Their Return!!!

[Reaper]

1621
They have fought in wars before and didn't like being excluded from this one. I ask only this: if you agree use my RoA signature pic as your signature. WE MUST SHOW SUPPORT FOR THIS BECAUSE ELITES ARE IN EVERY HALO. lets try to do this and i hope you forerunners agree. LETS BRING ELITES BACK TO FC!!!!!!!!!!

[Puba]

no lol jk jk hahah

[Choca Cola]

Sure I'll use it, Elites open up more opportunities and game options.

[Ex Zen Mute]

People found it unfair that they would regen health and run a tad faster.

[iFurrious]

People found it unfair that they would regen health and run a tad faster.

this, its just more fair if everyone is a spartan.

[GhostHammer]

Been discussed multiple times and multiples times has been a no. It's not going to change anytime soon, sadly.

[Choca Cola]

Got what I wanted, people can play as Elites, enough said.

[Gargoyle]

You can play as elites, however you can not play with abilities. If you want, pick stuff up. Only option. They let us play as elites, so I'll damn well take that compromise.

[Sangheili Ekim]

So many things can be said here. I dont think anyone in this community can argue about Elites as well as I can. I've been there, but in the end it never works out. I think the problem is that people really dont read the arguements I bring to the table. They would rather voice they're negative opinion, vote no, and leave. Im glad We're able to still play as Elites, but to me its an "at least" kinda thing.

Im kinda glad someone brought this up though. Seeing as how the war is over, Elite loat-outs for next war should definitely be up for descussion. Not here though. And if anyone wants to put 2 cents in about how elites should not have load-outs, your sentence better have more than 20-30 words. Anything short shouldn't even be looked at and considered. Just saying.

[Carpe Vexillum]

So many things can be said here. I dont think anyone in this community can argue about Elites as well as I can. I've been there, but in the end it never works out. I think the problem is that people really dont read the arguements I bring to the table. They would rather voice they're negative opinion, vote no, and leave. Im glad We're able to still play as Elites, but to me its an "at least" kinda thing.

Im kinda glad someone brought this up though. Seeing as how the war is over, Elite loat-outs for next war should definitely be up for descussion. Not here though. And if anyone wants to put 2 cents in about how elites should not have load-outs, your sentence better have more than 20-30 words. Anything short shouldn't even be looked at and considered. Just saying.

Yet you ignore and pose no fair reasonable argument to the obvious that only takes... one sentence. Tell us specifically how it will work and what is needed, don't just throw it to the dogs. You'll most likely get what you want if you do that and its reasonable.

[Sangheili Ekim]

Yet you ignore and pose no fair reasonable argument to the obvious that only takes... one sentence. Tell us specifically how it will work and what is needed, don't just throw it to the dogs. You'll most likely get what you want if you do that and its reasonable.

This isnt exactly an argument to begin with. No one has thrown anything at me yet to get me started. Of course people have in the past and I could take it from there. I guess what I was pointing out before was the fact that some or most of the people against load-out was that they care what I had to say.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I'd have to keep my opinion of no, based on the facts that Elites are no longer the same as Spartans. Sure, there are pros and cons to being an Elite, however it's my opinion that the pros outweigh the cons.

[Sangheili Ekim]

I'd have to keep my opinion of no, based on the facts that Elites are no longer the same as Spartans. Sure, there are pros and cons to being an Elite, however it's my opinion that the pros outweigh the cons.

This can be a good example right here. Donkey, Please tell me what you think the pros and cons are.

[VerbotenDonkey]

As far as what members from the forum have informed me:
Pros - Run faster, shields recharge faster, I feel like I'm forgetting something else ...
Cons - Larger target

Just off the top of my head.

[Silko]

Pros: They have stronger shields, health regen, jump higher, run faster, faster sheild recharge.

Cons: Bigger hit box

I think we can see why there is a balance issue. Also this is above 30 words.

[Sangheili Ekim]

Okay let me lay down the facts.
Melee: strength is equal between spartans and elites.
Shield system: From the moment of complete shield depletion it takes an Elite 8 seconds to fully recharge and a Spartan 9.
Health: Elites only have 5 blocks of health, Spartans have 9. An Elite makes up for this with self regeneration. Spartans use Health Box's.
Speed: Elites can run across a football field 1.50 seconds faster than a spartan.
Jump: Elites jump 1 foot higher.

Okay. None of this really matters. Elites are already alowed to be used in the wars. So I dont see what the big deal is with load-outs. As Garg, Andi and I have already said in the past, If we can grab weapons and armor abilitys placed on the maps then why not give us the same convenience anyone else has when they use a Spartan? The people using Elite Models in the battle are at a bigger disadvantage than you believe. And Belive me, because im the one using them. I get my butt whooped more when I play my elite than I do as a spartan. The problem is Spawning disadvantage. When I respawn Im put in the same position every single time. I start with an assualt rifle, no nades, and no armor ability's. If the spawn zone is Hot than most likely I will die because I cant sprint away or defend myself against people shooting at me with DMR's half way across the map. Im like a sitting Duck. Even at the beginning of the game im faced with a problem. Someone is definitely going to get to that power weapon or vehicle before me.

[Sangheili Ekim]

Pros: They have stronger shields, health regen, jump higher, run faster, faster sheild recharge.

Cons: Bigger hit box.

Your going to have to come at me with something better than pro and cons. Plus, Donkey already beat you to the punch.

[Silko]

Not completely true. Elites have the advantage in games like hill 30. For example, I was playing a match on Cardinal and half of the enemy team where elites. As we all know Hill 30 on that map has a lot of moments where everyone charges the hill and just sits in there in order to prevent it from being flipped. Because the Elite shield can take more dmg then a Spartan Shield they could sit in there longer then we could (all of us being spartans) we lost that game by 1 point. Elites already without load outs can tip a game to one teams favor, Elites with loads however will just make it unfair

[Silko]

Your going to have to come at me with something better than pro and cons.


Please tell me what you think the pros and cons are.

Ummm you just asked for them. What more do you want? you wanted good reasons why there should not be any elite loadouts. well there you go

[Sangheili Ekim]

Both shield sytems take the same amount of damage. I've already tested everything. As I said before, in terms of shields, the Elite shield charges a second faster then spartans. None of the pros Elites have make the game inconsistant or unbalanced. Invasion is a good example. Silko, I remember that Game of Hill 30 on Cardinal because i was in. I remember going negative. My roll in that game was to secure the hill and contest it. I dont believe my shields had anything to do with my contest of the hill. Plus, Victory by one second? I doubt Two of us using elites had anything to do with that. Hill 30 is matter of strategy.

[Relapsive]

Just pointing out double post much?

[Nocte]

I just wanna say that I'm pretty sure I was in a game that ended Elites having loadouts and the only thing we hated, because we were able to look past the regen and their faster speed.

It was the fucking stickies that made me hate the bastards, take the stickies away and things get pretty balanced...

Elites would be a nice addition to change up the gameplay, stop bitching about it and start practicing with having elites so you get used to them.

Alot of arguments tend to go back to how unbalanced they are, and being faster be 2 seconds isn't much if we play LESS MLG BASED MAPS and MORE WAR-SIM BASED MAPS!

So lets fix the real underlying issue, forgers need to start creating war-sim feeling maps and not these boring symmetrical MLG based maps....

Trust me Elites aren't terribly unbalanced, you guys just take things way to far. Stickies were the biggest unbalancing issue, due to the simple fact that starting with grenades you can place very well, that stick to vehicles, and such makes things very unbalanced.

[Fuzzy]

Forging is not easy nor a quick process, I do not breathe out maps like air it takes a month minimum of planning and making the concept of the map and than it takes a good week to forge. If you would like to draw some concept art or even forge some maps yourself go ahead but we only have a minimum amount of forgers in this community.

[Nocte]

Forging is not easy nor a quick process, I do not breathe out maps like air it takes a month minimum of planning and making the concept of the map and than it takes a good week to forge. If you would like to draw some concept art or even forge some maps yourself go ahead but we only have a minimum amount of forgers in this community.

I know, haha I've forged things before. If I had the time I would solely do it just to pump out maps that have that war-sim feel. Currently I don't though :(

I'm just saying we need to move away from those types of maps.....

[Mythonian]

If you want, provide ideas that someone can use as a basis for a map. I've been making a few, and if you have an idea for a theme or style of a map, feel free to suggest it. That way, the few that we are actually able to make will be more realistic.

[Sangheili Ekim]

I got three maps in the making, none come close to "MLG" gameplay ;)

As for Elites, we don't even want stickies. Just give Elites the same exact load-outs as everyone else. If you want to call "Unbalanced" on a difference if 1-2 seconds, there's something wrong with you, not the game. In fact, it looks like the whole issue here is time. Do you some of you actually think the 15 seconds it takes me to find a DMR and ability will make ALL the Difference?

[Nocte]

I actually proposed using Covie weapons on the loadouts just grenades being universally frags...

[Sangheili Ekim]

I actually proposed using Covie weapons on the loadouts just grenades being universally frags...

This was argued last time we talked about Elites. The problem (of course :/) is that some people didn't agree with covie weapons because of slight differences. The Plasma repeater, which would be given with Evade, can take someone's shield out quicker than an AR could. The Needle rifle would be with Sprint. That's not as bad, but some may argue that the Needle rifle is more accurate long-distance than a DMR.

Theses things shouldn't pose a real problem though. The weapons can be picked up on the map by anyone who wants to use them as well.

[Nocte]

The AR kicks you faster when your shields are down....

Another problem with this community no one kicks back and just plays to have a good time with buddies anymore. It's all about win win! WIN!

[Sangheili Ekim]

The AR kicks you faster when your shields are down....

Yeah. Plasma eats more shield, bullets eat more health.

[MedeDust]

I like when people say "anymore". Reality is "the good ole days" are now only a small fraction of the time FC has been around. Seriously forget it and learn to accept the fact that everything is actually better than before.

[Sangheili Ekim]

I like when people say "anymore". Reality is "the good ole days" are now only a small fraction of the time FC has been around. Seriously forget it and learn to accept the fact that everything is actually better than before.

What parts are better than before? I personally don't have a problem the way things are done in this community, but I haven't been around as long as some of the other members. The only problem I have is the one I'm fighting over in this topic.

[Carpe Vexillum]

Elites:

Health Lower
*Disadvantage

Elites run faster.
*An Elite with Sprint would be unfair.
**An Elite with evade seeing as evade is such a smiled upon powerful ability would be unfair.

Elites are bigger
*They are bigger targets - disadvantage.
**They are also harder to kill up close.

Shields recharge faster.
*Enormous advantage with Reach as is.

In Halo Reach the fact that you have shields is more than a blessing. Halo Reach as it is with NO BLEED, it is almost instant death to have no shields.

If you are fighting an elite with evade and a Plasma repeater, all he has to do is shoot for what... 2 seconds; get your shields down and evade in for the melee. The spartan does what? AR/DMR/Pistol/Frag and die.

Its not about winning its about being fair, so the people who sit back don't get frustrated and whine.

It works as is, it looks to be a useless complication to how we run things in FC. If you can look at all of the pro's / con's and find a solution to them your request would be considered more. As it is, you are not looking into it enough.

[Sangheili Ekim]

When you bring all those things to the table you make it more complicated than it really is. Anyone can make a scenario like you just did with the evade and repeater. But there's actually several ways a fight like that could go down. If both player are quick enough, they could both melee eachother at the moment of shield depletion and die.

And it not like I was asking for a repeater in the first place. I specifically requested that elite load-outs are identical to the Spartans. That would eliminate the very play you just pointed out. Even if with evade and repeater, though, a Spartan could do the same exact thing anyways.

I have never used an Elite before for it's so called advantages because theres nothing significant about the pros or cons. If you want to talk about fair game then load-outs are essential to both character models. If elites are already allowed in the battles then there's absolutely no reason to deny Elite users there right to a simple load-out. As I keep saying over and over again, we can just pick up weapons and armor abilitys on the map anyways. We want the convenience everyone else gets.

[Carpe Vexillum]

The FACTS of the game are complicated, and if your unwilling to deal with that then don't ask for something. If the elite still has shields the spartan will die and your elite wont, I don't get what your trying to say. The scenarios that weigh towards the unfair side outweigh the others. You can pick up weapons and abilities, but honestly, in a heated game... where do you find the time? That argument is illogical. The small pro's added to the armor abilities = unfair. A-lot of people use spartans and every time, the people I have been around and myself run into an elite, its never fair, thankfully kids who use elites most of the time are BK's.

Plus there are issues with maps, believe it or not but an extra foot... is a-lot.

All I am asking is for you to tell me how it would work specifically in a fair way.


You cant win with these people. I give up, if you wont listen to reason then I am not talking to you.

[Kuhblam]

Enough, people.

The War Council for the time being will stick by it's current decision to not supply elite loadouts. We, me in particular, feel they unbalance gameplay and will bring more trouble than they are worth.

That being said, it's not to say we won't look at it again in the future. Right now, consider it out of the question.

~Kuhblam

[VerbotenDonkey]

Why don't we do some test runs to check it out? Like how we test maps, why don't we do some testing with Elites/Spartans mixed. Since neither side really has hardcore evidence, it's all scenario-based.

[Andimion]

Carpe, ill open by stating your tone is aggravating. I've been watching this topic and all I've seen from you is a more childish denial of Sangheili's topic.

With both the pros and cons its simple to see that this "advantage" eliets have over spartans is both minuscule and irrelevant.

Pros: Faster, Shields Gen 1 second faster, jump 1 foot higher, health regenerates at a low rate

Cons: Bigger target/hitbox larger/ stealth nearly useless due to size, can not pick up health pack for instant heal, some armor abilities are altered negatively.

As far as I'm concerned, the differences aren't ever noticed in gameplay regardless. You just use the knowledge of the differences to whine about a loss. Any real player knows the difference is absolutely nothing. The only thing noticeable is the natural size difference.

Anyways. You know my opinion. Eliets would breath some fresh life into the wars.

[Nocte]

The reason why I fight for this side is because the wars are as boring as a virgin on the first date. So as Andi said something needs to breath new life into this place for next war or we expect to lose ALOT MORE people.....

[Reaper]

I proposed this idea solely for the fact that i'm an elite person. it pissed me off when their were no elites in this war and if their had been i could have easily gotten members from my old clan (all elite clan) to join the community. I'm saying this mainly cause if the community were to allow elites back then you could get elite lovers to join the community.

AND WHO THE HELL SHOULD CARE ABOUT PROS/CONS?!? if your saying all this crap as your excuse then your basically saying your scared of fighting elites in Halo.

[Puba]

I proposed this idea solely for the fact that i'm an elite person. it pissed me off when their were no elites in this war and if their had been i could have easily gotten members from my old clan (all elite clan) to join the community. I'm saying this mainly cause if the community were to allow elites back then you could get elite lovers to join the community.

AND WHO THE HELL SHOULD CARE ABOUT PROS/CONS?!? if your saying all this crap as your excuse then your basically saying your scared of fighting elites in Halo.there not saying it as a exuse they saying it because of gameplay wise

[Carpe Vexillum]

Carpe, ill open by stating your tone is aggravating. I've been watching this topic and all I've seen from you is a more childish denial of Sangheili's topic.

With both the pros and cons its simple to see that this "advantage" eliets have over spartans is both minuscule and irrelevant.

Pros: Faster, Shields Gen 1 second faster, jump 1 foot higher, health regenerates at a low rate

Cons: Bigger target/hitbox larger/ stealth nearly useless due to size, can not pick up health pack for instant heal, some armor abilities are altered negatively.

As far as I'm concerned, the differences aren't ever noticed in gameplay regardless. You just use the knowledge of the differences to whine about a loss. Any real player knows the difference is absolutely nothing. The only thing noticeable is the natural size difference.

Anyways. You know my opinion. Eliets would breath some fresh life into the wars.

1# It's 'Elites'

2# Don't try to push anything under the table: Any real player? Common...

3# Childish? I have been stating facts, and no one has come up with solutions. All I have gotten are childish rebuttals.

4# The war council already made their choice, what are your trying to gain from posting so ignorantly?


AND WHO THE HELL SHOULD CARE ABOUT PROS/CONS?!? if your saying all this crap as your excuse then your basically saying your scared of fighting elites in Halo.

People who want to make sure the war's are fair. That last part doesn't make any sense.

[Silko]

What I am now seeing is the Pro elite side are backed up into a wall and they are now willing to use childish insults to discredit the anti-elite side. "Any true player"?? "we are too scare to fight elites"?? Grow up.

[Raider0614]

hearken for these are the words of a common member and a Dreadrogue. After thinking about it i think elites would be inappropiate as to the gameplay and balance. It was different in the Halo 2 and 3 were they equal to spartans but with added variables, it seems to be uncompromising. Although the balance and fairness of the community's games would be disrupted if passed, the matter on Elites should be discussed further among members rather than being swept under carpet. As for higher members already declaring no on the matter, they should remember about the community. My suggestion would be to make a poll to gather the community's opinion. We are a community and no title or "pretty" picture under your username will ever change that fact. Vote puba1228 for field marshall jk but consider the previous stuff

[Silko]

The buck stops at the WC. If WC says no then it is no. Period. There are few who want the elites and many who do not. So even if we did your poll the results would be the same.

[Nocte]

We can still discuss the issue, it isn't as if it is illegal for us to do so...

[Puba]

We can still discuss the issue, it isn't as if it is illegal for us to do so... agreed i say do the poll just to see how likes the idea and who doesnt it donsnt hurt to do it

[Puba]

hearken for these are the words of a common member and a Dreadrogue. After thinking about it i think elites would be inappropiate as to the gameplay and balance. It was different in the Halo 2 and 3 were they equal to spartans but with added variables, it seems to be uncompromising. Although the balance and fairness of the community's games would be disrupted if passed, the matter on Elites should be discussed further among members rather than being swept under carpet. As for higher members already declaring no on the matter, they should remember about the community. My suggestion would be to make a poll to gather the community's opinion. We are a community and no title or "pretty" picture under your username will ever change that fact. Vote puba1228 for field marshall jk but consider the previous stuffROTFL XD

[Andimion]

Any true player, any true player of halo. Eliets are a part of halo are they not?

I'm not in any way being ignorant. I'm contributing to the topic as was respectively requested. Don't like my opinion? Take your "ignorant" views somewhere else. This was an open topic and I may express myself openly. Don't take this topic into a disrespectful flame war, I've already grown to lose my patients for both Carpe and Silko. I'm not going to say why, its un needed.

[Carpe Vexillum]

When discussion turns to insults, there is a problem.
Andi has shown he cannot handle open conversation without getting hostile. And he only provided an ignorant close-minded opinion. Then proceeded to push buttons.


We can discuss if everyone can be even minded and give full attention and answers to each side. =]
I am happy to discuss this, and I have been trying to; but no one has answered my questions =[

[Raider0614]

Silko i understand your irritance from childish retorts and Reaper himself (lol dont get me started) but if not a poll then more threads. You bring up good points that i will openly listen to but in return maybe you should do so as well. Casting the ideal is aside. The funniest thing about this is that i disagree with elites in the fc war but i still dont like see the idea shut off. This is a community and many more will rise to the occasion to ask themselves "Who was Ghosthammer when he joined? Who was Silko?" You were all common members before you must recall being the little guy who wanted to play Halo. I disagree not on the matter but on how the matter is being treated. i am discussing this with you calmly listening to pink floyd and chilling and if u say no then i will relax and watch tv. BUT there will always be more people who willl rise in a immature fury i.e. Reaper. I am but a martyr for the masses. Many shall rise. We are but a community. I wish u luck Silko on future threads (im not a sarcastic troll btw)

[Puba]

Silko i understand your irritance from childish retorts and Reaper himself (lol dont get me started) but if not a poll then more threads. You bring up good points that i will openly listen to but in return maybe you should do so as well. Casting the ideal is aside. The funniest thing about this is that i disagree with elites in the fc war but i still dont like see the idea shut off. This is a community and many more will rise to the occasion to ask themselves "Who was Ghosthammer when he joined? Who was Silko?" You were all common members before you must recall being the little guy who wanted to play Halo. I disagree not on the matter but on how the matter is being treated. i am discussing this with you calmly listening to pink floyd and chilling and if u say no then i will relax and watch tv. BUT there will always be more people who willl rise in a immature fury i.e. Reaper. I am but a martyr for the masses. Many shall rise. We are but a community. I wish u luck Silko on future threads (im not a sarcastic troll btw) and i related to this man......

[Carpe Vexillum]

Silko i understand your irritance from childish retorts and Reaper himself (lol dont get me started) but if not a poll then more threads. You bring up good points that i will openly listen to but in return maybe you should do so as well. Casting the ideal is aside. The funniest thing about this is that i disagree with elites in the fc war but i still dont like see the idea shut off. This is a community and many more will rise to the occasion to ask themselves "Who was Ghosthammer when he joined? Who was Silko?" You were all common members before you must recall being the little guy who wanted to play Halo. I disagree not on the matter but on how the matter is being treated. i am discussing this with you calmly listening to pink floyd and chilling and if u say no then i will relax and watch tv. BUT there will always be more people who willl rise in a immature fury i.e. Reaper. I am but a martyr for the masses. Many shall rise. We are but a community. I wish u luck Silko on future threads (im not a sarcastic troll btw)

This topic has been brought up so many times before. And almost all the threads have been shut down. This community cant seem to handle the topic, as much as we would like to. So I am dipping out, my points are out there and un-answered. Have fun =p

[Raider0614]

[QUOTE=Carpe Vexillum;49266]When discussion turns to insults, there is a problem.
Andi has shown he cannot handle open conversation without getting hostile. And he only provided an ignorant close-minded opinion. Then proceeded to push buttons.


We can discuss if everyone can be even minded and give full attention and answers to each side. =]

Im glad to see another member handling the situation in a mature fashion. But remember you are simply the enemy of my enemy and i disagree with the elites. I am open to hearing your reasons. Vote for puba1228

I am glad to see another member who is

[Silko]

[QUOTE=Carpe Vexillum;49266] Vote for puba1228

LOL whats up with the political propaganda

[Raider0614]

lol my bad my lil cousin puba is the one who got me in the fc war and he seems to know alot about all this ghosthammer field marshall stuff so im just messing with him...
On another note i read your older stuff on the previous pages and i see your point stat wise. I still hold my decision on no elites but some red members also brought up the idea of testing it out and it bringing "fresh air" to the war. My curiosity leads to how much members want elites because thats what really matters in my opinion.

[GhostHammer]

The buck stops at the WC. If WC says no then it is no. Period. There are few who want the elites and many who do not. So even if we did your poll the results would be the same.


This topic has been brought up so many times before. And almost all the threads have been shut down. This community cant seem to handle the topic, as much as we would like to. So I am dipping out, my points are out there and un-answered. Have fun =p

WC has said no at this time, and as Silko kindly and correctly pointed out, the buck does indeed stop at the WC.

Carpe, it's not just this topic, there have been a few. You all want to know why there are so many problems and issues in FC? It's because of things like this, where you come into a thread and act like 5 years olds becuase certain people can't have a normal conversation. Grow up.