Get rid of all 8v8 maps for the wars

[Zeta Crossfire]

The very first battle of the war we played on a big map with 16 players and even though it had lag everyone still played. Now on the last 2 8V8 maps we have switched the player count to 6v6 because we are scared of lag. Ok I realize I'm in the minority and perfer 8v8 gametypes so why are we still playing with 8v8 maps? Why are these maps in the war rotation if we aren't willing to risk lag? Strongside felt small with 6v6, and we never use the whole map in a 6v6 game on exile. Let's just get rid of these maps and cap battles for now on at 6v6 or 4v4 at the highest.

Let the community decide on the issue now and we can bring this back up when Halo 5 comes out.

[Mythonian]

Maps that work fine with 8v8s with effectively no framerate issues:

Ragnarok
Vortex
Longbow
Meltdown
Shatter
Infiltrator
Ortelius
Titan


Why should we remove the good maps just because there are one or two maps that have framerate issues for 8v8s?

[Zeta Crossfire]

I go into 8v8 matches on exile on the time with realtively few lag issues. I've had lag on every map you listed including exile, but it never is enough to completely destroy my game experiance.

Since there might be lag on Vortex then shouldn't we just cap it now? It lagged on meltdown last time we played so shouldn't that get a cap as well?

[JonOU812]

capping for 4v4 would just be retarded and compose lots of problems. Less people = more games. More people = less games and things would run more smoothly.

Edit: and yes I understand that lag is an issue with more people. However it is not the maps fault, tis the shitty host that you are playing with, most of the time.

[Mythonian]

I go into 8v8 matches on exile on the time with realtively few lag issues. I've had lag on every map you listed including exile, but it never is enough to completely destroy my game experiance.

Since there might be lag on Vortex then shouldn't we just cap it now? It lagged on meltdown last time we played so shouldn't that get a cap as well?

I've never had framerate lag in FC games on Meltdown, Vortex, or the others, and I don't recall hearing about notable framerate issues.

Issues with framerate will be taken on a case-by-case basis.

[bazongaman502]

We aren't dropping any 8v8 maps mid war. I can promise you that right now lol

I know we just dropped Exile to 6v6, but its one of those maps that is small enough to maintain a solid game.

But maps like Ragnarok(REDDs Cap.) anything less than a 8v8 drags the game out much longer... Have you played Rag. in a 6v6 or less? You hardly ever get to many points if any at all.

When its a small enough map like Exile, then a 6v6 is a good choice. But not when they are huge maps like Rag.

[bl4yze]

First off the lag being experienced isn't the typical "bad host" lag, it's framerate lag. Halo already runs at 30fps, so any drop from that ruins the entire experience. On Exile during the last war, I pushed into B when there were about 4 enemies and some nades going off and a regen field and experienced what was probably 5fps.

Second of all, I think that these maps have been optimized to play smoothly with the on-disc gametypes. Adding upwards of 3 gametypes, and all the aesthetics that go with them, is what I believe is causing these issues. Even though they're not visible in all gametypes, I think they may still be putting strain on the game. Of course this is all speculation, but when I've played [custom] 8v8s on the on-disc maps, and not the FC variations, I haven't experienced these fps issues.

So my proposal; Use the stock gametypes for each of the maps. This would (in my opinion) add a bit more strategy and foresight for the FMs, as they would have to alter their routes to acquire the necessary amount of gametype wins for the war, since not all gametypes would be available on every map.

[Mythonian]

First off the lag being experienced isn't the typical "bad host" lag, it's framerate lag. Halo already runs at 30fps, so any drop from that ruins the entire experience. On Exile during the last war, I pushed into B when there were about 4 enemies and some nades going off and a regen field and experienced what was probably 5fps.

Second of all, I think that these maps have been optimized to play smoothly with the on-disc gametypes. Adding upwards of 3 gametypes, and all the aesthetics that go with them, is what I believe is causing these issues. Even though they're not visible in all gametypes, I think they may still be putting strain on the game. Of course this is all speculation, but when I've played [custom] 8v8s on the on-disc maps, and not the FC variations, I haven't experienced these fps issues.

So my proposal; Use the stock gametypes for each of the maps. This would (in my opinion) add a bit more strategy and foresight for the FMs, as they would have to alter their routes to acquire the necessary amount of gametype wins for the war, since not all gametypes would be available on every map.

If you mean that invisible forge objects (such as objectives, spawn points, etc.) are causing issues, then I don't think that's accurate.

The current FC version actually has fewer numbers of forge objects on the map, and actually has lower objects overall. Exile by default was compatible with pretty much all our gametypes. I think we added 2-3 locations for Extraction, and maybe 1-2 for KotH, but we removed the spawns for every other team besides REDD/BLUE and unnecessary respawn zones, as well as the tank and numerous weapon drop locations.

[bl4yze]

If you mean that invisible forge objects (such as objectives, spawn points, etc.) are causing issues, then I don't think that's accurate.

The current FC version actually has fewer numbers of forge objects on the map, and actually has lower objects overall. Exile by default was compatible with pretty much all our gametypes. I think we added 2-3 locations for Extraction, and maybe 1-2 for KotH, but we removed the spawns for every other team besides REDD/BLUE and unnecessary respawn zones, as well as the tank and numerous weapon drop locations.

As I said, it was all speculation, however the map sizes do increase when adding forge pieces. I may do a test to see, by putting a bunch of high poly objects in with a certain gametype tag, then open up the map in a different gametype and see if there's any correlation.

[Guzzie]

I voted on capping at 6v6s because I like smaller maps better, however, getting rid of all of the 8v8s would be a bit extreme in my mind. If anything, make only the capital an 8v8, that way, when the time comes, the capital battle does seem larger in scale.

Some lag is manageable, but there are some cases where maps become unplayable. I think switching a few maps from 8v8s to 6v6s to change that is a good, progressive approach to improve the battles.

[Nicholas Sapien]

8v8s should stay just cause a few maps might have issues doesn't mean the rest would

[Silko]

Um no.

[Zeta Crossfire]

Most people voting for 8v8? We should make Exile 8v8 for tomorrow.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Most people voting for 8v8? We should make Exile 8v8 for tomorrow.

Agreed
Let's make Myth overturn his descision

[bazongaman502]

Most people voting for 8v8? We should make Exile 8v8 for tomorrow.

You're kinda looking at it the wrong way. Maps like Exile are good for 6v6's. But when they are as large as Ragnarock or Vortex, then an 8v8 is required otherwise the gameplay will feel slow.

Exile has always worked well with 6v6's. But maps any larger than that need to hold more people.

[Zeta Crossfire]

You're kinda looking at it the wrong way. Maps like Exile are good for 6v6's. But when they are as large as Ragnarock or Vortex, then an 8v8 is required otherwise the gameplay will feel slow.

Exile has always worked well with 6v6's. But maps any larger than that need to hold more people.

This is where I disagree. It works, but it's not optimal. Good portions of the map aren't used much and the game play feels slower. 8v8 just feels like the correct number of people for that map.

[bazongaman502]

This is where I disagree. It works, but it's not optimal. Good portions of the map aren't used much and the game play feels slower. 8v8 just feels like the correct number of people for that map.

Here try this:

Go into a custom game on Exile. Time yourself how long it takes you to run from one base to the other. If it can be done in under 15 seconds, 6v6 is best for it. But if it takes you more than 15 seconds, then it needs to be larger amounts of people. Otherwise Objective games will be far to simple for some.

I want to make this clear, I fully understand what you are saying and I kinda agree, but im just more against it compared to for it :/

[Relapsive]

Um no.

Arguably the best rebuttal ever.

[OPOC1L1PSE]

Doesn't matter to me. Either way, it'll be a fun experience.

[KazuhLLL]

Most people voting for 8v8? We should make Exile 8v8 for tomorrow.
With the other two options being ridiculous, obviously everyone voting would vote for the third option.


This is where I disagree. It works, but it's not optimal. Good portions of the map aren't used much and the game play feels slower. 8v8 just feels like the correct number of people for that map.
The same portions of that map that aren't used in 6v6's aren't used in 8v8's either. That's more of a testament to the map's flow than it's size. Despite what people keep saying, Exile is not a huge map.

[silversleek]

Agreed
Let's make Myth overturn his descision

yup. i've never had framerate lag on any 8v8 map, especially exile. i've only had the "bad host" lag.

[VerbotenDonkey]

There really aren't enough 8v8s which are my favorite. :(

[Zeta Crossfire]

There really aren't enough 8v8s which are my favorite. :(

[HighLight]

I like 8v8, just not on forge maps.

[Anarchy]

The day we remove all 8v8s is the day I lose all hope in FC.

Its sad enough already half the maps on the warmap are 4v4s, and half of those are/were MLG maps.

[Sicarioano]

The day we remove all 8v8s is the day I lose all hope in FC.

Its sad enough already half the maps on the warmap are 4v4s, and half of those are/were MLG maps.

I agree here. If there's one thing I've learned about playing Halo, is it's going to lag and you're going to have to suck it up and play. 8v8's are what made Halo what it is...take thought, you're just not playing the game how it should be and we'll just become some MLG community 4v4ing all the damn time.

[Platinum]

I don't see how doing 4v4s makes us a MLG community. :/

Damn all those Infinity Slayer players must be gods.

[Guzzie]

I don't see how doing 4v4s makes us a MLG community. :/

This poll was completely unnecessary. Zeta, I know you were against making Exile a 6v6, you were very vocal about it, but please accept what has been decided. FC will not be getting rid of 8v8s, it would be wrong; however, there are maps that lag, that is a fact. The decision was made to make Exile a 6v6, not by one person, but by the majority of the community. Sometimes those changes have to be made to improve gameplay. Please accept the decision the majority of the community has made.
Talking about making FC entirely 4v4s and MLG (MLG and Halo don't even relate anymore) is completely baseless and just a way for you to prove a point.

[ThatAwkardGuy]

I don't know about you but I rarely have lag issues on 8 v 8. If I do it will be on an a forge made map on impact. Also lul at the MLG comments: ordinance, radar, starting AAs, multiple loadouts + a couple good 4 v 4 maps(that just happen to be used in major competitive halo tournaments because they are good maps) does not equal MLG.

8 v 8 ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nicholas Sapien]

8 v 8 ftw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yehsus]

8V8 works fine I never run into frame rate issues unless is dominion...

Why dont we just get rid of the Dominion gametype?

[bazongaman502]

8V8 works fine I never run into frame rate issues unless is dominion...

Why dont we just get rid of the Dominion gametype?

It's a well liked game mode

[Spartanbh]

8V8 works fine I never run into frame rate issues unless is dominion...

Why dont we just get rid of the Dominion gametype?

Change Dominion to Hill 30. One capture point, no defense shit.

[PendulumBlainz]

nah dude dominion is a 6v6 playlist and a silly one at that but 8v8 on this game is so much diffrent than 8v8 on reach so i suggest certain maps that are specific for 8v8 such as settler, Ragnarok, or a forged map that isnt completely unbalanced like the other maps in the btb playlists

[bazongaman502]

Change Dominion to Hill 30. One capture point, no defense shit.

Hill 30 is already being used, unless you are implying to remove Dominion in general

[VerbotenDonkey]

I find it ironic I lagged a ton on the 4v4 map and none on Exile. :P

[Mythonian]

I find it ironic I lagged a ton on the 4v4 map and none on Exile. :P

I think 343 has just decided to become trolls.

[bazongaman502]

I think 343 has just decided to become trolls.

Halo 4 was their biggest one lol

[SuRroundeD By 1]

To be honest, even though they can lag sometimes, I love the 8v8's, it makes the battle seem more like an actual battle between two large forces. We're armies for godsakes XD

That's why sometimes I wish that we had ended up having a Battlefield war, it would have been epic! But I understand the problems with it haha

[Spartanbh]

Hill 30 is already being used, unless you are implying to remove Dominion in general

No, get rid of that god awful KOTH version of Hill 30 and remove the generic dominion gametype, but create a new Dominion where we have one capture point in the middle of a map and change that gametype to Hill 30.

[Nicholas Sapien]

No, get rid of that god awful KOTH version of Hill 30 and remove the generic dominion gametype, but create a new Dominion where we have one capture point in the middle of a map and change that gametype to Hill 30.

Agreed

[Dos Eggys]

No, get rid of that god awful KOTH version of Hill 30 and remove the generic dominion gametype, but create a new Dominion where we have one capture point in the middle of a map and change that gametype to Hill 30.
Seconded. After this war of course.

[Anarchy]

No, get rid of that god awful KOTH version of Hill 30 and remove the generic dominion gametype, but create a new Dominion where we have one capture point in the middle of a map and change that gametype to Hill 30.

Genius. Sort of. It still wont be like Reach's hill 30 because instead of just being in the territory to capture it, you have to be at one exact spot. Gives less options, makes it tons easier to defend.

[Jam Cliché]

Genius. Sort of. It still wont be like Reach's hill 30 because instead of just being in the territory to capture it, you have to be at one exact spot. Gives less options, makes it tons easier to defend.

That spot can have its radius increased though.