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View Full Version : RE: Proposal For The Next War.



WM Feedback
07-15-2013, 06:52 PM
My assessment of current problems:
1) The vast majority of games are won by a small minority of squads. This is causing frustration for a large number of FC members in both armies.

2) The current rotation system cannot feasibly produce balanced matches without breaking up and distributing teams or constantly forcing repeat matchups.

3) The rigid structure of FC gametypes only appeals to a small portion of Halo players, and is too casual for the competitive and too competitive for the casual.

Overview of solution: Separation of casual and competitive gameplay

Just as an actual war is fought on a variety of fronts and in a variety of ways, there should be diversity in official FC gameplay. The current practice of auxiliary battles is an underutilized resource that could be used to highlight the contributions of more members, and solve the natural tension between casual and competitive players.

-Either in place of or in addition to the current Vcash system. FC squads can participate in online MM or customs games in any gametype of their choosing and accumulate points. These points can be used to purchase various battle map elements that will drastically affect weekly auxiliary battles.

-The current battle night rotation used in primary battles would be replaced with a more competitive challenge system. On battle night, each squad of an attacking army will issue challenges to the defenders. The defenders will field teams specifically chosen to answer these challenges in a best of 3 series.


Detailed breakdown: Auxiliary battles (Casual emphasis).
-At any point during the week (Sunday included), FC squads can join up, and go into MM to earn points for their army.

-Once a squad is together, they will submit a “start of gameplay” notice. This will include their current roster and playlist.

-That squad will then proceed to play 3 consecutive games in matchmaking, and submit the results of these games for points.

-All playlists are weighted equally. However, MM FFA playlists are not eligible. (I don’t want us to troll the general Halo population)

-Each individual is allowed to participate in 9 official games per week.

-Any falsification of game results will result in a loss of all the army’s points for that week. (Or something similarly harsh. Just don’t do it!)

-In addition to MM games, squads can host open-invitation custom games (posted in the forum or spread by word of mouth) of any type to earn points. These can include FFA/flood, 1v1, etc. gametypes, where the individual winner will earn points for their squad.

-Each game must include an equal number of REDD and BLUE members, and be submitted using the same format as MM games.

Why would this be awesome? It would allow everyone to contribute to their army while playing their favorite Halo gametypes in a balanced environment. I could invite another team to a game of Shields up, Spiderman could challenge everyone and their mother to a 1v1, SpartanBH could be a troll with stickies in gun game, Coag and Yehsus could practice their BR skills in an FFA, etc. and it would all matter on the Army vs Army scale.

Detailed breakdown: Primary battles (Competitive emphasis).

Disclaimer: This half is intended to be the competitive side. Rather than treating competition as taboo, it needs to be handled in respectful, healthy ways.

-Using the current attack plans structure, 2 maps per week will be selected as battlegrounds. However, rather than using a rotation, attacking teams will issue challenges to the defending army.

-Each week, attacking squad leaders will assemble fireteams that wish to compete, and their relevant CSR will be averaged (Infinity slayer for 4v4, BTIS for 6v6). The challenging rosters and their CSR averages will be submitted to the defending army, who will then assemble fireteams to accept the challenges. The CSR average of the team that accepts must be within 5 ranks. These teams will then play a best of 3 series consisting of 2 objective and one slayer gametype. If the attackers win a majority of their challenges, they win the map.

-If a challenge cannot be answered due to lack of matching players, it will not be counted as either a win or a loss. For this reason, it will be very important that army numbers, (and to some extent army skills) are balanced in between wars to ensure a high number of potential matches.


This format will allow players of all skill levels to enjoy balanced competitive games. By using a best of 3 format, tournament aspects such as mental toughness and positive attitudes will factor in as well. It will also allow for a bad game to be shrugged off and overcome.

Primary battles will be a venue for the best of the best to face off and earn some bragging rights (we all want to see the best of REDD and BLUE go at it), and for lower skilled players to improve their game. Respectful conduct must be strictly enforced in these games, and recruiting must be held to a high standard to keep egos in check.

Not everyone will want to participate in these games, and nobody will be forced to. However, the CSR averaging will provide balanced games for teams of all skill levels, and everyone will be invited to participate without fear of brutal mismatches.

Potential concerns:

-Will this take more work?
By using google forms submissions for auxiliary points, the only additional effort would be tallying points once per week and cashing them in for use on the war map, and occasionally investigating suspicious games.
The challenge system will require more work, but the potential benefits would be huge. I’m sure we could easily find members to help run such a system.

-Won’t this mean I’ll play largely the same people every week?
Playing the same people every week isn’t the problem; losing to the same people every week is what we all hate. There will naturally be a smaller subset of players that you will be matched against in this system, but if every week is full of nail-biter games, will that really be a problem? It will only add to the drive to practice during the week, and beat that team that edged you out by 1 kill last Sunday.

-We have always done “X” this way, we can’t change it.
If you argue against one of these ideas, tell me why in a logical and constructive way. If it’s because it challenges the status quo, I’ll find out where you live, and mail you a large crate of rabid, starving, raccoons.

Conclusion:
I don't actually expect that this will be implemented. I just want people to start thinking outside the box in terms of ways to make FC more fun for more people. I'm pretty new here, and I'm no expert on how things run. That said, I don't have to be a vet to see that there is room for improvement.

-Feedback

Andimion
07-15-2013, 07:03 PM
Extremely well thought out and yes, I took the time to read it all. I wish I had something to say, but just from my perspective these ideals over complicate FC and will make the community view this all as a job again. The battles are very simplistic for a reason.. =(

KillerGUNNY132
07-15-2013, 07:05 PM
Extremely well thought out and yes, I took the time to read it all. I wish I had something to say, but just from my perspective these ideals over complicate FC and will make the community view this all as a job again. The battles are very simplistic for a reason.. =(

I agree.

This really complicates things. FC is great because it has a good idea behind plus simplicity that everyone can get into it.

Yehsus
07-15-2013, 07:30 PM
tehehehe he double posted.

Mythonian
07-15-2013, 07:36 PM
First of all, thank you for putting thought into it and trying to come up with good ways to improve the community. It's members like you that will keep this place from falling apart.

There have always been flaws with how we do things, and while we always try our best to fix things, never will we be able to work out all the kinks. Complexity is a scary thing for some members, especially newer members trying to figure things out, so for a few years we've tried to add new, cool features without making things too overwhelming. In some ways we've failed, in others we've succeeded.

I like some of your ideas and concepts, and even if we don't implement them or only a few of them, they are definitely ways to solve some of our current problems. We just need to always be aware of how new problems would arise because of changes.

Getting the community more involved in their army and the war is always a good thing, and at the very least will be heavily considered. Not entirely sure about the battlenight suggestion, though.

WM Feedback
07-15-2013, 09:44 PM
I agree.

This really complicates things.

Does it though?
From the MM side: Play games, submit games, get vcash.
The only real change will be that the warmap gents will have big piles of Vcash to spend every week.

From the battle night side:
The number of total matches that need to be created will be cut down by 2/3. As a result, there will be far less time sitting around in a lobby waiting for your next match. The time saved right there will more than make up for the 20 minutes that will be needed to run CSR averages and assemble teams. It's a small price to pay in order to give every squad in FC a fun, balanced match every single week.

It's at least worth a trial run

silversleek
07-15-2013, 09:57 PM
Extremely well thought out and yes, I took the time to read it all. I wish I had something to say, but just from my perspective these ideals over complicate FC and will make the community view this all as a job again. The battles are very simplistic for a reason.. =(
this
i have a few concerns on how the auxillary battles might work.

A) it may just simply drive a wedge between the community, as the casual squads just decide, well, all we're doing is playing matchmaking, so why not just leave and skip the paperwork and continue doing this? outside FC, not even bothering with us anymore

or

b) Points are given for matchmaking, so some competitive squads join in as well to boost wins and help win both battles

the battles are a big part of FC

Mythonian
07-15-2013, 10:02 PM
From the battle night side:
The number of total matches that need to be created will be cut down by 2/3. As a result, there will be far less time sitting around in a lobby waiting for your next match. The time saved right there will more than make up for the 20 minutes that will be needed to run CSR averages and assemble teams. It's a small price to pay in order to give every squad in FC a fun, balanced match every single week.

It's at least worth a trial run

Some issues with it...


This assumes that both armies have the same number of squads. Not just overall, but also the exact same number that actually show up for the battles. If one army has an extra squad, those guys would need to sit out. Except instead of sitting out for 15-20 minutes, they'd be sitting out for 50-60 minutes (3 full games and some time between games).
This also assumes that each army has the same number of squads at each skill level. If one army has 3 high-skill squads while the other army only has 2, it means a lower-skilled squad would be forced to play 3 games in a row against that squad.


In an ideal situation where both armies are perfectly balanced, this would work out fine, but unfortunately issues like above would make specific squads have very little fun, which is exactly the same problem we're already trying to deal with.

KillerGUNNY132
07-15-2013, 10:04 PM
Does it though?
From the MM side: Play games, submit games, get vcash.
The only real change will be that the warmap gents will have big piles of Vcash to spend every week.

From the battle night side:
The number of total matches that need to be created will be cut down by 2/3. As a result, there will be far less time sitting around in a lobby waiting for your next match. The time saved right there will more than make up for the 20 minutes that will be needed to run CSR averages and assemble teams. It's a small price to pay in order to give every squad in FC a fun, balanced match every single week.

It's at least worth a trial run

I'm just not too crazy about making MM an official part of the experience. Everyone and their mothers play MM. FC is supposed to give you something else to play that's similar and enhances the Halo experience.

As for the BN side, I don't think anyone wants to face the same 2 teams over and over. There's not one person suggesting that we should drop the current BN structure. They just want a new rotation system that favors balance. I can understand that.

You know what is the defacto best time of FC and that truly produces the most fun? Battle Nights. It's always been the BN's. Everything you do during the week is to prepare for Sunday's. The current experience, albeit unbalanced at times, still works. I don't think we need to revamp everything because the core of FC is not the problem. It's just a piece of it.

During my 7 years in FC, there have always been unhappy people in FC. You truly can't please everyone. It happens. This is just one of those times where unhappiness seems to be at a high. It'll die down, it always does.

I will now await my package of angry, savage Raccoons now.

WM Feedback
07-15-2013, 10:26 PM
A) it may just simply drive a wedge between the community, as the casual squads just decide, well, all we're doing is playing matchmaking, so why not just leave and skip the paperwork and continue doing this? outside FC, not even bothering with us anymore

or

b) Points are given for matchmaking, so some competitive squads join in as well to boost wins and help win both battles

the battles are a big part of FC

The proposed system is no more susceptible to either of those issues than the current one. In fact, I think we're more at risk of losing members to vanilla matchmaking how we are now. In matchmaking you don't get put with 4 50's when you're playing as a group of 20's

Keeping out boosters is the critical responsibility of drill instructors in both cases

WM Feedback
07-15-2013, 10:31 PM
Some issues with it...


This assumes that both armies have the same number of squads. Not just overall, but also the exact same number that actually show up for the battles. If one army has an extra squad, those guys would need to sit out. Except instead of sitting out for 15-20 minutes, they'd be sitting out for 50-60 minutes (3 full games and some time between games).
This also assumes that each army has the same number of squads at each skill level. If one army has 3 high-skill squads while the other army only has 2, it means a lower-skilled squad would be forced to play 3 games in a row against that squad.



In an ideal situation where both armies are perfectly balanced, this would work out fine, but unfortunately issues like above would make specific squads have very little fun, which is exactly the same problem we're already trying to deal with.

-You're absolutely right in that this would be very dependent on army balance during peacetime. If a suitable match isn't found for a team, that match isn't played. Imbalances would immediately be identified, and would need to be addressed mid-war if they were recurrent.
-A big hole in the plan is definitely the lack of a fallback for the handful of individuals that don't get matched on Sundays. A few teams sitting out would also need to be weighed against the large number of balanced matches that would be found each week.

WM Feedback
07-15-2013, 10:40 PM
I'm just not too crazy about making MM an official part of the experience. Everyone and their mothers play MM. FC is supposed to give you something else to play that's similar and enhances the Halo experience.

As for the BN side, I don't think anyone wants to face the same 2 teams over and over. There's not one person suggesting that we should drop the current BN structure. They just want a new rotation system that favors balance. I can understand that.

You know what is the defacto best time of FC and that truly produces the most fun? Battle Nights. It's always been the BN's. Everything you do during the week is to prepare for Sunday's. The current experience, albeit unbalanced at times, still works. I don't think we need to revamp everything because the core of FC is not the problem. It's just a piece of it.

During my 7 years in FC, there have always been unhappy people in FC. You truly can't please everyone. It happens. This is just one of those times where unhappiness seems to be at a high. It'll die down, it always does.

I will now await my package of angry, savage Raccoons now.

We're all playing MM together anyways. why not get more out of it?

As for repetition, If had a group of 8 friends who were all of the same skill level, I would happily run 4v4's with that same group until the end of time. Or, ya know, Destiny comes out. :)

1 person suggesting we drop a rotation structure? ---> This guy <---- The ideal premise behind the current system is that the whole of FC is roughly homogeneous in skill level. That's much harder to achieve than swapping squads around periodically to make sure they have an opponent who can hang with them.

I've yet to see a truly epic BN where everyone involved had fun. I honestly prefer running MM with the squad because the matches are close, not bipolar.

As it stands, the unhappiness WILL die down as you say, but it will die down when the unhappy leave us forever.

Also, don't trifle with my raccoon trapping abilities. I am from Idaho, ya know ;)

THExSPIDERMAN
07-16-2013, 05:45 AM
I like things the way they are. My only problem would be the wait times.