Debate #1 (Abortion)

[Nocte]

Alright so this debate will be over the idea of Pro-Life or Pro-Choice for Abortion.

Pro-Life Side:
- Debates on why Abortion should be completely out of question.


Pro-Choice:
- Debates on why women should be given the choice.


Everyone's first post must be them explaining why they are supporting either the Pro-Life or Pro-Choice side. There is no middle ground, you must pick a side and stick with it the entire debate. After you post one post explaining why you are supporting your side. You may then have free reign to debate other's views on the topic.


Rules and Regs:

No swearing unless it's to stress your views. I don't want an F-Bomb dropped every other sentence just because.
No flaming. (Trust me we can tell.)
Keep your reasons intelligent, it can simply be your opinion or backed up by facts.
**Remember I am watching, Ghost is watching, and now we have 3 Assassins looming in the dark.**



I am a supporter of Pro-Choice, because I strongly believe that in certain circumstances aborting a life might be able to make another life better. I also think that the public should not make the decision for an individual, that it is her choice to do what she wants with her body.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Pro-Choice. In cases of rape, it can remove much unneeded stress. That's pretty much the only time I find abortion to be logical. I hate it when people use it as a contreceptive ...

[Sangheili Ekim]

Ah, this is one subject I dont really argue over anymore. I have mixed feelings over it. This debate could go in any direction depending on how you use your words.

[EriRi 1138]

First and foremost, I'll go right out and say I don't think any opinion from any male, despite any reasoning or intellectual debate, should have any valid weight in the matter. It should be entirely up to females to decide whether it's right or wrong, considering it is their body.

Of course, there are MANY pros and cons to each side, I won't deny that. On one hand, you're taking away a life (or not, depending on how you define a fetus' existence) or you're doing what is right for you as an individual in a time in your life that will not be fair to the child in question if you can't put care, time, or effort into raising another human being. Or, alternatively, you could easily put the child up for adoption.

So yeah, I won't deny that there are multiple pros and cons, solutions and alternatives. If you want my vote, despite my gender, I'm Pro Choice, simply because when it comes down to it, it's a decision made by one individual, and that individual needs to decide what is best, whether that be best for them, or best for the child.

Pro Choice doesn't mean 'Anti Abortion' or 'I support abortion', it simply means the woman has the right to make her choice, because it's her body. I'm also not stating that my opinion is correct, because of course it isn't. It's an opinion.

Throwing in my 2 cents. Don't expect me to actually debate. I probably won't even repost in here unless it's to shut a kid up.

Enjoy the topic and play nice.

[silversleek]

i support pro-choice. i do only believe it should be used in emergency situations however. If a girl is raped, or gets pregnant in college, or at any time when she cannot fully support herself, yet alone a child, then it is perfectly acceptable to get an abortion. I don't neccessarily approve of those who use it as a contraceptive, but i find it is there choice to do so, as they might not be able to support a child.

pro-life is idiotic. the main arguement for it is that each individual fetus is still a life and should be given the same rights as any other human, including the right to life. (I won't bring science into this thread unless absolutely necessary.) However, it's my opinion that rather than saving a life, they're destroying two lives. if a woman and/or man can't support the kid, they may end up in poverty or on the street, which, while the child may live, it'll be a much lower quality life. I'd say more, but i promised no science for now, and that limits my arguements. so i'll let someone else have they're say.

[GhostHammer]

I'm pro choice for most of the reasons siad above.

Primarily, as Donkey suggested, in cases of Rape, one should not be forced to have a child with someone who has attacked them in such a horrible fashion. Ontop of that, a woman should be able to choose what happens to her own body, and that inside it, for that area is her domain. Also, as Eagle mentioned, sometimes having the child may not benefit the childs life. If someone has the child and cannot provide for the child properly, then that child may or may not have a good life, which can be the cause of a number of things.

In the end though, I am with Eri, it's Pro-Choice and such I have no "side" or Aborting or not, as I too feel it is for the woman to choose.

[silversleek]

this isn't much of a debate. everyones agreeing!

[MedeDust]

I'm not really going to get much in to it because there's not much of my logic that I need to use toward it, but, aborting a baby is murdering a baby, no matter if it was "Legally" done, There's no justification for killing a harmless creature. Don't want the baby? Wait until it is fully ready to leave your body and you might even change your mind about keeping it, but there is always the option of giving it away. Somebody who actually fully cares for living things will take it for sure.

[Vestige]

I believe in abortion. Why? Certain parents can not afford to raise their children. At that time in life and rape like donkey said.

[Twitch]

I support abortion due to if the child is going to be a down syndrome or some other disease no reason to put that kid through that

[Puba]

I support abortion due to if the child is going to be a down syndrome or some other disease no reason to put that kid through that ^^ wut he said no kid should be ever put through that

[GhostHammer]

^^ wut he said no kid should be ever put through that

Interestingly enough, if the world wanted to, we could eliminate most mental/physical disabilities by killing off all who currently have it, and preventing children with it to be born via abortion. Morally right? I'm not so sure. Efficient? Without a doubt. That could be a whole other debate.

[MedeDust]

Interestingly enough, if the world wanted to, we could eliminate most mental/physical disabilities by killing off all who currently have it, and preventing children with it to be born via abortion. Morally right? I'm not so sure. Efficient? Without a doubt. That could be a whole other debate.

That sounds like world domination to me.

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I believe that a woman has the right to abstain from sex, but if they deny themselves that right, they should be made to submit themselves to any and all consequences.

When the safety of the child is put into question, however, or when the woman was not given the right to refuse sex, that is when there is room for adjustment. I believe a woman should recieve a permit from the government in order to have an abortion, to ensure that she is doing it for the right reasons. There are, of course, problems involved in this solution, such as the fact that many politicians have religious obligations, but there should always be a way for someone to prevent a stupid woman from killing fetuses without cause. It might not be murder, but it's damn close to it.

Also, Ghosthammer, that's what Hitler wanted to do. As I recall, people didn't agree.

[GhostHammer]

That sounds like world domination to me.

Hush! Now back on topic...

Just curious Mede, what is your definition of "alive". You mentioned you felt no one should "murder a baby" so I'm curious how you define this.

[MedeDust]

Alive: Living, not dead

The fetus is very much a living thing even from the initial sperm and egg cell.

[Carpe Vexillum]

When is someone considered human?

I say when they can survive with minimal help on their own outside of the womb. If someone suffers a seizure, and is a vegetable we have the option to pull the plug.

Why because they lost their humanity, they lost their REASON and reason is what makes us human.

Grading something on potential is never good, no jobs, nothing in the world does that.

That's just my .2 cents.

[Elementarykills]

I believe they should have the option to abort if they wish to do so. Why, you ask? Well, there the one who will have to feed , nurse, sedate the gaming craving, and over all deal with the little guy/girl. Almost everyone woman who wants an abortion in because most of the time there in a hellish situation. Lets say they; got rape(as mentioned), are in a financial crisis, there not ready for the responsibly (Broken condom or one hell of a party). I believe that if someone wishes to die they should have the choice and should not be put in a unpleasant situation, this goes for pregnancy also (Thought I was getting off topic, Eh?). It's there choice not yours! Three my .3 cents :P

[Acid]

To a certain point in the development of the fetus I'm pro-choice.
(Can debate #2 be about Religion, I'm just itching to debate that.)

[Ex Zen Mute]

Pro-Choice. In cases of rape, it can remove much unneeded stress. That's pretty much the only time I find abortion to be logical. I hate it when people use it as a contreceptive ...I am pro-life in that aspect. There is adoption... Sure the kid may have a hard life, maybe they won't. You won't know unless they live a life.

[Vestige]

In Canada you can have an abortion up to date-of-birth. Also in Vancouver there is a hospital were if you can no longer support your child you can leave it there. That's what I have herd, Field Marshal Ghost is this correct? And what Twitch said no kid should have to be put through mental illness. Last thing, is teen pregnancy. There is a girl in my social 20-2 (Grade 11 slow pace class). Giving abortion/adoption as an option may let her finish school, and become a better mother in the future.

[Deathhawk]

My opinion:

Yes, it is taking away a life.
No, I don't care.

Chances are the baby's life would be terrible anyways.

Pro-Choice.

Of course, that's such a man-opinion that there's a huge lack of emotion (a common aspect for women) that Eri's right, it doesn't hold much if any weight. Or I'm just a bad person.

[zZ Dr K Zz]

When is someone considered human?

I say when they can survive with minimal help on their own outside of the womb. If someone suffers a seizure, and is a vegetable we have the option to pull the plug.

Why because they lost their humanity, they lost their REASON and reason is what makes us human.

Grading something on potential is never good, no jobs, nothing in the world does that.

That's just my .2 cents.
Most of what you say is true, but (and it's a big one) a person that has suffered a seizure or has become a vegetable has the knowledge to know of their grave situation. They most likely know that they will never live a normal life again and their only option is to have the plug pulled.

A fetus does not know this nor can it be informed of why it should be (for lack of a better word) disposed of.

It's tough to define human as everyone has their own explanation for it. (Like in the Matrix where Morpheus asks Neo "What is "real"? How do you define "real"?)

I don't have a strong opinion on this debate, because honestly I haven't been put into this situation. I have no first hand experience of it.

If I did have to give my explanation on this matter then I would say that it is up to the female on whether or not to have the baby. Then again, saying that it is only up to the female means that the male counterpart has absolutely no voice on the abortion which isn't right. If the male wants to keep baby and the female doesn't, then who do you listen too?

Why does the males' opinion matter less than that of the females'?

I just counter-argued my opinion. I realize that.

[GhostHammer]

In Canada you can have an abortion up to date-of-birth. Also in Vancouver there is a hospital were if you can no longer support your child you can leave it there. That's what I have herd, Field Marshal Ghost is this correct? And what Twitch said no kid should have to be put through mental illness. Last thing, is teen pregnancy. There is a girl in my social 20-2 (Grade 11 slow pace class). Giving abortion/adoption as an option may let her finish school, and become a better mother in the future.

This is correct. VGH will accept unwanted newborns. They have a place where you place the baby in a basket with blankets, and leave it with the nurse.

[silversleek]

Alive: Living, not dead

The fetus is very much a living thing even from the initial sperm and egg cell.

so every time you masturbate you kill millions.

[MedeDust]

Actually yes, you do.

[bazongaman502]

against it....

your killing a living things, people go to jail over that kind of stuff... allowing abortion is basically allowing doctors to kill living things intentionally....

Like, there are some reasons where i might say "ok, abortion is ok", however it doesnt fit a normal circumstance.

Abortion is wrong and is against my religion, if your not ready or fit to have a kid, wear a condom and take meds and stuff... if it happens by force, step up and deal with it, it may be hard, but maybe it happened for a reason. If i happens by accident, its your fault for not taking the right procedures to do so...

to basically sum up what im trying to say:

"allow abortion, and then you might as well allow murder"

:/ just the way i see it, and i know people will dissagree

[Nocte]

@Bazonga

Thats why Pro-Choice is the more logical answer. Life is only as precious as you make it, there are plenty of people on this Earth that don't deserve to live here. Humans are over-populating the world, and many of them seriously just waste space. So if you feel like you need to abort a child because you can't handle it then why should anyone tell you no?

A child that is planned between two people who love each other, is a beautiful thing. That child will grow up in a proper home with a loving family.

[bazongaman502]

When is someone considered human?

I say when they can survive with minimal help on their own outside of the womb. If someone suffers a seizure, and is a vegetable we have the option to pull the plug.

Why because they lost their humanity, they lost their REASON and reason is what makes us human.

Grading something on potential is never good, no jobs, nothing in the world does that.

That's just my .2 cents.

kinda offended by that Carpe, i actually had seizure's before and still do... iv actually been pronounced dead for 2 hours because of one... so, your saying im not human and i basically lost my chance to be a living human? in those situations, thats not their fault, its actually the carriers fault... and for what twitch said "we should just kill off the mentally disabled", no, thats another sign of murder and we all shun that... yes, its sad to see what they are going through, but they think its natural and that nothing is wrong with them...

do you seriously want a doctor to walk up to you and say "___(insert your name)___, i dont know how to tell you this, but you have a small dissability which will cause ____(insert an effect)___, due to us not wanting you to go through that, we are here to kill you." o.O

im sorry, there wasnt any fingure pointing in this, just a response to some of you

[Spartanbh]

I support abortion and at the same time, I am the kind of horrible person that wouldn't mind aborting kids with major disabilities. The Spartans did it and look how they turned out (well they technically didn't abort the babies...they just killed them right off the bat).

[bazongaman502]

@Bazonga

Thats why Pro-Choice is the more logical answer. Life is only as precious as you make it, there are plenty of people on this Earth that don't deserve to live here. Humans are over-populating the world, and many of them seriously just waste space. So if you feel like you need to abort a child because you can't handle it then why should anyone tell you no?

A child that is planned between two people who love each other, is a beautiful thing. That child will grow up in a proper home with a loving family.

i think you took what i said the opposite way lol

running off your statement Eagle, your basically saying, if we kill the dissabled, we are helping the world by lowering the population... while were at it (and using that theory) we might as well release every murderer out of jail right now, hand them a gun and tell them whatever they do within the next 24hrs will be ignored because they are "helping the world by lowering the worlds population" lol....

im not trying to be a dick Eagle, but your post was pretty odd lol

[Nocte]

If I were to go to a psychologist they would likely deem me to have the same mind-set as a mass murder, only I don't want to kill people....

I honestly think that if someone is disabled they should be able to make the choice to have their lives ended or not. I mean if I was paralyzed I wouldn't want to live. However many people like Stephen Hawkins have done great things even though they disabled...

Now back on Abortion, as I said before Human life is only as precious as you make it. If you wanna save a life, then go over to Africa and give money to make their lives better.

Stop worrying about the people who aren't on this Earth, and the ones who are and are living in hell.

[bazongaman502]

If I were to go to a psychologist they would likely deem me to have the same mind-set as a mass murder, only I don't want to kill people....

I honestly think that if someone is disabled they should be able to make the choice to have their lives ended or not. I mean if I was paralyzed I wouldn't want to live. However many people like Stephen Hawkins have done great things even though they disabled...

Now back on Abortion, as I said before Human life is only as precious as you make it. If you wanna save a life, then go over to Africa and give money to make their lives better.

Stop worrying about the people who aren't on this Earth, and the ones who are and are living in hell.

Eagle, seriously think about what you just said...

so its right to kill 1 and save 1? o.O

what about, "save 1, and help the other 1?"

killing is killing, weither if you think they are alive or not... sorry Eagle, my opinion stands and forever stands with abortion is wrong no matter what

[Nocte]

I understand your opinion, because my aunt and cousins are very religious infact we have gotten in some heated arguments in the past....

I'm just saying that looking at how over-populated this world is with humans, saving a life that is to come into existence doesn't need to be our main priority. Saving a life that is currently here is better.

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

I am personally Pro-Life.

My main argument is that the woman needed a man to conceive that child/fetus. Thus it is not solely her child. The father has a right to decided to keep the child or not. The woman carries the child but it is also up to the father to help protect & raise it. And if both parents decide to not keep the child then they are perfectly able to put it up for adoption. We should give each child a chance to live & thrive before they have none. At birth we all have the opportunity to become great, it only depends on the choices we make growing up.

[Static]

Abortion should be illegal and here are my reasons why: First off, NO MATTER HOW YOU GOT PREGNANT, you should NEVER ABORT and living thing. How the hell would you feel if your parents did that to you and said "eh, it's only 1 child" guess what, It adds up over time. You can give it up for adoption, surely someone in the world is looking to adopt a new born baby just put the child in an orphanage. Also, I can gurantee, if you actually so how the DESTROY the fetus in getting it out of the womb, I can say half of you would change your mind about it. I was Pro-Choice at once and then I saw it happen, it was the most terrifying thing on earth and it was not meant to be like that... It is cheating some one out of a life... and no one should lose the oppurtunity to experince that, no matter if they have a disabilty, some type of disease or anything.. Life is so precious and we only get 1 chance to live it...

[Kuhblam]

Remember, keep it civil gentlemen. Very touchy issue.

~Kuhblam

[GhostHammer]

Remember, keep it civil gentlemen. Very touchy issue.

~Kuhblam

Aye sir, watching like a hawk.

[bazongaman502]

Remember, keep it civil gentlemen. Very touchy issue.

~Kuhblam

you kinda had to of expected this "debate" to get out of hand, im suprised it hasnt already truefully...

Debates tend to get personal, let alone with such a touchy subject... the only thing people can seriously say is "i have my opinion, you have yours"....

good job you guys for not letting this get so far out of hand

[Choca Cola]

For most of the posts I've read here it boils down to this, I'm going to kill this child because he has a larger chance of a bad life. That's it, you're presuming his life will be bad, so you're going to end it before he comes out. That for me, is wrong.

[Acid]

Abortion should be illegal and here are my reasons why: First off, NO MATTER HOW YOU GOT PREGNANT, you should NEVER ABORT and living thing. How the hell would you feel if your parents did that to you and said "eh, it's only 1 child" guess what, It adds up over time. You can give it up for adoption, surely someone in the world is looking to adopt a new born baby just put the child in an orphanage. Also, I can gurantee, if you actually so how the DESTROY the fetus in getting it out of the womb, I can say half of you would change your mind about it. I was Pro-Choice at once and then I saw it happen, it was the most terrifying thing on earth and it was not meant to be like that... It is cheating some one out of a life... and no one should lose the oppurtunity to experince that, no matter if they have a disabilty, some type of disease or anything.. Life is so precious and we only get 1 chance to live it...
what if the woman who is giving birth will die? Abortion has saved the lives of plenty of woman. "Life is precious", why should we take the woman's and keep the babies(though in the case of abortion it's usually a fetus which has just started growing).
and lastly, a girl who has been raped or is a victim of incest should not have there teen-hood/life ruined by having to have a kid at such a young age.

[silversleek]

Abortion should be illegal and here are my reasons why: First off, NO MATTER HOW YOU GOT PREGNANT, you should NEVER ABORT and living thing.

technically, the fetus is not (usually, depends on where you live and what laws they have.) "living" when the abortion is performed.



How the hell would you feel if your parents did that to you


i wouldn't.



You can give it up for adoption, surely someone in the world is looking to adopt a new born baby just put the child in an orphanage.


you would be surprised. for every baby adopted there are quite a few citation needed babies that aren't, and end up homeless. there are also the many orphanages that abuse their children. surprisingly, you don't hear about them often.



Also, I can gurantee, if you actually so how the DESTROY the fetus in getting it out of the womb, I can say half of you would change your mind about it. I was Pro-Choice at once and then I saw it happen, it was the most terrifying thing on earth and it was not meant to be like that...


this is the internet. i've seen worse.



It is cheating some one out of a life... and no one should lose the oppurtunity to experince that, no matter if they have a disabilty, some type of disease or anything.. Life is so precious and we only get 1 chance to live it...

no one should, yet some will, abortions or not.
and gamer, my arguement is that if the woman can't support herself, and still relies on her parents, or a roomate, or if she still goes to school, in those cases the baby could end up bankrupting the woman or ripping away the potential for a university or even college level job.

[Static]

what if the woman who is giving birth will die? Abortion has saved the lives of plenty of woman. "Life is precious", why should we take the woman's and keep the babies(though in the case of abortion it's usually a fetus which has just started growing).
and lastly, a girl who has been raped or is a victim of incest should not have there teen-hood/life ruined by having to have a kid at such a young age.

I agree with you acid about the part if the women had to save her own life rather than the baby's life, that's very understandable. But if a teenage girl had her privacy invaded and she got pregnant, it does not give her the right to take away another life. At least put it up for adoption. Let me ask you this, would you rather see a women kill an "innocent life" or tuff the pain out and put the child up for adoption.

[Juggernaut9473]

i know im the last person to expect being on this side, being a father myself, but i am definitly pro-choice, men shoudnt even have to be asked for their opinions on this because its not their choice. all we can do as men is support the decision that the woman makes, if she wants an abortion then go for it, if she wants to give it up for adoption, support her, if she wants to keep it, you better damn well find a way to help her out if its yours, in the case of rape victims, very few women are ok with the idea of giving birth to their rapists baby, and there are some complications with some women, especially the younger mothers, where they might actually risk the chance of losing thier own life because of high risk pregnancies. yes adoption is an option for some people, but its not the right choice for everyone, but as stated earlier, men shouldnt even be talking about this, it should only be decided on the woman who is pregnant, when my ex was pregnant we explored many many options, abortion, adoption, keeping him, and we both decided we would feel a lot better keeping him, that was her choice...and i supported her in her decision.

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

Juggs I see where you're comming from. I myself am not a father yet, but if I find a girl that I end up falling in love with & I get her pregnant. It would be my child too. It's my blood. I would not want her to kill MY CHILD. I also would not like it if she walked out on me and my child after it was born. However I would do my best to raise it as a single father.

[Deathhawk]

Think of it this way. Women are LITERALLY carrying the fetus.

Because of this, they ultimately have the choice. They can walk down the street and just do it.

That doesn't mean there wont be repercussions with the male.
Therefore, if they want the impersonator's opinion, it is the woman's choice to consider it.

That's why it has to be their choice. Any reasonable woman [hah, like that exists] would be willing to consider their partner's opinion.

[RetRdidMunkie]

First and foremost, I'll go right out and say I don't think any opinion from any male, despite any reasoning or intellectual debate, should have any valid weight in the matter. It should be entirely up to females to decide whether it's right or wrong, considering it is their body..

^^^This

[RENGADE 0F FUNK]

http://i.imgur.com/rHzKl.jpg


^ I'm pro omelets.

[Acid]

Think of it this way. Women are LITERALLY carrying the fetus.

Because of this, they ultimately have the choice. They can walk down the street and just do it.

That doesn't mean there wont be repercussions with the male.
Therefore, if they want the impersonator's opinion, it is the woman's choice to consider it.

That's why it has to be their choice. Any reasonable woman [hah, like that exists] would be willing to consider their partner's opinion.
What this guys said.


But then again, I'm an atheists, so I eat babies.(Atheist Joke)

[Nocte]

Aye sir, watching like a hawk.

*Roger that Delta One we have GhostCam online as of....now.* ^.^

So it seems most of the Pro-Life supporters, keep referring to how precious life is. Life itself is not precious, was Adolf Hitler's life precious? What about Stalin's? What about the two kids who shot up Columbine? If their lives were precious, then I guess me and you have a major moral understanding. Life is only as precious as you can make it, once again I will say this. Stop worrying about the lives, that haven't even started and start worrying about the ones that are currently on this Earth and are suffering....

I don't know if many of you know this, but do you know why hunting season is regulated? (Lets go with deer.) The Deer population in an area grows top exponentially and thus can't survive, so the population has to either starve, fight, etc amongst themselves. So you have deer season which is to make sure that, the deer population doesn't exceed it's limits. Well you see human population from the beginning of human's existence has been getting larger and larger, except for when the Black Death hit. So you see as the human population gets bigger and bigger and bigger. We use more and more resources, I want you to look around you town. See how many new developments have been built where woods used to be. My old town is almost completely changed, because of how many developments it has in it now where acres of woods sat.


So if you really want to care to "save a life" look to Africa, where they have already living people who are dying because they can't eat...

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

I sorry eagle, I respect you, but regardless of how many babies get aborted or not forests will still be destroyed. As for human life as precious, everyone's life is. Hitler & stalin & even the 2 columbine fucks....we all are born innocent and loving. It is our upbringing that decides who who we are. Who we meet, what we learn, and how our parents raise us. Hitler had a chance to become as great as JFK or george Washington. But he was unfortunate enough to fight in WWI and live in a country that encountered one of the worst depressions in the world...even worse than our own in the 1930's. I am not justifying what hitler did, not by a long shot. But he had the charisma to lead his country to greatness, he just chose the wrong path because of the shit his country was put through. And it just happened to be an evil one the to this day, 70 years later we still hate. Which is completely understandable. My point is, no matter who you are you have the opportunity to have your name written in the history books, and nobody should have that chance taken from them.

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

Sorry if my text seems a little off, ive had some drinks tonight. But i still believe in what I have written even if it may sound. A little off.

[Kuhblam]

A lot of material fallacies I.E. invalid arguments going on.

I'm not going to jump in to the water here, but using Adolf or Stalin's life as an example is entirely subjective.

Just saying. Keep it clean, folks.

~Kuhblam

[GhostHammer]

http://i.imgur.com/rHzKl.jpg


^ I'm pro omelets.

All the beer in me made me laugh, but please this is an actual debate, and so far, one that has been void of BS and flamming, so please try and refrain Doug, props to all who have kept it to civil and under control, very happy about that!


A lot of material fallacies I.E. invalid arguments going on.

I'm not going to jump in to the water here, but using Adolf or Stalin's life as an example is entirely subjective.

Just saying. Keep it clean, folks.

~Kuhblam

They've had their warnging Blam, we're both watching them all. As Eagle said, Ghostcam as been activated!

[Acid]

Okay, so not many people are responding. Next debate topic then?

[Nocte]

haha alright alright.

Mods. Admins. Please close this.