Education Reform

[Nocte]

Alright, so yet another topic to discuss education reform in America. Perhaps Canada, however I am not familiar with how that system is run.

[d3ad1te]

Need more education. America is falling behind.

[Juggernaut9473]

Need more education. America is falling behind.
sad but true

[Nocte]

I'll post tomorrow when I'm actually awake and feeling passionate about this topic.

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

We need to get rid of teacher unions. I cant tell you how many times I've had a shitty teacher and the school couldn't fire them.
Also California needs to fix their budget and actually fund their public schools...

[Silko]

I'll post tomorrow when I'm actually awake and feeling passionate about this topic.

Please have a coherent argument this time. That anti gun argument was Fail

[d3ad1te]

Yea silko...


In short Guns are not bad M'Kay

[Silko]

Yea silko...

Hey that comment was meant to be a piss poor joke not a counter point!


When in fact guns are very deadly even when being handled by professionals.

My comment still beats this as a counter claim for anti gun argument

[Gargoyle]

You know what all schools need? Some form of money class.

I read a poll somewhere that said 52% of all seniors last year got a failing grade on a basic finacial test.

[Yehsus]

I think education is very important. Otherwise we'd have a bunch of Lococrazy's running around in this world.

[Juggernaut9473]

I think education is very important. Otherwise we'd have a bunch of Lococrazy's running around in this world.

win

[Nocte]

Alright well most of you know or should know, that we are going into/in the Tech Age now, and other countries are pumping out really intelligent people... The U.S.'s primary education system is shit. While it's secondary education system is either one of the best or the best in the world. (yay college!)

So here is where I say we socialize the schools with a competitive side, how schools were ran before is that the smart kids who put hard work into their school work they passed. Everyone else either A. Did the bare minimum to pass B. Dropped out.

Which long ago you could do that because America had a lot of jobs that you didn't need a higher education to obtain.

Now though, we need to make sure that students pass, but at the same time we need to teach them to work hard. Which we don't do, a few of my teachers make students work and their response is "oh that teacher is a bitch... bleh... bleh...".

We need to remove standardized testing, and replace it with an open ended learning process. I never learned about JFK's assassination in my U.S. History class because of the Ohio Graduation Test. To me thats bullshit. Teachers had to cram so much shit down our throats my sophomore year just so we could pass that stupid ass test, the worst part is that it wasn't given at the end of the year. It was given at the end of the 3rd quarter...

So...

1. Remove Standardized Testing

2. Create an open ended learning program

3. Make it so all students can learn, but at the same time, those who put in the hard work are able to do so with rewards.

I'll think more.

[Mythonian]

So, basically you want the exact same thing we have now, except remove the standardized testing...?

We already have it where teachers try, although often fail, to make students work hard, and are too focused on passing students.



You seem to think that socializing the system will allow students who refuse to listen to teachers and rarely do their work will suddenly become interested in what they're being taught and will want to learn... There is no way that would happen.

Socializing education even more than it already is is about the opposite from what we need to do. The entire federal Department of Education and nation-wide testing needs to be removed.

The entirety of the education system needs to be either state or local if we're going to improve anything. Instead of being forced to follow a standard curriculum because they need to suit a standardized test, they will be able to adjust what they are teaching and either teach what they like best or what their students can learn the best.


You want to know why that will work? Well, because that is how colleges and universities do things. They don't follow a government-mandated curriculum, they don't need to teach for standardized testing (mostly), and the professors have a wide range of things they can change throughout the class.

You say our secondary education system is very good, and it is. However, the reason it is good is because it is NOT socialized hardly at all. Each college does things differently from every other college and are, mostly, owned and operated without any government interference or mandates.

The curricula are entirely determined by the actual professors and people who have worked in their field for most of their lives. I've had professors completely change what they are teaching half-way through a semester just because they needed to cover some other material which was important to our understanding. If the system was socialized, they wouldn't be able to do that.


I think that either you misunderstand what makes our secondary education system so good, or you don't understand what socializing it would mean. I think maybe you mean to use a different word instead of "socialize". Maybe "privatize"?

[d3ad1te]

All I know is. I'm not as smart as I could be.

Is that the primary schools fault or my own? Probably my own.

[Nocte]

Fuck I guess it kinda is... Well either way, privatizing schools would be bad. However I would really love for High School to be setup like college is. Only you can't privatize our primary education. That would equal more people going into more debt.

[Mythonian]

All I know is. I'm not as smart as I could be.

Is that the primary schools fault or my own? Probably my own.

I'd say it's partially both. The school can do a better job, and I'm saying that getting rid of national standardization would help, because it would give the teachers more leeway in making things interesting.

A teacher who is able to make things interesting for their students almost always ends up with those students learning more of the material.


Fuck I guess it kinda is... Well either way, privatizing schools would be bad. However I would really love for High School to be setup like college is. Only you can't privatize our primary education. That would equal more people going into more debt.

Privatizing does not mean monetizing. xD

I meant that removing the federal government's interactions (namely the curricula, testing, and No Child Left Behind) would help improve the quality of the school. Also, the removal of Department of Education would slightly reduce our deficits.

That is, sort of, changing it from "public" to "private" which is why I used "privatizing".


However, now I realize that it also isn't the right word, since they would be different from private schools. I didn't realize I was implying that all of them would become private schools, what I meant was just moving the control from the federal government to the local governments.

Already, 95% of school funding comes from local property taxes, so money wouldn't suddenly become an issue. The parents would not need to pay the schools or anything; the only real difference would be the lack of federal control.

[Nocte]

I'd say it's partially both. The school can do a better job, and I'm saying that getting rid of national standardization would help, because it would give the teachers more leeway in making things interesting.

A teacher who is able to make things interesting for their students almost always ends up with those students learning more of the material.



Privatizing does not mean monetizing. xD

I meant that removing the federal government's interactions (namely the curricula, testing, and No Child Left Behind) would help improve the quality of the school. Also, the removal of Department of Education would slightly reduce our deficits.

That is, sort of, changing it from "public" to "private" which is why I used "privatizing".


However, now I realize that it also isn't the right word, since they would be different from private schools. I didn't realize I was implying that all of them would become private schools, what I meant was just moving the control from the federal government to the local governments.

Already, 95% of school funding comes from local property taxes, so money wouldn't suddenly become an issue. The parents would not need to pay the schools or anything; the only real difference would be the lack of federal control.

Ya when you said privatized I thought, students have to pay their way through like college.

The problem with property tax is that rich schools stay rich in rich cities, while poor schools stay poor in poor cities.

Which from that people say the voucher system, but parents can add money to those vouchers. So private schools can simply raise the amount of money they want, thus causing the same problems over and over again.

My school for instance gave all of their students Macbooks, but we do jack shit with them... expect for papers and elective work.

I would love our school to do this: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/education/mooresville-school-district-a-laptop-success-story.html

And that is what I mean by socializing the schools. I don't mean allowing NCLB to stay in effect.

Their is a kid in my school district, who is dumb as fuck and lazy as hell. He went to the "Board" a product of No Child Left Behind. He is suppose to be a Freshman and because of how easy the "Board" is. (You take easy tests on a computer for only 4 hours a day.) He is now considered a Junior, yet if you were to drop him into a Junior Chemistry or Algebra II class. He wouldn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

That pisses me off.

And these kids get their diplomas that way. I say they should only get a GED for doing it.