Halo: Reach Title Update

[zZ Dr K Zz]

Well, it looks like 343 Industries is going to ruin what Bungie did right.

http://www.trueachievements.com/n5209/halo-reach-title-update-coming-in-october.htm

"The team at 343i has been hard at work on an update for “Halo: Reach” both to bring new experiences to fans as well as address longstanding feedback from the community. The most noticeable change in the works? The return of the wicked, deadly and wildly fun “Halo: Combat Evolved” Magnum pistol to “Halo: Anniversary” and “Halo: Reach” multiplayer gameplay. An addition that will be supported in special, classic playlists, the original Magnum pistol is sure to rekindle some of the madness and carnage players reveled in a decade ago.

In addition, the update, which is targeted for release in October, will introduce several multiplayer fixes for “Halo: Reach” fans have been clamoring for. Armor Lock now absorbs a level of damage based on the amount of remaining energy a player has, diminishing its effectiveness. Active Camo’s duration has been reduced and the ability to block sword attacks using any weapon other than another sword has been disabled. And for fans of precision firing, reticule “bloom” is now configurable, delivering increased accuracy when firing in rapid succession.

This update will also enable “Halo: Reach” players using an Xbox 360 4GB console without a HDD to utilize Campaign and Firefight matchmaking which previously required a HDD."

Nerfing Active Camo and Armor Lock? Really? It's not as bad as people make it out to be.

And fixing bloom is a dumb idea.

It seems like 343 would like to suck up to all the people that complain on the Halo forums. I guess a nice cold glass of whine goes a long way.

I'm worried about the MP for Halo 4 now.

[Maxdoggy]

Me too. I saw this a while back and posted it on the Twitter Feed and I facepalmed.

[An Uncouth Man]

The last part made me happy considering I don't have a hard drive. I don't like armor lock or active camo, so that's good too. Fixing bloom isn't the right way to go, and I kind of like being able to block sword attacks, so I'm not too happy about those two. Overall this isn't a bad update, really. I kinda like it.

[Carpe Vexillum]

Bandwagon. Yuppie. If you loved the original Halo you'll love the update. Bungie fudged with Reach, and that's what EVERYONE said a month or two after it came out and before. And now that there is something new to bitch about all you people have to go tear it apart.

SAVE THE BS, you know your still going to play it. And if not, have fun on Black Ops LUL *trollface*

[Fiery Grave]

Bandwagon. Yuppie. If you loved the original Halo you'll love the update. Bungie fudged with Reach, and that's what EVERYONE said a month or two after it came out and before. And now that there is something new to bitch about all you people have to go tear it apart.

SAVE THE BS, you know your still going to play it. And if not, have fun on Black Ops LUL *trollface*

please don't put words in our mouths................ I have felt, since the start, that reach was closest to what the feeling of halo CE was compared to other halo games. This update spells nothing but catering to the whiners of the game... the people just just accept this like bloom and armor lock and learn to accept them and work with them... there are a large number of people who feel the same way.... its just that when you like something you don't go out of your way to say you like it, but when you don't like something you (not as in you personally but each individual) complain about it.... sure its not perfect but no game is, and you have to accept that and work around it

[Gargoyle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought these would be adjusted in different gametypes? If you don't like these changes, just don't play certain gametypes.

[Spartanbh]

Obviously 343 never heard of the phrase "if it isn't broke, don't fix it". The only thing I kind of like is the armor lock because it is so overly used that there has to be SOME miniscule way to get around it. But reducing active camo is gonna piss me off cause that is the only ability I use. I feel Bungie's Halo: Reach was developed extremely well and added balance to most things. 343 is definitely catering to the minority of MLG assholes and butthurt whiners who haven't been able to adjust to a slightly improved Halo gameplay since Halo 2. When you come out with new games, the objective is not to have the gameplay exactly the same because if so, you're basically just making the previous game 1.5, such as ALL THE CALL OF DUTY SERIES THAT PLAY EXACTLY THE SAME ASIDE FROM THE VERY FEW PERKS AND WEAPONS ADDED EACH YEAR. Halo has made huge strides every year to add new things and a somewhat different but also nostalgic feel each game. This update is gonna fuck what Bungie wanted to leave with and is going to turn HALO into another CoD wannabe. I want to play Halo: Reach, not Halo: CE's multiplayer, not Halo 2's MLG multiplayer, and not Halo 3's multiplayer. I want to play Halo: Reach's intended multiplayer.

[Foehammer]

I think Reach was perfection. Halo CEA better be perfection too, this game will set the tone of how 343 makes their games from here on out. Bungie got it right, 343 has to keep the flame going.

[Silko]

Removing the bloom is the single most RETARDED thing that 343 spark could have done. Basically 343 has given that all the cry baby's that suck ass what they wanted and the dick headed MLG people what they wanted but bent over the middle guy. I may only get Halo CE because of the Campaign now, if I really REALLY want it. 343 if this is the performance that you are going to have I am truly terrified about Halo 4, 5, and 6. (Which btw in my opinion shouldn't be done, leave Halo the way it was.)

[Vestige]

The bloom is what make reach ballanced fucking MLG kids crying..., active cammo does not need to be nerfed anyfurther, armour lock good nerft it make it disableable, and the 3 shot magnum in MP okay not in reach please yea CEA but... not reach.

[Nocte]

343 is now IW. They listen to all of the bitches how aren't good at the game and are giving them ways to make them play better. Reach was fine, AL is balanced. Take it out of playlists that aren't BTB and Invasion. The AA was mean't to protect you from vehicles. Not foot soldiers, so why the flying fuck was it ever put into a 4v4 gametype?

Active Camo is easy to spot as is, so lowering the time you have to stay hidden means that the AA will be useless.

Bloom isn't broken, people just can't adjust so they bitch.....

FUCKING WOOT OP PISTOL! Now can we please have our sexii 60 round bullet hose MA5B back?! Please!

[Hazy]

So, essentially, fanservice.

Thoughts:

1.DMR spamming city. Remember how the shots had to be paced to be effective due to the bloom? And how it's essentially a semi-auto gun when you spam it? Without bloom the DMR is going to be worse of an overpowered weapon than the BR (at least in H3 you had to learn how to lead your shots a little. Reach's aiming mechanic is just...point and shoot. Better have a fast trigger finger and a good strafe, buds.) Now that I think about it, it's kinda like a sniper with a bigger mag and bigger fire rate.

2. Why...in the hell....would you nerf CAMO? It was perfect! Nothing about it was overpowered. At all. People were just pissed off because those who werent good enough with it ran around in half-visibility hoping for the radar jammer to leave them protected, suprised when thousands of enemy bullets start to make camp in his brain lining. The only thing that would suck is when a camo sniper would make an untimely appearance in a map or something...but we all hate that guy anyways.

3. Armor lock now became a portable oversheild....interesting . I'll have to see that mechanic for myself.

4. Sword is now the ultimate melee weapon yet again. I freaking loved blocking off the attacks, too....

5. Bloom, again (sorry). By configurable, do they mean they can go from full bloom and adjust it all the way down to none? They DO know we're all going to be forced to choose the latter whether we like or not, right?

6. Bringing back the jesus gun from H:CE? Put that alongside the mini-sniper weapons.


For the love of god someone needs to be telling me that this was one GIANT troll session and that none of it was real. Because if it is, come October, I will not be found on the reach servers for a very long time.

Apologies for the wall of text in advance.

[cCrisis]

343 is now IW. They listen to all of the bitches how aren't good at the game and are giving them ways to make them play better. Reach was fine, AL is balanced. Take it out of playlists that aren't BTB and Invasion. The AA was mean't to protect you from vehicles. Not foot soldiers, so why the flying fuck was it ever put into a 4v4 gametype?

Active Camo is easy to spot as is, so lowering the time you have to stay hidden means that the AA will be useless.

Bloom isn't broken, people just can't adjust so they bitch.....

FUCKING WOOT OP PISTOL! Now can we please have our sexii 60 round bullet hose MA5B back?! Please!

a lot of the things in the title update are just creating more options for people to choose from such as messing with setting to make the pistol like halo 1 and taking out bloom and the bleed through damage. Think about your arguement, you basically saying "Fuck 343 for making more people happy by adding in choices to what they can play" HALO HAS ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THIS and 343 is only making it better.

there a top pro's in MLG and even players who are very skilled who will tell you bloom is broken and honestly it hurts the better players. it's not that they haven't adjusted, it the fact that it allows for luck.

They also stated at Halo Fest that the Rate of fire is going to be adjusted so that you can fire a little faster than what it takes for the bloom to fully reset now. basically if it takes 5 seconds to kill someone with the bloom resetting before every shot. it is going to take 4.5 seconds to kill someone with the rate of fire cape they are implementing(i'm just throwing out random numbers for example purposes). with how fast paced halo reach is compared to halo 3, the fastest possible kill time with the precision weapons should be decreased slightly. it's way to easy for someone to just run and hide before you can kill them because it takes a while to hit a 5 shot not spamming.

[Nocte]

there a top pro's in MLG and even players who are very skilled who will tell you bloom is broken and honestly it hurts the better players. it's not that they haven't adjusted, it the fact that it allows for luck.

Thats hit-scan for you, bloom isn't broken. Hit-scan isn't broken either, it's designed to be that way. It isn't luck it's how the hit-scan system works.

[bazongaman502]

heres my question about this keep/remove setting for "bloom"... so one can have bloom while the other doesnt??? which will lead to the person without bloom would easily win... causing everyone (but me, ill still always use bloom becuase its way better then without) to remove "bloom", which will lead to 343 removing "bloom" all-together...

People ask for changes, yet struggle to "adapt"... so they look for the easy way out, then will demand for more "change" in the future... Please leave Reach as is... dont like it?... The Halo 3 servers are still up... go play it

[cCrisis]

Thats hit-scan for you, bloom isn't broken. Hit-scan isn't broken either, it's designed to be that way. It isn't luck it's how the hit-scan system works.

uhh i think you missunderstand what hitscan is? (not trying to be a ass but hitscan is 1000000000000000000000000 0000x better)

[Hazy]

heres my question about this keep/remove setting for "bloom"... so one can have bloom while the other doesnt??? which will lead to the person without bloom would easily win... causing everyone (but me, ill still always use bloom becuase its way better then without) to remove "bloom", which will lead to 343 removing "bloom" all-together...

People ask for changes, yet struggle to "adapt"... so they look for the easy way out, then will demand for more "change" in the future... Please leave Reach as is... dont like it?... The Halo 3 servers are still up... go play it

My point exactly.

[Nocte]

uhh i think you missunderstand what hitscan is? (not trying to be a ass but hitscan is 1000000000000000000000000 0000x better)

Lol no it isn't, CoD uses Hit-Scan..... Every weapon in Call of Duty uses it. Whether firing from the hip or aiming down the sites. The same concept goes for the Bloom in Reach.

Hit-Scan blows it is far from realistic and makes the game less skilled......

[cCrisis]

heres my question about this keep/remove setting for "bloom"... so one can have bloom while the other doesnt??? which will lead to the person without bloom would easily win... causing everyone (but me, ill still always use bloom becuase its way better then without) to remove "bloom", which will lead to 343 removing "bloom" all-together...

People ask for changes, yet struggle to "adapt"... so they look for the easy way out, then will demand for more "change" in the future... Please leave Reach as is... dont like it?... The Halo 3 servers are still up... go play it

nooooooooooo, the bloom is going to be match specific. basically it's like changing the damage setting's or the health settings. it effects everyone in the game the same.

halo has always been about customization and that is honestly one of the reason it has been so successful. you can customize the health settings, the damage setting, speed setting you name it, it can be customized and every single game in the series has added more customization. shit you can even customize the maps.

something such as bloom and bleed through which are not like the tradition halo's should be a option so that everyone can have fun.

[bazongaman502]

@cCrisis.... just think about this...

a US Army sniper is about to shoot his target in the head between the eyes (the perfect shot).... he pulls the trigger... now does the bullet go right where he wanted it? no, its going to be a little to the side, or a little high or a little low (this is also depending on distance from the target)... its kinda what bloom is.... not every shot is going to be 100% accurate....

heres another example...

a US Army Sniper is about to shoot a target board thats about 200 yards away.... he scopes in and the crosshairs are on the center of the target... he rapidly pulls the trigger... did all bullets hits the board? Chances are not... even if he did, they are scattered around pn the board, never on the same spot...

This is exactly why i like bloom and Battlefield lol

[Nocte]

@cCrisis.... just think about this...

a US Army sniper is about to shoot his target in the head between the eyes (the perfect shot).... he pulls the trigger... now does the bullet go right where he wanted it? no, its going to be a little to the side, or a little high or a little low (this is also depending on distance from the target)... its kinda what bloom is.... not every shot is going to be 100% accurate....

heres another example...

a US Army Sniper is about to shoot a target board thats about 200 yards away.... he scopes in and the crosshairs are on the center of the target... he rapidly pulls the trigger... did all bullets hits the board? Chances are not... even if he did, they are scattered around pn the board, never on the same spot...

This is exactly why i like bloom and Battlefield lol

That doesn't apply mainly because you never shoot those distances in Reach, plus you are a super human soldier. Another thing is that so many years in the future I think they would design weapons to have less recoil.

Either way however your point does get across pretty well.

[bazongaman502]

That doesn't apply mainly because you never shoot those distances in Reach, plus you are a super human soldier. Another thing is that so many years in the future I think they would design weapons to have less recoil.

Either way however your point does get across pretty well.

just a modern day example... one people can understand

[cCrisis]

Lol no it isn't, CoD uses Hit-Scan..... Every weapon in Call of Duty uses it. Whether firing from the hip or aiming down the sites. The same concept goes for the Bloom in Reach.

Hit-Scan blows it is far from realistic and makes the game less skilled......

ok well i am not going to get into this argument, but i am going to state a few things. cod doesn't blow because of hit-scan, there many other factors that help make it suck. the problem with the realistic part is this. your not holding a gun in real life, your holding a controller, the ability to judge the distance and bullet travel time and gravity effecting a bullet is far from as accurate as in when holding a gun. add in latency from online and it creates sloppy gameplay. could you imagine if you were firing a gun IRL that suddenly the rules of gravity or travel time of a bullet changing constantly? latency is basically changing something that is in theory constant such as the speed of a bullet. halo 3 was fun on LAN but online it was a pain and honestly 10000000000000000% based on connection. if i had host and a good connection i could out BR a pro from any distance farther than 2 feet in front of me. many people blame the netcoding for the shitty online registration on halo 3 but honestly it was the lack of hit-scan and the problems that latency and non hitscan.

something being like real life in a game isn't going to work the same as in real life because it's a virtual world.

the one thing about hitscan is that it is consistent which non hitscan does not have.

[bazongaman502]

your not holding a gun in real life, your holding a controller, the ability to judge the distance and bullet travel time and gravity effecting a bullet is far from as accurate as in when holding a gun. add in latency from online and it creates sloppy gameplay. could you imagine if you were firing a gun IRL that suddenly the rules of gravity or travel time of a bullet changing constantly? latency is basically changing something that is in theory constant such as the speed of a bullet.

uhhhh... Battlefield does it... You try to snipe someone far away from you, you have to shoot above them becuase the bullet eventually dropps... and when they are moving, you have to shoot infront of them... anyways, Bloom is fine and people just complain because they get out DMR'ed due to (what they call) "luck".... theres luck everywhere... you cant get rid of it... heres one that will never go away:

You being shot at and are litterally a 1 shot, but the guy is so far away and has to reload that you can turn a courner and heal.... <--- thats luck.... its everywhere lol

im going to sleep... to sum up with everything i have/would say is "bloom is fine... Reach is fine... adapt or go back to Halo 3... its kinda what most of you want anyways" lol

[cCrisis]

@cCrisis.... just think about this...

a US Army sniper is about to shoot his target in the head between the eyes (the perfect shot).... he pulls the trigger... now does the bullet go right where he wanted it? no, its going to be a little to the side, or a little high or a little low (this is also depending on distance from the target)... its kinda what bloom is.... not every shot is going to be 100% accurate....

heres another example...

a US Army Sniper is about to shoot a target board thats about 200 yards away.... he scopes in and the crosshairs are on the center of the target... he rapidly pulls the trigger... did all bullets hits the board? Chances are not... even if he did, they are scattered around pn the board, never on the same spot...

This is exactly why i like bloom and Battlefield lol

IF you have shot a gun with a scope that is aimed in the exact same place the margin of difference is a few centimeters if not milimeters. the Dmr bloom is more like a few feet off and could be compared to shooting a musket during the civil war. think about a bunch of people standing in a line shooting at another line of people and being hopeful that they hit something.

your second example your basically saying if you spam the shit out of a gun than were it hits the target is all luck?

I don't want to play halo civil reach war with a designated marksmanship musket.

^^you that is funny, i am laughing so hard at that.

hitscan on the other hand is a different argument. non hitscan is fine when playing on LAN and actually i would prefer it not be hitscan on LAN but online it's makes it far from realistic. constant changes in latency makes it impossible to accurately judge where your shot will hit and this is why i don't like non hitscan. the problem is most of us play online and making a game for LAN play is not going to directly transfer well to playing online. when i shoot, i want to know were my shots are going to hit, it's as simple as that. if that means i have to make calculation than so be it but i can't take into account latency. it's not a visable or sensible factor.

[Nocte]

something being like real life in a game isn't going to work the same as in real life because it's a virtual world.

the one thing about hitscan is that it is consistent which non hitscan does not have.

I know all of this, I've read my fair share of articles on Hit-Scan. You say that Hit-Scan is consistent yet the DMR uses it and you say the bloom gives the chance of luck?

Also Battlefield games do not use hit-scan (anymore at least) they use physical bullets. They run on dedicated servers though, which is something that CoD and Halo have yet to do....

In comparison to a game that uses physical bullets correctly, and a game that uses hit-scan. Physical bullets win by a land-slide. They add a more skillful playing style to the game, where as hit-scan robs that skill because a player doesn't have to think before shooting. They can just shoot and hit whatever the hell they are aiming at. This allow shows how hit-scan means less recoil.... Which means that weapons in games because lasers. Look at the an AR from BF:BC2 and compare it to an AR from MW2. The BF AR has more recoil fires physical bullets and takes more skill to use, where as the MW2 AR is just a point and shoot weapon.

Hit-Scan over-all is a cheap way for game companies to take away from the main aspect of a FPS how the weapons fire, to add more detail into how the damn game looks.


IF you have shot a gun with a scope that is aimed in the exact same place the margin of difference is a few centimeters if not milimeters. the Dmr bloom is more like a few feet off and could be compared to shooting a musket during the civil war. think about a bunch of people standing in a line shooting at another line of people and being hopeful that they hit something.

your second example your basically saying if you spam the shit out of a gun than were it hits the target is all luck?

I don't want to play halo civil reach war with a designated marksmanship musket.

^^you that is funny, i am laughing so hard at that.

hitscan on the other hand is a different argument. non hitscan is fine when playing on LAN and actually i would prefer it not be hitscan on LAN but online it's makes it far from realistic. constant changes in latency makes it impossible to accurately judge where your shot will hit and this is why i don't like non hitscan. the problem is most of us play online and making a game for LAN play is not going to directly transfer well to playing online. when i shoot, i want to know were my shots are going to hit, it's as simple as that. if that means i have to make calculation than so be it but i can't take into account latency. it's not a visable or sensible factor.

I don't think you understand why Bloom is put into Reach, bloom is the equivalent of recoil. Bazonga's example of spamming the trigger really fast to very accurate to how the DMR works in Reach. Everytime you fire a shot the weapon kicks back thus making the gun slightly less accurate as you fire rounds, now if you wait after each shot (pacing shots) you won't have the issue of having your weapon fire inaccurately.

As for not having pin-point accuracy on your first shot, thats kinda how a weapon works. Unless you are not moving and your weapon have a set up bi-pod you won't fire pin-point accurately.

Reach added some realism to the game, because Spartan-III's aren't the Spartan-II's.

Luck isn't a factor in this game, I am sorry if you think it is then I really can't argue with you over this subject. You are replacing the realism with "luck" and that means that you have no clue how a weapon really fires.

[Hazy]

So....bloom addition is going to be a game option?

It'll be hard to adjust between the two in games, but you know what? I like that. Nice compromise, 343.

But that's assuming your statement is correct, crisis. If it turns out the removal of bloom is a controller adjustment option or just removed altogether, my thoughts on it will still be as I stated in my last comment.

I only have one thing to say about this whole "hit scan" thing: different games use different mechanics to work. Battlefield aims for realism, and thus focuses on more realistic shooting. Halo is an arcade shooter, and focuses on somewhat...chaotic (if you call it that) gameplay.

The point is neither mechanics are inferior or obsolete, they just fill different purposes. I for one just try to adapt as I switch between the two as I go throughout my games (in all honesty I don't care too much about what mechanic they use, so long as it WORKS)

[cCrisis]

uhhhh... Battlefield does it... You try to snipe someone far away from you, you have to shoot above them becuase the bullet eventually dropps... and when they are moving, you have to shoot infront of them... anyways, Bloom is fine and people just complain because they get out DMR'ed due to (what they call) "luck".... theres luck everywhere... you cant get rid of it... heres one that will never go away:

You being shot at and are litterally a 1 shot, but the guy is so far away and has to reload that you can turn a courner and heal.... <--- thats luck.... its everywhere lol

im going to sleep... to sum up with everything i have/would say is "bloom is fine... Reach is fine... adapt or go back to Halo 3... its kinda what most of you want anyways" lol

your example is not luck. that would be a lack of awarness by the opponent. you could say the fact that your opponent missed his headshot with a sniper as luck but it's a lack of skill at the time he shot the sniper. it was an error made by the opponent not luck.

while we consider a 360 no-scope luck it's not necessarily luck because you can see the opponent, your cross-hair and you squeezed the trigger when you felt the time was right (it would be a very increased level of skill that that time). if you were blindfolded and no-scoped him than that would be luck.

If it is possible to do 100% of the time than it is not luck. you can in theory no-scope someone every time when you do a 360 and shoot. but your level of skill would be off the charts to actually pull it off. you hitting the shot and missing the shot is 100% based on you moving the joystick and pulling the trigger and the other players in the game, it has nothing to do with the game mechanics it's self.

bloom on the other hand you cannot spam as fast as possible and hit every shot every single time you shoot. it's luck and based on a random factor added into the game by the developers. the problem with this is that the odds for the spammer are to great. i have shoot as fast as possible and hit 5 shots from a far distance while the other player who is pacing like they should be hit me 2 or 3 times because there shooting slower. me hitting the 5 shots was 1000% luck because the game could have decided for my bullet to go somewhere else which would have not hit him. was i the player who had properly adjusted to bloom or not? was i the more skilled player or the less skilled player?

[cCrisis]

So....bloom addition is going to be a game option?

It'll be hard to adjust between the two in games, but you know what? I like that. Nice compromise, 343.

But that's assuming your statement is correct, crisis. If it turns out the removal of bloom is a controller adjustment option or just removed altogether, my thoughts on it will still be as I stated in my last comment.

I only have one thing to say about this whole "hit scan" thing: different games use different mechanics to work. Battlefield aims for realism, and thus focuses on more realistic shooting. Halo is an arcade shooter, and focuses on somewhat...chaotic (if you call it that) gameplay.

The point is neither mechanics are inferior or obsolete, they just fill different purposes. I for one just try to adapt as I switch between the two as I go throughout my games (in all honesty I don't care too much about what mechanic they use, so long as it WORKS)

343 has stated a billion times that it will be a game option.

[bazongaman502]

so what would you want...

Bloom removed

or

Bloom removed, but the guns have a recoil

or keep Bloom

???

[cCrisis]

I know all of this, I've read my fair share of articles on Hit-Scan. You say that Hit-Scan is consistent yet the DMR uses it and you say the bloom gives the chance of luck?

Also Battlefield games do not use hit-scan (anymore at least) they use physical bullets. They run on dedicated servers though, which is something that CoD and Halo have yet to do....

In comparison to a game that uses physical bullets correctly, and a game that uses hit-scan. Physical bullets win by a land-slide. They add a more skillful playing style to the game, where as hit-scan robs that skill because a player doesn't have to think before shooting. They can just shoot and hit whatever the hell they are aiming at. This allow shows how hit-scan means less recoil.... Which means that weapons in games because lasers. Look at the an AR from BF:BC2 and compare it to an AR from MW2. The BF AR has more recoil fires physical bullets and takes more skill to use, where as the MW2 AR is just a point and shoot weapon.

Hit-Scan over-all is a cheap way for game companies to take away from the main aspect of a FPS how the weapons fire, to add more detail into how the damn game looks.



I don't think you understand why Bloom is put into Reach, bloom is the equivalent of recoil. Bazonga's example of spamming the trigger really fast to very accurate to how the DMR works in Reach. Everytime you fire a shot the weapon kicks back thus making the gun slightly less accurate as you fire rounds, now if you wait after each shot (pacing shots) you won't have the issue of having your weapon fire inaccurately.

As for not having pin-point accuracy on your first shot, thats kinda how a weapon works. Unless you are not moving and your weapon have a set up bi-pod you won't fire pin-point accurately.

Reach added some realism to the game, because Spartan-III's aren't the Spartan-II's.

Luck isn't a factor in this game, I am sorry if you think it is then I really can't argue with you over this subject. You are replacing the realism with "luck" and that means that you have no clue how a weapon really fires.

uhg. the reason bullets become less accurate in real life in not because of the gun it's self it's because of the lack of control on the part of person holding the gun. if i put a gun into something that prevents it from moving anywhere than it will be 100% accurate. when you shoot a gun IRL you can feel the recoil and can easily adjust accordingly and have a sense to where your next shot is going to hit. in reach your gun could recoil up and your shot would go down? you have no general idea where the bullet will go.

while i fully understand how the bloom works. its not that it doesn't do what was intended. the problem is that shooting fast and being very inaccurate can get you a kill. which means where your bullet went was somewhere random inside of the circle that is fully expanded and about a inch in diameter. if the tip of the guys head was barely inside of the circle on the bottom side of the circle and you got the kill than it was luck. your bullet could have went up or left or right or not as far down. it was luck that at that time the game decided your bullet would go down.

please explain this as not being luck.

[cCrisis]

so what would you want...

Bloom removed

or

Bloom removed, but the guns have a recoil

or keep Bloom

???

bloom that didn't allow for someone to spam and kill me on a regular basis. the circle for the bloom doesn't expand very far and allows me to put there head in the center of the circle and hope my bullet decides to go where his head is at in the circle. but the thing is i am shooting much faster while they might be pacing. i would shoot 5 inaccurate bullets and they would shoot like 3 accurate bullets. if i get lucky too where my bullets go within the circle i get a 5 shot and he is left feeling stupid for trying to use the bloom correctly.

the problem with that is, it takes a very long time to test and too make it work and be balanced with the rest of the game.

so i would rather no bloom than a broken bloom.

[GhostHammer]

I said it when 343 took over Halo, I'll say it again...

The Halo series died when it left Bungie's hands and went to 343.

[cCrisis]

I said it when 343 took over Halo, I'll say it again...

The Halo series died when it left Bungie's hands and went to 343.

just so you know, there are currently more old bungie members(halo 1 and halo 2 era) that are working for 343 than there were working for bungie when halo reach came out.

[Hazy]

just so you know, there are currently more old bungie members(halo 1 and halo 2 era) that are working for 343 than there were working for bungie when halo reach came out.

Those are the guys who joined bungie in excitement over making a halo game, not working for bungie (And we know they exist). Of course they would join 343 for another chance at it. Halo's a solid money goldmine. Why take a shot at another possible game with bungie when the million dollar franchise is simply switching owners and is, coincidentally, in need of new employees?

Point is just because a couple of guys who worked for Bungie joined 343, it dosen't mean Halo 4 and all future titles are now guaranteed insta-awesome. Example:

A team of forgers (let's call them awesomesauce, because muffins) starts making INCREDIBLE maps for the community, and is known as the best forging group ever.

All but two forgers leave the group for random ass reasons (zombie apocolypse, eaten by unicorns, muffins, paper clips, etc.). The two left re-name the group and recruit new members.

Would you still call this new group awesomesauce? And would you still continue to trust them to make these great maps, even though you don't know the ability of these new guys that joined in or their intentions?

[cCrisis]

Those are the guys who joined bungie in excitement over making a halo game, not working for bungie (And we know they exist). Of course they would join 343 for another chance at it. Halo's a solid money goldmine. Why take a shot at another possible game with bungie when the million dollar franchise is simply switching owners and is, coincidentally, in need of new employees?

Point is just because a couple of guys who worked for Bungie joined 343, it dosen't mean Halo 4 and all future titles are now guaranteed insta-awesome. Example:

A team of forgers (let's call them awesomesauce, because muffins) starts making INCREDIBLE maps for the community, and is known as the best forging group ever.

All but two forgers leave the group for random ass reasons (zombie apocolypse, eaten by unicorns, muffins, paper clips, etc.). The two left re-name the group and recruit new members.

Would you still call this new group awesomesauce? And would you still continue to trust them to make these great maps, even though you don't know the ability of these new guys that joined in or their intentions?

i am not applying that halo 4 will be amazing but i see the fact that there are people who have worked on some of the older halo's will only help make the game better not worse. everything that 343 is doing seems like the old bungie and actually listened to it's community.

[Hazy]

i am not applying that halo 4 will be amazing but i see the fact that there are people who have worked on some of the older halo's will only help make the game better not worse. everything that 343 is doing seems like the old bungie and actually listened to it's community.

I really only used Halo 4 as an example of a 343 creation. I honestly don't care about that game only in particular.

And I see your point, but keep in mind there is a veeeery fine line between "listening to it's community" and "fanservice" (just throwing the community a bone to shut them up, disregarding quality and/or care for other opinions. Let's just say disregarding bloom altogether instead of the compromise made to shut up the complaining end of the community. Fanservice.)

Anyways, my point here is that 343 is playing with fire as of the moment with Reach's title update. I know they're excited, and want to make an impression on the community, but one wrong change and they can lose a lot followers. Hopefully, and by the sounds of it all is not lost, they know the tightrope walk they're in. Perfect example was the initial reaction we're looking at in this very forum to the news. Ghosthammer already lost hope and nothing even changed yet XDDDD

[cCrisis]

I really only used Halo 4 as an example of a 343 creation. I honestly don't care about that game only in particular.

And I see your point, but keep in mind there is a veeeery fine line between "listening to it's community" and "fanservice" (just throwing the community a bone to shut them up, disregarding quality and/or care for other opinions. Let's just say disregarding bloom altogether instead of the compromise made to shut up the complaining end of the community. Fanservice.)

Anyways, my point here is that 343 is playing with fire as of the moment with Reach's title update. I know they're excited, and want to make an impression on the community, but one wrong change and they can lose a lot followers. Hopefully, and by the sounds of it all is not lost, they know the tightrope walk they're in. Perfect example was the initial reaction we're looking at in this very forum to the news. Ghosthammer already lost hope and nothing even changed yet XDDDD

if you haven't noticed, halo reach's online population is VERY small compared to previous halo's so really they can't mess up much.

[Hazy]

Halo 3's has gotten even smaller. Ever gotten onto social big team lately? XD 7,000 at the most

Reach was a troll-fest from the beginning, of course its online population is small compared to the other games.

It took three golden years to get Halo 3 down to around 100,000, and it's still alive. One year on reach and people are already leaving, something has to be wrong, right?

However it brought some interesting mechanics to the table. AA were great if they could be buffed a tad (I still say camo shouldn'tve been touched in this upddate, btw. Yes it was that important to me) and bloom was.....iffy. I said earlier: better as a game option. And the game does have a huge following. Comparably smaller, but still huge.

As per your statement: Reach's small impression is exactly WHY expectations are even higher for 343 now, if you ask me. Now not only do they have to keep a wonderful series going AND re-live one of the best campaigns in shooter history, they're now also tasked with making sure that game bounces back from Reach's stumble. Some see halo's reputation already going down the drain, and are now looking to 343 to either recover or let it wash into the sewers of other failed games. You can now make fun of that metaphor.

[cCrisis]

Halo 3's has gotten even smaller. Ever gotten onto social big team lately? XD 7,000 at the most

Reach was a troll-fest from the beginning, of course its online population is small compared to the other games.

It took three golden years to get Halo 3 down to around 100,000, and it's still alive. One year on reach and people are already leaving, something has to be wrong, right?

However it brought some interesting mechanics to the table. AA were great if they could be buffed a tad (I still say camo shouldn'tve been touched in this upddate, btw. Yes it was that important to me) and bloom was.....iffy. I said earlier: better as a game option. And the game does have a huge following. Comparably smaller, but still huge.

As per your statement: Reach's small impression is exactly WHY expectations are even higher for 343 now, if you ask me. Now not only do they have to keep a wonderful series going AND re-live one of the best campaigns in shooter history, they're now also tasked with making sure that game bounces back from Reach's stumble. Some see halo's reputation already going down the drain, and are now looking to 343 to either recover or let it wash into the sewers of other failed games. You can now make fun of that metaphor.

the title update will make some of the older halo players to come back because the aspects that aren't halo can be adjusted.

[Spartanbh]

Just puttin this out there...this would not be a concern or problem if ML-FUCKING-G WAS NEVER FUCKING INVENTED DUE TO KIDS WANTING TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES ONE WAY AND ONE WAY ONLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF YOU CAN STILL HAVE FUN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES WITHOUT WINNING OR BEING OVERLY COMPETITIVE.

[Fiery Grave]

What annoys me most, and is the biggest hole in your argument crisis, is why did they remove bloom if its broken and not just fix it properly?

If they fix bloom properly it would be fixing the broken system, if they remove it completely its catering to the MLG tards who do nothing but complain all the time

[Guzzie]

What annoys me most, and is the biggest hole in your argument crisis, is why did they remove bloom if its broken and not just fix it properly?

If they fix bloom properly it would be fixing the broken system, if they remove it completely its catering to the MLG tards who do nothing but complain all the time
The reason they just didn't fix it is because they didn't have time. They have deadlines they must meet and sometimes compromises must be made, similar to the same reason theater in reach was approached. They didn't have enough time, so they made it so only one person could watch a film.

Regarding the "MLG Kids wanting to play the game a certain way" notion that some of you have, I could care less if there is bloom or if there isn't. I agree with bloom in some aspects, but also disagree with some of its features. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if there is bloom or no bloom, the better player will still be on top

[Nocte]

Crisis it isn't luck because it's the hit-scan system. That is how the system works, it was designed that way. True when you fire a weapon from somewhere, like a robotic arm that can hold the weapons recoil back then the weapon will fire perfectly accurate, but you are forgetting one simple thing. You don't aim down the sights in Reach nor any halo game for that matter. You can use a scope on scoped weapons, but that is it. Meaning that you can never get a perfectly straight shot.....

[cCrisis]

Just puttin this out there...this would not be a concern or problem if ML-FUCKING-G WAS NEVER FUCKING INVENTED DUE TO KIDS WANTING TO PLAY VIDEO GAMES ONE WAY AND ONE WAY ONLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE IDEA OF YOU CAN STILL HAVE FUN PLAYING VIDEO GAMES WITHOUT WINNING OR BEING OVERLY COMPETITIVE.

I was never a "MLG KID" as you would call it until companies start to release shitty games that cater to noobs who want to play "lol shoot bullets everywhere and say it's realistic so that the game seems better but plays like shit, AR beatdown trade every kill and sprint and beatdown 2 times"

MLG gets rid of the shit that makes the game stupid and actually plays like a multiplayer experience should play, in halo 1 and 2 the better player won every time when in a random playlists or playing against freinds. in halo 3 the non hitscan failed online also the hide and AR spray thenn beatdown and trade kills made me become apart of MLG. you can call it fun to have a realistic game but it makes gameplat shitty. non hitscan worked in halo 1 because it was always played on LAN. why do you think 343 didn't include the multiplayer side of halo ce with CEA? it would ruin that aspect of the game because online is nothing like LAN and would make the game feel shitty like halo 3. nothing is more frustrating than when your aiming perfectly and some online warrior eats every shot, this is still prevalent on halo reach but nowhere to the degree of halo 3.

I was always a casual player until every game released was made for the casual player, they took away what made halo fun. simplistic balanced gameplay that worked and now they try to hard to make halo into a noob friendly game so that getting owned is something of the past.

A large skill gap is what made them games fun. i would rather get owned a million times and know the reason why i got owned was because i was out played than own someone once by spamming 5 bullets to there face.


I hate to say this but you guy's will never understand my argument and it seems pointless for me too continue. i understand what your saying and all i am telling you that what you want will make the game worse. realism needs to be kept away from games, it doesn't work because games are not real life. in a game it's not a perfect physical environment such as in real life. latency could be compared too a bullet changing speeds randomly and DMR bloom could be compared to using a musket to shoot at something, it's completely inaccurate and it's a luck factor to where the bullet will go. Sure i can pace my shots but when i do someone spams and hits all 5 of there. i guess that is realistic but it makes for shitty gameplay in a video game.

[zZ Dr K Zz]

The reason they just didn't fix it is because they didn't have time. They have deadlines they must meet and sometimes compromises must be made, similar to the same reason theater in reach was approached. They didn't have enough time, so they made it so only one person could watch a film.

I think they did that because it was laggy as hell in Halo 3 and wasn't worth the time to watch a film together.

Bloom doesn't make as much as a difference as people think. Taking your time in firing your shots can make a bigger difference compared to just spraying and praying.

[cCrisis]

I think they did that because it was laggy as hell in Halo 3 and wasn't worth the time to watch a film together.

Bloom doesn't make as much as a difference as people think. Taking your time in firing your shots can make a bigger difference compared to just spraying and praying.

your right but you still get killed by someone who sprays and prays. obviously it doesn't happen every time but it's far from fun to get killed that way.

[Guzzie]

I think they did that because it was laggy as hell in Halo 3 and wasn't worth the time to watch a film together.

Bloom doesn't make as much as a difference as people think. Taking your time in firing your shots can make a bigger difference compared to just spraying and praying.

No, it was done because they didn't have enough time. It was either that or something firefight related, and they decided to go with the firefight related issue. There is actually a video in which a Bungie employee says that they didn't have enough time for the multiple people in theater mode.

And bloom does make a pretty big difference, especially when playing in a sub par connection like i am now; however, pacing your shots also makes a big difference, and its a lot more satisfying to pace a five shot than to spam a five shot. Go play reach on LAN, the bloom works a lot better on LAN, but sadly, xbl sucks because it is online, and most people's opinions are based on what they know and most of them have never LANNED.

Regardless, there will be playlists with bloom and some without it, so if you like the bloom, you can play those playlists with bloom, if you don't like bloom, you can choose those playlist without it. it will truly be an issue of getting used to switching back and forth if you really care, and who knows, maybe after playing the different settings, you may change your minds about bloom or still hate/love it. I for one could care less, I'll still fiving kids all day regardless so no big deal :)

[Vestige]

go play living dead the only playlist you can actually laugh in with out some MLG kid comming in and bragging and bitching how stupid bloom is.

[cCrisis]

go play living dead the only playlist you can actually laugh in with out some MLG kid comming in and bragging and bitching how stupid bloom is.

MLG is the only playlist i can go into and have fun and not have to listen to some causal players complain about "MLG Kids" because they get owned every game.

you can blame the growth of MLG on the low quality of games being produced.

i am done, its a pointless argument and we will never see eye to eye.

[Guzzie]

Let me stop all you guys right here okay BLOOM is makes the game ballanced and more realistic the DMR is going to turn into a fucking low powered sniper rifle with out bloom Im going to be able to spam the shit outa people like the br btw in my opion worst fucking gun ever why? once you learn to 4 shot thats alll you do and you can just well spam it untill you get the kill.. man I hate MLG its a game have fun the only fun game in halo now is fucking living dead the only playlist I can actually laugh in..
Why are people associating the removal of bloom with MLG? in fact, the MLG community makes like 10% of the entire halo community, meaning that most of the feedback that Bungie (now 343) gets is mostly from the "average" player, or the "non-MLG gamer". Now about spamming the br and 4 shooting everyone, even the best pro did not 4 shot everyone, so your statement is just plainly based in no evidence or facts. If you hate MLG, just don't play MLG. if you rather play living dead, go for it, no one is stopping you, simply live and let live, but if you are going to make a statement at least make sure it somewhat makes sense.

[Vestige]

Hye guzzie old post haha I changed it Irdc Its just guna be annoying once bloom is gone x.x and I never make sence thats how I am ;P

[bazongaman502]

The reason they just didn't fix it is because they didn't have time. They have deadlines they must meet and sometimes compromises must be made, similar to the same reason theater in reach was approached. They didn't have enough time, so they made it so only one person could watch a film.

Regarding the "MLG Kids wanting to play the game a certain way" notion that some of you have, I could care less if there is bloom or if there isn't. I agree with bloom in some aspects, but also disagree with some of its features. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if there is bloom or no bloom, the better player will still be on top

so they have a short Deadline... do you know when they were told to create an update? December... also durring that time they were working on CEA and Halo 4.... they can easily stall on Halo 4 to have the Update get their full attention.... but they didnt because they knew what "everyone" wanted (which will make me walk away from Halo possibly), so they mess with the things that are fine... just so that they dont have to listin to little kids cry about "he killed me faster... he must be cheating or this game is messed up and broken"

Bloom is fine, so what that you did due to (what you guys say) "luck"... you cant live forever, you are eventully going to die

[Guzzie]

so they have a short Deadline... do you know when they were told to create an update? December... also durring that time they were working on CEA and Halo 4.... they can easily stall on Halo 4 to have the Update get their full attention.... but they didnt because they knew what "everyone" wanted (which will make me walk away from Halo possibly), so they mess with the things that are fine... just so that they dont have to listin to little kids cry about "he killed me faster... he must be cheating or this game is messed up and broken"

Bloom is fine, so what that you did due to (what you guys say) "luck"... you cant live forever, you are eventully going to die

I completely agree with you, they could definitely push a deadline back, but that would be lost money and time, and unfortunately, companies compromise and that is exactly what they are doing here, compromising.

[cCrisis]

so they have a short Deadline... do you know when they were told to create an update? December... also durring that time they were working on CEA and Halo 4.... they can easily stall on Halo 4 to have the Update get their full attention.... but they didnt because they knew what "everyone" wanted (which will make me walk away from Halo possibly), so they mess with the things that are fine... just so that they dont have to listin to little kids cry about "he killed me faster... he must be cheating or this game is messed up and broken"

Bloom is fine, so what that you did due to (what you guys say) "luck"... you cant live forever, you are eventully going to die

as long as i die for the reason of being out played, than i am perfectly happy. spamming 5 shots into someone is not out playing them.

[zZ Dr K Zz]

as long as i die for the reason of being out played, than i am perfectly happy. spamming 5 shots into someone is not out playing them.
Yeah it is. You just didn't decide to spam 5 shots into them.

They obviously did out play you.

[cCrisis]

Yeah it is. You just didn't decide to spam 5 shots into them.

They obviously did out play you.

it's a random chance that all 5 shots will hit when spamming, thats not being out played that's being out "random bloom engine"

bloom makes your shot's inaccurate and they can hit anywhere in the circle of the bloom. the bullet could decide to go to the part of the circle were the guy is at or it could decide to go in a part of the circle were the guy is not. it's all randomly generated by the game engine. which makes it luck. a spam 5 shot is luck.

being out played would be him strafing and making me miss while pacing and hitting the 5 shot. if this happens and i say to myself "damn i got owned"

me flipping a quarter and choosing heads and him choosing tail and it land on tails is not me being out played....... i was out lucked.

[Hazy]

Everyone is focused on the "bloom" aspect. Why? Because it involves "luck" or something.

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say that I really don't give a single shit about bloom unless I'm holding a precision weapon. Now in that sense we can look at it and say bloom is counter-productive due to the fact that it prevents effective precision for some, ironically.

But let's look at two basic precision gun models to see what could happen if bloom is removed.

DMR: High Fire rate when spammed, high precision, medium-sized magazine, quick reload.

Bloom's Effect: GIANT bloom per bullet at highest fire rate, preventing effective long or even medium-range shooting. Paced shooting remedies the previous statement. When paced, an enemy encounter could be finished within four seconds or so, due to the need to recover accuracy thus reducing fire rate.

Bloom removed: High precision at all times, even at highest fire rate. Keep in mind it only takes five shots to kill someone with headshots involved. DMR has a max fire rate of around 3 or so bullets per second. This means the shortest enemy encounter would be around two or so seconds. Long distance targets don't stand a chance against a skilled marksman unless they find cover fast and counter effectively within a one-second time frame.

Needle Rifle: Semi-auto when holding down trigger. Higher fire rate than DMR. Above average magazine size. Higher precision than DMR, however similar bloom rate applies per rate of fire. Slower reload compared to DMR, but magazine counters this weakness.

Bloom effect: Similar bloom as DMR. Toe-to-Toe with it's rival, a missed DMR shot can mean death for it's holder if the needle rifle is in competent hands.

Bloom removed: Possibly more effective than DMR at long range, similar to a sort of alien ACR, in fact... Yes there is less damage per bullet, but the accuracy and fire rate puts it at a very high advantage compared to other weapons. About seven shots to kill, fire rate of around 4 bullets per second at highest speed, shortest encounter would be around three seconds. However with five or so shots to take down sheilds, a headshot can easily shorten the encounter a second or so. Last and not least: The supercombine. Three shots to an unsheilded enemy means esplosion. Did I mention that it's VERY high precision?

Evidence presented, discuss.

[Nocte]

Why are people associating the removal of bloom with MLG? in fact, the MLG community makes like 10% of the entire halo community, meaning that most of the feedback that Bungie (now 343) gets is mostly from the "average" player, or the "non-MLG gamer". Now about spamming the br and 4 shooting everyone, even the best pro did not 4 shot everyone, so your statement is just plainly based in no evidence or facts. If you hate MLG, just don't play MLG. if you rather play living dead, go for it, no one is stopping you, simply live and let live, but if you are going to make a statement at least make sure it somewhat makes sense.

That isn't a very solid statistic, because I MLG players at least the ones I have seen love to bitch more then any type of player and when they do it they never let what they are bitching about go.


@Crisis as you said random, it isn't luck. The bloom system is created to be random, the system wasn't created to be lucky. It was created to be random.

[bazongaman502]

dude, i rage in games... ask my friends, they will tell you that...

I rage sometimes hen i get killed by a spammer, but i dont suddenly go on a rante saying "Halo is dead, Bungie fucked up" (not saying that any of you are saying that)

i just move on... only thing that i hate about Halo Reach is the amount of little kids that play this game and talk out loud as if people care what they say.... im tired of having the feeling that i just walked into a pre-school on a game

[bazongaman502]

also cCrisis, i noticed this is basically what your saying...

"The better player should always win, and the not so skilled player shouldnt stand a chance".... Bloom gives them that chance, sure i understand you dont like dying, but i like it cuz it gives everyone a chance to kill the better player...

I dont like thinking i just dominated someone because im better then them (unless they talk shit, then ill be glad to destroy them or be sure i give them one hell of a Teabag though out the game)...

Bloom is fine, so what theres randomness... get over it... please

[cCrisis]

Everyone is focused on the "bloom" aspect. Why? Because it involves "luck" or something.

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say that I really don't give a single shit about bloom unless I'm holding a precision weapon. Now in that sense we can look at it and say bloom is counter-productive due to the fact that it prevents effective precision for some, ironically.

But let's look at two basic precision gun models to see what could happen if bloom is removed.

DMR: High Fire rate when spammed, high precision, medium-sized magazine, quick reload.

Bloom's Effect: GIANT bloom per bullet at highest fire rate, preventing effective long or even medium-range shooting. Paced shooting remedies the previous statement. When paced, an enemy encounter could be finished within four seconds or so, due to the need to recover accuracy thus reducing fire rate.

Bloom removed: High precision at all times, even at highest fire rate. Keep in mind it only takes five shots to kill someone with headshots involved. DMR has a max fire rate of around 3 or so bullets per second. This means the shortest enemy encounter would be around two or so seconds. Long distance targets don't stand a chance against a skilled marksman unless they find cover fast and counter effectively within a one-second time frame.

Needle Rifle: Semi-auto when holding down trigger. Higher fire rate than DMR. Above average magazine size. Higher precision than DMR, however similar bloom rate applies per rate of fire. Slower reload compared to DMR, but magazine counters this weakness.

Bloom effect: Similar bloom as DMR. Toe-to-Toe with it's rival, a missed DMR shot can mean death for it's holder if the needle rifle is in competent hands.

Bloom removed: Possibly more effective than DMR at long range, similar to a sort of alien ACR, in fact... Yes there is less damage per bullet, but the accuracy and fire rate puts it at a very high advantage compared to other weapons. About seven shots to kill, fire rate of around 4 bullets per second at highest speed, shortest encounter would be around three seconds. However with five or so shots to take down sheilds, a headshot can easily shorten the encounter a second or so. Last and not least: The supercombine. Three shots to an unsheilded enemy means esplosion. Did I mention that it's VERY high precision?

Evidence presented, discuss.





i have said this before, they plan on messing with the maximum rate of fire for the two guns, so that it's balanced. they said that the kill time when pacing for halo reach is a little slow and i think a lot of you could agree that if you perfectly pace your shot's its easy for you to hit them 2 or so times and they just run and hide before you can finish them. they want to speed up the time it takes to kill a tad bit( don't flip out its going to be like half a second or so)

i don't see them allowing the DMR to become unreasonably powerful though.

[cCrisis]

also cCrisis, i noticed this is basically what your saying...

"The better player should always win, and the not so skilled player shouldnt stand a chance".... Bloom gives them that chance, sure i understand you dont like dying, but i like it cuz it gives everyone a chance to kill the better player...

I dont like thinking i just dominated someone because im better then them (unless they talk shit, then ill be glad to destroy them or be sure i give them one hell of a Teabag though out the game)...

Bloom is fine, so what theres randomness... get over it... please

i guess this is were we differ

Also talking about your other post, why wouldn't you want to express your opinion and make the game better and more enjoyable? It's america our whole country is based off of people complaining.

and i think you miss understand some of what i am saying about the skill thing. i am talking about in a specific time or instance in the game. if guzzie(considered more skilled) and you(less skilled) get in a battle and guzzie misses 3 shots while you perfectly aim 5 shots into him than at that instance in the game you were the more skilled player. i am not saying the usually more skilled player should always win even if at the time of the game when you battle he is less skilled.

^^that's kinda hard to explain but i think you know what i mean.

[bazongaman502]

I understand...

Fuck you for saying im less skilled lol ;) sadly its true

to basically sum up how i feel... Reach doesnt need a Title Update... if anything, this one will make it worse... i didnt like Halo 3, Halo 2 was eh and CE i only liked the campaign...

Reach was enjoyable and i loved it, seeing this is going to kill me

[cCrisis]

I understand...

Fuck you for saying im less skilled lol ;) sadly its true

to basically sum up how i feel... Reach doesnt need a Title Update... if anything, this one will make it worse... i didnt like Halo 3, Halo 2 was eh and CE i only liked the campaign...

Reach was enjoyable and i loved it, seeing this is going to kill me

well you should still be happy because really they aren't changing much that effects the whole game. i think the biggest thing will be the nades not acting like tennis balls and acting like a real grenade would.(YES THE GRENADES WILL BE MORE REALISTIC!!!!!!!!!!!) A few glitches will be fixed and some under the hood stuff to improve the game overall. also i think you will be able to play co-op campaign in a playlist now or something. I also believe they are messing with a few of the AA to try to balance them but really they could have left that alone. EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE A GAME CUSTOMIZATION OPTION SUCH AS THINGS LIKE MOVEMENT SPEED, HEALTH, SHIELD REGEN RATE etc.

but people who prefer to older style of halo will also be happy now. it's only right for 343 to respect the opinions of tradition fans and make the game fun for both new and old.

[bazongaman502]

well you should still be happy because really they aren't changing much that effects the whole game. i think the biggest thing will be the nades not acting like tennis balls and acting like a real grenade would.(YES THE GRENADES WILL BE MORE REALISTIC!!!!!!!!!!!) A few glitches will be fixed and some under the hood stuff to improve the game overall. also i think you will be able to play co-op campaign in a playlist now or something. I also believe they are messing with a few of the AA to try to balance them but really they could have left that alone. EVERYTHING ELSE WILL BE A GAME CUSTOMIZATION OPTION SUCH AS THINGS LIKE MOVEMENT SPEED, HEALTH, SHIELD REGEN RATE etc.

but people who prefer to older style of halo will also be happy now. it's only right for 343 to respect the opinions of tradition fans and make the game fun for both new and old.

but its not benifiting the new... only the old

[cCrisis]

but it really doesn't hurt the new, so it really just increases the games population and makes more people happy, you should be glad they can enjoy the game on the same level as you do.

you should be happy that 343 is looking after everyone in the community and giving a lot of options. At halo fest one of there major points they made was they wanted to be community driven and want to help out the communities who play grifball and the MLG people and the BTB players and Red Vs. Blue people and so on.

They realize things like FC and Red vs Blue and rooster teeth and such are what make halo so great.

[bazongaman502]

your instantly assuming that this Update will bring thousands of people back to Reach... i highly dought that will happen, well it might, but wont stay that way....

Casual Gamers = play for fun

non-casual gamers = Play hard and just try to win no matter what

Reach was for the Casual Gamers... Bungie even said that... meaning, they wanted it to be for fun.... sadly gaming has become way to serious all of a sudden and the word "Fun" has a new name... "noob"

[Twitch]

There will always be competitive people out there. You can't make a Win/Lose game and expect there to be no competitive people lol...The halo series has always and will continue to be a competitive game aswill COD...

There are just somethings that people are going to have to get over...They can't please everyone, Just the majority. I'm actually excited about the update...

[cCrisis]

your instantly assuming that this Update will bring thousands of people back to Reach... i highly dought that will happen, well it might, but wont stay that way....

Casual Gamers = play for fun

non-casual gamers = Play hard and just try to win no matter what

Reach was for the Casual Gamers... Bungie even said that... meaning, they wanted it to be for fun.... sadly gaming has become way to serious all of a sudden and the word "Fun" has a new name... "noob"

I would consider myself a casual player because i play to play halo and have fun doing so, i play to win but winning or losing doesn't dictate how much fun i have, "casual" playlists are so boring and are not very team oriented, owning people who are nowhere as good as me is no fun. and i am not that good tbh. i want to have a challenge when i play and MLG is the only playlist that i can get that in.

i also wish they will bring back the 1-50 in some of the playlists, trying to level kept me very interested in halo and gave me something to achieve. while credits are only based on how much you play it's kinda boring and ARENA is just people stat whoring and camping and abusing power weapons, it's so non team oriented and not very fun.

boosters and such are a problem but i think i can deal with that over people quitting every game because theres really no penalty for doing so.

one of the main reasons i hate COD is because it's so simple and easy to just go and get 40+ kills a game.

[Twitch]

Lol keep thinking COD is that easy cCrisis ;) You obviously have never been in the scrimmages aha...You will never see someone with 40 kills in scrims with pro teams lmao...unless its obj yet even then.

Yeah cod is easy in pub but honestly no one good plays pub... hit the mlg forums uup for real players :)


but back on subject...Title update hurrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyy

[cCrisis]

Lol keep thinking COD is that easy cCrisis ;) You obviously have never been in the scrimmages aha...You will never see someone with 40 kills in scrims with pro teams lmao...unless its obj yet even then.

Yeah cod is easy in pub but honestly no one good plays pub... hit the mlg forums uup for real players :)


but back on subject...Title update hurrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyy

twitch, my brother placed top 16 at columbus for cod and i know about pro scrims and i realize the level of play. it's nothing compared to top level halo play. cod in general is easy compared to halo. i also was apart of a few cod4 top page variant teams back in the day.

the level of aiming plus the smarts involved with halo are on a completely different level from cod.

[KillerGUNNY132]

I'll throw my two cents in.

I am personally pretty excited about the upcoming Title Update that 343i is releasing. I personally think Reach is the worst Halo game (Multiplayer wise) that has come in the series. I just don't have as much fun playing Reach as I did with Halo 3 or Halo 2. I still like the game though. I love the updated forge and Forge World. The campaign is pretty damn good and I love the addition of the Daily/Weekly challenges. I also enjoy the Armor Abilities. I thought sprint was long overdue and they add something to the game. But I guess I'll address what 343 is changing with the upcoming TU.

Armor Lock: They are nerfing Armor Lock. And good on them for doing so. I hate that AA with the strength of a thousand suns. You know what I hated the most about it? It wasn't when I was chasing someone and got their shields down and then they would go into Armor Lock and sit there. No, no. It was when I stuck someone and then they went into Armor Lock and the sticky just popped off them. That would get me every single time. Giving a player invincibility in multiplayer is a bad idea. Period.

Nerfing Active Camo: I don't get this one. I liked Active Camo the way it was. I dont understand what was so overpowering about it. You could always tell when a player had it because your radar would go apeshit. And its not THAT hard to spot them. I would mark this as a mistake on 343's part.

Bloom: I'm rather indifferent about bloom. I dont really care whether its in the game or not. But if I had to choose, I would remove it. But that's just my personal playing preference.

[Hazy]

i have said this before, they plan on messing with the maximum rate of fire for the two guns, so that it's balanced. they said that the kill time when pacing for halo reach is a little slow and i think a lot of you could agree that if you perfectly pace your shot's its easy for you to hit them 2 or so times and they just run and hide before you can finish them. they want to speed up the time it takes to kill a tad bit( don't flip out its going to be like half a second or so)

i don't see them allowing the DMR to become unreasonably powerful though.

I know. I was implying that the difference was a good thing. Faster encounters means more time to focus attention on other targets.

Well, all my gripe's are soothed. October here we come.

[Fiery Grave]

I would consider myself a casual player because i play to play halo and have fun doing so, i play to win but winning or losing doesn't dictate how much fun i have, "casual" playlists are so boring and are not very team oriented, owning people who are nowhere as good as me is no fun. and i am not that good tbh. i want to have a challenge when i play and MLG is the only playlist that i can get that in.


this part is very contradictory, from its self and things in the past you have said.... if winning didn't matter what the big deal if every 2 in 10 fights you lose by random luck, thats what its like for real causal players, and also casual players do not look for a challenge all the time, they look to play at level where they are average or good, not one where they must work hard or try their best to win.


Crisis, you not much of a casual player



i don't see them allowing the DMR to become unreasonably powerful though. thats the problem.... it already can do well in all ranges, which it shouldn't, and adding the boost it just going to make it more powerful

[VerbotenDonkey]

I'll throw my two cents in.

I am personally pretty excited about the upcoming Title Update that 343i is releasing. I personally think Reach is the worst Halo game (Multiplayer wise) that has come in the series. I just don't have as much fun playing Reach as I did with Halo 3 or Halo 2. I still like the game though. I love the updated forge and Forge World. The campaign is pretty damn good and I love the addition of the Daily/Weekly challenges. I also enjoy the Armor Abilities. I thought sprint was long overdue and they add something to the game. But I guess I'll address what 343 is changing with the upcoming TU.

Armor Lock: They are nerfing Armor Lock. And good on them for doing so. I hate that AA with the strength of a thousand suns. You know what I hated the most about it? It wasn't when I was chasing someone and got their shields down and then they would go into Armor Lock and sit there. No, no. It was when I stuck someone and then they went into Armor Lock and the sticky just popped off them. That would get me every single time. Giving a player invincibility in multiplayer is a bad idea. Period.

Nerfing Active Camo: I don't get this one. I liked Active Camo the way it was. I dont understand what was so overpowering about it. You could always tell when a player had it because your radar would go apeshit. And its not THAT hard to spot them. I would mark this as a mistake on 343's part.

Bloom: I'm rather indifferent about bloom. I dont really care whether its in the game or not. But if I had to choose, I would remove it. But that's just my personal playing preference.


Armor Lock: Yeah that and when they just kept using it every second to avoid death, then take it off take a shot then use it again to block beatdowns. Was just annoying.

Invis: While I dont agree with it, it's probably because people use it on big maps like Hemmorage to invis snipe, sitting still so enemy snipers cant see them. It was pretty annoying, but Invis is severly underpowered, because you KNOW when someones using it. Although it is helpful to use to scramble enemies radars when you're with friends so the enemy doesn't know where your allies are by radar.

[cCrisis]

this part is very contradictory, from its self and things in the past you have said.... if winning didn't matter what the big deal if every 2 in 10 fights you lose by random luck, thats what its like for real causal players, and also casual players do not look for a challenge all the time, they look to play at level where they are average or good, not one where they must work hard or try their best to win.


Crisis, you not much of a casual player

thats the problem.... it already can do well in all ranges, which it shouldn't, and adding the boost it just going to make it more powerful

i play to win, and i guess that is kinda contradictory but that comes down to the competitive side of me as a person. i have always been competitive in anything i have done, i for the most part try to do my best in anything i participate in. i guess you could compare it to something like me playing football and making a huge play but the ref makes a bad call and reverses what i had done. if that ended up being the reason why we lost than i would be upset about the circumstances that we lost by not the loss itself. but the problem is i don't play or participate in anything just for the satisfaction of winning and if i lost fare and square than i could care less, it would still be just as fun if i won.

for example:
In High School i played football for four years. when i was a freshman i was 5'11 180 pounds, i was weak(i maxed out at 145 pounds on bench) i was slow and i wasn't very good at football. at the start of my senior year i was 6'2 around 250-260, i maxed 315 on bench and ran a 5 second forty yard dash. I always pushed myself to get better and i was one of better players on my team. During high school my team had a record of 4-36. i never once thought about quitting or trying less during the offseason because my team sucked. i didn't play the game just because i wanted to win. i played the game because it was fun win or lose. I am just competitive in nature, i would rather win but if i lost i am not going to enjoy the game any less than if i won.

i mean i guess we could have a different meaning of what a casual or a non casual player is. personally for me anyone who play's the game because of the enjoyment of playing is casual. (winning or losing doesn't dictate the level of enjoyment from playing) if that person tries to win when they play or they just don't care. i don't think that really matters. i mean i would even say that you could split it up into a different category of "competitive casual players" and "non-competitive casual players"

for me non-casual players are people who for example only play a game in the hopes that they can gain something from the game itself, such as making money at tournaments or if they lose they don't want to play because winning is absolutely everything.

so basically,

casual = playing what you as an individual finds fun or enjoyable.

non-casual = playing for fame, wealth or the satisfaction of winning.

[Fiery Grave]

casual = playing what you as an individual finds fun or enjoyable.

non-casual = playing for fame, wealth or the satisfaction of winning.

for normal people:

Casual = doesn't take the game seriously, has fun no matter how it plays out or what BS happens.

competitive = Plays to win, has fun BY winning.

if it wasn't fun for the other competitive players do you think they would keep playing? they have fun by playing to win and winning. casual players have fun even if they died 30 time and 20 time was by pure luck of the other player... crisis you are a competitive player, by most standard definition you are a competitive player... and it is mostly competitive players who have problems with bloom and is defiantly all the ones who would complain about it.

just so everyone is clear there are 3 types of gamers:

casual gamer: most numerous, but generally on the lower skill level end. play fewer games and don't like games they don't have fun with.

competitive Gamer: "Spot light group" roughly the same size as the Hardcore group. play to win, for money, or fame.

Hardcore gamer: Plays to play, often like to finish things fully.... can have competitive streaks to them, but also enjoy non competitive game just as much if not more than competitive games.


I fall under Hardcore BTW

[cCrisis]

for normal people:

Casual = doesn't take the game seriously, has fun no matter how it plays out or what BS happens.

competitive = Plays to win, has fun BY winning.

if it wasn't fun for the other competitive players do you think they would keep playing? they have fun by playing to win and winning. casual players have fun even if they died 30 time and 20 time was by pure luck of the other player... crisis you are a competitive player, by most standard definition you are a competitive player... and it is mostly competitive players who have problems with bloom and is defiantly all the ones who would complain about it.

just so everyone is clear there are 3 types of gamers:

casual gamer: most numerous, but generally on the lower skill level end. play fewer games and don't like games they don't have fun with.

competitive Gamer: "Spot light group" roughly the same size as the Hardcore group. play to win, for money, or fame.

Hardcore gamer: Plays to play, often like to finish things fully.... can have competitive streaks to them, but also enjoy non competitive game just as much if not more than competitive games.


I fall under Hardcore BTW


i don't fall under the competitive group as you give the definition of what you believe.

i play guzzie 1 v 1 all the time and get shit on.....

do i care that i lose? no

do i try to beat him? yes

do i have fun no matter the out come? yes

do i play to gain money? no

do i play so that people know me as good halo player? no

that fact that i believe the game could be improved doesn't mean i am a competitive player ether, that just means i am a fan that cares about the halo series.

your logic of what kind of player i am doesn't even make sense with your definition of a competitive player.


your definition of a casual player is someone who runs around and doesn't shoot because winning doesn't matter at all and like when he randomly teleports 20 feet in the air and die. it doesnt make sense, you can try to win and be a casual player.

[AftershocK]

for normal people:

Casual = doesn't take the game seriously, has fun no matter how it plays out or what BS happens.

competitive = Plays to win, has fun BY winning.

if it wasn't fun for the other competitive players do you think they would keep playing? they have fun by playing to win and winning. casual players have fun even if they died 30 time and 20 time was by pure luck of the other player... crisis you are a competitive player, by most standard definition you are a competitive player... and it is mostly competitive players who have problems with bloom and is defiantly all the ones who would complain about it.

just so everyone is clear there are 3 types of gamers:

casual gamer: most numerous, but generally on the lower skill level end. play fewer games and don't like games they don't have fun with.

competitive Gamer: "Spot light group" roughly the same size as the Hardcore group. play to win, for money, or fame.

Hardcore gamer: Plays to play, often like to finish things fully.... can have competitive streaks to them, but also enjoy non competitive game just as much if not more than competitive games.


I fall under Hardcore BTW

are you really arguing about this? LOL

[Vestige]

So has this update toi ruin reach come out yet so I can try it out and laugh at 343's first fail?

[Silko]

So has this update to ruin Reach come out yet, so I may try it out and laugh at 343's first fail?

No not yet, also I had to do a /fix on this one I had to read it a few times in order to understand it. Not as a personal attack to you Ninja, but please put some punctuation marks in your comments so it slows down the pace of your statement and makes it much easier to read. A simple comma goes a long way. plus the tio threw me off a bit lol

[Hazy]

No not yet, also I had to do a /fix on this one I had to read it a few times in order to understand it. Not as a personal attack to you Ninja, but please put some punctuation marks in your comments so it slows down the pace of your statement and makes it much easier to read. A simple comma goes a long way. plus the tio threw me off a bit lol

He's always been like that. You can't change classic ninja.

[Andimion]

There is no excuse for the inability to perform proper grammar and punctuation, as well as spelling.

[Silko]

^ This

[cCrisis]

There is no excuse for the inability to perform proper grammar and punctuation, as well as spelling.

My mom is an english teacher and honestly my grammer fails.

some people understand language and stuff like that better than others. Math and science makes a billions times more sense to me than English and writing. while my mom struggles with basic algebra but can write a whole book.

lets stay on topic though guys.

[Vestige]

Suck it up I have said this multiple times, I have no room for google chrome or firefox. I just moved in with my dad and it will be a while b4 my comp gets swept and thanks Hazy. So silko stop trying to piss me off cause you will get the same reply. Also I watched the new video updates comming some time in early september.

[Maxdoggy]

The Halo Waypoint Bulletin (http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/headline/the-halo-bulletin-83111-/211200) released an all-encompassing update about all of the Title Update changes. Here is a quote version, without the pretty pictures. :P


Welcome to Halo: Reach Title Update 101.

Amid the hustle and bustle of the weekend, we gently released the specifics of the Title Update within the wilderness of our forum. We didn’t go into much detail, though, so I thought it may be beneficial to elaborate upon the particulars and hopefully, by proxy, clear up any lingering questions. From the team that is bringing you the TU (a few of which are known as the dynamic duo of Greg and Chad), here’s more information about some changes that may soon be coming your way. When reading over the specifics, please keep in mind these options—which are still being fine-tuned, altered, and generally played around with—will live in their own special area. You’ll be able to go into a specific hopper, check out the adjustments, and provide feedback on your experiences. And it is with that feedback that we’ll be able to provide the best possible experience over time. So repeat after me: conventional Reach gameplay will continue to exist alongside this new stuff. Also, there’s no place like home. Or something like that, anyway.

Now, put on your listening ears and sit on your pockets, class, because it’s time to pay attention.


Make damage bleed to health through shields possible.

In regard to non-ordnance weapon damage in Vanilla Reach (i.e. not the Rocket Launcher, Grenade Launcher, grenades, etc), the damage system is divided into shields and health. If you have 10 points of shield left, and take 25 points of damage, your shields are eliminated, but the remaining 15 points of damage are not inflicted upon the character. With this change, however, said 15 points transfer into health. This is consistent with the behavior of previous Halo games.

Example: Say the player has 5 health points and 10 shields points. If you hit him with 25 points of damage, he dies.


Make reticle bloom configurable.

Reticule “bloom” is more than just the way the reticule expands when the player shoots. What we actually have done is take control over the maximum radius of the cone of error that expands as the player fires. The actual UI “bloom” is just a representation of a feature that has been in Halo since the beginning. The colloquial “BR Spread” from Halo 3 was this same set of variables, just implemented differently. The same goes for the Halo CE magnum, where holding the trigger down resulted in less accuracy than pulling the trigger rapidly.

What makes Reach’s implementation different from previous games is that it was applied to medium range headshot weapons with the goal of enforcing a “cadence.” Cadence here refers to the pacing and pattern in which the player is expected to fire the weapon to maintain accuracy. For the Needle Rifle, for example, the optimal cadence is to hold down the trigger for three shots, then let go and hold it again for three more shots, then deliver the seventh shot to the head.

Ultimately, bloom and cadence (among other features) were specifically designed to give Reach a slower pace than previous titles. However, a couple of notable features have arisen from this decision: for starters, cadence is easily interrupted in Reach. In fact, many of the Armor Abilities are almost explicitly designed to do that and waiting for that fifth DMR shot to be ready can be really frustrating when you lose the race against your opponent’s Armor Lock energy recovery. Second, shooting to cadence is really only a valid tactic at range; the closer you get to your opponent, the less cadence applies, and players both casual and competitive can attest to how spamming the trigger actually becomes the more reliable option here. So, ultimately while the goal was to make the weapons feel more sophisticated and add a layer of skill required to use them, the net result has been that medium range weapons such as the DMR feel unreliable at their intended range, and trigger spam has not been discouraged.

What we can do is adjust the maximum cone of error on all headshot weapons (except sniper rifles) for any gametype based on a percentage of its default value. The obvious example that we used at Halo Fest is 0% bloom, which guarantees that the DMR, Needle Rifle, and Magnum are going to shoot exactly where you point them, every time. We could, if we wanted to, raise the bloom to 300%, making it so that said weapons become even less accurate over sustained fire, and take longer to recover their accuracy. Not that we’d do that. Especially not to the MLG playlist on April Fool’s. Why are you looking at me that way?

Anyway, this is a powerful tool that we plan to use in very controlled instances. Our primary goal is not to simply strip away bloom from all gametypes. What we’ve found is keeping some bloom actually allows the headshot weapons to feel more rewarding and reliable without overpowering them. In fact, the number we’re currently sweet on is 85%. At a 15% reduction, the DMR feels a lot better, without the Needle Rifle becoming Dolphin Gun, Destroyer of Worlds. In that way, we may find ourselves with a happy medium. That’s not to say that “Zero Bloom” doesn’t have its place in this new world order. It certainly does, but trust us: with zero bloom in place, the Needle Rifle becomes (and should be treated like) a power weapon. As such any implementation of zero bloom will be in a place where we don’t likely expect players to necessarily want to pick up anything other than what they start with. Unfortunately, we can’t make this user-facing, so players will not be able to experiment with bloom themselves, but we plan to release multiple gametypes with varying bloom settings.


Modify Armor Lock.
• Sticky grenade will not be nullified if you use Armor Lock after being stuck.
• Damage received while in Armor Lock is transferred to remaining Armor Ability energy.
• How much the damage depletes your Armor Lock energy is configurable.

In Vanilla Reach, an armor locked player is completely invincible. Further, they can even cancel a death they were about to experience if they were stuck, simply by locking. To address this, we’ve made a few changes. First and most notably, damage taken by an armor locked player is fed to their ability energy. What this means is that you can cause a player who is armor locked to run out of energy faster by attacking them. We are also able to cap the amount of damage transferred to ability energy based on the percentage of their total energy. For example, we can make it so a player can “damage” 75% of a player’s energy. If a player locks with full energy, and someone hits them hard enough, a 75% cap would leave them with 25% energy that would drain over time, like ability energy normally does. If that player only has 50% energy left in that same situation, however, the damage will knock them out of Armor Lock and expose them to take normal shield/health damage. 50% here is only an example and is something we can fine tune.

Also worth mentioning is that if a player is stuck and then armor locks, rather than shedding the grenade and surviving unhurt, the player will die, and the player that stuck him will get his stuck medal. This works for both Plasma Grenades and the Plasma Launcher. The net result of these changes is that we are changing Armor Lock in a way that makes it (to quote one Greg Hermann) “a block button, not a pause button.”


Modify Active Camo.
• Reduce the bonus time the player gets in Active Camo while standing still.
• Reduce the overall length of time the player can be in Active Camo.

When you initiate Active Camo, it depletes faster if you’re moving. If you stand perfectly still, however, it depletes at a slower rate. We are able to modify these rates, and in testing have reduced both by about 15 seconds. This encourages a more sparing use of the Armor Ability, as opposed to in Vanilla Reach where players might camp in one place for upwards of a minute just waiting for someone to run by. Instead, its usage is better saved for quick escapes, or quick surprise attacks.


Remove Sword block.
• Disable the ability to block Sword attacks using melee with anything other than another Sword.

Removing sword block brings the sword back to a better version of a power weapon. This change was implemented simply to make the sword feel more reliable—and the outcome, of course, is that the sword is more reliable. Keep that in mind when you see the sword guy charging through the battlefield!


Implement the classic Magnum from Halo: CE.
• Can make the Magnum automatic.
• Can modify rate of fire of the Magnum.
• Can modify Magnum damage.

Whereas the other features of the TU are there to assist in the transition to 343 steering Reach’s future, the Magnum features are simply meant to enhance the “Anniversary” experience when the game is released. Ultimately, the only way to completely match the Halo CE experience would be to completely rerelease Halo CE Multiplayer, exactly as it was. For a number of reasons, that wasn’t an option but the TU presented us with at least an opportunity to nod toward the multiplayer experience that started it all. As such, we added some additional features that specifically affect the Magnum that allow us to imitate the behavior of the Halo CE Magnum. In conjunction with the bloom settings, making the weapon fully automatic, and adjusting its rate of fire and damage allows us to give the weapon a behavior consistent with the Halo CE death machine.

The net result is that we can make gametypes that feature the Magnum in a unique way. As with something as dramatic as zero bloom, it is our intent to keep the three-shot Magnum in a controlled environment. It’s certainly not meant for default Slayer (where it’d be more effective than either the Needle Rifle or the DMR), but it has a special place in the Anniversary gametypes, and there’s probably other niches where it’ll work as well.


Enable playing Co-Op Campaign and Firefight without requiring a HDD.

Soon those without an HDD will be able to experience all the Xbox LIVE features of Halo: Reach, including Co-op Campaign and Firefight. Bam, said the lady!


And there you have it: the lowdown on the upcoming Halo: Reach Title Update. Hopper and date information is forthcoming, so stay tuned for that. Please note some of these options may not be included in the beta hoppers, but will be available with the Anniversary playlists.

Discuss.

[zZ Dr K Zz]

Ah, so they aren't completely getting rid of Bloom. That's good to hear then, and a reduction of Bloom on the DMR would make it equally as effective as the Needle Rifle (which fucking owns everything).

Not excited at all about Bleed Through returning. It was one of the many things that ruined Halo 3's multiplayer. I won't be surprised to see people using Sprint in order to rush and beat you down more often. LAME!

Finally glad to see they fixed the sticky grenade thing on Armor Lock. Its about time. The other changes aren't needed though.

Active Camo doesn't need to be nerfed. It was perfect in the beta for Halo: Reach and then they nerfed it in the retail version of Reach to make it worthless.

Mixed feelings about this update now. I equally hate and love stuff about it.

That bleed through is going to be annoying now and can completely change how I will play Reach.

Oh well I guess I'll have to:

Adapt. Think. Survive.

[Maxdoggy]

As long as they don't add in the triple beatdown rule like MLG...

Oh wait...

They most likely are...



I have a solution!

Get rid of the bleed-through for normal weapons and make it like all of the other Halo's: A 2-hit beatdown!!





Sprint rushing by noobs FTW! *facepalm*

[zZ Dr K Zz]

What's the triple beatdown rule?

[Maxdoggy]

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/119/1190886p1.html

Scroll down to "Melee Damage and Armor Abilities".

:(

[zZ Dr K Zz]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/49/dawson_crying.gif

[Fiery Grave]

What we can do is adjust the maximum cone of error on all headshot weapons (except sniper rifles) for any gametype based on a percentage of its default value. The obvious example that we used at Halo Fest is 0% bloom, which guarantees that the DMR, Needle Rifle, and Magnum are going to shoot exactly where you point them, every time. We could, if we wanted to, raise the bloom to 300%, making it so that said weapons become even less accurate over sustained fire, and take longer to recover their accuracy. Not that we’d do that. Especially not to the MLG playlist on April Fool’s. Why are you looking at me that way?


so who was saying they didn't have time to fix it?... they obviously did have the time to... i defiantly expect Crisis to be playing with fixed bloom


everything else is pretty stupid
though AL did need one counter, or two less common counters like plasma pistol overcharge, and concussion rifle

[cCrisis]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgyThRtodhc&feature=player_embedded

[zZ Dr K Zz]

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4733/spaylo.jpg

[cCrisis]

so who was saying they didn't have time to fix it?... they obviously did have the time to... i defiantly expect Crisis to be playing with fixed bloom


everything else is pretty stupid
though AL did need one counter, or two less common counters like plasma pistol overcharge, and concussion rifle

the problem with that is it doesn't reset faster. the bloom just get's bigger. you couldn't spam but it would take 10 seconds to 5 shot lol. to test it so that it reset at the right time and how far and how much it expanded per shot would take a lot of testing so that it works right and doesn't mess up the gameplay and balance.

[Fiery Grave]

the problem with that is it doesn't reset faster. the bloom just get's bigger. you couldn't spam but it would take 10 seconds to 5 shot lol. to test it so that it reset at the right time and how far and how much it expanded per shot would take a lot of testing so that it works right and doesn't mess up the gameplay and balance.

stop making excuses and acting like you played it already :P lol

you don't know that for sure, the way i see it by the way the explained it, is the "bloom cap" (as in the thing that it only gets so big when spamming the trigger) gets bigger so when spamming the reticle gets even larger. Or the do it on an exponential bloom. where the more shots you shoot without letting it reset cause it to get large faster.

So your comments about them not being able to fix it and would like it being fixed are coming into play here. :P

[cCrisis]

What we can do is adjust the maximum cone of error on all headshot weapons (except sniper rifles) for any gametype based on a percentage of its default value. The obvious example that we used at Halo Fest is 0% bloom, which guarantees that the DMR, Needle Rifle, and Magnum are going to shoot exactly where you point them, every time. We could, if we wanted to, raise the bloom to 300%, making it so that said weapons become even less accurate over sustained fire, and take longer to recover their accuracy. Not that we’d do that. Especially not to the MLG playlist on April Fool’s. Why are you looking at me that way?

ummm it's not that i've played the game with 300% bloom but i can read the quote that you posted. ^_^

It means the time between accurate shots would be longer and would take longer to kill someone, so obviously they didn't change the speed at which the bloom would reset but instead the bloom cap and how much it expands per shot.

think about how the game would play if it took 10 seconds to kill someone with a DMR 5 shot kill lol

[SuRroundeD By 1]

In my opinion bloom just slows down gameplay, if I try to pace my bloom, I am going to lose to the guy spamming. This is what happens more than 50% of the time, so now I just spam my DMR until the last shot (head shot, then I let the bloom reset). Halo CE's kill times were amazing, they made it so if you were a good shot you could get multiple kills quickly, unlike in Reach where you take 5 seconds to kill one guy, only to be almost dead by the other. IMO If my reticle is ON the target, I should hit it, not let luck account for anything (which is what bloom is).

Still, Reach's kill times will be slow even if bloom is scrapped. Here is an example: In Halo CE lets say you come up to a group of three bad guys, you have the god pistol, and you quickly 3sk the first guy. The others are just noticing you, because you got your first kill in about a second they havn't reacted completely, which gives you time to 3sk the second guy before they fully turn to face you. Now the third man is facing you, he starts to fire, but because you arn't waiting for bloom to reset you can instantly start fire again, this last fight's outcome completely depends on your skill against him. Lets say your more skilled and you win, this battle took less that 5 seconds to finish, and you came out victorious with a triple kill because of quick kill times and your skill.

Same player plays Reach, same situation occurs: He begins firing on the first person, however because of how long it takes to kill someone in Reach all of his teamates are able to turn around before you finish your kill, now your skill comes in, if your good you will get the one kill and then you will be killed. Of couse this is considering that your enemy doesn't go into AL and you lose your kill anyway. Now lets go back to the start of this situation, it would be possible to throw a nice grenade and get the consecutive headshots, but thats not what were debating here. This situation happens to not include grenades, because the same could be done in both Reach and Halo CE, and have relativly little impact to weapon kill times.

See where I'm going here about kill times? The good player in Halo CE is now 3-0 and going on a killing spree, the same good player in Reach is now 1-1 and waiting to respawn. Taking away bloom is only one fix to quick kill times, but this is all my opinion. They can have slow kill times if they wan't.

About AA's . . . I hate all of them except for evade and sprint. Jet Pack ruins map movement, AL just sucks in general (no one should get a second chance at life by going invulnerable), Active Camo should be a pickup not an AA (same as overshields, glad that didn't become an AA), and Hologram sucks . . . so I guess I don't mind it.

So you have it . . . my opinion on Halo! I'm not trying to anger anyone here I am just stating my opinions.

[RetRdidMunkie]

I'd prefer if all the AA's were pickup...

[d3ad1te]

Bandwagon. Yuppie. If you loved the original Halo you'll love the update. Bungie fudged with Reach, and that's what EVERYONE said a month or two after it came out and before. And now that there is something new to bitch about all you people have to go tear it apart.

SAVE THE BS, you know your still going to play it. And if not, have fun on Black Ops LUL *trollface*

Yea no.

Only thing good to come out of this I think is the special "magnum" playlists. That will at-least be interesting. But reducing bloom and making the sword unblock-able is just pure insanity.

[Hazy]

Mmmm...I think about it as that 343 had good intentions, but based their descisions waaaaaay too much on the whiney ten year olds on the b.net forums.

The way it's starting to look, though, I don't think it's going to be too bad. The bloom's reduction, from what I heard, is only going to be by around twenty to fifteen percent of a subtraction. I'm still ticked about camo. I loved that AA.

[Fiery Grave]

The bloom's reduction, from what I heard, is only going to be by around twenty to fifteen percent of a subtraction. I'm still ticked about camo. I loved that AA.

that would defeat the purpose... its also a % scale they can move from 0% - 300%

[Maxdoggy]

Hazy is actually correct.

343i is pushing out the Title Update with "85%" bloom on for "normal" playlists. This is compared to the 100% bloom that we currently experience. They tested all different types of numbers and 85% worked the best to still discourage spamming but make the DMR more accurate - like it should be.

If you were to go into a classic Halo: CE playlist, you would then experience gametypes with 0% bloom on.

[cCrisis]

i feel the bleed through damage and making kill times faster by reducing or removing the bloom will make reach a must faster paced game and more like the arena style games that halo has been like in the past.


i am excited to try it none the less, hopefully it makes the game more enjoyable to play.

[SuRroundeD By 1]

i feel the bleed through damage and making kill times faster by reducing or removing the bloom will make reach a must faster paced game and more like the arena style games that halo has been like in the past.


i am excited to try it none the less, hopefully it makes the game more enjoyable to play.

Yes, very much agreed.

[Scarekro]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but this article contains a timeline with details for the Title Update and the new playlist for the update.

You can check it out here. (http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/headline/the-halo-bulletin-91411-/239029)