breaks it.
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but Sprint breaks it.
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but spawning with Plasma Pistols ruins the vehicle combat.
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but spawning with Plasma Grenades ruins the vehicle combat.
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but the Boltshotters ruin the former awesomeness.
That map worked well in CE/H2/H3/Reach, but the Camo-crouching snipers ruin the former awesomeness.



So, with that in mind, here comes my suggestion:
How about, for maps that are remade from past games, we have a set of "Classic" gametypes to go along with them? Some of you may say that we have plenty of gametypes already, (and we don't want to give Myth more work!) but honestly part of being "Classic" would be no personal ordnance, which (I believe) is the most time consuming thing with editing gametypes anyways. I'd even volunteer to be the one to post them on my file share, if that were an issue.


There are few settings details that might need to be hammered out/voted on, but in general I'd say:


No personal ordnance.
No personal loadouts.
No armor abilities.
(Possibly) use the modded gametypes have sprint disabled.
Either BR/AR start or have a preset loadout for each.
Primary: Assault Rifle/Battle RIfle
Secondary: Magnum
Grenade: Frag
Armor Ability: N/A
Tactical: Resupply
Support: Explosives? (debatable)



Anyway, let me know what you guys think about the possibility! Again, my proposal is that these setting would be used only for remake maps.








inb4 "Just go play Halo 3."

[Toast78901]

Just go play Halo 3 xD

No, but in all seriousness. This will make me cry. As the series advances it is time for us to do the same and that means adaptations as all. If a remake can't be a strict tile-for-tile remake because we need to change something to better suit Halo 4, then so be it. But please not this :(

[Anarchy]

Im never the one complaining like that, so I have no problem either way.

Honestly people just take remakes WAYYY too seriously.

[riphelix]

In a way I like this idea, but also in another way I have to agree with Toast. Maybe there could be room for compromise and somehow combine the two? Who knows..

Also, any chance of Halo 2 map remakes?

[Zeta Crossfire]

I'm currently in a community that plays Halo 4 because I like to play Halo 4. If I wanted to go play Halo 3 or any other Halo game I would. I would not participate in anymore battle nights if these changes went into effect.

[KazuhLLL]

No, but in all seriousness. This will make me cry. As the series advances it is time for us to do the same and that means adaptations as all. If a remake can't be a strict tile-for-tile remake because we need to change something to better suit Halo 4, then so be it. But please not this :(

In a perfect world, I would agree with you. I'd very much like to play remake maps that optimally suit Halo 4's sandbox without having to adjust the settings dramatically. However, from a forging standpoint: Remakes are easy. Map design is not. It's hard enough to find good remake maps that both look pretty and don't lag horribly. Trying to find a version that does justice to the original while also making it play similarly with the new sandbox would be darn near impossible.

With these suggested map/gametype settings, I wouldn't be against having certain weapons from Halo 4 in them if it fit that particular map well enough, but other than that I'd want them to be as "classic" as possible. :P


EDIT:

I'm currently in a community that plays Halo 4 because I like to play Halo 4. If I wanted to go play Halo 3 or any other Halo game I would. I would not participate in anymore battle nights if these changes went into effect.

Well, jeez. I'd hoped to get at least 5 comments in before people started tossing ultimatums around.. >.<

[Coda]

For some random customs? sure! But for the official FC gametypes... no. Just go play Halo 3 if you want to play Halo 3. Or 2, or whatever. It's an idea, but we need to progress with the game.

[Mythonian]

The major problem with using a wider variety of gametypes is accessibility. We try to stay rather close to default matchmaking gametypes so that members don't have a steep learning curve when joining the community. There are a few notable differences (15-min, unlimited score, ordnance in all gametypes, a few objective differences, etc.), but nothing that really requires long to get accustomed to.

"Classic" gametypes would, however, put forth a learning curve. It changes LOTS of gameplay mechanics and plays totally different from matchmaking. And then this in combination with our regular gametypes (especially if we use one set for one map and the other set for the second map in battle nights), would confuse newer members greatly.

If we cannot get a map to work with H4 well enough, then I'd rather stop using that map than come up with a whole new set of gametypes just for them. Not worth it IMO.


Also, any chance of Halo 2 map remakes?

The Pit, Sanctuary, Simplex (inspired by Midship) are currently in this war already. We might use others in the future (have looked at Turf and other remakes), but only time will tell.

[KazuhLLL]

The major problem with using a wider variety of gametypes is accessibility. We try to stay rather close to default matchmaking gametypes so that members don't have a steep learning curve when joining the community. There are a few notable differences (15-min, unlimited score, ordnance in all gametypes, a few objective differences, etc.), but nothing that really requires long to get accustomed to.

"Classic" gametypes would, however, put forth a learning curve. It changes LOTS of gameplay mechanics and plays totally different from matchmaking. And then this is combination with our regular gametypes (especially if we use one set for one map and the other set for the second map in battle nights), would confuse newer members greatly.

If we cannot get a map to work with H4 well enough, then I'd rather stop using that map than come up with a whole new set of gametypes just for them. Not worth it IMO.

I've argued against many gametype settings in the past specifically for accessibility reasons. There's a laundry list of things that I'd like removed/banned from out gametypes, but I understand all too well how a learning curve could be an issue. My argument on that point is that remakes have always seemed, at least to me, to exist as a "throwback" to previous games. And the fact that said remakes are put in the wars have (again, to me) been as a throwback for those that have played the previous games. So there'd essentially only be a learning curve for those who's first Halo was Reach. And most of those people are too young to be in the community anyways. :P

IMO, the DMR alone "breaks" 99% of remake maps. Not necessarily to unplayable levels, but they do change the dynamic of them completely (i.e. Ragnarok).

[KillerGUNNY132]

Naw.

Keep Halo 4, Halo 4. I think adding in different gametypes would over complicate things. If you don't think an older Halo map would play well with Halo 4, then don't include. Simple as that. No need to go and specify gametypes for maps.

[MDMYAY]

This is (in my opinion) an absolutely wonderful idea, and I love you for putting the pole forward kaz <3

[Deaf]

Weird the ultimatums some have the nerve to throw around. I'm actually your biggest supporter on this. I personally would be an enormous fan of AGL settings on all maps, because there are those who sit with camo and snipers completely breaking the game. The DMR itself is a terrible weapon which takes away skill and breaks virtually every map. The AR might change in this next update (I hope it does), but at the moment it contains no skill, with incredible aim assist so you can spray and pray. It's not that much of a learning curve. Instead of picking your own loadouts, here are what you can use. Done. It's all just point and shoot.

[MDMYAY]

....I'm actually your biggest supporter on this....

I disagree. I'M your biggest supporter.

[bl4yze]

Maybe not classic gametypes per-se. But on maps which the jetpack just destroys the strategy on, the jetpack should be a pickup and not allowed in ordnance somehow.

[ThatAwkardGuy]

<3. Br all day, forget the dmr.

[Platinum]

While I love AGL settings and what not, I disagree with this. It would be too much work for Myth, plus it would over complicate things. We should stick with what we use now.

The BR has already been confirmed to be a 4-shot plus the DMR is having a minor nerf. Jetpacks aren't as game breaking in this game like Reach, so they don't bother me. Camo sniping punishes those who run out in the open, I honestly don't have as many issues with these players because I simply know that they are common so I avoid running out into the open. This game isn't as broken as most people believe, its just different.

If you don't like the game, then please feel free to sell it.

[VerbotenDonkey]

On the Classic Gametyes: we should try to limit the amount of gametypes we have. They all already don't all fit on Myths fileshare (maybe, I remember when he didnt have regular Slayer on it LOL), and adding a whole new type is only going to make it more confusing. As was said, if it doesn't work with Halo 4, it probably shouldn't be in the Wars.

As far as AGL settings go, what we have now is pretty balanced (no loadout far dominates the others) and it allows everyone to pick and choose their own loadouts that they're comfortable with. This degree of freedom is exactly what our war simulation needed and it allows you to pick loadouts to fit the various environments you'll be experiencing and lets you deal with battles the way that you want to take them on with. Whether it's stealthing to the objective or picking a demolition class with extra grenades, it allows you the freedom to deal with situations however you want.

[Silko]

While I understand where this is coming from the need to further complicate things is not necessary. Past Halos where fun in their own way, let Halo 4 embed it's self into our memories on it's own

[Sir Nihlus]

I agree with some of the comments here, this is no longer Halo 2/ 3/ Reach. So, in my opinion, we should focus more on trying to get with the times and embrace the changes that the game has offered to us; make the most of them, and not linger around the nostalgia pipe with all these remakes and classic game types. Furthermore, I don't think for a minute that most FC members spent $60 just to play the game 'like' Halo 2, 3 or Reach, I know I didn't.

[Guzzie]

Sorry bro, not about to start our with an AR.

[bl4yze]

Sorry bro, not about to start our with an AR.

It's the most powerful gun in the game scrub

[Platinum]

It's the most powerful gun in the game scrub

You guys are forgetting the Plasma Pistol.

[KazuhLLL]

Sorry bro, not about to start our with an AR.

When I said, "Either BR/AR start" I mean as in Firepower style. BR primary and AR secondary. (I think that's what we did in Halo 3, but I remember for sure.)

Unless you knew that and were refusing to start with an AR secondary. If so:

It's the most powerful gun in the game scrub

[Yehsus]

I say we all gang up on kazuhll

[MDMYAY]

It's the most powerful gun in the game scrub

[Guzzie]

It's the most powerful gun in the game scrub
I could care less as to how powerful it is. It takes no skill to use and it truly isn't a fun weapon to shoot.

[Jam Cliché]

I would rather not play a remake than have to change the gametype for it. I don't see any point in going backwards. Play Halo 4 as it is. That is another reason I supported Templar over Guardian, because it feels better in Halo 4 than Guardian does. Frankly, Construct may have played differently in Halo 4, but its size was perfect even for jetpacking and sprint.

[Dos Eggys]

Just go play Halo 3 xD

No, but in all seriousness. This will make me cry. As the series advances it is time for us to do the same and that means adaptations as all. If a remake can't be a strict tile-for-tile remake because we need to change something to better suit Halo 4, then so be it. But please not this :(

I agree with Toast. I'd rather see a map with a gametype that utilizes Halo 4 features than a map and gametype meant for pure nostalgia.

[Guzzie]

I would rather not play a remake than have to change the gametype for it. I don't see any point in going backwards. Play Halo 4 as it is. That is another reason I supported Templar over Guardian, because it feels better in Halo 4 than Guardian does. Frankly, Construct may have played differently in Halo 4, but its size was perfect even for jetpacking and sprint.
The settings don't have to be changed, and truly, the most "game breaking" addition to the recent halo games has been sprint. Sprint alone changes the overall feel of any map. When people design forged maps to accustom sprint, maps tend to become very open, thus changing the aesthetic and structural aspect of what was once a good map. Weapons don't really change the gameplay for me, so changing from a DMR start to a BR/AR start it needless in my opinion.

[Sir Nihlus]

Why does it matter so much if a gun doesn't 'need skill' to use? How is that even defined without it being opinionated and subjective to personal experience? If I can kill my opponent with a particular weapon quickly and efficiently so that I can win for my team, I could care less if people thought the DMR or Assault Rifle was trash for example, as that's their opinion and experience with it, not mine. Quite frankly, all the weapons require skill to use just for it to even kill someone effectively. Then again, the definition of 'skill' is not even clear-cut.

[bl4yze]

PEople aren't saying the DMR or AR are trash. Some people just like a challenge when they play.

[Deaf]

Yeah, I agree with Blayze, I don't think it's that hard to understand this simple concept. Some people are content with using weapons which break maps and take away any skill in order to win even though they refuse to practice Halo competitively. That way they can win a fluke game or two every so often even though they play nothing but duck hunt, frogger, infection, or something similar. It seems half of our community prefers a set startup so that skill can truly matter and some of 343i's poor ideas don't ruin a wonderful franchise. And Rain, I would say that skill is very clearcut. Everyone here knows that there isn't equality in the squads. We know which teams are good and tough, and which teams aren't as competitive. Same with people. Some are better than others. Like when you realize that there's not a weapon in the game(besides plasma pistol, pulse grenades and maybe the suppressor) that has trouble killing enemies quickly and efficiently. That is skill.

[BaD InTentZs]

I couldn't agree more with a "Classic" variant. The returning numbers would be staggering. I actually favor the H4 BR over the H2, H3 variants. WIN!!

[C-Dumps]

ok i see half the people that have voted are all saying the same thing like keep halo 4 halo 4 or go back to halo 3.
1st this will be a game type that can be chosen its not like its the only game type available
2nd halo 4 has a game type just like it and its called pro bc it takes away all the added in handicaps like ordances or abilities all those do is make it a more even playing field so kids who may not be able to br or dmr can get a power weapon out of an ordanace.
3rd the classic pro game type will bring out true team work and control of a map if that "GAMETYPE" is voted for