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View Full Version : Halo Reach title update footage on damnation



cCrisis
08-17-2011, 07:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSrlaIJkm0M&feature=player_embedded

this video shows some very key things:

1:10 bleedthrough
2:30 grenade bouncing
3:23 bleedthrough beatdowns CONFIRMED
4:15 NO BLOOM CONFIRMED
4:30 armor lock nerfed (nade disabled it)
5:25 bleedthrough dmr CONFIRMED

Guzzie
08-17-2011, 07:56 PM
not sure about armor lock disabled by nades. I think he let go of armor lock to clean up those one shots.

AftershocK
08-17-2011, 07:56 PM
Whats s bleedthrough? And no bloom???? This game just got 10x better

silversleek
08-17-2011, 08:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSrlaIJkm0M&feature=player_embedded

this video shows some very key things:

1:10 bleedthrough
2:30 grenade bouncing
3:23 bleedthrough beatdowns CONFIRMED
4:15 NO BLOOM CONFIRMED
4:30 armor lock nerfed (nade disabled it)
5:25 bleedthrough dmr CONFIRMED

i like the no bloom, but i'm a little concerned about how bleedthoughs and the new armor lock nerf will affect gameplay.

Silko
08-17-2011, 08:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSrlaIJkm0M&feature=player_embedded

this video shows some very key things:

1:10 bleedthrough
2:30 grenade bouncing
3:23 bleedthrough beatdowns CONFIRMED
4:15 NO BLOOM CONFIRMED
4:30 armor lock nerfed (nade disabled it)
5:25 bleedthrough dmr CONFIRMED

Wow this is fucken stupid. First off all taking away the bloom on the DMR is retarded. It takes away the skill with it making it a point and shoot wep and not a precision based one. There was bloom on the AR however so to say all bloom is gone is a false statement

Second bleedthrough????? When this game was coming out Bungie had stated many times that the bleedthrough is gone and it made sense. You have a shield, so you shouldn't take any dmg until its gone (Sniper and other power weps exempted of course). That is to me at least one of the key things that makes Reach better then Halo 3. Its harder to kill someone in Reach then it is in Halo.

Great fucken job 343 you fucked up big time on two major things and the only positive thing I saw on both the video and this list is you gave the nades more bounce(woopy fucken do) and you nerfed Armor lock.

Over all I give you a 35% 343 a big fat F

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 08:05 PM
the problem with the bloom is that its broken. if you spam you should be punished but with the current bloom you are not. this means the more accurate player will win battles and not the luckiest player.

also the two greatest halo's(1 and 2) had no bloom and hit scan shooting. i see this making reach amazing.

the bleedthrough allows for those kids who just sprint and herp and derp you when you put 3 shots into them to get owned like they should.

Silko
08-17-2011, 08:08 PM
Then fix the bloom and not take it completely out. now it becomes who spams the wep faster. I can spam the hell out of you in the body and when your shields are low I can one shot you in the head due to no bloom and stupid bleed through

L0rd Kanti
08-17-2011, 08:09 PM
Whats s bleedthrough? And no bloom???? This game just got 10x better
you have like a sliver of shield left, i have full shield, be both beat down we are no equal footing, because we both have same health. No bleedthrough
same scenario, but with bleedthrough, you are not either dead or have almost no health left. bleedthrough.

Mythonian
08-17-2011, 08:09 PM
I agree with Silko a bit. Those changes seem to make it less of a high-skill game and down to a medium-skill game.

Removing bloom for only the DMR and leaving it for the other weapons is truly stupid. I feel they did it only for the gameplay (since the players were so bad), instead of actually changing it in the game.

Also, what Guzzie said about the Armor Lock is more accurate; it seemed obvious he was cleaning it up after he got melee'd. Armor Lock doesn't need a nerf anyway, it's bad enough. :/

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 08:10 PM
Then fix the bloom and not take it completely out. now it becomes who spams the wep faster. I can spam the hell out of you in the body and when your shields are low I can one shot you in the head due to no bloom and stupid bleed through

theres going to be a cap on how fast you can shoot the dmr and i am betting it is slower than the cap now. it will probably be the speed at which the bloom fully resets normally or a tad sooner. so basically you can't get lucky and spam and kill someone who is pacing like they should.

also all the stuff in the title update will just be a option. 343 has said they will not change reach from its original state(other than little things) but they will create more customization options. which now is confirmed as no bloom, bleed through and maybe more stuff, we will have to see.

silversleek
08-17-2011, 08:11 PM
Wow this is fucken stupid. First off all taking away the bloom on the DMR is retarded. It takes away the skill with it making it a point and shoot wep and not a precision based one. There was bloom on the AR however so to say all bloom is gone is a false statement

Second bleedthrough????? When this game was coming out Bungie had stated many times that the bleedthrough is gone and it made sense. You have a shield, so you shouldn't take any dmg until its gone (Sniper and other power weps exempted of course). That is to me at least one of the key things that makes Reach better then Halo 3. Its harder to kill someone in Reach then it is in Halo.

Great fucken job 343 you fucked up big time on two major things and the only positive thing I saw on both the video and this list is you gave the nades more bounce(woopy fucken do) and you nerfed Armor lock.

Over all I give you a 35% 343 a big fat F

what cCrisis said @#1, the bloom in reach right now rewards luck more than skill.

and yeah, i don't really like their call on adding bleedthrough.

also, everyone will have to relearn grenades, and armor lock is useless.

don't fix what's not broken.

Silko
08-17-2011, 08:13 PM
Like in Halo 3 the BR was the best gun period. I could out snipe a sniper with it, out close courts a shot gunner with it. In Reach the gun of choice by most is the DMR. But it has its limitations, I can for example long shot people with my AR faster then some can with a DMR. Thats skill not luck so now it becomes a spam fest with the dmr allowing little derps to get lucky as they spam the hell out of it.

L0rd Kanti
08-17-2011, 08:15 PM
If all i have seen is true, then this game will finally earn its title of HALO: reach.

MedeDust
08-17-2011, 08:17 PM
Wow this is fucken stupid. First off all taking away the bloom on the DMR is retarded. It takes away the skill with it making it a point and shoot wep and not a precision based one. There was bloom on the AR however so to say all bloom is gone is a false statement

Second bleedthrough????? When this game was coming out Bungie had stated many times that the bleedthrough is gone and it made sense. You have a shield, so you shouldn't take any dmg until its gone (Sniper and other power weps exempted of course). That is to me at least one of the key things that makes Reach better then Halo 3. Its harder to kill someone in Reach then it is in Halo.

Great fucken job 343 you fucked up big time on two major things and the only positive thing I saw on both the video and this list is you gave the nades more bounce(woopy fucken do) and you nerfed Armor lock.

Over all I give you a 35% 343 a big fat F

Actually the bloom from Reach is based on more luck than skill.

You're a bit dramatic when it comes to critique.

Silko
08-17-2011, 08:18 PM
theres going to be a cap on how fast you can shoot the dmr and i am betting it is slower than the cap now. it will probably be the speed at which the bloom fully resets normally.

According to this video there sure isn't. 343 can't say "Hey by my game we will give you Halo CE exactly the same but with nice graphics. Plus we will give you 6 new maps with the SAME engine as halo Reach." But they lie to you be changing a few guns because little kids cry when they get killed with a DMR

silversleek
08-17-2011, 08:20 PM
Like in Halo 3 the BR was the best gun period. I could out snipe a sniper with it, out close courts a shot gunner with it. In Reach the gun of choice by most is the DMR. But it has its limitations, I can for example long shot people with my AR faster then some can with a DMR. Thats skill not luck so now it becomes a spam fest with the dmr allowing little derps to get lucky as they spam the hell out of it.

they still have to aim. they spammed anyways and often got kills over paced shots, so what's the difference now? oh yeah, YOUR shots are more acurate, meaning you can put them in there place better.

Silko
08-17-2011, 08:21 PM
Actually the bloom from Reach is based on more luck than skill.

Do what? I don't know what games you guys have been playing but I never have this happen to me. When someone out DMRs me its because they are over all better then me. Luck is more in the direction of very luck nade throws and they just happened to get that head with it.

MedeDust
08-17-2011, 08:21 PM
The SAME engine doesn't mean the SAME type of weapons.

But it's fine, if you want to complain about a gun be my guest.

Silko
08-17-2011, 08:23 PM
The SAME engine doesn't mean the SAME type of weapons.

The bloom is PART of the engine.

Nocte
08-17-2011, 08:24 PM
No Bloom on the BR worked before, because the BR didn't use a hitscan system it used physical bullets. The DMR uses hitscan so not having bloom makes the DMR = a no skilled weapon.

Bleedthrough, do they not understand the shielding system is a kinetic barrier meaning it can't be broken unless depleted? If they don't fix this, then I will not buy Halo 4.

Why the fuck would you nerk armorlock? Just take it out of playlists that don't use a large number of vehicles. Why the hell do you need to even have ArmorLock for Team Slayer on Reflection!? Armor Lock's purpose is to destroy a vehicle before it runs over you, or deflect a vehicles weapon.... Not to use to piss people off in a 4v4.

I sweat to god if 343 becomes Infinity Ward and only listens to the whiny bitches who can't win because they can't even hold the god damn controller right then they just killed the best Xbox Series to date.

Mythonian
08-17-2011, 08:25 PM
Also, the Bloom isn't "broken" as I see it. All it does is add to the game a bit of realism and risk that complicate scenarios.

It doesn't reward luck more than skill. It is pure statistics, and merely because someone got a so-called "lucky shot" doesn't mean it is broken.

The further you are from your opponent, the less likely you are to score a hit. At about 5 feet, it'll be about 90% (at full bloom). At 10 feet, 75%. At 20 feet, 40%. At 50 feet, 5%. {approximations}.

Spamming the DMR at close range is practical, because it allows you to defend more effectively against other close-range weapons, including Shotguns, Swords, and ARs. Pacing shots at longer ranges prevents the DMR from completely dominating everything else at medium to long range, because it slows your fire rate.

If you are able to shoot at full-speed for all ranges, then the DMR just got 3x better at longer ranges. If they slow the fire rate to prevent this, then the DMR just got 3x worse at close ranges.

Knowing when to spam and when to pace allows the DMR to be insanely versatile. The variable fire rate versus the practicality and statistics of making a shot make it complicated to use, but it heavily rewards those who use it effectively.

Once again, it is statistics, not luck. The factor of randomness isn't a bad thing. The may get "lucky" 5% of the time and get a spammed kill at longer ranges, but that does nothing to break the game. All it does is prevent total domination of the few who are able to pace themselves effectively.

I'll say it right now: If I had my way, the bloom would be even slower to return to normal. I still think I can DMR people at long ranges too easily, even with the current bloom...

Nocte
08-17-2011, 08:32 PM
Also, the Bloom isn't "broken" as I see it. All it does is add to the game a bit of realism and risk that complicate scenarios.

It doesn't reward luck more than skill. It is pure statistics, and merely because someone got a so-called "lucky shot" doesn't mean it is broken.

The further you are from your opponent, the less likely you are to score a hit. At about 5 feet, it'll be about 90% (at full bloom). At 10 feet, 75%. At 20 feet, 40%. At 50 feet, 5%. {approximations}.

Spamming the DMR at close range is practical, because it allows you to defend more effectively against other close-range weapons, including Shotguns, Swords, and ARs. Pacing shots at longer ranges prevents the DMR from completely dominating everything else at medium to long range, because it slows your fire rate.

If you are able to shoot at full-speed for all ranges, then the DMR just got 3x better at longer ranges. If they slow the fire rate to prevent this, then the DMR just got 3x worse at close ranges.

Knowing when to spam and when to pace allows the DMR to be insanely versatile. The variable fire rate versus the practicality and statistics of making a shot make it complicated to use, but it heavily rewards those who use it effectively.

Once again, it is statistics, not luck. The factor of randomness isn't a bad thing. The may get "lucky" 5% of the time and get a spammed kill at longer ranges, but that does nothing to break the game. All it does is prevent total domination of the few who are able to pace themselves effectively.

I'll say it right now: If I had my way, the bloom would be even slower to return to normal. I still think I can DMR people at long ranges too easily, even with the current bloom...

Ya Myth just pooped on anyone who said bloom was broken, useless, or lucky.

Myth I completely agree!

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 08:35 PM
No Bloom on the BR worked before, because the BR didn't use a hitscan system it used physical bullets. The DMR uses hitscan so not having bloom makes the DMR = a no skilled weapon.

Bleedthrough, do they not understand the shielding system is a kinetic barrier meaning it can't be broken unless depleted? If they don't fix this, then I will not buy Halo 4.

Why the fuck would you nerk armorlock? Just take it out of playlists that don't use a large number of vehicles. Why the hell do you need to even have ArmorLock for Team Slayer on Reflection!? Armor Lock's purpose is to destroy a vehicle before it runs over you, or deflect a vehicles weapon.... Not to use to piss people off in a 4v4.

I sweat to god if 343 becomes Infinity Ward and only listens to the whiny bitches who can't win because they can't even hold the god damn controller right then they just killed the best Xbox Series to date.

bleedthrough has been the previous 3 halos so i technically shields in the halo universe are what they are like in halo 1-3, they messed it up in reach ^_^.

bleedthrough fixes a lot of things. i can shoot someone 3 times while they sprint at me and beat me down and we are on the same shield level..... gun skill should always trump you hitting a button(sprint) and pressing another button(beatdown).

silversleek
08-17-2011, 08:35 PM
The further you are from your opponent, the less likely you are to score a hit. At about 5 feet, it'll be about 90% (at full bloom). At 10 feet, 75%. At 20 feet, 40%. At 50 feet, 5%. {approximations}.


in my mind, that's luck, not skill. if i put my reticule over the guys head and shoot, i expect it to go where i shoot. not have a 95% chance of shooting off somewhere else if i'm but 50 feet away. even real guns have better accuracy than this. a real SHOTGUN is more accurate than that at that range. All though i do agree, bloom does work, but it's also stupid. keep in mind that it is supposed to be a mid-long range weapon. Although, i hate it as much as anyone when someone crossmaps you, it helps people to learn to be carefull and not to run out in the open like an idiot.

Guzzie
08-17-2011, 08:39 PM
Also, the Bloom isn't "broken" as I see it. All it does is add to the game a bit of realism and risk that complicate scenarios.

It doesn't reward luck more than skill. It is pure statistics, and merely because someone got a so-called "lucky shot" doesn't mean it is broken.

The further you are from your opponent, the less likely you are to score a hit. At about 5 feet, it'll be about 90% (at full bloom). At 10 feet, 75%. At 20 feet, 40%. At 50 feet, 5%. {approximations}.

Spamming the DMR at close range is practical, because it allows you to defend more effectively against other close-range weapons, including Shotguns, Swords, and ARs. Pacing shots at longer ranges prevents the DMR from completely dominating everything else at medium to long range, because it slows your fire rate.

If you are able to shoot at full-speed for all ranges, then the DMR just got 3x better at longer ranges. If they slow the fire rate to prevent this, then the DMR just got 3x worse at close ranges.

Knowing when to spam and when to pace allows the DMR to be insanely versatile. The variable fire rate versus the practicality and statistics of making a shot make it complicated to use, but it heavily rewards those who use it effectively.

Once again, it is statistics, not luck. The factor of randomness isn't a bad thing. The may get "lucky" 5% of the time and get a spammed kill at longer ranges, but that does nothing to break the game. All it does is prevent total domination of the few who are able to pace themselves effectively.

I'll say it right now: If I had my way, the bloom would be even slower to return to normal. I still think I can DMR people at long ranges too easily, even with the current bloom...

What Myth said. Although I must say that sometimes spamming does favor the side of luck. There are many times when I am ahead a few shots, perfectly pacing my shots, and I get spammed and killed. That doesn't mean I hate the bloom, I find it more rewarding pacing a 5 shot than spamming a five shot, so really I guess I am 50/50 on the removing of the bloom. As for the bleedthrough, I do like this change. I don't like being ahead shots and being placed on equal level because of a beatdown by some kid that just bum rushed me.

Mythonian
08-17-2011, 08:40 PM
bleedthrough has been the previous 3 halos so i technically shields in the halo universe are what they are like in halo 1-3, they messed it up in reach ^_^.

bleedthrough fixes a lot of things. i can shoot someone 3 times while they sprint at me and beat me down and we are on the same shield level..... gun skill should always trump you hitting a button(sprint) and pressing another button(beatdown). The shields in Reach are more accurate to canon then the previous games (i.e., the traits of kinetic barriers, as described in the books/fiction, are closer to Reach then the other games). That is what Eagle meant.

Those people who do that are suiciding into you, effectively. You could easily double beatdown them simultaneously, if need be. All it does is give someone a sort of "final stand" for which they are able to more effectively deal damage at the cost of exposing themselves and likely ending in a death.

It isn't something that is overpowered. It is something that makes the game more balanced.

silversleek
08-17-2011, 08:42 PM
The shields in Reach are more accurate to canon then the previous games (i.e., the traits of kinetic barriers, as described in the books/fiction, are closer to Reach then the other games). That is what Eagle meant.

Those people who do that are suiciding into you, effectively. You could easily double beatdown them simultaneously, if need be. All it does is give someone a sort of "final stand" for which they are able to more effectively deal damage at the cost of exposing themselves and likely ending in a death.

It isn't something that is overpowered. It is something that makes the game more balanced.

you know, i say they should leave the game as-is. like i said in a previous post, don't fix what's not broken.

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 08:45 PM
Also, the Bloom isn't "broken" as I see it. All it does is add to the game a bit of realism and risk that complicate scenarios.

It doesn't reward luck more than skill. It is pure statistics, and merely because someone got a so-called "lucky shot" doesn't mean it is broken.

The further you are from your opponent, the less likely you are to score a hit. At about 5 feet, it'll be about 90% (at full bloom). At 10 feet, 75%. At 20 feet, 40%. At 50 feet, 5%. {approximations}.

Spamming the DMR at close range is practical, because it allows you to defend more effectively against other close-range weapons, including Shotguns, Swords, and ARs. Pacing shots at longer ranges prevents the DMR from completely dominating everything else at medium to long range, because it slows your fire rate.

If you are able to shoot at full-speed for all ranges, then the DMR just got 3x better at longer ranges. If they slow the fire rate to prevent this, then the DMR just got 3x worse at close ranges.

Knowing when to spam and when to pace allows the DMR to be insanely versatile. The variable fire rate versus the practicality and statistics of making a shot make it complicated to use, but it heavily rewards those who use it effectively.

Once again, it is statistics, not luck. The factor of randomness isn't a bad thing. The may get "lucky" 5% of the time and get a spammed kill at longer ranges, but that does nothing to break the game. All it does is prevent total domination of the few who are able to pace themselves effectively.

I'll say it right now: If I had my way, the bloom would be even slower to return to normal. I still think I can DMR people at long ranges too easily, even with the current bloom...

the problem with the realism thing is, its a game and you use a controller, i do not have a gun in my hands to see down the scope or have the actual feel of a gun firing. a game cannot be compared to "real life" in that sense.

bloom in reach is broken it doesn't take overall skill, it is a odd's game which you stated but in a video game that is no fun. when i aim at someone i want my bullets to hit 100% of the time not 20% or 40% or 80%.

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 08:47 PM
you know, i say they should leave the game as-is. like i said in a previous post, don't fix what's not broken.

all these things are customization options. some playlists will use them some won't. for example team classic(suppose to represent old halo games) will have no bloom and bleedthrough but many other playlists will be the same.

Guzzie
08-17-2011, 08:51 PM
cCrisis the halo reach title update fanboy :)

RaZ Vader
08-17-2011, 08:51 PM
Blah.. Idk what to think. it was fun in halo 2. Maybe in reach too, but I just got used to the bloom and overall gameplay of Reach.. :(

XxClearSh0txX
08-17-2011, 08:52 PM
Also, the Bloom isn't "broken" as I see it. All it does is add to the game a bit of realism and risk that complicate scenarios.I just wanna point out that, no matter how fast you shoot a gun, no matter how little control you have over where the barrel is facing, the bullet will ALWAYS go EXACTLY where the barrel is facing. It just gets harder to control where the barrel is facing the faster you shoot. With bloom, if you're shooting fast, the bullet only goes in the general direction of where the barrel's pointing. Not very realistic.

If I had things my way, we'd have recoil, not bloom. A DMR with no bloom and little recoil is asking for trouble to me.

silversleek
08-17-2011, 08:52 PM
all these things are customization options. some playlists will use them some won't. for example team classic(suppose to represent old halo games) will have no bloom and bleedthrough but many other playlists will be the same.

..actually, that would work. reach is definitly lacking on the customization aspect for games anyways.

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 08:53 PM
The shields in Reach are more accurate to canon then the previous games (i.e., the traits of kinetic barriers, as described in the books/fiction, are closer to Reach then the other games). That is what Eagle meant.

Those people who do that are suiciding into you, effectively. You could easily double beatdown them simultaneously, if need be. All it does is give someone a sort of "final stand" for which they are able to more effectively deal damage at the cost of exposing themselves and likely ending in a death.

It isn't something that is overpowered. It is something that makes the game more balanced.


ya it's balancing in the fact that it makes less skilled players kill more skilled players.

Nocte
08-17-2011, 08:53 PM
in my mind, that's luck, not skill. if i put my reticule over the guys head and shoot, i expect it to go where i shoot. not have a 95% chance of shooting off somewhere else if i'm but 50 feet away. even real guns have better accuracy than this. a real SHOTGUN is more accurate than that at that range. All though i do agree, bloom does work, but it's also stupid. keep in mind that it is supposed to be a mid-long range weapon. Although, i hate it as much as anyone when someone crossmaps you, it helps people to learn to be carefull and not to run out in the open like an idiot.

That isn't blooms fault, that "luck" is coming from the hitscan system.

Hitscan:

You have a circle (DMR Crosshair)
Within that circle based, on how much of that circle your target covers. Gives a percentage of how likely you will hit your target. COD uses a hitscan system for all weapons. Halo: Reach uses it for only a few weapons.

Now if you take away bloom then you lose the skill of being able to time shots at distanced and the DMR basically becomes a less powerful sniper rifle that fires faster and will be slightly less accurate.

For hitscan the bullets you see come out of your weapon aren't physical. The second you pull that trigger is the second the bullet hits it's target. Meaning that the if their is no bloom that at a range the DMR is far to accurate and becomes more Over Powered then the BR in Halo 3......

Mythonian
08-17-2011, 08:54 PM
in my mind, that's luck, not skill. if i put my reticule over the guys head and shoot, i expect it to go where i shoot. not have a 95% chance of shooting off somewhere else if i'm but 50 feet away. even real guns have better accuracy than this. a real SHOTGUN is more accurate than that at that range. All though i do agree, bloom does work, but it's also stupid. keep in mind that it is supposed to be a mid-long range weapon. Although, i hate it as much as anyone when someone crossmaps you, it helps people to learn to be carefull and not to run out in the open like an idiot. I said "at full bloom" meaning that you've been spamming your DMR so much that the bloom is full, meaning you are insanely inaccurate. Having a real gun and shooting from the hip (assuming it is automatic) for 2 seconds, and the likelihood you will hit the target is about 5% per shot.
What Myth said. Although I must say that sometimes spamming does favor the side of luck. There are many times when I am ahead a few shots, perfectly pacing my shots, and I get spammed and killed. That doesn't mean I hate the bloom, I find it more rewarding pacing a 5 shot than spamming a five shot, so really I guess I am 50/50 on the removing of the bloom. As for the bleedthrough, I do like this change. I don't like being ahead shots and being placed on equal level because of a beatdown by some kid that just bum rushed me. Being spammed can be very irritating indeed. However, they only get the kill about 5% of the time. The other 95% of the time, pacing the shots gets you the kill. The small factor of randomness helps to keep the game interesting.
the problem with the realism thing is, its a game and you use a controller, i do not have a gun in my hands to see down the scope or have the actual feel of a gun firing. a game cannot be compared to "real life" in that sense. bloom in reach is broken it doesn't take overall skill, it is a odd's game which you stated but in a video game that is no fun. when i aim at someone i want my bullets to hit 100% of the time not 20% or 40% or 80%. You have the option to take the 100% shot. If you want, you let the bloom reduce and then shoot. However, if you want to take a risk for a lower hit %, then you are able to do it. As I said before, it allows it to be versatile. Being able to choose how likely you want your shots to be versus the time between shots makes it complicated to use.

You may not think it's fun, but I find it to make the game twice as interesting. A degree in randomness is always a good thing as I see it, otherwise you'll be like "crap he got the first shot, there is no way I can come back" instead of "crap he got the first shot, I'll need to take some risky shots to have a chance to win". That makes the game interesting.
all these things are customization options. some playlists will use them some won't. for example team classic(suppose to represent old halo games) will have no bloom and bleedthrough but many other playlists will be the same. If they are just options, then I fully support it. However, if it is an overall change that effects everything, then it is bad in my opinion.
I just wanna point out that, no matter how fast you shoot a gun, no matter how little control you have over where the barrel is facing, the bullet will ALWAYS go EXACTLY where the barrel is facing. It just gets harder to control where the barrel is facing the faster you shoot. With bloom, if you're shooting fast, the bullet only goes in the general direction of where the barrel's pointing. Not very realistic.

If I had things my way, we'd have recoil, not bloom. A DMR with no bloom and little recoil is asking for trouble to me. Bloom represents recoil. In my opinion, bloom is better than having your weapon swinging around your screen constantly so you can't see anything...

Captain Poder
08-17-2011, 08:59 PM
am i the only one here who actually likes bloom?

Fiery Grave
08-17-2011, 09:00 PM
most of these changes make no sense... bleed through was something that was only in previous games cause of engine limitations.... halo 1 - ODST all used the same engine but just upgraded as they went along.... Reach used a completely new engine which allowed them to do it the way it was meant to be and its not like Bleed through on beat downs will make a difference.... 1 melee does just enough damage to kill some one with no shields (as you can't get a melee headshot) when you have no shields your health is the same (or just a little weaker but not a super significant amount) to everything but headshots, headshots do more damage with no shields... notice it still takes 4 more shots to the body to kill someone with no shields? so if some one bum rushes you to do a double melee, you would still have to take out his shields and melee him before he gets close enough to do the same... which is what you do now.

AL nurf makes no sense... why would nades take you out of it? it would make more sense for maybe a overcharged plasma pistol or concussion rifle (bouncing the person off the ground and out of AL)... the only thing they need to fix with AL is the splash over on spartans... which they kind of did as its only DMRs, Pistols, snipers (both) & NR that can't hurt some one or stop their shields coming up.... AR stop shields from recharging when some one comes out of AL

and weapon bloom wouldn't be an option... it would give some players an advantage over others.... and the only problem with the current bloom is when spamming the bullets never fly out more to the size of the reticle, they are more often still fairly accurate... if they would increase blooms effects it would be much better... not remove it only for DMR as that would be stupid.... and if my AR didn't have bloom you can be a lot more people are going to be fucked up by it and my K/D spread is going to go way up

silversleek
08-17-2011, 09:01 PM
am i the only one here who actually likes bloom?

i'm 50/50.

@eagle, i know what hitscan is.

Mythonian
08-17-2011, 09:01 PM
ya it's balancing in the fact that it makes less skilled players kill more skilled players. If you are so much more skilled then they are, don't fall for it. I find it easy to beat them, either by putting the 4th shot and finishing them off with a melee simultaneous to their first melee, or just 5-shotting them.

I find being double-beatdowned an extremely rare thing, so I don't really know what you are complaining about... I find random 'nades to be more irritating.
am i the only one here who actually likes bloom? Someone didn't read the thread... xD

Nocte
08-17-2011, 09:05 PM
i'm 50/50.

@eagle, i know what hitscan is.

Well apparently no one here who is arguing for removing bloom does. That is the system that is used and the reason why their is bloom. Hitscan in my opinion is a terrible idea, but I think it allows them to add more to the engine because it isn't calculating physical bullets. It just selects a random location within the circle and thats where the bullet hits.

Anyone ever fired a DMR round into a grunts head from a distance, most of the crosshair covers the head save a small part and that small part is the area that gets hit? Ya that better explains hitscan....

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 09:06 PM
the odds are closer than 95/5. if you want to see a game with bloom that works go look at video's of shadowrun. if bloom in reach was like shadowruns it would be extremely skillful to use but reach's bloom is to much luck or odds as you call it.

silversleek
08-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Well apparently no one here who is arguing for removing bloom does. That is the system that is used and the reason why their is bloom. Hitscan in my opinion is a terrible idea, but I think it allows them to add more to the engine because it isn't calculating physical bullets. It just selects a random location within the circle and thats where the bullet hits.

Anyone ever fired a DMR round into a grunts head from a distance, most of the crosshair covers the head save a small part and that small part is the area that gets hit? Ya that better explains hitscan....

yeah, but bloom makes that circle exponentially bigger. (full bloom vs no bloom comparison). there in lies the problem. physical bullets are more iffy to me than hitscan because it's so easy to sidestep them, unless you make them so fast that it's practically hitscan. mercenaries 2 was a great game except it had slow moving bullets, so the ai could literally sidestep your assault rifle spray. speed up those bullets, and it would probably be a best-seller.

Fiery Grave
08-17-2011, 09:14 PM
Halo has always had luck as apart of it more so than most other games... it allows for that crazy time when (insert crazy time here) that isn't found in other games. Have you ever seen a land vehical some one was driving in battlefield fall from the sky and land on someone and you have no idea how it happened? Or a guy shoot himself in the head when he missed the shot on a enemy and the bullet bounced back at him in call of duty? i doubt it... Randomness and luck make halo, halo... its been there since the start

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 09:17 PM
If you are so much more skilled then they are, don't fall for it. I find it easy to beat them, either by putting the 4th shot and finishing them off with a melee simultaneous to their first melee, or just 5-shotting them.

I find being double-beatdowned an extremely rare thing, so I don't really know what you are complaining about... I find random 'nades to be more irritating. Someone didn't read the thread... xD

if i was sitting in my base or a good distance from there base i wouldn't get double beatdown but halo has always been a game about pushing and controlling power weapons so in turn you are forced to push close to the other team. also smaller maps i get double beatdown all the time.

XxClearSh0txX
08-17-2011, 09:19 PM
Bloom represents recoil. In my opinion, bloom is better than having your weapon swinging around your screen constantly so you can't see anything...You kinda just blew off my stuff about bloom =/= recoil... I know it's supposed to represent it, but why not have the real thing instead, ya know?

It doesn't have to be a lot of recoil. Just enough to give the gun a bit of a learning curve, to where you can really tell the difference between a newer player (who would be shooting slower to compensate for recoil) and a veteran (who would be used to recoil and therefore be able to shoot faster).

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 09:20 PM
Halo has always had luck as apart of it more so than most other games... it allows for that crazy time when (insert crazy time here) that isn't found in other games. Have you ever seen a land vehical some one was driving in battlefield fall from the sky and land on someone and you have no idea how it happened? Or a guy shoot himself in the head when he missed the shot on a enemy and the bullet bounced back at him in call of duty? i doubt it... Randomness and luck make halo, halo... its been there since the start

the two greatest halos were not about luck when considering the weapons and mechanics of the game, obviously things that were not planned to happen sometime happen such as bouncing bullets but randomness is not fun overall.

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 09:28 PM
Well apparently no one here who is arguing for removing bloom does. That is the system that is used and the reason why their is bloom. Hitscan in my opinion is a terrible idea, but I think it allows them to add more to the engine because it isn't calculating physical bullets. It just selects a random location within the circle and thats where the bullet hits.

Anyone ever fired a DMR round into a grunts head from a distance, most of the crosshair covers the head save a small part and that small part is the area that gets hit? Ya that better explains hitscan....

a lot of the "lag" that was apart of halo 3 was because of it not being hitscan. trying to accurately calculate how far to lead bullets when latency is always changing depending on the host is impossible and made lag seem so much worse in halo 3.

hitscan is a must for online tbh.

UnfoldedFreedom
08-17-2011, 10:10 PM
everyone the bloom isn't taken out of reach completely . Their will be playlist with or with out bloom okay so don't freak out.

and how does it take less skill with out bloom ? its the best aim wins.

-thank god for nade getting nerfed .
-hopefully they slow down the rate of fire of some of these weapons.
-bleed through is needed because the herp a derp is fucking annoying.

And if you guys think this will lower the skill gap it won't , the competitive community has been asking for this since day 1

Hope fully they balance out Dmr/pistol/needle riffle ( rate of fire)

cCrisis
08-17-2011, 10:23 PM
everyone the bloom isn't taken out of reach completely . Their will be playlist with or with out bloom okay so don't freak out.

and how does it take less skill with out bloom ? its the best aim wins.

-thank god for nade getting nerfed .
-hopefully they slow down the rate of fire of some of these weapons.
-bleed through is needed because the herp a derp is fucking annoying.

And if you guys think this will lower the skill gap it won't , the competitive community has been asking for this since day 1

Hope fully they balance out Dmr/pistol/needle riffle ( rate of fire)

in theory bloom takes more skill but in halo reach and how they implemented the bloom, it is a lot of luck and takes away from the skill. aiming is easier than aiming plus pacing your shots. but the bloom in reach creates a luck factor.

d3ad1te
08-17-2011, 10:57 PM
the problem with the realism thing is, its a game and you use a controller, i do not have a gun in my hands to see down the scope or have the actual feel of a gun firing. a game cannot be compared to "real life" in that sense.

bloom in reach is broken it doesn't take overall skill, it is a odd's game which you stated but in a video game that is no fun. when i aim at someone i want my bullets to hit 100% of the time not 20% or 40% or 80%.

You bring up a good point. I think of Halo as almost an E-sports title.

But bloom really wasn't a problem for me.

Lightning
08-17-2011, 11:43 PM
Personally,

I'm glad they took the bloom off.

With all of Halo's weapons, there's never been bloom.

Quoted from youtube user-
"They just turned Reach into Halo: Reach"

Scarekro
08-17-2011, 11:50 PM
I didn't really care about the bloom. Sure, it was annoying. But it made me a better player.

As far as the bleedthough, I had no idea what it was until now and never noticed that it disappeared between H3 and Reach. And I really couldn't care less about that either. I've always loved Halo and never really had any complaints about the gameplay.

OzzyIzSick
08-17-2011, 11:54 PM
Thank god for no bloom... Gets all those lucky spammers out of the way. Now its based on skill alone. THANK YOU 343.

zZ Dr K Zz
08-18-2011, 01:14 AM
Bloom has always been in Halo. It's just never been made obvious to the viewer like it is in Reach.

It's not really removed, but hidden again to make people feel better.

VerbotenDonkey
08-18-2011, 01:49 AM
I LOVE how finally it matters that I put 4 DMR rounds into someone before we both beat eachother down and it didn't matter. THANK GOD.

However, I agree that without bloom, DMR really only breaks down to whoever is a better shot, and I feel like the game would be better with an /accurate/ bloom system.

Silko
08-18-2011, 02:37 AM
the competitive community has been asking for this since day 1

Who else have been asking for this? the whiny kid community. Both in my eyes tend to have similar views.

No game is perfect and to state that Reach is perfect... well you get the idea. But instead of just completely removing the "issue" (in my mind the bloom is perfectly ok) you can work with it. I agree what both Eagle and Myth have said about the bleed through and I have posted it as well. The shield is meant to absorb all dmg until it overloads and "pops". When I heard Bungie say how the current shield system is going to work I almost jumped up with joy. No more bringing peoples shields down to half and meleeing. Bloom system awesome, no more BR spamming noobs. If people want this so bad again then put in Halo 3 into your Xbox. This is Halo: Reach, not that garbage

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 02:55 AM
Bloom has always been in Halo. It's just never been made obvious to the viewer like it is in Reach.

It's not really removed, but hidden again to make people feel better.

no halo has had bloom. the only thing close to bloom was halo 3 with bullet spread.

Guzzie
08-18-2011, 03:07 AM
no halo has had bloom. the only thing close to bloom was halo 3 with bullet spread.

Halo 1 you had to lead your bullets a bit, but no bloom. Halo 2 was hit scan, no bloom. Halo 3 had a BR spread, no bloom. Halo reach is the only halo game with bloom.

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 03:46 AM
Who else have been asking for this? the whiny kid community. Both in my eyes tend to have similar views.

No game is perfect and to state that Reach is perfect... well you get the idea. But instead of just completely removing the "issue" (in my mind the bloom is perfectly ok) you can work with it. I agree what both Eagle and Myth have said about the bleed through and I have posted it as well. The shield is meant to absorb all dmg until it overloads and "pops". When I heard Bungie say how the current shield system is going to work I almost jumped up with joy. No more bringing peoples shields down to half and meleeing. Bloom system awesome, no more BR spamming noobs. If people want this so bad again then put in Halo 3 into your Xbox. This is Halo: Reach, not that garbage

honestly i couldn't care less about the halo story or how shields are suppose to work in reality. i want to play a HALO game. reach was not halo as we have known it. if i wanted to play something that represent real physics or what something should be like IRL i would play cod or battlefield or something like that.

the reason halo 3 was garbage was because there was bullet spread which just like bloom creates randomness........ halo 2 and halo 1 had bullets that traveled and were accurate to were you aimed them. in theory bloom is good and if implemented correctly it is a good thing but in reach is creates a luck factor.

if reach had bloom like shadowrun were if you spam you were punished, than it would be a good a thing. odds of spamming and hitting in shadowrun are like 1 and 1000.


i am glad they are going back to the halo roots.

RENGADE 0F FUNK
08-18-2011, 10:07 AM
happy face

Fiery Grave
08-18-2011, 11:52 AM
bleed through was something that was only in previous games cause of engine limitations.... halo 1 - ODST all used the same engine but just upgraded as they went along.... Reach used a completely new engine which allowed them to do it the way it was meant to be and its not like Bleed through on beat downs will make a difference.... 1 melee does just enough damage to kill some one with no shields (as you can't get a melee headshot) when you have no shields your health is the same (or just a little weaker but not a super significant amount) to everything but headshots, headshots do more damage with no shields... notice it still takes 4 more shots to the body to kill someone with no shields? so if some one bum rushes you to do a double melee, you would still have to take out his shields and melee him before he gets close enough to do the same... which is what you do now.


Cause a lot of people seemed to miss this ^^


Thank god for no bloom... Gets all those lucky spammers out of the way. Now its based on skill alone. THANK YOU 343.

Luck will always have some part to play in the game, they can never remove the luck factor...


Bloom has always been in Halo. It's just never been made obvious to the viewer like it is in Reach.

It's not really removed, but hidden again to make people feel better.

He is actually right, it has always been in halo.


honestly i couldn't care less about the halo story or how shields are suppose to work in reality. i want to play a HALO game. reach was not halo as we have known it. if i wanted to play something that represent real physics or what something should be like IRL i would play cod or battlefield or something like that.

Well then your not playing a Halo game because its a halo game.... Halo is the story to a lot of people, the multiplayer is also a part of it but its not all that makes halo, Reach is Halo as it is supposed to be... the way bungie wanted to do halo 1 but couldn't. this isn't stuff from real life, in the books (fiction) and when bungie describes the shields it works in this fashion.



the reason halo 3 was garbage was because there was bullet spread which just like bloom creates randomness........ halo 2 and halo 1 had bullets that traveled and were accurate to were you aimed them. in theory bloom is good and if implemented correctly it is a good thing but in reach is creates a luck factor.
you haven't gone back and played them lately have you? The BR wasn't that accurate (not even halo 3 accurate), the pistols were only good med - short range. there was no super accurate weapon like the DMR in those 2 games



if reach had bloom like shadowrun were if you spam you were punished, than it would be a good a thing. odds of spamming and hitting in shadowrun are like 1 and 1000.


you say you want it to be pure skill but thats still a lucky chance factor.


Bloom has existed in halo games since halo 1.... the easiest example to see would be the AR, pop in halo 1 and take the AR and pull the trigger gently and quickly... all the shots are fairly centered, and if you keep just burst firing the the gun it stay fairly accurate.... hold it down full auto and the spread of the bullets increases. you can also see this with pistols in both halo 1 & 2....... the reticle in those games was close to full bloom... but not quite there... BLOOM HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE

Maxdoggy
08-18-2011, 12:16 PM
Here's the official Maxdoggy statement on this issue:

I want clear facts laid out by 343i before I say anything and continue the speculation.


That is all.

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 02:16 PM
they talk about the video and some of the things about the TU. they don't really discuss details about what they are going to do but the video is there for you too see for yourself.

also they talk about how they didn't have time to create a new UI with bloom/bleedthrough options, so to get the game types with no bloom/bleedthrough you will have to play the playlist than save the gametypes and change settings from there.

VerbotenDonkey
08-18-2011, 02:21 PM
Will FC be adding these settings?

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 02:46 PM
Cause a lot of people seemed to miss this ^^

Luck will always have some part to play in the game, they can never remove the luck factor...

He is actually right, it has always been in halo.

Well then your not playing a Halo game because its a halo game.... Halo is the story to a lot of people, the multiplayer is also a part of it but its not all that makes halo, Reach is Halo as it is supposed to be... the way bungie wanted to do halo 1 but couldn't. this isn't stuff from real life, in the books (fiction) and when bungie describes the shields it works in this fashion.

you haven't gone back and played them lately have you? The BR wasn't that accurate (not even halo 3 accurate), the pistols were only good med - short range. there was no super accurate weapon like the DMR in those 2 games

you say you want it to be pure skill but thats still a lucky chance factor.

Bloom has existed in halo games since halo 1.... the easiest example to see would be the AR, pop in halo 1 and take the AR and pull the trigger gently and quickly... all the shots are fairly centered, and if you keep just burst firing the the gun it stay fairly accurate.... hold it down full auto and the spread of the bullets increases. you can also see this with pistols in both halo 1 & 2....... the reticle in those games was close to full bloom... but not quite there... BLOOM HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE

the problem with the bloom is there is tons of luck, obviously luck, or in this case randomness, will always be in anything you do but only to a certain degree. bloom increases the randomness by exponential amounts, which makes game play not as fun. if i am playing pong i want the ball to bounce off the wall at the angle it is suppose to, not at a random angle that varies by 5% one way or the other. reducing things that create large amounts of randomness will always make game play better.

i could almost guarantee that bungie, halo 3 and halo reach would not have been here now if h1 and h2 did not have the success that it had in multi-player. halo 1 was so amazing because bungie found a way to properly implement FPS games on a console with a controller, in turn changing video games on consoles forever. do you honestly believe that bungie would have sold even half of the number of copies of halo 2-reach if the game didn't have multi-player?

i want HALO1-2 gameplay because it was amazing, if the stuff in HALO1-2 doesn't represent how the story portrays it is, i could careless. if masterchief was a giant pink bunny i would still play the game because the gameplay was amazing.

and i was wrong about one thing, the H1 pistol did have bloom(the only precision weapon in halo's history to have bloom besides the DMR) but if you watch a video about the bloom on the pistol, it works like bloom should work. shots are accurate but if you spam your shots are hitting extremely far away from where your aiming.

H1 pistol bloom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OilVqh0lhNY

H2 and H3 BR comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ079MdYA08

EDIT: IDK why there are smile faces in the links but they still work.

yes there is luck/randomness in any game with bloom, even shadowrun but the difference is 1 in 5 times the spammer wins in reach but in shadowrun 1 in 1000 win. 1 in 5 makes a huge difference to the game play in each game and takes away from the skill gap, while 1 in 1000 will effect game play extremely minimally and increase the skill gap. bloom in reach needs to work like bloom should, if you spam you should be hitting the ceiling not hitting very close to were your aiming.

343 doesn't have the time to do the tests to make the bloom better so they decide to make an option to turn it off, which honestly is the smart thing to do. i would rather have no bloom than bloom that doesn't work like it should.

in a FPS game the better player should win, not the luckiest or because of a randomness factor in the game that influences game play by a lot. obviously the better player might make mental mistakes and cost him the battle but that in turn means he was not the more skilled player.

bazongaman502
08-18-2011, 02:59 PM
bloom is fine, i dont spam my shots, i actually time them all the time... removing bloom would be a mistake becuase it would cause the fight to really turn into "who can shoot faster" rather then who is the better player...

Im gonna be really upset if the bloom is removed... also is it just me or did the sniper look a little different in the video?

Reach is fine as is... leave it be 343, please

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 03:59 PM
bloom is fine, i dont spam my shots, i actually time them all the time... removing bloom would be a mistake becuase it would cause the fight to really turn into "who can shoot faster" rather then who is the better player...

Im gonna be really upset if the bloom is removed... also is it just me or did the sniper look a little different in the video?

Reach is fine as is... leave it be 343, please

there's a rate of fire cap............. so it is who ever can shoot the most accurate, much like the other halos.

Kuhblam
08-18-2011, 04:10 PM
Will FC be adding these settings?

Our policy to my understanding has been and always will be to use the most recent title updates and Halo games for the wars.

~Kuhblam

AftershocK
08-18-2011, 04:39 PM
No bloom in fc.

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 05:15 PM
Our policy to my understanding has been and always will be to use the most recent title updates and Halo games for the wars.

~Kuhblam

it will be a customization option for bloom/bleedthrough and a few tweaks to things, i think there messing with nades a little. i don't think anything they are doing will really change the game as a whole from what we know now.

i hope fc atleast uses the bleed through, i hate when i shoot at someone and their response is to sprint at me and beatdown but even though i shot him 3 times and then beatdown and he only beat me down we are at the same shields. pressing sprint and pressing beatdown(less skillful) should not have the same results as shooting him 3 times and beating down(more skillful).

Fiery Grave
08-18-2011, 06:33 PM
it will be a customization option for bloom/bleedthrough and a few tweaks to things, i think there messing with nades a little. i don't think anything they are doing will really change the game as a whole from what we know now.

i hope fc atleast uses the bleed through, i hate when i shoot at someone and their response is to sprint at me and beatdown but even though i shot him 3 times and then beatdown and he only beat me down we are at the same shields. pressing sprint and pressing beatdown(less skillful) should not have the same results as shooting him 3 times and beating down(more skillful).

even with bleed through it wont make a difference... as i have stated before... and i really have never had a problem with this... you should try using some other method for this than what obviously isn't working for you.... try and AR it stops that in its track

Nicholas Sapien
08-18-2011, 06:53 PM
do whatever you need to kill the other guy it is a game

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 06:59 PM
even with bleed through it wont make a difference... as i have stated before... and i really have never had a problem with this... you should try using some other method for this than what obviously isn't working for you.... try and AR it stops that in its track

halo is about map movement and has always been, power weapons are placed on maps to force teams to move to get them or be punished for not. your basically saying i need to stay away from the other team or be herp-a-derp'd? in a close quarters environment(for example, i am on countdown and i am at the concussion rifle and someone sprints from the top small door (the door leading to the top health pack) and i shoot them 3 times and they just continue to sprint and we beatdown at the same time and we are on even health.) that is broken mechanics and unbalanced gameplay, it doesn't make logical sense for the two individuals to be at the same health after that situation when talking about balanced and fair gameplay.

Carpe Vexillum
08-18-2011, 07:43 PM
Whats all of this about skill? You still have to aim its not like they put in an aim bot. If you spam the body you still then have to go for the head and the person with better aim wins anyway because they will get to the head faster because they are there already. Stop whining.

Anyway, anyone else like the quick scope with the rocket? xD

Also related, Yay beaver creek and tiny ass bases. Getting a flag out of there is a bitch. I'm also glad they brought back the badass Needler melee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAd4l9oxcCA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16LAohqD8jw&feature=related

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 08:09 PM
Whats all of this about skill? You still have to aim its not like they put in an aim bot. If you spam the body you still then have to go for the head and the person with better aim wins anyway because they will get to the head faster because they are there already. Stop whining.

Anyway, anyone else like the quick scope with the rocket? xD

Also related, Yay beaver creek and tiny ass bases. Getting a flag out of there is a bitch. I'm also glad they brought back the badass Needler melee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAd4l9oxcCA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16LAohqD8jw&feature=related

yes your right, you still aim but if i am shooting a lot faster(spamming) than someone who is pacing and i get a headshot when my bloom is full, that's luck/randomness and less skillful than a person who is pacing like they should and actually aiming for a point on someone's body. if you go back a few pages i explain bloom is good and in theory works like you say but in reach the bloom doesn't punish spammers and makes spammers(less skillful players) win battles because of luck.

i am not whining, this is a topic in open discussion to discuss the video that i posted and the changes displayed in the video. A comparison between what we see in the video and what is currently halo reach is very much on topic and opinions on the update and what people believe should be apart of the CONVERSATION in this thread that was posted in open CONVERSATION. i am making valid points which is far from whining. whining would be me only saying how much i dislike halo reach's bloom/ no bleedthrough without any reasons of why i dislike them.

now back on topic,

for bloom to work in halo reach it would need to expand much farther than the maximum that it does now. the odds of hitting someone when spamming are way to high and it effects gameplay and creates a lot of randomness. IDK about you guys but i like knowing the reason i died was because i was out skilled not out lucked.

Carpe Vexillum
08-18-2011, 08:39 PM
Complaining? LOL. Either way you still have to aim. There is no theory to aiming. I am not debating what type of bloom or what makes this bloom good or bad. Just no bloom. =p

Want an answer to your pacing problem? Be faster. If you have good aim and you fire fast your opponent will be dead. Don't pace yourself in a game with no bloom, that's just silly. =p

cCrisis
08-18-2011, 09:33 PM
Complaining? LOL. Either way you still have to aim. There is no theory to aiming. I am not debating what type of bloom or what makes this bloom good or bad. Just no bloom. =p

Want an answer to your pacing problem? Be faster. If you have good aim and you fire fast your opponent will be dead. Don't pace yourself in a game with no bloom, that's just silly. =p

also btw i am talking about bloom on the DMR, pistol and NR, bloom on non precision weapons like the AR and such shouldn't change, it makes much more sense on weapons like that and the bloom on those weapons don't cause randomness in what happens in each situation.

i agree that there is no theory to aiming but if your bullets can hit in an area and not in a specific place, your aim can only do so much. most times the person who paces their shots wins and they should because it's more skillful but too often in halo reach the person who spams gets lucky and 5 shots you when they should lose while the aiming by each opponent was equally as accurate.

when i was talking about theory, i was talking about the bloom. in theory when a game has bloom the person who paces there shots and lets there bloom reset while aiming at the opponent and hitting them with the shots should win the battle a very large majority of the time(at least 98% of the time in my opinion). bloom is a aspect of the game that adds depth or increases the things that need to be accounted for to be better than your opponent. if you master these techniques you will beat someone with the same aiming abilities who hasn't mastered the bloom. basically in theory bloom should increase the gap of skill between the worst and the best players. this is not the case in halo reach, the person who paces sometimes losses to the person who hasn't mastered the bloom and they get lucky with were the bullets went when the bloom was not reset. this is randomness and is not good for the game.

if i fought someone and spammed and i replayed the battle over and over with each player doing the exact same thing and aiming in the exact same places and shooting at the exact same times, the results would be different each time because the bullets have a random area they could hit when spamming. sometimes i would 5 shot them and sometimes i would not hit them once. its all about luck and luck prevails to much in reach. while the luck might only win every 1 in 5 battles or even less than that, it is way to much for my liking and i guess it's just opinion about how much luck you would like to experience in reach. if the bloom expanded to a much larger circle that would mean there is more area that the bullet could go, which means the odds are decreased for the spammer of getting the 5 shot.

while i would rather 343 make the bloom a little more consistent and decrease the luck that can happen with the current bloom, it is just not possible to do the testing that needs to be done for them to make sure they don't make it worse or not fix the problem. that's why i support no bloom, if they decide later to make the bloom like i described above and how many other games that have had bloom that were very successful at doing what bungie wanted the bloom to do, which was add depth/skill, i would be extremely happy.

please explain how not pacing in a game with no bloom is silly. halo 2 and 3 didn't have bloom on the BR and i and many others such as pros, shot at the rate of fire cap every shot.

i guess this could be considered complaining, but i am just discussing my opinion on the issue/debate of bloom in reach while adding some examples and making counter points to other individuals points on what they believe and many others have made counter points to my posts just like what you did in the post i am quoting.

Fiery Grave
08-18-2011, 11:56 PM
halo is about map movement and has always been, power weapons are placed on maps to force teams to move to get them or be punished for not. your basically saying i need to stay away from the other team or be herp-a-derp'd? in a close quarters environment(for example, i am on countdown and i am at the concussion rifle and someone sprints from the top small door (the door leading to the top health pack) and i shoot them 3 times and they just continue to sprint and we beatdown at the same time and we are on even health.) that is broken mechanics and unbalanced gameplay, it doesn't make logical sense for the two individuals to be at the same health after that situation when talking about balanced and fair gameplay.

3 problems with this
1. 3 concussion rifle shots take out some ones shields so the melee would kill them
2. concussion rifle shots slow down the enemy... they wouldn't even get half way to you in this situation cause a concussion rifle would stop the sprint.
3. concussion rifle is a support weapon and isn't the best at killing quickly.... like i said if you used an AR their shields would be down and you would be able to kill them

and again i hardly ever have this problem and when i do it really is ineffective, the part of the community that wants this is generally the MLG / highly competitive community. but those people are also largely have a hard time holstering the DMR and trying to use other weapons like the AR.... even the MLG playlist is so stripped of weapons its ridiculous...

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 12:12 AM
3 problems with this
1. 3 concussion rifle shots take out some ones shields so the melee would kill them
2. concussion rifle shots slow down the enemy... they wouldn't even get half way to you in this situation cause a concussion rifle would stop the sprint.
3. concussion rifle is a support weapon and isn't the best at killing quickly.... like i said if you used an AR their shields would be down and you would be able to kill them

and again i hardly ever have this problem and when i do it really is ineffective, the part of the community that wants this is generally the MLG / highly competitive community. but those people are also largely have a hard time holstering the DMR and trying to use other weapons like the AR.... even the MLG playlist is so stripped of weapons its ridiculous...

i am talking about DMR vs DMR, i guess i didn't state that. they won't be removing bloom from the normal non precision guns like the AR.

Fiery Grave
08-19-2011, 12:21 AM
i am talking about DMR vs DMR, i guess i didn't state that. they won't be removing bloom from the normal non precision guns like the AR.
which is even more stupid.... cause it completely makes the DMR even more overpowered.... there would be no need for the AR.... in the game its supposed to be "a gun for every situation" but it just makes it "the gun for every situation"... just like halo 3 it becomes a DMR (BR) fest

edit i also miss read your original post i thought it said you had the concussion rifle

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 12:30 AM
which is even more stupid.... cause it completely makes the DMR even more overpowered.... there would be no need for the AR.... in the game its supposed to be "a gun for every situation" but it just makes it "the gun for every situation"... just like halo 3 it becomes a DMR (BR) fest

edit i also miss read your original post i thought it said you had the concussion rifle

my opinion is the single weapon for everything is fun. h1 and h2 which are my favorite halo's were like this.

Fiery Grave
08-19-2011, 12:44 AM
my opinion is the single weapon for everything is fun. h1 and h2 which are my favorite halo's were like this.

halo 1 was not like that... the pistol was good but not that good....

bazongaman502
08-19-2011, 12:53 AM
there's a rate of fire cap...

proof?

Chances are there wont be, and even if there is, its gonna basically be who shot first and hit the other first... random shooting could/would cause some shots to miss... bloom is realistic and thats what alot of people want in their games... yes, this is sy-fi, however iv see hundreds if not thousands of people saying they want Halo more realistic... meaning Change... but its the fact when they get change.. they dont like it, in this case people dont like Bloom...

Thats 1 mistake, they would have fixed it, however Microsoft told them "no" since their contract ended in January and 343 was already moving along and planned to fix it... you relize theres going to be more people hating it, if it happens... and im gonna be one of them and it will ruin Halo Reach in my opinion... i hated Halo 3 because of no bloom... if a guy shoots me just a split second before i shoot him, 99% of the time he/she will beat me... in reach, its a 50-50... so what if theres "luck"... "luck" is in every game out there, same goes for randomness...

Tell you the truth, im seriously thinking twice of buying Halo CEA now just because they will remove it

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 01:23 AM
proof?

Chances are there wont be, and even if there is, its gonna basically be who shot first and hit the other first... random shooting could/would cause some shots to miss... bloom is realistic and thats what alot of people want in their games... yes, this is sy-fi, however iv see hundreds if not thousands of people saying they want Halo more realistic... meaning Change... but its the fact when they get change.. they dont like it, in this case people dont like Bloom...

Thats 1 mistake, they would have fixed it, however Microsoft told them "no" since their contract ended in January and 343 was already moving along and planned to fix it... you relize theres going to be more people hating it, if it happens... and im gonna be one of them and it will ruin Halo Reach in my opinion... i hated Halo 3 because of no bloom... if a guy shoots me just a split second before i shoot him, 99% of the time he/she will beat me... in reach, its a 50-50... so what if theres "luck"... "luck" is in every game out there, same goes for randomness...

Tell you the truth, im seriously thinking twice of buying Halo CEA now just because they will remove it

OK i am going to say this again.

343 is not changing ANYTHING that will drastically change gameplay. they said this a few weeks back in a post on there forums, they said they might tweak a few things like grenade physics but they are not going to make it to were your like "WTF the nades are 1000000x different." the bloom and things like this are going to be CUSTOMIZATION OPTIONS. the team classic playlist will have no bloom for precision weapons and bleed through damage like the classic halo's had. but most the other playlists will be the same as you know now.

343 is just trying to make everyone happy and honestly bungie failed at this, these option should have been in the game from the start. halo reach has been controversial from day 1 because it's so different from the rest of the halo's but bungie said "no! our way or the highway" instead of adding a few customization options which i don't think take that much time to make.

I've also stated before that luck and randomness cannot be eliminated, but decreasing the luck and randomness as much as you can makes a game better IMO. halo 3 was a really crappy game tbh, the strafe was easy to follow and a lot of it came down to the luck involved with the bullet spread with halo 3's br. i posted a video a few pages back showing the difference between halo 2's br and halo 3's and how even with perfect aim and the guy not moving you would have to 5 to 6 shot even when zoomed in and halo 2's br was a 4 shot like it should be.


shoot your dmr as fast as you can, it only goes so fast, not as fast as you can squeeze the trigger. i hope they make the rate of fire cap a lot slower than it is now, if they don't the DMR will be as godly as people are afraid of lol.

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 01:38 AM
halo 1 was not like that... the pistol was good but not that good....

halo 1 pistol was a 3 shot kill and shot faster than the DMR per bullet. watch this video with people who know how to use the pistol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk_txqiPhlo&feature=fvst

Fiery Grave
08-19-2011, 02:18 AM
halo 1 pistol was a 3 shot kill and shot faster than the DMR per bullet. watch this video with people who know how to use the pistol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk_txqiPhlo&feature=fvst

but the pistol didn't have the range of the BR or DMR... also it would lose close quarters to AR or plasma rifle

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 02:31 AM
but the pistol didn't have the range of the BR or DMR... also it would lose close quarters to AR or plasma rifle

people 3 shot cross map all the time........ and anything other than up in your face the pistol owned.....

Guzzie
08-19-2011, 02:34 AM
people 3 shot cross map all the time........ and anything other than up in your face the pistol owned.....

you could still 3 shot a kid right in front of you. If you could use the H1 pistol right, you could destroy a kid with an assault rifle right in front of you. And you could 3 kids cross map.

RetRdidMunkie
08-19-2011, 03:50 AM
Lack of bloom= better.

Makes individual skill matter more now, cuz the bloom in reach was fuckin retarded..

bazongaman502
08-19-2011, 04:39 AM
Lack of bloom= better.

Makes individual skill matter more now, cuz the bloom in reach was fuckin retarded..

how was their no skill in Reach?

and dont say randomness or "luck"... heard that excuse far to many times and has yet to be backed up

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 04:47 AM
how was their no skill in Reach?

and dont say randomness or "luck"... heard that excuse far to many times and has yet to be backed up

i have backed it up many times, please read my 4 pages of wall's of text.

L0rd Kanti
08-19-2011, 10:34 AM
I want to Play Halo, you want to play Reach. Understandable, now its giving us the choice as it should of from the beginning. As for things being canon, multiplayer isnt canon.
So ill leave all that in the campaign, books, and other media for halo.

Fiery Grave
08-19-2011, 11:06 AM
I want to Play Halo, you want to play Reach. Understandable, now its giving us the choice as it should of from the beginning. As for things being canon, multiplayer isnt canon.
So ill leave all that in the campaign, books, and other media for halo.

i never talked about cannon... i was talking about the way it was meant to be from the begging... the way the first halo was supposed to be.

The halo 1 pistol was over powered and bungie even admitted it, they also stated it was an accident where the testing version of the pistol left in the game, which had about 2-3X the dam it should.... but at the same time it wasn't that bad... whenever i played multiplayer it was not that big a deal if some one had a pistol cause they couldn't kill you that easily if you also had the skill to dodge it

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 03:52 PM
i never talked about cannon... i was talking about the way it was meant to be from the begging... the way the first halo was supposed to be.

The halo 1 pistol was over powered and bungie even admitted it, they also stated it was an accident where the testing version of the pistol left in the game, which had about 2-3X the dam it should.... but at the same time it wasn't that bad... whenever i played multiplayer it was not that big a deal if some one had a pistol cause they couldn't kill you that easily if you also had the skill to dodge it

it was one of bungies greatest mistakes to have a 3 shot pistol =p


and the thing about the pistol that made it great was, it was something that was extremely hard to master, but if mastered it was the best weapon in 90% of all situations.

bazongaman502
08-19-2011, 05:33 PM
i have backed it up many times, please read my 4 pages of wall's of text.

(in my opinion) you havent had a valid argument...

So your telling me that (hypothetically speaking) the Greatest Soldire in the entire world whent into a fight all by himself and was going against multiple "horrible" soldires, that he (The Greatest) Soldire would always win? no, Luck is found everywhere removing it wont solve anything...

And then you also said "They aren't REMOVING bloom, there just fixing it"... then you said the percision weapons will be the ones that are fixed, but the close ranged ones wont be (either you said this or someone else did.. im to lazy to look again lol)... anyways, what would be the point? For a long distance percision weapon, you are to "time your shots all the time" thats a basic forumal used in gaming and real-life... the long distance weapons will turn into "who can pull the trigger faster and have little aim"... while the close range weapons will still be either "paced" or a "a full clip shot, but the trigger only pulled once"... making the close range keeping some sort of skill while the long range skill is gone completely... seriously think about that for a minute... im not arguing, but the fact of removing or "tweaking" bloom would be a mistake

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 07:30 PM
(in my opinion) you havent had a valid argument...

So your telling me that (hypothetically speaking) the Greatest Soldire in the entire world whent into a fight all by himself and was going against multiple "horrible" soldires, that he (The Greatest) Soldire would always win? no, Luck is found everywhere removing it wont solve anything...

And then you also said "They aren't REMOVING bloom, there just fixing it"... then you said the percision weapons will be the ones that are fixed, but the close ranged ones wont be (either you said this or someone else did.. im to lazy to look again lol)... anyways, what would be the point? For a long distance percision weapon, you are to "time your shots all the time" thats a basic forumal used in gaming and real-life... the long distance weapons will turn into "who can pull the trigger faster and have little aim"... while the close range weapons will still be either "paced" or a "a full clip shot, but the trigger only pulled once"... making the close range keeping some sort of skill while the long range skill is gone completely... seriously think about that for a minute... im not arguing, but the fact of removing or "tweaking" bloom would be a mistake

please re-read what i have posted. no-bloom will be a customization option and i believe 343 decided to do this because of the limited time they had to do the title update for CEA. the bloom as it is now allows for spamming if they tweaked it like i have stated to where the circle of the bloom got larger than it does now but reset fast. then the bloom would reset at the same times but if someone decides to spam they would be hitting much farther away from the center of the circle and have much less odds of hitting the opponent when not spamming. this would be the same way at long range and just add timing and aim to kill people not just aim.


i am saying in a 1 v 1 situation that the best soldier should win 98% of the time and not lose from a luck person who spams them.

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 07:50 PM
here is a great example of how the bloom does not work properly:

notice how the guy he is shooting at is standing still and spamming senceless and the player is actually slowing down his shots and it doesn't kill the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4syenDuSc&feature=player_embedded

Silko
08-19-2011, 07:56 PM
here is a great idea of how the bloom does not work properly:

notice how the guy he is shooting at is standing still and spamming senceless and he is actually slowing down his shots and it doesn't kill the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd4syenDuSc&feature=player_embedded

He misses half of his shots due to lack of aim not bloom and when he was aiming for the head he was spamming more then the other guy causing his bloom to be maxed. If he had slowed down he would have killed him. The other stood still and fired SLOWER then the other guy once his shields where gone.

cCrisis
08-19-2011, 07:58 PM
He misses half of his shots due to lack of aim not bloom and when he was aiming for the head he was spamming more then the other guy causing his bloom to be maxed. If he had slowed down he would have killed him. The other stood still and fired SLOWER then the other guy once his shields where gone.

are you kiding me? the guy stand still and spams as fast as possible and the guy your watching slows is shots down when the guy was no shields. he wasn't waiting for it to full reset but he was shooting way slower than the guy not moving.

Silko
08-19-2011, 08:03 PM
Bro you should watch the video again when the video maker took out the other guys shields he started spamming. the OTHER guy slowed down his shots when the video maker shields where down after the spam.

Silko
08-19-2011, 08:06 PM
In CQC you can spam the DMR effectively to get the shields down but once you need to get the final head shot you got to slow down. Taking away bloom will take away the skill needed to long shot people across the map and make it even easier to SPAM IN CQC. At this point I feel you don't care about the bloom you just don't want anyone to be able to kill you and you will complain about ANYTHING that will get you killed. When bloom is gone you will complain about spammers across the map and CQC.

L0rd Kanti
08-19-2011, 08:46 PM
are you kiding me? the guy stand still and spams as fast as possible and the guy your watching slows is shots down when the guy was no shields. he wasn't waiting for it to full reset but he was shooting way slower than the guy not moving.

You can spam as fast as you want when crouched, reticule resets faster when crouched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKLpWvHWVBI

Twitch
08-19-2011, 08:48 PM
honestly its all pointless arguement. Either way it goes there are valuable reasons why it should stay the same and valuable reasons it should go...It's just one of those things to not get to worked up about.