My concerns/views.

[Nocte]

Ghosthammer tells my group we're dirt, he gets a smack on the wrist. Jai says it back, he gets banned.

Making sure that one's clear here...

Bump. Seeing that no one seemed to notice this -___-

As for the "whining" it strikes me as funny how the higher ups always have some childish term for when someone says something that goes against what they've been doing. It isn't whining, it's wondering why the hell people weren't interviewed that have been voicing their concerns about OP: Firestorm. (Sure a few have, but the rest haven't said a word about it.)

As for not being able to play with your friends for 2 hours... Those two hours are suppose to be the biggest time to play with your friends for the entire week!

I can understand you want people to expand their friends list, (Thank God you realized that "this place is a community not a friends list" is just bullshit.) but forcing people into expanding their friends list isn't going to expand their friends list. It's just gonna piss people off, because it's one thing to tell someone to do something. It's different to tell them how to go about how they do things on XBL. People sign up to play with friends in a squad on battle nights, or people sign up to look for new friends to play with on battle night. Not be torn from the group of friends they built up in this community.

I proposed the whole squad split up months ago, and the entire community was against it. The only reason why it happened now is because back then I was a private in BLUE army who couldn't wave my hand and have it done without question.

Jai was right on how Cody leads, he is a dictator. However he isn't hitler. A. Cody is jewish... B. Cody has never killed anyone. (I think o.O) C. Cody came from a generation where that was how things were done.

All of these people saying deal with it. I either know or would think they came from that generation. However we are dealing with a new generation of FC. (No this isn't "vets vs. new guys" this is the honest to god truth. This generation has been brought up where they do have a say, and that is good. Leaders listening to the community makes the community happy. Which is what we strive for. We shouldn't strive for telling half the community or more if they don't like it get lost... It's all good to do it to a minority of people, because they can be replaced over a short period of time. Telling half the community to leave will not be fixed in a short amount or time. Recruiting isn't as easy as it once was.

The one things the older generation stressed on before they reclaimed the leadership of this community is how broken it was, well it's a whole hell of a lot more broken now then it was before. You won't be able to make the people who are going against you bow down to your feet and obey. Simply because that isn't how they were taught this community goes. They want answers, not cause we said so.

This place has gone from a dictatorial leadership style to democratic style slowly, and it just jumped back to dictatorial style very fast.

Now onto "knowing your place".

When Kuhblam held his meeting to angrily express his views and he did it in the upmost disrespectful way. We listened and didn't pull that card, infact I think that if the people who wanted to leave that meeting did. The outcome would have been the same, we all would be sitting in this mess we call a community.

Infact I do remember Kuhblam making decisions as a Respected Member. The people who aided him making those decisions will deny it, saying, no they made the decisions when Kuhblam all but pulled the trigger on deciding them.

So here is what I'll say to the people who want to rebel and go against. It won't work, they don't care, and they won't listen.

RaZ has a heart to this community, but he doesn't make decisions without speaking with Ghost, Kuhblam, Spartan, and I think Eriri is still a Forerunner. Right?

Well Ghost, Kuhblam, Spartan, and Eriri all supported OP: Firestorm. Infact Ghost and Kuhblam were the framers for RaZ's return. Ghost's report on me and Kuhblam's HC meeting.

Those are all like minded people in the group deciding how this place is run, and my experience from like minded people being in the same group. They tend to make decisions without seeing the other side or being blind to others views.

Oh and just a heads up. The last time this many topics have been closed due to disrespectful opinions and views was when I feed the vets. vs. new guys conflict. Which honestly in our current state I could foresee coming back. However not by me, I don't care enough to start that much chaos.

[ReiBear]

I don't know you eagle but I love you so much right now lol

[d3ad1te]

SPECULATION

You cannot even comment how how its broken now since we haven't even seen the outcome.



As for not being able to play with your friends for 2 hours... Those two hours are suppose to be the biggest time to play with your friends for the entire week!
Really? lmao.

Please use your brain. Do any of your "arguments" against OP Firestorm hold any validity? We know for a fact that the last war was lopsided. Something needed to change. It changed. Now we are waiting to see if that was a positive or negative change.


We shouldn't strive for telling half the community or more if they don't like it get lost... It's all good to do it to a minority of people, because they can be replaced over a short period of time. Telling half the community to leave will not be fixed in a short amount or time. Recruiting isn't as easy as it once was

Says who? Reread what you wrote. Because it honestly makes no sense. Nor do you have any evidence to back it.

[Anarchy]

SPECULATION

You cannot even comment how how its broken now since we haven't even seen the outcome.


Dude... I'm REALLY not trying to be a prick here, but if you look at the two armies, it's so obvious BLUE has tons more skill...

I would legitimately bet my rank, vCash, Xbox 360, Halo: Reach disk, and position in this community that BLUE with its current members will utterly destroy REDD with its current members.


@EAGLE
Well said on everything. I'm going along with things, even if I show my distaste.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Everyone who says its just two hours is ... I don't even know a word.

Your Unit should be your FAMILY, your HOME, and a large part of your XBOX LIVE EXPERIENCE. The COMMUNITY is for making friends and branching out, the War Sim should be for War and fighting along side a set group of people. Its more than two hours, if you're doing it CORRECTLY. It should be all week, between practices, skirmishes, and hanging out and knowing each other.

[ReiBear]

Everyone who says its just two hours is ... I don't even know a word.

Your Unit should be your FAMILY, your HOME, and a large part of your XBOX LIVE EXPERIENCE. The COMMUNITY is for making friends and branching out, the War Sim should be for War and fighting along side a set group of people. Its more than two hours, if you're doing it CORRECTLY. It should be all week, between practices, skirmishes, and hanging out and knowing each other.
EDITED:Because I am a moron lol
I agree! Not everyone in the unit are going to get along which will indeed show that in combat. You can not have team work without a well coordinated team and you can not have a well coordinated team with people who do not get along. Obviously if people play with people they are comfortable with will result in a much more pleasant experience and maintain order within the community as a whole.

[Anarchy]

But what you need to understand is that not everyone in the unit are going to get along which will indeed show that in combat. You can not have team work without a well coordinated team and you can not have a well coordinated team with people who do not get along. Obviously if people play with people they are comfortable with will result in a much more pleasant experience and maintain order within the community as a whole.
Rei.... He's agreeing with us....

[Maxdoggy]

Everyone who says its just two hours is ... I don't even know a word.

Your Unit should be your FAMILY, your HOME, and a large part of your XBOX LIVE EXPERIENCE. The COMMUNITY is for making friends and branching out, the War Sim should be for War and fighting along side a set group of people. Its more than two hours, if you're doing it CORRECTLY. It should be all week, between practices, skirmishes, and hanging out and knowing each other.

This, my friends, is true. Well said, good sir.

[ReiBear]

Rei.... He's agreeing with us....

Shhhh....I knew that(totally lying) My bad...maybe I should just read everything before replying lol

[d3ad1te]

Dude... I'm REALLY not trying to be a prick here, but if you look at the two armies, it's so obvious BLUE has tons more skill...

I would legitimately bet my rank, vCash, Xbox 360, Halo: Reach disk, and position in this community that BLUE with its current members will utterly destroy REDD with its current members.


@EAGLE
Well said on everything. I'm going along with things, even if I show my distaste.

Ok bet then?

Again that's called SPECULATION. If what your saying is true that NOTHING truly changed and OP firestorm was a complete disaster. We won't know until the war starts.

[Gargoyle]

Let me explain the quote "FC is a community, not a friend's list" Because all of you do not understand a damn part of the quote. It's in my sig because I said it, I made it. SO, debunked just for you guys:


FC is a community: with rules and procedures. There are certain things you can and cannot do, and ways you should and shouldn't do them.

We're not a friends list When using rules and procedures, you cannot be bais in your decisions and choices.


This quote was made for leaders and how they should act. I made this quote when leaders began picking friends instead of the accords, which is wrong. Stop using my quote for your bullshit arguements that it doesn't even imply to.


Thank you and have a nice day.

[Nocte]

Everyone who says its just two hours is ... I don't even know a word.

Your Unit should be your FAMILY, your HOME, and a large part of your XBOX LIVE EXPERIENCE. The COMMUNITY is for making friends and branching out, the War Sim should be for War and fighting along side a set group of people. Its more than two hours, if you're doing it CORRECTLY. It should be all week, between practices, skirmishes, and hanging out and knowing each other.

Oh I agree completely, but all of that comes down to those two hours.

@dead1te. Me I've tried recruiting large amounts of people and it isn't easy. They either A. aren't interested. B. join and then disappear. So yes what I said makes sense.

[ReiBear]

Ok bet then?

Again that's called SPECULATION. If what your saying is true that NOTHING truly changed and OP firestorm was a complete disaster. We won't know until the war starts.

So you're suggesting wait til everything goes to hell and totally disregard people who do not like the idea then when the crap actually does hit the fan and everyone who expected this was right and now extremely pissed off because their voices wen unheard then you will all admit that you were wrong and then everyone becomes all happy again? Is that what you're implying? Because that too sounds like a really bad idea lol

[Anarchy]

Ok bet then?

Again that's called SPECULATION. If what your saying is true that NOTHING truly changed and OP firestorm was a complete disaster. We won't know until the war starts.

Agreed, I guess, rofl.

You take 3 squads that beat the living shit out of the other 3 squads, mix the good BLUE squads with the good BLUE squads, and the casual REDD squads with the casual REDD squads, and you still get 3 squads molesting the living shit out of 3 casual squads.

When it comes to whether this will fix inequality, I could care less. People will think what they think. The proof will come.

[d3ad1te]

@dead1te. Me I've tried recruiting large amounts of people and it isn't easy. They either A. aren't interested. B. join and then disappear. So yes what I said makes sense.

Oh really it does? So when you have a large amount of people it isn't ok to tell them to shutup or nutup. But when it's a small amount of people its ok.

Really.

[d3ad1te]

So you're suggesting wait til everything goes to hell and totally disregard people who do not like the idea then when the crap actually does hit the fan and everyone who expected this was right and now extremely pissed off because their voices wen unheard then you will all admit that you were wrong and then everyone becomes all happy again? Is that what you're implying? Because that too sounds like a really bad idea lol

Yes exactly...this is how rational minds fix problems. I am neutral on the firestorm subject because.

A. I know last war was extremely unbalanced.
B. I don't know that Firestorm has fixed anything because we haven't played any matches.


Oh and if you were here for last war you would have already known it was HELL hence why we have firestorm in the first place. It seems like you have disregarded the past 3 months.

[Anarchy]

Oh really it does? So when you have a large amount of people it isn't ok to tell them to shutup or nutup. But when it's a small amount of people its ok.

Really.

...Yes
>_>...

A minority of people will always be against decisions. When this large of an amount gets mad, it shows something.

[ReiBear]

Let me explain the quote "FC is a community, not a friend's list" Because all of you do not understand a damn part of the quote. It's in my sig because I said it, I made it. SO, debunked just for you guys:


FC is a community: with rules and procedures. There are certain things you can and cannot do, and ways you should and shouldn't do them.

We're not a friends list When using rules and procedures, you cannot be bais in your decisions and choices.


This quote was made for leaders and how they should act. I made this quote when leaders began picking friends instead of the accords, which is wrong. Stop using my quote for your bullshit arguements that it doesn't even imply to.




Thank you and have a nice day.


So forcing people to play with people they do not care to play with seems like a solution to minimize conflict within the community? That is an interesting theory indeed. LEADERS are the ones who really can not be bias when they are suppose to run a community. I mean obviously many people are against this yet everyone is getting told "These are rules! Listen to us! We know best!" That seems bias in my opinion >_>

[Nocte]

Let me explain the quote "FC is a community, not a friend's list" Because all of you do not understand a damn part of the quote. It's in my sig because I said it, I made it. SO, debunked just for you guys:


FC is a community: with rules and procedures. There are certain things you can and cannot do, and ways you should and shouldn't do them.

We're not a friends list When using rules and procedures, you cannot be bais in your decisions and choices.


This quote was made for leaders and how they should act. I made this quote when leaders began picking friends instead of the accords, which is wrong. Stop using my quote for your bullshit arguements that it doesn't even imply to.


Thank you and have a nice day.

Funny how you never debunked it before when it was used for the wrong reasoning, until I called it bullshit.

@Dead1te yes. That's FC logic. Hell thats world logic as well. The minority can deal withit as long as the majority of people are happy.... However this is the majority vs. majority.

[Gargoyle]

Its not a large amount., the biggest group is your squad sir.

EDIT: My apologies if you think I'm targeting you, not the case. It's just this is like the 50th post(I know thats a real #) that people have quoted me from and I got tired of it


Further Edits: I am bais. This is why. I will choose Raz's, Ghost's, Spartan's(and many others) word because why? They have been here for years. There have been here from the begininng. I'm damn sure they know what they're doing cuz they have legitally tried almost everything. FC when I joined was completly different in almost every single damn way to what it is now. BECAUSE THEY FELT THE NEED FOR CHANGE and it worked for the better. Listen to your elders cuz they have the experince we(myself included) do not have.

[ReiBear]

Its not a large amount., the biggest group is your squad sir.

EDIT: My apologies if you think I'm targeting you, not the case. It's just this is like the 50th post(I know thats a real #) that people have quoted me from and I got tired of it.

Then take it out of your signature silly goose :D


>< I can't

[d3ad1te]

...Yes
>_>...

A minority of people will always be against decisions. When this large of an amount gets mad, it shows something.

@Dead1te yes. That's FC logic. Hell thats world logic as well. The minority can deal withit as long as the majority of people are happy.... However this is the majority vs. majority.
This only applies to a minority of a LARGE population. Which is completely out of context.

A small amount of people would be the WHOLE population(In your argument). Hence past times where we used the SHUTUP or GTFO mentality... which is also incorrect. We have had plenty of members especially during Halo 2. When he still had this mindset.

[Anarchy]

This only applies to a minority of a LARGE population. Which is completely out of context.

A small amount of people would be the WHOLE population.

Lets think percentages.

[bazongaman502]

main thread gets locked.... so we create another to continue what we just tried to stop from going any further... 2 big :thumbs up: :thumbs up: on that....

anyways, for my opinion, idfc about if we continue Firestorm or not. I want to see people happy, but theres always that 1 group that complains at everything. Sure some have reasons, but some bitch just to bitch. Ghost is NOT a dictator, he just holds a stronger fist compared to the other leaders. Ghost is doing things correctly and in a great way. Think hes doing something wrong? they you have never seen a proper leader.

I used to hate Ghost, but i now respect the hell out of him. And you guys bashing him a pathetic. Grow up or face the fact that hes doing things the way he sees it.

Firestorm isnt triggering this community to split like i have heard from a few people, its the way people are acting thats causing that... can we not get along? and if we cant then idk what to say except i would be deeply upset in how shit is happening.

Someone lock this thread, its just continuing what we tried to stop in the previous thread and its not solving anything, if anything its getting worse.

[Nocte]

Someone lock this thread, its just continuing what we tried to stop in the previous thread and its not solving anything, if anything its getting worse.

Nobody lock this thread. People need to get their opinions out, other wise it builds up. Trying to contain those opinions isn't a good thing...

[ReiBear]

Ugh...this is getting frustrating...I am done. I am starting to care less and less about all this because this all seems to be pointless. We can argue until we are blue in the face and all that's going to happen is this topic gets locked, people may get banned, but more importantly our voices go unheard and not cared about. So I am leaving with this.

To successfully run a community or clan or any group for that matter you need to make choices that you feel are best for the community as a whole. If the members do not agree with such decisions then maybe there needs to be a rational and mature way to discuss such matters and come to at least a mutual agreement. There is no community without people in it. There is no good army without soldiers. In closing....we have the right to disagree with leadership decisions that effect us and you have the responsibility to address these issue to maintain order and happiness for this community. Otherwise what is the point?

Done...

[bazongaman502]

Nobody lock this thread. People need to get their opinions out, other wise it builds up. Trying to contain those opinions isn't a good thing...

Eagle, i understand your point, but if this stays open you are basically allowing people to flame... do we really need recruits logging in or signing up and seeing this? thats not a smart idea... have the people express their opinions 1 on 1 with the people it involves directly, not infront of people who shouldnt be involved

someone, lock this thread, please

[VerbotenDonkey]

Ugh...this is getting frustrating...I am done. I am starting to care less and less about all this because this all seems to be pointless. We can argue until we are blue in the face and all that's going to happen is this topic gets locked, people may get banned, but more importantly our voices go unheard and not cared about. So I am leaving with this.

To successfully run a community or clan or any group for that matter you need to make choices that you feel are best for the community as a whole. If the members do not agree with such decisions then maybe there needs to be a rational and mature way to discuss such matters and come to at least a mutual agreement. There is no community without people in it. There is no good army without soldiers. In closing....we have the right to disagree with leadership decisions that effect us and you have the responsibility to address these issue to maintain order and happiness for this community. Otherwise what is the point?

Done...

All I gotta say is if you think your voices are unheard, actually list what you want to say in an easy to see fashion. You wanted to play with your friends, now you can. What else do you wish for?

[Gargoyle]

The thread doesn't need to be locked. No one is doing wrong. If you guys want to peacefully and respectfully express your concerns, here you go.

BUT, NO BASHING. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANYONE BEING SINGLED OUT.

[Maxdoggy]

The thread doesn't need to be locked. No one is doing wrong. If you guys want to peacefully and respectfully express your concerns, here you go.

BUT, NO BASHING. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANYONE BEING SINGLED OUT.

Amen, broseph. Continue on with civility, people. We are watching.

[ReiBear]

Eagle, i understand your point, but if this stays open you are basically allowing people to flame... do we really need recruits logging in or signing up and seeing this? thats not a smart idea... have the people express their opinions 1 on 1 with the people it involves directly, not infront of people who shouldnt be involved

someone, lock this thread, please

Ok I wanted to be done til i saw this...

This is a COMMUNITY issue therefore EVERYONE in the COMMUNITY needs to be involved. :P


The thread doesn't need to be locked. No one is doing wrong. If you guys want to peacefully and respectfully express your concerns, here you go.

BUT, NO BASHING. THERE SHOULDN'T BE ANYONE BEING SINGLED OUT.

I'll single YOU out Gargoyle ^_~

[Gargoyle]

I'll single YOU out Gargoyle ^_~



I ugh....um.....I need the bathroom...

[iFurrious]

I don't get why you guys are so mad? Did I miss something but I am pretty sure that RaZ said that you can play with your friends. But it also won't hurt to expand your friends list and play with some new people, maybe add some people to your normal group of friends. If you are not open to meeting new people and just play your normal group of friends then just leave now, because this place is not for you. We are a Warsim community not Gamebattles! When I joined FC, I knew no one, I mean nobody, and now I have met people who I proudly call friends and talk to everyday.

[ReiBear]

All I gotta say is if you think your voices are unheard, actually list what you want to say in an easy to see fashion. You wanted to play with your friends, now you can. What else do you wish for?

Damnit!! I gotta get off this site lol

Obviously voices are going unheard if there needs to be threads made like this. Just saying...ok can I stop now lol this is getting too addicting lol

[d3ad1te]

Ugh...this is getting frustrating...I am done. I am starting to care less and less about all this because this all seems to be pointless. We can argue until we are blue in the face and all that's going to happen is this topic gets locked, people may get banned, but more importantly our voices go unheard and not cared about. So I am leaving with this.

To successfully run a community or clan or any group for that matter you need to make choices that you feel are best for the community as a whole. If the members do not agree with such decisions then maybe there needs to be a rational and mature way to discuss such matters and come to at least a mutual agreement. There is no community without people in it. There is no good army without soldiers. In closing....we have the right to disagree with leadership decisions that effect us and you have the responsibility to address these issue to maintain order and happiness for this community. Otherwise what is the point?

Done...

Look FC/RvBR/RvBw has been around for nearly 6 years now. Many larger halo communities have crumbled in that time specifically Hollywood Halo, TDS, ATF....

We can't cater to everyone. If you are really that upset over a video-game than you can leave. You have bigger issues in your life than FC lol.(Not directed a reibear)


I joined FC with two other people that I knew in real life... I haven't talked to either of them since easter of my senior year of highschool. But I still talk to some of the people I met 5 years ago on here weekly.

[Gargoyle]

pfffft. FUCK I remember Hollywood halo....good times...

[VerbotenDonkey]

Damnit!! I gotta get off this site lol

Obviously voices are going unheard if there needs to be threads made like this. Just saying...ok can I stop now lol this is getting too addicting lol

Well it gets covered in all the other posts. Cant really understand it all.

[d3ad1te]

Imsuck lol.


But really guys... GET OVER YOURSELVES. Just play the damn game. Myth, Metkil, Ghost, Kuhblam, Eri, Raz, and many others PUT A SHIT LOAD OF TIME, MONEY AND EFFORT to keep this place running! A lot of bullshit and tedious work that I doubt any of you would be able to do for the amount of time they have.


Just read through the rules of engagement, look at the battlemap, the credit system, usergroups, think about the website coding, the website hosting, the admins.

That is a good amount of effort to devote to a bunch of ungrateful little kids.

[Gargoyle]

Deadite, I'm just as frustrated as you, but don't refer to them as ungrateful kids please?

Just trying to keep the peace

[bazongaman502]

When I joined FC, I knew no one, I mean nobody, and now I have met people who I proudly call friends and talk to everyday.

^This

I joined FC last year by myself. My first friend that i made here was BodaciousBacon, then i met CaptainNick, Johnkilla, Maxwell, and Suki. After 1 month in being here i met alot of other people (Eagle, Carpe, Mythonian, etc.). We got along, and we dont even know each other outside of XBL and FC. I came so attached to meeting new people here that it wasnt even funny. 80% of my friends list on XBL are people i met here in FC. Why can't any of you start from scratch like most of us did and meet new people? its not a hard thing to do and its actually alot of fun.

[ReiBear]

Look FC/RvBR/RvBw has been around for nearly 6 years now. Many larger halo communities have crumbled in that time specifically Hollywood Halo, TDS, ATF....

We can't cater to everyone. If you are really that upset over a video-game than you can leave. You have bigger issues in your life than FC lol.(Not directed a reibear)

Curse you D3ad1te! *shakes fist* ok here I go again lol

Granted you can not cater to EVERYONES needs but when a decent amount of people complain about the same issue then maybe it wouldn't hurt to rethink the solution to the problem. Thus why telling people "to just leave" would just end bad. Also I do not think it is about the video game itself but the principle of the matter. To be honest I didn't really care about the issue at all until I realized how it was being handled an how people here including my friends were being treated. I can get along with anyone who can tolerate me lol I have no issues with playing with people I do not know I mean hello wtf do you all think matchmaking is? I play matchmaking with randoms all the time lol But the point is the way it's going. People are against this and voicing their opinions and being replied back with "Know your place. Our word is law" type attitude which I can not sit here idle and watch. I like this community I really do unil shit like this starts to happen which usually happens in all communities but I still feel like I have to voice my opinion and encourage others to do the same. .

PS. I am not a little kid...

[d3ad1te]

Deadite, I'm just as frustrated as you, but don't refer to them as ungrateful kids please?

Just trying to keep the peace

Then they should start acting their age.

[ReiBear]

Then they should start acting their age.

Who are you to decide who acts their age? You the age police now?

[d3ad1te]

Who are you to decide who acts their age? You the age police now?

Somebody had to say it. You(guys n gals) stomp around here like OMG WTF BBQ yet you offer no solutions. There is no argument here, it's just complaining.


I don't want to single anyone out your just the only one responding to me! lol!

[bazongaman502]

Curse you D3ad1te! *shakes fist* ok here I go again lol

Granted you can not cater to EVERYONES needs but when a decent amount of people complain about the same issue then maybe it wouldn't hurt to rethink the solution to the problem. Thus why telling people "to just leave" would just end bad. Also I do not think it is about the video game itself but the principle of the matter. To be honest I didn't really care about the issue at all until I realized how it was being handled an how people here including my friends were being treated. I can get along with anyone who can tolerate me lol I have no issues with playing with people I do not know I mean hello wtf do you all think matchmaking is? I play matchmaking with randoms all the time lol But the point is the way it's going. People are against this and voicing their opinions and being replied back with "Know your place. Our word is law" type attitude which I can not sit here idle and watch. I like this community I really do unil shit like this starts to happen which usually happens in all communities but I still feel like I have to voice my opinion and encourage others to do the same. .

PS. I am not a little kid...

Ok, wait till we complete 2-3 battlenights... you guys have only seen the beginning stages, those stages are always the worst. Let it play out a bit and THEN make your motion. Everyone is attacking something that hasnt had its chance in doing what it was ment to do... give it a shot, dont just think everything is going to change over night (not directed to you, but to everyone)

[bazongaman502]

Somebody had to say it. You stomp around here like OMG WTF BBQ yet you offer no solutions. There is no argument here, it's just complaining.

ding ding ding

EDIT: to lazy to edit D3ad1te's edit, so look at his new version lol

[ReiBear]

Somebody had to say it. You(guys n gals) stomp around here like OMG WTF BBQ yet you offer no solutions. There is no argument here, it's just complaining.


I don't want to single anyone out your just the only one responding to me! lol!


No one is "stomping" lol it's called a debate. It happens a lot when you are in a community full of different people with different views on things. It's not complaining it's disagreement. If you really want to talk about immaturity them maybe you yourself should familiarize yourself with the differences. The only one who is coming off aggressive about this topic is you. Therefore you yourself are the one doing the stomping.

I'm going out to the store now. I draw weary of this pointless debate.

[Gargoyle]

How bout this bear, in a
-

-

-


Kinda format, list your concerns with the community. I'm a gen girl, im listening to you.

[bazongaman502]

I'm going out to the store now. I draw weary of this pointless debate.

this isnt a debate, this is people saying the problems but not giving ways they think can be fixed... only one i see is "go back to what it was last war"... i recall all of last war was people complaining about the imbalanced issues... this is to fix that and now you guys get upset because we are fixing what you guys wanted fixed last war... you guys havent even givin this war a shot yet and already attacking this ideas throat... give it a shot, dont turn it down because you cant play with your friends for a few hours

(not directed to you ReiBear, but what you said lead me to say this)

[d3ad1te]

No one is "stomping" lol it's called a debate. It happens a lot when you are in a community full of different people with different views on things. It's not complaining it's disagreement. If you really want to talk about immaturity them maybe you yourself should familiarize yourself with the differences. The only one who is coming off aggressive about this topic is you. Therefore you yourself are the one doing the stomping.

I'm going out to the store now. I draw weary of this pointless debate.


Pointless because you oppose what? What exactly are you guys complaining about? Operation Firestorm? Whats done is done and has been done for awhile now.

And there is no DEBATE a debate would require two opposing arguments. All I see is...

I don't like Operation Firestorm
I don't like Ghosthammer
I don't like Dictatorship.


So what should we do about? Anyone? Anyone? Nope lets just keep complaining and wait for the WC to come up with an idea. Lets flashback to 3 weeks ago. After the war ended a lot of people were upset with imbalance(including me).

So the WC and Forerunner's decided it was time to change something. We got Operation Firestorm.

But instead of giving this new idea a chance and seeing if it even works! We just start complaining. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS WAS THE BEST ROUTE TO GO. BUT I WON'T SHOOT IT DOWN UNTIL I SEE SOME RESULTS. And maybe anarchy is right... honestly it does look like BLUE has a lot of the skilled players again.

But only time will tell.


If anything this thread was created just to bitch. Because if it was something USEFUL it would be in the suggestions sub-forum. Eagle was just trying to put out his concern on Operation Firestorm... I get that. But the conversation that followed...

[Yehsus]

If I could have a moment to address my fellow Blue grunts.

Keep the bitching within the unit, bow your head, and lets keep things professional and lets see what happens 2 weeks into the war.

I'm 100% against Firestorm by the way. Was looking forward to creating my own Company as I saw fit, but I am adjusting to the demands of the community.

Lets just get things done and focus on Sundays.

[RaZ Vader]

So, I told you guys that you may play with your friends. Your words did not go unheard.

Now you are still upset. And I think its because you just want a place of your own? Im assuming you want your own squad or company?

I understand that you wish to have your units. But you can also expand on that unit with more people. So explain to me what I am missing?

[Deathhawk]

So explain to me what I am missing?
The ability to make every single person in FC happy at once.

Who cares about Firestorm? Chill out guys.
Give it some time, see how it feels. If you take something on with a positive or at least accepting attitude, you will get alot more out of it.

[Daaaah Whoosh]

Deadlite, you've been bitching just as much as the rest of us.

And I think what everyone is proposing is a return to the old system, so that we can sort this out like a community. We all knew that there was a skill difference by the end of the war, and BLUE was just as tired of it as REDD was. But there are many of us who believe that the responsibility for a solution falls to the soldiers, to the ones among us who saw the problems firsthand. We might not excatly know what went wrong, but I'm sure we have some ideas on how to fix it.
The only problem now is that we have to fix these new changes, too. They're taking us away from the main problem; that is, the skill imbalance between the armies. Instead of recruiting new members to help REDD, the leaders of FC chose to alienate the old members of BLUE. In the end, as far as many of us can tell, all OP Firestorm has done is shaken up the community, and made a lot of people angry.

TLDNR
-They should have asked our opinions BEFORE Firestorm
-We should be building REDD, not dismantling BLUE.
-If you didn't like it, why didn't YOU leave?
-Firestorm isn't bringing in new members, it's losing current ones
-Firestorm might work, but it's avoiding the real problem.

[ReiBear]

I RETURN!!! Ya I don't really even know the whole entire reason everyone is all upset other then from what I can see is about the whole playing with friends. I initially came here in defense of my friend whom was banned because he spoke his mind(originally) in a respectful manner but was responded with rudeness. So yea...I am not bitching about Operation Firestorm per say. LOL!! I use to be on the debate team in school so things like this get me all excited hahah!! I seriously love/hate you all <3

[d3ad1te]

Deadlite, you've been bitching just as much as the rest of us.

Yes about the amount of bitching going on in this community.


They should have asked our opinions BEFORE Firestorm
I'm pretty sure they knew that a lot of people were unhappy with the way things unfolded last war and probably knew that this would be met with a lot of opposition so they did it behind closed doors.


If you didn't like it, why didn't YOU leave?

Because I didn't have to leave, Obviously other people including myself made a reasonable argument about the army imbalance and the WC and Forerunners responded with a major restructuring. We don't know if this will work... yet. And leaving doesn't mean LEAVE FC. It means remove yourself from the wars... and I've left before. Took the green way out and was perfectly content with that for years.


Firestorm isn't bringing in new members, it's losing current ones

I'd advise you to take a look at the amount of members we received( in the enlistment office) since Operation Firestorm. I just went through 4 pages of new RED recruits in the enlistment office. We have 152 active members on these forums right now. You can thank SpartanBH for that.


Firestorm might work, but it's avoiding the real problem.

Operation Firestorm was a direct response to the imbalance in the wars. Leaving REDD to fend for itself is ridiculous. I bet they would have went searching for some MLG tryhard asswipes to join so they could actually counter BLUEs god squads.


There are a lot of new changes but I can see how some aspects of firestorm have brought the community back to its roots.



I RETURN!!! Ya I don't really even know the whole entire reason everyone is all upset other then from what I can see is about the whole playing with friends. I initially came here in defense of my friend whom was banned because he spoke his mind(originally) in a respectful manner but was responded with rudeness. So yea...I am not bitching about Operation Firestorm per say. LOL!! I use to be on the debate team in school so things like this get me all excited hahah!! I seriously love/hate you all <3

I agree that Jai was mishandled... I really don't see why he was banned for 48 hours. Infractions were given out to really minor minor offenses.

[Anarchy]

I can honestly say solutions to every problem firestorm aims to fix, and more, can be solved through simple means that don't involve splitting people up and doing these things that are angering so many.

So to respond to all that I missed out on:
-I have provided a solution to the inequality. If anyone remembers my suggestion thread about fixing the problem while EAGLE was REDD FM? It's moved/deleted now, but I've offered some solutions, and if I was in a position of power or asked to help find a solution to anything here, many of those here who know me would probably vouch that I'd find a way.

-RaZ, please, we're OK with that at this point. We're staying together, big issue is fixed. This right here results from Jai being mishandled, and the general mindset difference between new and old EAGLE mentioned. We appreciate all you did, even if we don't actively say it in every post. While that is the biggest problem, and it is /fixed/, there's a lot more to recent events that grinds people's gears.

-Jai responded calling ghost dirt as a reference to the time ghost called us all dirt. And to be fair, the reply ghost gave me calling us dirt was a reply to a respectful PM. I did not respond in a negative or combative manner either. If you want respect, decency, and overall cooperation from your community, it comes from the top down. There is indeed a certain level of respect /new/ subordinates and recruits need to give to their leaders when they are so new. But at the same time, leaders need to continue to earn their subordinates respect. Jai hasn't gotten on ANY of his leaders' shit list until ghost, and I could spend hours explaining why. Fuzzy was fine with him, gargoyle was fine with him, and Kuhblam hasn't had problems with him. Our company CO has fitted his side of the bargain well too. When Jai is perfectly cool to everyone whose been a FM over him except ONE, it says something. And not about Jai either.

-As far as "whining" goes, I'm sure you would be right at home in 1776 America as a loyalist, telling all the citizens they need to stop "whining" about British government. I'm sure we're also going to go tell anyone protesting a cause that they're simply "whining" and need to get over it, whatever it is they're protesting against. At least we provide an argument past "stop acting like a baby". It's free speech, if you don't like it, go to China, they'll suit your needs quite well. As long as people are allowed to generally speak freely, they will.

As for the rest of firestorm, we're giving it a chance. Rei barged in to defend Jai. Let's be honest, ghost, you haven't been entirely too friendly with people in my group. I can't contain their emotions, eventually they snapped and wanted to say something on their own without me filtering it to be "respectful".

There are a lot of problems, and they all have simple solutions. I've played this game many times. I know what leaders think when they do things when it comes to these types of online groups. People sense the energy.

[Gargoyle]

Jai made personal attacks after his 1st warning was issued. Didn't listen, now he has cooldown time.

[d3ad1te]

As far as "whining" goes, I'm sure you would be right at home in 1776 America as a loyalist, telling all the citizens they need to stop "whining" about British government. I'm sure we're also going to go tell anyone protesting a cause that they're simply "whining" and need to get over it, whatever it is they're protesting against. At least we provide an argument past "stop acting like a baby". It's free speech, if you don't like it, go to China, they'll suit your needs quite well. As long as people are allowed to generally speak freely, they will

I like this analogy... But i don't think it works.

In my mind its... Just let the revolution happen. If it doesn't work we will try something else.


Also the only solution you provided was a deleted thread that we have noway of viewing.



There are a lot of problems, and they all have simple solutions.

Obviously this isn't true.

[Anarchy]

I like this analogy... But i don't think it works.

In my mind its... Just let the revolution happen. If it doesn't work we will try something else.


Also the only solution you provided was a deleted thread that we have noway of viewing.




Obviously this isn't true.

Because I'm not stupid enough to put time and effort into a solution I know the majority of WC will tell me is bologna. Last solution I gave got deleted. I'd give plenty more, but why waste my time? WC wants to do what WC wants to do.


Jai made personal attacks after his 1st warning was issued. Didn't listen, now he has cooldown time.

Yet ghost can make personal attacks on all of us?

[d3ad1te]

Because I'm not stupid enough to put time and effort into a solution I know the majority of WC will tell me is bologna. Last solution I gave got deleted. I'd give plenty more, but why waste my time? WC wants to do what WC wants to do.



Yet ghost can make personal attacks on all of us?

Great response

[H2O Yordle]

Ive had a simular situation back in my day... Thats all I really have to say.

[Gargoyle]

Ive had a simular situation back in my day... Thats all I really have to say.




Nice for you to drop in and say hey? If you need me, I'll be down by the bay.

[Nocte]

I bet they would have went searching for some MLG tryhard asswipes to join so they could actually counter BLUEs god squads.





I would have had to been shot and locked in hell for all eternity before that would happen.


As for this Revolution, it isn't a Revolution. It was allowed to happen by the War Council at the time.

Here is what should have happened, they should have addressed their concerns as the respected members that they were to the War Council and had us fine the best way to enact these things. Trust me I would have done it, but I would have found a happier medium to avoid the chaotic state we are currently in.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I would have had to been shot and locked in hell for all eternity before that would happen.


As for this Revolution, it isn't a Revolution. It was allowed to happen by the War Council at the time.

Here is what should have happened, they should have addressed their concerns as the respected members that they were to the War Council and had us fine the best way to enact these things. Trust me I would have done it, but I would have found a happier medium to avoid the chaotic state we are currently in.

As far as I know, a lot of concerns were brought before RaZ in a respectful manner before.

[Gargoyle]

There is no choas here guys. You wanted to play with friends, done. You thought they kinda threw this on us, they agreed and apologied. Never gonna happen again, so done. Razy bear is a busy guy. You think he has enough time to interview everyone? No. Did he try? yes, so done. Everyone can continue to voice their opinions but the fact of the matter is that they don't matter.

The pro arguements don't matter and the con arguements dont matter. The only thing that matters is how the next war goes. Personaly, I feel like we failed to mix up the armies. The same people are in the same spots. True. But all wars are different and nothing happens twice with FC. If I've learned anything its that. How bout we all meet back up mid April, then talk about Firestorm?

[Nocte]

I just want Halo 4 to be here. Then things will be interesting again x.x

[GhostHammer]

Here's the full story on this "dirt" stuff that's bee grossly taken out of context and the handling of Jai...

Originally: Anarchy was voicing concerns over zealously regarding not wanting to split, to which I informed him that i felt people unwilling to help the community and worry about their own agendas are people I respect on the same level as dirt. Sorry it's my belief. If someone cares more about their agenda than that of the majority, I find it selfish and counter productive. Did I call anyone dirt? No. I said the way you were acting was deserving of that level of respect. Big difference.

Jai was given an infraction by Raz for his first disrespectful post which did breach out accords. The second post, which directly attacked a member and broke the accords again was given an infraction, as it should have been. In this forum system and ppunishment procedure that ALL OF US in the WC follow is this...

First Infraction = 1 Point/Warning
Second Infraction = +1 Point (2 Points total within a certain time frame is an automatic 48 hour Ban)

Therefore, when Jai was given an infraction for a post that breached the accords, the system automatically calculated 2 Points (1+1 is indeed 2) and thus gave Jai a 48 hour ban. There was no singling him out or typing his name in a box and clicking ban. It is the system the forums and the WC go by.

As for people calling for this topic to be closed. So long as no infractions are made and things remain peaceful (As both Gargoyle and Maxdoggy have said) there is no need to close it. In terms of a debate, there is none. The policies are in place, the rules are clear, and everyone will follow them if they don't want any punishment that ensues from breaching them. The WC listened to peoples concerns and adjusted things, Raz and Myth especially taking time out to interview people.

Your voice is heard, but when the WC makes their choice it is your job as the member to abide by it. Suggest things if you feel in a respectful way (Which initially and for the most part has been done) but do not expect to always have your suggestions put into effect. As nicely put by some people, there is a reason this leadership group has managed to keep the community running well in the past 6 years. If there is a problem with something and you've suggested a change and it has been denied, be mature and continue on, don't complain. Like Anarchy and Yehsus have both said (Probably more but they are the two off the top of my head) they have accepted the changes and are working within them, even if they don't like them.

I'll leave you all with this. Don't jump to conclusions, get the facts before you dive into anything, and never judge a persons job and responsibilities until you've done them yourself.

[Kuhblam]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I just got to say some things.

First off, I NEVER talked to Raz about coming back. Any of the old guys will say that. I spoke my piece at those meetings when I blew up (something I'll never do again), and I tried to be decisive because the leadership was trapped in politics and cynicism. I never told him to come back, hell I wasn't even going to be a Field Marshal until he came to me. Spartan actually wanted to me to tell Raz what was going on; I told him what had transpired and then said I wanted no further part of it ever, and then the vets set up everything and I got pulled into it because of my testimonies. Please don't say that I was some grand architect of his return, because that was never me.

Secondly, I'm just supporting what I think is best for this community in the long run. I don't deal with politics anymore, I just run an army, and that's the extent of it. My spirit's just about been broken working in this community for so many years. That's all I've got to say on the subject. Don't burn me and don't roast me; what's in the past is in the past and I have no agenda against anyone anymore (not that I had any to begin with, mind you.)

~Kuhblam

[Juggernaut9473]

seriouslly guys, grow up, things will happen in life that you dont like, people will get pissed off, just deal with it

[Silko]

seriouslly guys, grow up, things will happen in life that you dont like, people will get pissed off, just deal with it

When people present a argument in a proper fashion then I would say they are grown up. Your right, things happen that people do not like. It is our right to state what we do not like. Why can we do this?

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m94/zZ_Dr_K_Zz/americanflag.png

That's why. To me, saying get over it, take it or GTFO are a very immature statements. If anyone says we are just sitting around spewing bullshit and hate I would refer you to just about any one of Anarchy's post. They are very well constructed and informative. Why would anyone in a leadership position who wishes for this community to thrive would say ignorant statements like GTFO is truly a mystery to me unless of course they really are just that ignorant and thick headed.

[d3ad1te]

When people present a argument in a proper fashion then I would say they are grown up. Your right, things happen that people do not like. It is our right to state what we do not like. Why can we do this?

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m94/zZ_Dr_K_Zz/americanflag.png

That's why. To me, saying get over it, take it or GTFO are a very immature statements. If anyone says we are just sitting around spewing bullshit and hate I would refer you to just about any one of Anarchy's post. They are very well constructed and informative. Why would anyone in a leadership position who wishes for this community to thrive would say ignorant statements like GTFO is truly a mystery to me unless of course they really are just that ignorant and thick headed.


The last 6 pages have been about how there is no argument. It's just bitching.

Come on now. Read up and tell me if anyone in this thread posted a well-constructed arguement detailing the problems, how they can be fixed, or ways to change FC from it's current state. I can tell you NOT one person has even the slightest idea of what to do. Nor have they posted... Just look at Anarchy's post. I mean he spent enough time bitching but when asked to come up with a solution...

Because I'm not stupid enough to put time and effort into a solution I know the majority of WC will tell me is bologna. Last solution I gave got deleted. I'd give plenty more, but why waste my time? WC wants to do what WC wants to do.

The reason it got deleted? Idk half the forums got deleted not more than a month ago.

Firestorm was a response to a problem. It hasn't even tested yet. Chill wait and see. All I know is nobody will ever be happy.

[Anarchy]

The last 6 pages have been about how there is no argument. It's just bitching.

Come on now. Read up and tell me if anyone in this thread posted a well-constructed arguement detailing the problems, how they can be fixed, or ways to change FC from it's current state. I can tell you NOT one person has even the slightest idea of what to do. Nor have they posted... Just look at Anarchy's post. I mean he spent enough time bitching but when asked to come up with a solution...


The reason it got deleted? Idk half the forums got deleted not more than a month ago.

Firestorm was a response to a problem. It hasn't even tested yet. Chill wait and see. All I know is nobody will ever be happy.

Anyone who takes a look at those in charge and how they see firestorm will know that any idea BESIDES firestorm will be ignored, and start another flame war. I'm letting firestorm have its chance. Those of us who know damn well it won't do anything are just waiting until April 1st.

Every one of my arguments has something backing it. I don't resort to calling people babies.

[d3ad1te]

Every one of my arguments has something backing it. I don't resort to calling people babies.
I think you missed my point. You have no argument. Because it's the exact same one as the people who put Firestorm in place. I honestly doubt firestorm will work. But at least somebody put in the time and effort to do something about the imbalance.

And when did you become so sensitive.


If you want to start a civilized dicussion lets...

What exactly is your argument? What can we do about the imbalance?

[Anarchy]

My argument is that firestorm is entirely unnecessary. Just because things aren't what they were 6 years ago doesn't mean they need to be.

The inequality? All we needed was VbD to go REDD, and they did. That combined with legion of darkness leaving FC altogether/not re-enlisting, and my Sparta already being on REDD, would have filled the inequality gap to a manageable level that could be worked out of without a huge problem. BLUE had some inactivity problems they would have had to fix over peacetime. REDD, in the meantime, would have practiced a lot, as we planned to do with gargoyle as FM. If the problem wasn't fixed then, sending a casual/low skill REDD squad to BLUE would fix things for sure.

Of everything that is up there that I said, the only thing that we as a community, and leaders as leaders, would have had to do is possibly move a casual REDD squad to BLUE. VbD already came to REDD on their own free will.

Inequality fixed. No feet stepped on.

Edit: This is a condensed form of what I posted before, that was deleted. The plan was generally accepted, except for the fact that VbD wouldn't go REDD at the time, and no one wanted to force anyone anywhere.

[d3ad1te]

Well then it's obvious this is fucked to shit anyway.

The only thing I really disagree with in Firestorm is the doing away with the clan recruiting. Recruiting large groups of people makes the most sense to me. Although they shouldn't be able to pick which army they go into.

If it were up to me I would have had the armies rate their (clans,groups, squads) based on their records from past war. Then rearrange them between REDD and BLUE. That way everyone gets to play with their mates and it's better balanced.

[Anarchy]

Well then it's obvious this is fucked to shit anyway.

The only thing I really disagree with in Firestorm is the doing away with the clan recruiting. Recruiting large groups of people makes the most sense to me. Although they shouldn't be able to pick which army they go into.

If it were up to me I would have had the armies rate their (clans,groups, squads) based on their records from past war. Then rearrange them within an army. There everyone gets to play with their mates and it's better balanced.

That would have been reasonable to me. Although, not to be self-centered, but my plan probably would have been a bit better on people's reactions. Some people are more attached to their army than us...

[d3ad1te]

That would have been reasonable to me. Although, not to be self-centered, but my plan probably would have been a bit better on people's reactions. Some people are more attached to their army than us...

I mean they are both pretty much the same. Just we would have more statistics to go off of.

Plus It would be nice to know how poorly the casual squads performed. lol.

I see it... as long as your fighting with your friends who cares what army you are in.... I guess others don't feel the same.


On a side note I do get Firestorms meet new people, make new friends... But how they approached the situation made no sense because as you said earlier... BLUE is going to dominate again.(everyone went back to their normal places)

We won't know until april 1st but it seems nothing has changed in the "balance" aspect. I do like the changes in the ROE and Leadership.

[Anarchy]

I mean they are both pretty much the same. Just we would have more statistics to go off of.

Plus It would be nice to know how poorly the casual squads performed. lol.
My argument is that we can come up with these plans on the spot, that would work 5 times better at keeping the community together as a whole if polished a bit. We wouldn't have lost 40-50 members, and everyone would still get to play with their friends.

Instead... We decided to mix everyone up to play with people they generally would prefer not to play with, and kept everyone on their same army, the good and the casual players. Accomplishes nothing... Blue still has the same average player skill, red still has the same average player skill. Hell, it's probably more unbalanced with us on BLUE now tbh.

[d3ad1te]

I honestly think the 40-50 members we lost was mostly inactive members.

If you don't post on these forums I hardly consider you a part of FC.

[Anarchy]

I honestly think the 40-50 members we lost was mostly inactive members.

If you don't post on these forums I hardly consider you a part of FC.

A lot of them were participating in battle nights regardless.

[VerbotenDonkey]

A lot of them were participating in battle nights regardless.

A lot of them were participating in Community events as well.

[Anarchy]

A lot of them were participating in Community events as well.

(In agreement)
A lot of people just want to play, and don't care about the forum politics. It doesn't make them terrible members. They're PFCs for a reason.

[d3ad1te]

There is truth in that.

[ReiBear]

Did I call anyone dirt? No. I said the way you were acting was deserving of that level of respect. Big difference.

Yea that is basically calling them dirt. Thus why it's comments like this and people like you that make me no longer interested in this community or even halo for that matter. Which is why I am all set with being here and playing with any of you lol PEACE OUT NIKKAZ!

[VerbotenDonkey]

Was that really necessary. -_- The topic had died out, if you had any concerns, a PM to the person would have sufficed.

Closed.