I don't think excessive spawn killing should be allowed.

[westraptor]

Spawn killing is a tactic I despise in every shooter I've played. Matches last 15 minutes in FC and last battle night, I sat through 15 grueling minutes of being spawn killed. The only reason I didn't leave was because I didn't want to let my squad down.

Spawn kill also just ruins the game for the team being spawned killed. I just think there should be some rule that limits it, or ends it.

[PhoenixPrime]

While you do bring up an interesting point, most shooters suffer from this occurrence. The only thing to be done about it would be for the forge team to really tweak the spawn zones and spawn point layout. It's a very difficult thing to accomplish by itself, and really takes hours and hours to fix.


I'd like to hear what others have to say on the matter.

[Carpe Vexillum]

Why does spawn killing happen?

Spawn killing happens when another team over powers, gets map control, or gains the advantage over another team for a significant amount of time. This generally happens on open maps or in open bases.

Can you really stop spawn killing?

Yes and No. The requirement for spawn killing would be that the players who are better or have the advantage would need to stop killing the other team and let them have the advantage. This is not how most shooter games function.

Is this a feasible option?

No. If a team is better at tactics or simply in skill than another team it is not their fault and should not be punished for it. The real problem lies with the balance of player skill, that with custom games is harder to do. And even in matchmaking the TRU SKILL system fails.

What are other options?

We here at FC or most of us anyway always strive to be better. Practice and become better with tactics and at the game. Recruit better players if your army happens to be down on them or become that player. But of course negotiating a better matching system as far as skill goes. (aka a ranking system for each squad). Or creating unreachable areas on these open maps and bases near spawn that are hidden or protected.


The nitty gritty. . .

It's very hard to balance this sort of issue, most of the time if you face a group better than yours, you just have to bear through it and realize this is all about fun as much as it is about competition.

[ThatAwkardGuy]

As ideal as it sounds that seems like something that cannot be changed.

[westraptor]

What I do is simply stay in and control the middle of the map. On maps where you are either in your spawn, the middle, or the enemy spawn it is kind of hard not to spawn kill since you only have 3 places to be and one place would get you spawn killed.

I only attempt to spawn kill when the enemy is trying to spawn kill my team or when the enemy won't come to me ( I go to them).

Then again I know how frustrating being spawn killed is so I try my best not to do it to other players.

P.S. Non-linear maps will help against spawn killing.

[Anarchy]

There is an option to give someone special traits for the first "X" seconds after they re spawn. Though I wouldn't support it, there is /actually/ something there that would stop it.


But no one wakes up in the morning and says "I'm going to win by spawn killing". People are naturally going to kill who they see in a game, if it's because you just spawned, so be it, they don't know that. But people aren't specifically using it "as a tactic". It's just an occurrence.

[riphelix]

I'm right there with you West. We were in those games together and I too didn't rage quit due to not wanting to let my team down. There was just no fun at all in those matches..

[Guzzie]

There are plenty of things you can do to get out of being spawn killed. It just comes down to recognizing what to do in those scenarios. As for stopping spawn camping all together, I don't think the team that fought to get map controlled should be punished. It would diminish the importance of map control. Your team should be punished for not being able to get map control.

[Dos Eggys]

I'm right there with you West. We were in those games together and I too didn't rage quit due to not wanting to let my team down. There was just no fun at all in those matches..

There was just no fun at all in those matches..
Isn't this community founded on the ideal of respectful fun? I hardly think our current rotation system works to uphold this. When pro teams are let lose upon the more casual Halo players, how is that meant to be fun for the team who is getting absolutely destroyed? The retention rate for new members who are casual Halo players is going to drop if this keeps happening.


Your team should be punished for not being able to get map control.
This should help further drive my point. We shouldn't be "punishing" casual Halo players for not being pro players.

[Anarchy]

Isn't this community founded on the ideal of respectful fun? I hardly think our current rotation system works to uphold this. When pro teams are let lose upon the more casual Halo players, how is that meant to be fun for the team who is getting absolutely destroyed? The retention rate for new members who are casual Halo players is going to drop if this keeps happening.


This should help further drive my point. We shouldn't be "punishing" casual Halo players for not being pro players.

Eh, urias we talked about this, for the most part LR has just been getting unlucky... And I know that's not a satisfying answer, but it is what it is...

As for having "professional" or competitive teams be involved, that comes down to a recruitment issue.

[Dos Eggys]

Eh, urias we talked about this, for the most part LR has just been getting unlucky... And I know that's not a satisfying answer, but it is what it is...
And that's supposed to calm me when less than half my squad (casual Halo Players, mind you) don't show up for Battle Nights anymore because they are tired of being "punished" for not being top tier players?

[Carpe Vexillum]

There comes a point in a competitive game, casual or not where people have to gracefully or at least respectfully accept their losses. Whether its by a little or a land slide. Take it with dignity and persevere into better games.

On the other hand it isn't fair if a team is unfairly matched against players who are much, much better. Perhaps more caution could be used when setting up games. Could it be a possibility to set up matches previous to battle nights and then edit them if people don't show up?

[VerbotenDonkey]

And that's supposed to calm me when less than half my squad (casual Halo Players, mind you) don't show up for Battle Nights anymore because they are tired of being "punished" for not being top tier players?

I feel you, Urias. A lot of REDWATCH is casual or was in the past. One day I hope we go large enough so that we can keep the casual players fighting each other and the more competitive players play each other. But right now, we just have to play the cards we're dealt.

[Guzzie]

As far as I know, there are no professional teams in FC, not even close to that. Just people who play a certain playlist WAY too much (wink wink).As for teams being "punished", it was my diction that made it seem worse than what I actually meant. It is more of a matter of a team being rewarded for their efforts regarding map control, rather than the other being "punished".

- - - Updated - - -



On the other hand it isn't fair if a team is unfairly matched against players who are much, much better. Perhaps more caution could be used when setting up games. Could it be a possibility to set up matches previous to battle nights and then edit them if people don't show up?
First of all, no one really knows what squads will show up on battle nights. Some people can't get on every weekend, rotations change. As for setting up matches previous to battle nights, or editing them, who is going to edit them. Your idea of a good squad probably differs from mine. The best way to approach the rotation is to continue doing what we have been doing this war. Some teams might end up matching up against a better team, but overall, I have not been hearing anything about a rotation being tampered with to give a side the advantage.

[Sicarioano]

First of all, no one really knows what squads will show up on battle nights.

Not true, I've heard of people not getting on because they were a weaker squad and their "leaders" told them not to show.

And going to the higher skilled teams in FC. Most people here haven't been playing Halo competitively for their entire life and don't know how to escape the spawn kill. Nor do they care about map control, which are key factors in competitive gaming. Most are here to have FUN and not get stuck getting analed the entire 15 minutes. We are a casual community and getting "rewarded" by getting 10 million fucking kills off a weaker squad and diminishing their fun is just no excuse. I think it should be limited any way possible.

[Anarchy]

As far as I know, there are no professional teams in FC, not even close to that. Just people who play a certain playlist WAY too much (wink wink).As for teams being "punished", it was my diction that made it seem worse than what I actually meant. It is more of a matter of a team being rewarded for their efforts regarding map control, rather than the other being "punished".

- - - Updated - - -


First of all, no one really knows what squads will show up on battle nights. Some people can't get on every weekend, rotations change. As for setting up matches previous to battle nights, or editing them, who is going to edit them. Your idea of a good squad probably differs from mine. The best way to approach the rotation is to continue doing what we have been doing this war. Some teams might end up matching up against a better team, but overall, I have not been hearing anything about a rotation being tampered with to give a side the advantage.

The problem with the rotation now is exactly why I supported just letting FMs work it out together. We have certain units playing you, VbD, and now Velocity, an extreme amount of times more than other units, at least in BLUE. It's not so simple for REDD because we just don't have the consistently OP teams like that. Less forced rotation means we can fix "unlucky" into something more fair.

[Guzzie]

I don't know about you but I think it is wrong of a squad leader to tell his members not to get on on a battle night for fear of loosing (your not even guaranteed of being matched up against a top squad). That leader should be spoken to.

As for the rotation, we can talk about it all you want, and I have stated my thoughts on it multiple times. I am actually a bit tired of talking about it. Do what you want, at the end of the day, I'll play whoever I am matched up against.

Cheers.

[KillerGUNNY132]

No. Just...no.

I understand your frustration. I really do. But in no way do I support punishing a squad for having good map control and controlling a team's spawn. It takes some skill to get map control and I am 110 percent against stopping a squad from playing a certain way just because they're too good. Once again, I totally get your frustration. Playing against squads that surpasses your squad's skill level x10 sucks balls. But I'm not about to support neutering tactics.

As far as rotation are concerns, it's a complicated issue. While I would love to get "tiers" going to help balance things out and make it more fun for everyone, we won't really have the numbers to make that totally possible. If we were to do something like that right now, you'd have the same squads facing off against eachother and it'll get boring for those squads.

[UnfoldedFreedom]

Solution is to not have a match that last 15, so higher skilled teams can finish it fast instead of stating for 15 min.

[Sicarioano]

Solution is to not have a match that last 15, so higher skilled teams can finish it fast instead of stating for 15 min.

I kinda agree. Maybe we could have a lobby vote for limited score or limited time...

[THExSPIDERMAN]

We could start rating squads but that may hurt some feelings.

[UnfoldedFreedom]

Any ways isnt fc a war sim and last time i checked wars dont last untill the timer goes off , it ends when the team has completed their objective. This isnt sports people its WAR !

[Sicarioano]

We could start rating squads but that may hurt some feelings.


That and there isn't enough squads for a rating system to work effectively. Cause you'll end up having a 2 squad facing a 6 squad at some point.

[bl4yze]

Use a Hardlight Shield, Regen, Sprint, Holograms, Team Shots, etc to get out of spawn traps. I actually love playing against the best BLUE squads and scrimming VbD as it lets us, as a squad, figure out what we need to work on, and what our weaknesses are. There are plenty of ways to get out of spawn traps, and perhaps that's something that you as a team need to work on. It's not impossible for a squad to get better, even if it's composed of more casual players. Purposefully not showing up on battlenight because you don't want to improve and see what you need to work on isn't going to change anything. Sure FC is founded on Fun and a community based war sim, but that doesn't mean players that understand how the map and spawns work should be punished for having that knowledge.

Last war REDWATCH improved a shitload, and that wasn't just from new recruits. When I was in Victor, REDWATCH as a whole practiced and persevered through exactly what you described, and then went on to beat some of BLUEs best players during the Capital battle and in a few 4v4s (Last second flag run shoutout ;P).

[Coda]

I don't know about you but I think it is wrong of a squad leader to tell his members not to get on on a battle night for fear of loosing (your not even guaranteed of being matched up against a top squad). That leader should be spoken to.
THIS. I was horrified when I read leaders were telling members not to show up because they'll lose. It's honestly quite sad to know that that's happened :(

Also, I agree with pretty much everything Carp has said. His text is also pretty.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Also how could it be regulated?

"Guys, you're starting to kill us before we get a chance to pull back and effectively ruining our chances of winning. Could you possibly stop shooting us for just a second to let us get a better position to kill you?"

[UnfoldedFreedom]

Also how could it be regulated?

"Guys, you're starting to kill us before we get a chance to pull back and effectively ruining our chances of winning. Could you possibly stop shooting us for just a second to let us get a better position to kill you?"

[KazuhLLL]

THIS. I was horrified when I read leaders were telling members not to show up because they'll lose. It's honestly quite sad to know that that's happened :(

For the record, I've never heard of that happening in BLUE. Maybe I missed the memo, though.

[westraptor]

You are right and wrong. Should we be punished for being paired with a team that is way better than us? (VBD) I mean honestly, every time I play Vs. them I lose all faith in winning.

[westraptor]

It's not the fact that I'm losing. It's the fact that if you are playing with people who are good at spawn killing you will be miserable for 15 minutes.

Then again that brings in the psychological part of this, it decreases morale. With morale depleted, their combat effectiveness is depleted. So maybe it should be allowed. I don't know but I don't like it.

[UnfoldedFreedom]

You are right and wrong. Should we be punished for being paired with a team that is way better than us? (VBD) I mean honestly, every time I play Vs. them I lose all faith in winning.

Well thats what vbd kinda does , i rather end the match asap but we have to play 15 min.

[Nicholas Sapien]

THIS. I was horrified when I read leaders were telling members not to show up because they'll lose. It's honestly quite sad to know that that's happened :(

Also, I agree with pretty much everything Carp has said. His text is also pretty.

I don't really think that has happened to anyone in BLUE, just the very idea of it is wrong.

[Prof Blastoise]

What is with people being mad about getting spawn killed lately? It is actually easy to get out of one. And the fact that we have skilled squads will actually improve the skill of other players. Just because we have skilled players does not mean we should punish them for a game they are good at and enjoy to play.

[Harry]

Spawn trapping/killing influences the importance of practicing IMO

No one should ever be told "don't to show up" just because of their skill level. Besides, that's their own decision that they can make.

[Coda]

I've heard of people not getting on because they were a weaker squad and their "leaders" told them not to show.



I don't really think that has happened to anyone in BLUE, just the very idea of it is wrong.
Looks like it is happening, according to Sicarioano.

[Sicarioano]

Looks like it is happening, according to Sicarioano.

I was talking about what I've heard in REDD...

We promote everyone to show up in BLUE every Sunday, no matter who it is.

[Carpe Vexillum]

I was talking about what I've heard in REDD...

We promote everyone to show up in BLUE every Sunday, no matter who it is.

You heard wrong. =p (or maybe right but that is not what REDD does.)

[Sicarioano]

You heard wrong. =p (or maybe right but that is not what REDD does.)

Well I know that it has happened in previous wars. And the fact is about spawn killing, not a little comment I made earlier. Topics in FC get off subject to quickly. Regardless, spawn killing needs to be reduced as much as possible.

[Carpe Vexillum]

Regardless, spawn killing needs to be reduced as much as possible.

How? Give us something to work off of. What do you think should be done about it?

[Sicarioano]

How? Give us something to work off of. What do you think should be done about it?


I already posted what I thought should be done.

[Nicholas Sapien]

lol we should ban everyone that has a 1.0 and higher

[Sicarioano]

lol we should ban everyone that has a 1.0 and higher

I agree..well shit. Guess I'm out of here.

[Carpe Vexillum]

As bad as it is, that got me thinking of a way to help those in dismay. Why not tiers? Like lightweight and heavy weight, and separate the battles that way?

[Sicarioano]

As bad as it is, that got me thinking of a way to help those in dismay. Why not tiers? Like lightweight and heavy weight, and separate the battles that way?

But then like 4 different squads in Heavy Weight will have to continuesly face each other over and over and OVER

[Carpe Vexillum]

Then no one can be happy. lol xD We shall see what others think.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

[Zeta Crossfire]

YES VDB is a force to be feared but Blue has some pretty damn good squads as well. Redwatch might have a bunch of casual players but they still show up to practices, work better as a team, and we still give it all our all when fighting against Sparta or Legacy. We don't always win but we have in the past and that's great. Just because your casual doesn't mean you automatically lost. We all fight tough squads but in any game be that Halo, soccer, Call of Duty, Chess, there is always going to be someone better then you. If you play any competitive game you are going to have to play someone who can beat you and that's just the breaks.

All you need to do is try and practice together, play as a team, and take your lumps when they come up. No one you play against in this community means and auto lose, heck even VDB loses some time. Don't count yourself out until the clock hits 0.

[Toast78901]

We don't have enough squads for a tiering system to work that will be in any way enjoyable. Spawn trapping (which is what I think this is really about, not spawn killing per se) is a tactic you will see and one that isn't going to be stopped. It's part of a shooter like Halo.

Now look, I get the frustration coming from those who are expressing it, I really do. But unless someone can propose a solution that doesn't throw the importance and rewards of strategy, communication, and map control out the window, there is nothing to be done about it. If anyone does however have a solution that meets those requirements, ie. makes everyone happy, please, by all means state it, and I will personally put you on the cookie mailing list for being a genius.

However, we, as a community, are faced with a bit of a problem here. Those who seem to agree with me keep stating "get better, this just makes practice more important" etc. What I don't think they get is, People Don't Want To. People already devote a lot of time to this community, and the squads that are on the lower tiers are here to just have fun. Have them drill Halo all day err day? Not their idea of a good time. Telling them to just lolgetbetter isn't exatly a solution if they just want to play casually.

On the other hand, those who feel like they are being shit on need to, as Carpe said, take the losses gracefully and with understanding. Yes, there are problems with rotation systems. But those can only be fixed via tiering, which we cannot do as of yet. The solution? Carry on as normal. However, hopefully we can do so with a bit more understanding. Those who are good and find joy in strategy and being tactical, stop telling those lower to just get better, practice more and become better Halo players. It isn't there idea of fun. But those who are getting the shit end of the stick? Guys, come on. It sounds like you want to punish good squads. If you just want to play casually, then play casually. Turn the loss into something fun. When Plat and I or Purple and I are in matches we know for sure we cannot come back in? Time to turn up the trolololol meter and have some fucking fun. Grab a mongoose and a plasma pistol and let the lolz begin. But don't get mad at them or punish them for devoting themselves to getting better.

Also, it has been suggested that there be objective limits, not time limits placed on games. This I am torn on. Maybe include it as a option? Like, if two squads go against each other and mutually decide to have an objective limit to get things over quickly (this will most likely happen when a low tier goes against a high tier), then so be it. But have the option of a full 15 minutes available. That time limit has given me some of my favorite matches in Halo, and if they were objective instead of time based, they would not have been as close and fun as they were. So yeah, I propose objective completion matches as an option for battles. It can get shit games over quicker to at least preserve the moral of the weaker squad, while still allow for wins through means of skill.

[ThatAwkardGuy]

YES VDB is a force to be feared but Blue has some pretty damn good squads as well. Redwatch might have a bunch of casual players but they still show up to practices, work better as a team, and we still give it all our all when fighting against Sparta or Legacy. We don't always win but we have in the past and that's great. Just because your casual doesn't mean you automatically lost. We all fight tough squads but in any game be that Halo, soccer, Call of Duty, Chess, there is always going to be someone better then you. If you play any competitive game you are going to have to play someone who can beat you and that's just the breaks.

All you need to do is try and practice together, play as a team, and take your lumps when they come up. No one you play against in this community means and auto lose, heck even VDB loses some time. Don't count yourself out until the clock hits 0.

Well said. 100% agree. Some of the top squads are far from "pro" status.

[Anarchy]

As bad as it is, that got me thinking of a way to help those in dismay. Why not tiers? Like lightweight and heavy weight, and separate the battles that way?

Yay, make Sparta and Legacy with their 5% win percentage on VbD play them every time instead.


Tiers don't work, it ruins incentive and just sacred cows some squads while throwing others in the fire.



Fact is everyone has to play these incredibly OP squads one way or another. Squads practice so they can get better, develop as a team, and in the end win more. Raptor and Urias are in LR, which if you look at the statbook, have played VbD and loveable velocity 4 times last Sunday. The flaw in our rotation has been seen with them.

While it is in everyone's best interest to make that change, there is a very large difference between Sparta/Legacy and VbD/Velocity. Very large. BLUE's two best units are homegrown teams, whereas Velocity is made up of a bunch of people who top halotracker and are in a btb.net team and half of VbD used to be a gamebattles team, while the rest may as well be in the same boat. Comparing LR playing VbD to Redwatch playing Sparta is not a fair or accurate comparison. Raptor is mostly bringing this up just because his team has been getting the short end of the stick playing those two "god squads", and quite frankly it wears on all of us.


But we can't escape having BLUE units play those superior teams. Can't remove it altogether. At first it was just everyone having to play VbD once a battle night, but with Velocity, now everyone has to play half the top 10 people on halotracker once per battle night. And it wears on everyone, but it's ultimately something we have to accept.

[bazongaman502]

But we can't escape having BLUE units play those superior teams. Can't remove it altogether. At first it was just everyone having to play VbD once a battle night, but with Velocity, now everyone has to play half the top 10 people on halotracker once per battle night. And it wears on everyone

Thats a big reason for us to stop recruiting those kinds of people. This community is becoming a BTB MLG group rather then that fun Sunday night fights I joined 2 years ago.

Its also sad to see peoples mindsets changing over that time from "Little compitition but alot of fun" to "Alot of compitition to almsot no fun" (for some members).

I remember back when I first joined FC and all the Vets kept saying "The past was better"... you know what? I now fully agree with them. Sure they are talking about more years in the past, but the progress we are making is shaping this community in a different way then what was intended originaly.

Stupid rant from me? Possibly

[riphelix]

This community is becoming a BTB MLG group rather then that fun Sunday night fights


While most of you will disagree with this...I stand behind it. I joined FC in March and even then the community/battles weren't like they seem to be today.. While I love this community and everything we do, I just don't seem to get the same joy out of fighting that I got when I joined. Maybe I'm just being a bitch about it, whatever. There's nothing anyone can do about the issue and that's fine, it's part of the game. Just saying it gets a little ridiculous after a continuous while.

I feel like all of this has come out wrong.

[JamiDJ]

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Remember what this community is about.

Yes, the community is about fun, and we always strive to ensure each member is enjoying their time with us in FC. However, our goal is to help players improve. Whether or not it be, skill, communication, team-building, ect;

While no one likes to lose, we must remember that all the while we're learning what makes us better, and should always still be enjoying ourselves as well.

To learn to be the best, sometimes you have to fight the best.

[KillerGUNNY132]

What is with people being mad about getting spawn killed lately? It is actually easy to get out of one. And the fact that we have skilled squads will actually improve the skill of other players. Just because we have skilled players does not mean we should punish them for a game they are good at and enjoy to play.

This x10. I am 1000 percent against anything that punishes good squads for being good or neutering tactics.



As bad as it is, that got me thinking of a way to help those in dismay. Why not tiers? Like lightweight and heavy weight, and separate the battles that way?

Naw. We don't have enough members to make tiers truly work.



However, we, as a community, are faced with a bit of a problem here. Those who seem to agree with me keep stating "get better, this just makes practice more important" etc. What I don't think they get is, People Don't Want To. People already devote a lot of time to this community, and the squads that are on the lower tiers are here to just have fun. Have them drill Halo all day err day? Not their idea of a good time. Telling them to just lolgetbetter isn't exatly a solution if they just want to play casually.

Exactly. We do have different kinds of players in this community.

But the thing is, if other squads don't put in the work to get better, then they would have to expect to lose to more competitive squads that do put in the work. It's just how it is. If you really, really don't like losing to these squads, then get better. If you don't want to put in the work to get better, don't get all pissy if you get demolished by squads that do.

[Blackhawk570]

If anything we could invoke a mercy rule in which the losing team is losing by a certain amount of points, one of the losing members is allowed to switch to the enemy team and forfeit. Other than this there is really no way to control this.

[bazongaman502]

I have no problems in losing. Alot of my losses have been rather close games when its a rather even group facing each other. But wh you have a "so-so" group facing one of the hardest groups 4 times on one weekend, 3 times the previous week and many other times before that, you shouldn't be shocked in any way to see people upset by it.

And telling people to "Suck it Up" doesn't help either. "To be the best, you must face the best". Not exactly true either, but it is close to being correct.

Seeing many people playing better then you actually brings more people down than up. Most people will look at it as "I'll never be as good as them, so why try?" or constant complaints about how a not so skilled person is forced to face the best every single day. They wont improve of that. You improve by facing people who are barely above you, not who are 10x your skill.

I have no problems with losing. I actually enjoying losing sometimes compared to winning (I always try to win, never think for a second that I intentionally lose).

I tend to laugh and have more fun when a game is decided by a point or so, but when I face people who are beyond my skill, all I want to do is quit because I know I can not beat them. Most of the best players here in FC play Halo all the time. I personally hate Halo 4, possibly 2nd worst Halo game in my opinion (Halo 3 as the worst, inb4flamewar), so I can't stand playing halo for longer than an hour or so before I'll start not caring anymore. Im not gonna try to force myself to get better at a game that I don't like. Is it my fault that im not improving? Yes, will not deny it. But its not like im the only person that ses the game and that issue in the same way.

I don't like where this community is really heading (im not gonna stop it because change is good to have), but im not gonna quit and leave because of this. This is a great community and I love it here and plan to be here for a long period of time (even if im not fighting in the wars), but I do have to agree with the vets 2 years ago when they said "This community is changing and we don't like it" (we as in the vets at the time).

I enjoy my play style. And im not gonna change it because im not as good as the rest.

[JamiDJ]

If anything we could invoke a mercy rule in which the losing team is losing by a certain amount of points, one of the losing members is allowed to switch to the enemy team and forfeit. Other than this there is really no way to control this.

This?

[Yehsus]

Mercy rule would be the best solution to this. It would have to be at least 7 minutes in, and at the discretion of the squad leader.

Stil, I would personally lose a lot of respect to anyone in blue that does this, if that means anything to them. You should always play hard and give it your best until the end of regulation. That's the competitive spirit. And yes, this community was built upon the foundation of competition. It's about one army beating the other. No matter how its structured,, how respectful, and how organized this community is, That's still competition.

[Prof Blastoise]

Yay, make Sparta and Legacy with their 5% win percentage on VbD play them every time instead.


Tiers don't work, it ruins incentive and just sacred cows some squads while throwing others in the fire.



Fact is everyone has to play these incredibly OP squads one way or another. Squads practice so they can get better, develop as a team, and in the end win more. Raptor and Urias are in LR, which if you look at the statbook, have played VbD and loveable velocity 4 times last Sunday. The flaw in our rotation has been seen with them.

While it is in everyone's best interest to make that change, there is a very large difference between Sparta/Legacy and VbD/Velocity. Very large. BLUE's two best units are homegrown teams, whereas Velocity is made up of a bunch of people who top halotracker and are in a btb.net team and half of VbD used to be a gamebattles team, while the rest may as well be in the same boat. Comparing LR playing VbD to Redwatch playing Sparta is not a fair or accurate comparison. Raptor is mostly bringing this up just because his team has been getting the short end of the stick playing those two "god squads", and quite frankly it wears on all of us.


But we can't escape having BLUE units play those superior teams. Can't remove it altogether. At first it was just everyone having to play VbD once a battle night, but with Velocity, now everyone has to play half the top 10 people on halotracker once per battle night. And it wears on everyone, but it's ultimately something we have to accept.

We made up the Gamebattles team while in VbD together. If you don't know the facts, then don't make up stuff. Also when I was in BLUE you and Sicariano wanted me to make a powerful squad with MLG players. And you also made a Gamebattles team >.< . And just because a squad is good just means the other people should get better, or just deal with it. There is no reason for people to complain about a squad being powerful. Is FC not based on trying to have your army win a war? Sure, we all want to have fun and I do every night. If someone gets sore about loosing then why do they play video games? This whole argument on this thread makes no sense at all.

[JEWmanji]

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.....

This is absurd spawn camping happens and it sucks but theres no way to fix that you can't punish a team for being better and there's no way to fix what squads play what squads at the moment if you don't like losing work with your squad to build better tactics and over all team play and make the best of each game... ya getting slayed sucks and it does run you down but thats no reason to stop playing. I personally don't care I'm not the best halo player but if i lose a game i'll just play another and another till i will and playing people who are better than you helps your skills grow if you only play people worse than you or have people who are better than you take it easy on you you'll never learn or improve. I don't know about anyone else but win or lose i'm just here to play with people who want some fun competitive play and to play with people who share a love for the halo games

[McL00V]

so you may get pooped on sometimes during battle nights..at least youre making friends and can play with them outside of battle nights. 6 days of fun trumps 2 hours on a sunday of (sometimes) not doing well. and as you play with your squad outside of FC you'll get better together without even really trying to. it's just natural. thats how I feel, anyway.

[MedeDust]

You're all wrong. Yes this community is based on fun but you guys seem to misinterpret fun for winning. Seems like the only time you have fun is when you're winning or when you're close to winning. It should be fun simply because it's game.

[Carpe Vexillum]

You're all wrong. Yes this community is based on fun but you guys seem to misinterpret fun for winning. Seems like the only time you have fun is when you're winning or when you're close to winning. It should be fun simply because it's game.

[UnfoldedFreedom]

You're all wrong. Yes this community is based on fun but you guys seem to misinterpret fun for winning. Seems like the only time you have fun is when you're winning or when you're close to winning. It should be fun simply because it's game.

Then why have two sides that spend months trying to win a war. Its War sim , why not make this a custom game community where people play fun customs if its fun.

[MedeDust]

Then why have two sides that spend months trying to win a war. Its War sim , why not make this a custom game community where people play fun customs if its fun.

That's my point, that's why I don't understand why there is even a complaint, everybody here is in it to win, they only deny it whenn winning seems impossible.

[UnfoldedFreedom]

Yay, make Sparta and Legacy with their 5% win percentage on VbD play them every time instead.


Tiers don't work, it ruins incentive and just sacred cows some squads while throwing others in the fire.



Fact is everyone has to play these incredibly OP squads one way or another. Squads practice so they can get better, develop as a team, and in the end win more. Raptor and Urias are in LR, which if you look at the statbook, have played VbD and loveable velocity 4 times last Sunday. The flaw in our rotation has been seen with them.

While it is in everyone's best interest to make that change, there is a very large difference between Sparta/Legacy and VbD/Velocity. Very large. BLUE's two best units are homegrown teams, whereas Velocity is made up of a bunch of people who top halotracker and are in a btb.net team and half of VbD used to be a gamebattles team, while the rest may as well be in the same boat. Comparing LR playing VbD to Redwatch playing Sparta is not a fair or accurate comparison. Raptor is mostly bringing this up just because his team has been getting the short end of the stick playing those two "god squads", and quite frankly it wears on all of us.


But we can't escape having BLUE units play those superior teams. Can't remove it altogether. At first it was just everyone having to play VbD once a battle night, but with Velocity, now everyone has to play half the top 10 people on halotracker once per battle night. And it wears on everyone, but it's ultimately something we have to accept.

Don't worry baby cakes ! ill save you next war.

[bl4yze]

You're all wrong. Yes this community is based on fun but you guys seem to misinterpret fun for winning. Seems like the only time you have fun is when you're winning or when you're close to winning. It should be fun simply because it's game.

I have fun when I win, I have fun when I lose, I have more fun when I win though.

[UnfoldedFreedom]

That's my point, that's why I don't understand why there is even a complaint, everybody here is in it to win, they only deny it whenn winning seems impossible.

I dont think you quite understand what they mean when they lose to vbd its quite an ugly scene and im on the otherside of the fence.

[MedeDust]

I dont think you quite understand what they mean when they lose to vbd its quite an ugly scene and im on the otherside of the fence.

Lay off the ego waffles.

My serious response:

Then this isn't a spawn issue anymore now is it? Or was it ever?

[UnfoldedFreedom]

Lay off the ego waffles.

My serious response:

Then this isn't a spawn issue anymore now is it? Or was it ever?

Some maps like lockout is terrible because i remember we force one guy to keep spawning elbow over and over and over but his teammates didnt help because they were hiding in green.

[Anarchy]

We made up the Gamebattles team while in VbD together. If you don't know the facts, then don't make up stuff. Also when I was in BLUE you and Sicariano wanted me to make a powerful squad with MLG players. And you also made a Gamebattles team >.< . And just because a squad is good just means the other people should get better, or just deal with it. There is no reason for people to complain about a squad being powerful. Is FC not based on trying to have your army win a war? Sure, we all want to have fun and I do every night. If someone gets sore about loosing then why do they play video games? This whole argument on this thread makes no sense at all.

I know the facts. Knocking Velocity, not VbD.

As for our team, it was a joke, and we didn't all make an FC squad on the same grouping. Having VbD AND Velocity over on REDD, however, makes life just miserable. To such a large extent that isn't that we need, for the community itself. And a lot of that plays off their attitude.

[KillerGUNNY132]

That's my point, that's why I don't understand why there is even a complaint, everybody here is in it to win, they only deny it whenn winning seems impossible.

This.

It's a war sim where two Armies face off against eachother for control of a warmap.

Damn right it's going to be competitive.

[Prof Blastoise]

This.

It's a war sim where two Armies face off against eachother for control of a warmap.

Damn right it's going to be competitive.

[bazongaman502]

This.

It's a war sim where two Armies face off against eachother for control of a warmap.

Damn right it's going to be competitive.

You are 100% correct, however its slowly just becoming winning. And I know this community was not built to be only about winning. Thats the only problem.

Competition is everywhere, you can't ever avoid it.

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

If anything we could invoke a mercy rule in which the losing team is losing by a certain amount of points, one of the losing members is allowed to switch to the enemy team and forfeit. Other than this there is really no way to control this.

I could have sworn we made one a few wars ago but we never implemented it...

- - - Updated - - -


You are 100% correct, however its slowly just becoming winning. And I know this community was not built to be only about winning. Thats the only problem.

Competition is everywhere, you can't ever avoid it.

It is possible to have a competitive/FUN game. It happens all the time in sports, when two friendly teams play each other. Each team wants to win but they will continue to treat each other with kindness and respect after the game is over.

This IS a competitive community, however we teach the member to respect one another and have fun playing a game we ALL love.

[Deathhawk]

I could have sworn we made one a few wars ago but we never implemented it...

This is what you were thinking of? (http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread.php?6978-Mercy-Rules)

[JamiDJ]

This is what you were thinking of? (http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread.php?6978-Mercy-Rules)

Exactly.

[Deathhawk]

After four pages of positive response, the last post was Myth saying the WC was working on it.


...


Paging Dr. Myth!

[Kulaantoorkiin]

Spawn killing is annoying, but excessive spawn killing? That's ban worthy, if vote bans are allowed that is.

[Yehsus]

Lol if we're going to go to the extreme and say that spawn killing is a suspendable offense, then so should be sucking at halo. Therefore this community always consist of middle of the pack players. What a boring utopia.



Lets ratify the mercy rule already.

[Blackhawk570]

I could have sworn we made one a few wars ago but we never implemented it...

Seems what we always do.

[bazongaman502]

Seems what we always do.

[Prof Blastoise]

Spawn killing is annoying, but excessive spawn killing? That's ban worthy, if vote bans are allowed that is.

.........no

[silversleek]

I could have sworn we made one a few wars ago but we never implemented it...



who would use it? let's say a weaker team is going up against a strong team, if they're down by 30 kills five minutes into the game, it's far better to just have everyone go afk and make a sandwhich, that way the good team would be stalled from entering more games. And don't say it wouldn't happen, FC is far more competitive now than it should be.

[KillerGUNNY132]

Spawn killing is annoying, but excessive spawn killing? That's ban worthy, if vote bans are allowed that is.

Seriously? C'mon now. Stop.


who would use it? let's say a weaker team is going up against a strong team, if they're down by 30 kills five minutes into the game, it's far better to just have everyone go afk and make a sandwhich, that way the good team would be stalled from entering more games. And don't say it wouldn't happen, FC is far more competitive now than it should be.


I was thinking the same thing. It would turn into a tactical thing. I think it's much more honorable to finish games, anyway. Even if you are getting blown out. I personally think we should just keep it the way it is. Maybe shorten the games to 12 minutes or something, but that's as far as I'd go.

[KazuhLLL]

Maybe shorten the games to 12 minutes or something, but that's as far as I'd go.

Hm. That's a possibility I suppose.

[bl4yze]

who would use it? let's say a weaker team is going up against a strong team, if they're down by 30 kills five minutes into the game, it's far better to just have everyone go afk and make a sandwhich, that way the good team would be stalled from entering more games. And don't say it wouldn't happen, FC is far more competitive now than it should be.


It wouldn't prevent them from playing more games than they would have if you just threw in the towel. That's not how the games are set up. I don't see what people are so opposed to playing better players. I love playing better players. Maybe because a lot of people prefer to just run and gun, and realize they get punished for it playing against more experienced players, then respawn and repeat.

[Anarchy]

Back to the mercy rule are we? The last thing I want is to wait 20 minutes to get in a game, then have someone be allowed to quit 1/3rd of the way through it. Then have to wait the difference in how long the game was and how long it was supposed to be extra until the next game. Hell, if you can give up halfway through, why care the first half anyway if you're favored to lose.


What the hell is a mercy rule going to do about anything. It's not in the war-sim way.



Yes FC is going to have some form of competition. We will always try to win, but respect and fun is first, the competition is second, hell probably lower than that. It's when we bring in squads like Velocity that gets tampered with. I don't like trying to talk to them, then being trolled about how someone in it's btb.net team would supposedly destroy me like I give a damn.


There are a lot of different levels of competition.

The guys playing RP in custom games because they don't actually like First Person Shooters? That's not us.
The btb.net teams talking trash to one another before they have to go back to underclassmen highschool the next morning? That's not us.
The group of friends who like going into matchmaking and actually giving an effort to win? That IS us.
The person who wants to join a group all about halo and playing together? That IS us.

No mercy rule will change what we are or any of that being tampered with on the various battle nights we get a random clan/team/group running through everyone like thin paper. And no tier system throwing those of us who are in "Above-Average" squads into the fire is going to solve the issue of people getting rick rolled either.


What it boils down to is letting the right people into this community. We have no significant imbalance we can't fix ourselves internally or that is dying to be switched. There should be no incentive on either side to let in anyone whose here to just beat up on those less competitive than them in order to get a hard on for themselves, and we need to make an actual effort to keep those type of people /out/. Period. It doesn't promote anything but hardship for everyone, it only wins someone a war.


Want to fix the issue of being excessively spawn killed? First realize it's not someone being cheap, it's just you getting rick rolled. Secondly, keep the assholes who just come here to talk trash and put a notch in their smug win column out. A fucking conscious effort to keep them out, because they don't belong, their place is btb.net or gamebattles, and there's nothing wrong with them enjoying that type of a community, just don't let them plague ours which is meant for a different purpose. But definitely don't try to punish any team that is decent by making them play the uberunits over and over, and definitely don't punish the team who practices enough to bring some W's in the right way by limiting their time on the playing field.

[VerbotenDonkey]

The guys playing RP in custom games because they don't actually like First Person Shooters? That's not us.

I resent that, that is us too. :(

[Harry]

Pretty much wut Anarchy sed

[Anarchy]

I resent that, that is us too. :(

Well, partially. But on Battle nights, that's not what the wars are about.

VbD could come along and say that the competitive side is them. But on battle nights, it isn't.

But the group that comes along, performs better than VbD, yet hasn't communicated with much of anyone in FC at all, and don't come on our forums to talk to us? That's a red flag.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Pretty much wut Anarchy sed

yup, man tells the truth

[KillerGUNNY132]

Back to the mercy rule are we? The last thing I want is to wait 20 minutes to get in a game, then have someone be allowed to quit 1/3rd of the way through it. Then have to wait the difference in how long the game was and how long it was supposed to be extra until the next game. Hell, if you can give up halfway through, why care the first half anyway if you're favored to lose.


What the hell is a mercy rule going to do about anything. It's not in the war-sim way.



Yes FC is going to have some form of competition. We will always try to win, but respect and fun is first, the competition is second, hell probably lower than that. It's when we bring in squads like Velocity that gets tampered with. I don't like trying to talk to them, then being trolled about how someone in it's btb.net team would supposedly destroy me like I give a damn.


There are a lot of different levels of competition.

The guys playing RP in custom games because they don't actually like First Person Shooters? That's not us.
The btb.net teams talking trash to one another before they have to go back to underclassmen highschool the next morning? That's not us.
The group of friends who like going into matchmaking and actually giving an effort to win? That IS us.
The person who wants to join a group all about halo and playing together? That IS us.

No mercy rule will change what we are or any of that being tampered with on the various battle nights we get a random clan/team/group running through everyone like thin paper. And no tier system throwing those of us who are in "Above-Average" squads into the fire is going to solve the issue of people getting rick rolled either.


What it boils down to is letting the right people into this community. We have no significant imbalance we can't fix ourselves internally or that is dying to be switched. There should be no incentive on either side to let in anyone whose here to just beat up on those less competitive than them in order to get a hard on for themselves, and we need to make an actual effort to keep those type of people /out/. Period. It doesn't promote anything but hardship for everyone, it only wins someone a war.


Want to fix the issue of being excessively spawn killed? First realize it's not someone being cheap, it's just you getting rick rolled. Secondly, keep the assholes who just come here to talk trash and put a notch in their smug win column out. A fucking conscious effort to keep them out, because they don't belong, their place is btb.net or gamebattles, and there's nothing wrong with them enjoying that type of a community, just don't let them plague ours which is meant for a different purpose. But definitely don't try to punish any team that is decent by making them play the uberunits over and over, and definitely don't punish the team who practices enough to bring some W's in the right way by limiting their time on the playing field.

I agree with everyone of your points except for one, Anarchy.

Limiting who can and can't join.

We should have an open door policy to anyone of any skill level to join this community. BUT we have to make sure they know what we are about. Fun and respect is what this community is about. Make sure these super competitive guys know that this is not a place for them to polish their egos or talk trash to "bad kids". This is a place to have fun every Sunday and play with other members of this community.

If guys aren't respecting their opponents or anyone else in this community, they get the boot. The key is making it clear to them that this isn't gamebattles and you best have some fucking integrity around here, or your stay is going to be very, very short.

[Anarchy]

I'm not asking we limit who can join based on competition. But it's obvious who is and is not good for this community.

[Nicholas Sapien]

I agree with everyone of your points except for one, Anarchy.

Limiting who can and can't join.

We should have an open door policy to anyone of any skill level to join this community. BUT we have to make sure they know what we are about. Fun and respect is what this community is about. Make sure these super competitive guys know that this is not a place for them to polish their egos or talk trash to "bad kids". This is a place to have fun every Sunday and play with other members of this community.

If guys aren't respecting their opponents or anyone else in this community, they get the boot. The key is making it clear to them that this isn't gamebattles and you best have some fucking integrity around here, or your stay is going to be very, very short.

I don't think anarchy was pointing out their skill, but rather their behavior

[Prof Blastoise]

I'm not asking we limit who can join based on competition. But it's obvious who is and is not good for this community.

They talked trash to us and called us bad after we beat them, these BTB kids need to go. We tried to show them respect but all they do is call us bad after they loose. It is annoying and they have no respect. I know some people don't like VbD because we like to play competetively, but at least we show respect.
https://app.halowaypoint.com/en-us/Halo4/prof%20blastoise/home/match-6607989e2061d15b

[KillerGUNNY132]

I don't think anarchy was pointing out their skill, but rather their behavior

I understand that.

If their behavior is the issue, talk to them. If they don't get it, they're out.

[Nicholas Sapien]

They talked trash to us and called us bad after we beat them, these BTB kids need to go.

did they?

[Anarchy]

did they?

I'm sure they did, they trash talked me and all I said was I look forward to playing them this week.

[Prof Blastoise]

They talk a lot of trash. I am normally respectful to people in FC that I play against and anyone can tell you that. But these kids came in and started talking trash right from the beginning.
Also they need to go through a bootcamp again. A real bootcamp. They need to learn the rules or something. I don't think they understand that even not on battle nights, you need to be respectful. Or some higher up needs to talk to them.

[riphelix]

it's obvious who is and is not good for this community.
That.

Also, Velocity does talk alot of trash. They started being ignorant after our match last week but I didn't stick around to hear what they had to say because I didn't want to get banned for flippin shit.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Yeah, if they're having issues like that someone needs to go over the rules with them.

[bl4yze]

lol, whoever recruited them should be on recruitment probation

[Sicarioano]

lol, whoever recruited them should be on recruitment probation

I wonder who that could be......

[Harry]

I don't like pointing my fingers unless they are in the "shocker" position.

:3

[RetRdidMunkie]

lol, whoever recruited them should be on recruitment probation

You mean whoever gave a bootcamp should have drilled the word respect so deep into their skulls they forgot every other word they've ever learned.

[bl4yze]

I don't like pointing my fingers unless they are in the "shocker" position.

http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/images/smilies/icon_shocker.gif

[Harry]

http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/images/smilies/icon_shocker.gif

Believe it or not, putting "2inDaPINK &1inDaSTINK" as my motto on my HarryTheChin XBL account got it banned for two weeks hence the "Code of Conduct"s shown on HTC's motto, location, etc.. It won't get lifted until 6/9/13.

Apparently the Xbox Live Enforcement deemed it inappropriate.

Moral of the story, "the shocker" is srs biz.

P.S. for those who know the alternate account I'm using plz try not to spill the beans. kthx. :3

[bl4yze]

I won't let anything ​slip

[Harry]

Genius. Pure genius.

ANYWAYS, back to the topic of spawn killing/trapping...

[Guzzie]

in before aftershockerr gets banned lol

[riphelix]

Believe it or not, putting "2inDaPINK &1inDaSTINK" as my motto on my HarryTheChin XBL account got it banned for two weeks hence the "Code of Conduct"s shown on HTC's motto, location, etc.. It won't get lifted until 6/9/13.

A couple months ago I got banned for a week for having boobies as my motto and 'ima tongue punch your fart box' in my bio. Even tho they were both there for 2 years prior..

[Harry]

A couple months ago I got banned for a week for having boobies as my motto and 'ima tongue punch your fart box' in my bio. Even tho they were both there for 2 years prior..

:/

I think it is because after so many reports/bad player reviews, filed complaints, etc. the XBL Enforcement team finally decides to take a look at the profile. If they see even the slightest possibility of "inappropriateness" they will get on that in a heartbeat.

[MedeDust]

Nice story.

Anyways, the War council is discussing this already.

Closed.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c287/Maxdoggy/FCclosetopicFC.jpg