Return of Specific Rank Bars

[Salvanous]

Okay,let me first off say, that I love the art that Mede has done with our current rank bars, I really do love the updated appearance, and all, but we do have some situations with the whole summarized rank bars. So hear me out here.

The first thing that I have noticed, is that less members notice now when they get a promotion. Purplegamer17 didn't realize he had been promoted twice, over the situation. A new rank bar, helps to notifiy our members quickly and effectively.

I have noticed some trouble in members knowing exactly who is what rank inside even their own company. I know that my company knows that I am in charge, followed by Clear, and Lloyd, but everyone else feels very much like a free for all, there isn't order, unless someone posts in their signature what rank they are, and then what is to stop them from lying about their rank? It's something the members shouldn't have to do, and in some cases it can even make the member feel arrogant for boasting their rank.

The biggest thing that I wish changed though, is the drive to get that next rank. With the old rank bars, you worked to try to get the next rank bar, and really see a difference, with these new ranks, you can work for months to even be Major Sergeant of the Army, and STILL have the same rank bar. There isn't that kind of drive to get these ranks that we need to give our fresher members to lead them to being active, and involved with the community.

If High Command each get's their own specialized rank, why can't we do this for the rest of the army? I know it's more work for Mede, or someone else to do, but really, I believe that our members deserve to really feel a sense of achievement, and see it by getting that new rank bar.

I would like to see us return to having more personalized rank bars like we used to, it may be work for the admins to adjust everyone's rank bars, but I do believe it is DEFINITELY for the betterment of the site, and our community's involvement from new, and old members alike.

[Mythonian]

We have discussed various possibilities multiple times over recent months.

We may decide to return to having all ranks with images. At the moment it isn't clear what the future will hold, though.


The reason why HC gets separate images is because those ranks almost never change. For Enlisted, though, keeping them updated is a huge hassle, and it's very easy to get overwhelmed, which therefore causes you to get behind, which means that people won't see their ranks go up for days or weeks...


About members not being aware that they receive promotions: when you promote someone, generally someone is expected to inform that person. In the distant past, armies had formal promotion ceremonies to recognize and congratulate those members. Some veterans have been pushing for the return of that for awhile, and it'd probably be a good idea to have it return.


Just be aware, though, that it's been on our mind for awhile now and will continue to be. We'll likely be discussing it at upcoming WC meetings and will eventually make a final decision about what to do.

[bazongaman502]

I would like to see them go back as well...

However i fully understand why they are the way they are. Its annoying to keep having to change the rank plates all the time... I know durring the beta war Myth had to of hated doing that. There were so many promotions that it was hard to keep up... i think it took myth almost a month to put me as Captain at one point... however i think he did it intentionally >.> lol

However like Salv said, it allows everyone know who is in charge more clearer rather them having to send PMs all the time saying "who is our leader?" or "what rank am i?"

[Salvanous]

Okay in response to it being a hassel, okay sure it'sa hassle, BUT each Company in the most extreme case has 20 members getting promoted, so the admins of that army need to divide up that 20 members.

As the leader of a 37 member Company, I have to type up a weekly log in which I need to list each members rank, profile name, and other information for each member that attends one of each week's 3 practices, meaning I have to type up on average over 20 names (usually closer to 25 members). And then I also need to type up the battlenight log with even more information for all who attend Sunday and that's a 12-18 listing of members too. I have slot more on my plate but you see where I am going This is a hassle, but everyone has some hassle. I know it's something that can be done more easily than some may want it to sound.

The largest amount of work would be implementing the changes to everyone the first time, but that isthe only time where I see this being a larger work load. I know that this is something we should bring back, and EVERYONE can agree with me on that to some extent. I don't mean to sound rude, but to me the only reason I can see it nort being done is out of wanting to be lazy.

I heard that we shifted to these ranks more to make it easier for the newer admins, and I can see that logic, but I think the training wheels have been on long enough. I do think that this is treally worth the time to bring back.

[MedeDust]

I'm lazy. And busy. If they give me a whole list I might do it.

[Mythonian]

Okay in response to it being a hassel, okay sure it'sa hassle, BUT each Company in the most extreme case has 20 members getting promoted, so the admins of that army need to divide up that 20 members.

As the leader of a 37 member Company, I have to type up a weekly log in which I need to list each members rank, profile name, and other information for each member that attends one of each week's 3 practices, meaning I have to type up on average over 20 names (usually closer to 25 members). And then I also need to type up the battlenight log with even more information for all who attend Sunday and that's a 12-18 listing of members too. I have slot more on my plate but you see where I am going This is a hassle, but everyone has some hassle. I know it's something that can be done more easily than some may want it to sound.

The largest amount of work would be implementing the changes to everyone the first time, but that isthe only time where I see this being a larger work load. I know that this is something we should bring back, and EVERYONE can agree with me on that to some extent. I don't mean to sound rude, but to me the only reason I can see it nort being done is out of wanting to be lazy.

I heard that we shifted to these ranks more to make it easier for the newer admins, and I can see that logic, but I think the training wheels have been on long enough. I do think that this is treally worth the time to bring back.

Changed for the newer admins? No, it was changed for all admins.

Changed because we're lazy? You think I'm lazy? When I was FM, I got so behind on doing the ranks, because I was always preoccupied with more important things... like ensuring the army doesn't fall apart... -.- I didn't have the time to spend 4 hours a week doing a menial and repetitive task on top of everything else...

Of course the situation was a bit different then...

I'll give you this: Generals didn't have Admin at that time. If we add back images for all ranks, it will be because of that change.


I'm lazy. And busy. If they give me a whole list I might do it.

Changing usergroups requires admin. You don't have admin at the moment.

[Salvanous]

I'm not saying you are lazy but I mean there are things here that do give me credibility, look at metkil's latest blog about being bored. I'm not saying I expect that Met to spend time changing ranks instead of talking about zombies, and Anarchy HAS done the job of all of High Command for a period of time because the rest of BLUE was gone.

I know that HC is different from admins, but I do mean that people can do what is expected of their rank and more, we have lots of proof there from multiple people. This is something we can do, and it is something relatively easy if divided up. If you see that changing everyone's rank to specified rank is too much work, than maybe the issue we should be tackling is getting more admins.

The later half of your response made it sound like I didn't know what was important to running an army/community and yeah I don't know everything but I DO know this can be done, as we have done it before. I do respect the work that you and others have done, but I do stand by my question Why not revert back? The reasons to go back to me outweigh the reasons to remain where we are. If you see it differently then feel free to enlighten me as I would hate to be pushing something unreasonable and not beneficial.

Also pardon auto correct, typing on my phone...

[Mythonian]

I'm not saying you are lazy but I mean there are things here that do give me credibility, look at metkil's latest blog about being bored. I'm not saying I expect that Met to spend time changing ranks instead of talking about zombies, and Anarchy HAS done the job of all of High Command for a period of time because the rest of BLUE was gone.

I know that HC is different from admins, but I do mean that people can do what is expected of their rank and more, we have lots of proof there from multiple people. This is something we can do, and it is something relatively easy if divided up. If you see that changing everyone's rank to specified rank is too much work, than maybe the issue we should be tackling is getting more admins.

The later half of your response made it sound like you didn't realize what was important to running absent, and yeah I don't know everything but I DO know this can be done, as we have done it before. I do respect the work that you and others have done, but I do stand by my question Why not revert back? The reasons to go back to me outweigh the reasons to remain where we are. If you see it differently then feel free to enlighten me as I would hate to be pushing something unreasonable and not beneficial.

1. You say there's proof from multiple people, yet you seem to ignore most of the past... You say we can do it again because we did it in the past... And yet, in the past, nearly every FM got behind on updating ranks. It's been a trend that consistently happened. We have proof of that.

2. "if divided up" is the key part of that. That option was not always there.

3. Getting more admins? That is not a minor issue. That is something that MUST be done carefully. Giving Admin is giving someone power over the website and the content on it, and that is not something that we just give to people without careful decision-making. Giving Admin to the Generals was through a long, drawn-out, and deliberate discussion by the previous admins and the rest of the High Commands.

4. Reasons to go back... You said that they are: (1) members learn of the promotion, (2) members will have a drive to rank up to see the rank image change. I didn't see you make many other points besides those two. I'll dispute them somewhat:

Why do you not inform them of their promotion? As soon as someone is promoted, the first thing you should do is send them a message about it to inform them and congratulate them. As I said before, we used to have entire ceremonies for this. If your members are not being told about their promotions, that is at the fault of those who promoted them.
You say they'd be more active if they had a visual representation of their rank. This is probably the most true "benefit" of using images for all ranks. However, the difference is often negligible, and this alone is not necessarily worth the excessive effort required. Additionally, after people have been here for an extended period of time, they realize that enlisted ranks don't mean much, and they could care less if they are SGM or SGT or CPL. And yet, a lot of these individuals are still extremely active and dedicated to the community.


5. Overall, though, I think you are misunderstanding me. In this thread, I've merely represented the devil's advocate. I've never stated that I oppose the change, I've only said that it's not as clearly beneficial as it was being represented as. Both sides of the issue are valid and need to be considered in the decision that will be made.

[Anarchy]

I am in complete agreement with bringing back specific rank images. I'll be honest, I didn't take the time to read the majority of this thread as I am well aware of the pros and cons, but I believe the extra work is beneficial. This war, generals have admin, and that loosens the pressure on FMs to keep these things updated. Both Max and Fuzzy are active generals that can do a lot as admins to make this less of a strain. To top it off, armies aren't really as large as they were pre-firestorm. BLUE has around 8 promotions per week. Split that up between two people, and it really isn't a ton. It's an easy thing to pass off to your general if need be.

The biggest problem with turning back to this would be the initial changing of everyone's rank image. At least from BLUE's standpoint, however, that would not be a problem.

People know when they're promoted. Problem is, they really don't give a damn unless it changes their rank image. Petty, but true.

[RaZ Vader]

I must admit that it was nice to see different rank images for everyone. Myth is right about saying that it was a hassle for many administrators to keep up with the constant rank changes. It is not an easy task. The job alone requires continued updated information throughout the entire army.

The task should be given to the Generals since they now have administrator duties.

As myth stated, future War Council meetings will take place where we can make a final decision on this matter.

[Anarchy]

I would like to discuss the possibility of changing rank images back soon if we can. Given the extra admins armies now have, this is a logical way of improving things around here.

[Salvanous]

First off let me give heads up that autocorrect is not my friend here, so pardon any random words.

Your first reason does have merit, and history supporting it, that I will give you. I also agree that FM's do have more vital things to be doing other than spending all their time doing ranks, but as you have said we are changing it so that other admins are available now through our generals, and I will continue with this train of thought soon.

The second point is definately pointing to with more hands helping this is easy. I do agree if it were only the FM doing this it would be tiresome, but with the general helping, and maybe more helping, than the job becomes probably a 30 minute deal for the admins.

What I mean by more people helping is maybe a little more simple, or complicated depending on your current rank customization format. You think that when I say "make more admins" that admins must be all powerful in regards to every aspect of the site, and this isn't what I mean to imply. If you look at every single characteristic of our profiles(avatar, ribbons, rank bar, signature, titles, name) these are all customizable aspects of a profile, and it SHOULD mean you can give others the power to simply modify rank bars.

What if you gave 2-3 of the moderators the ability to modify rank bars (the digital image, NOT the permissions) of everyone from an enlisted rank to an officer rank, then these 2 or three could help with 90% of the work, while the General and FM took care of increased inbox, granted permissions to Flag Officers and up. The ability or option to give that limited amount of power should be available to customize.

Your third point is basically covered in my above reasoning. Give moderators another small thing to do, and this becomes less of a burden to the admins.

In your segmented fourth reason, let me say that yes, there is some truth in that they should know about their rank via their promoters, and everyone at least from BLUE does this as I cannot speak for REDD. In regards to having a ceremony we can do that as well, but then we have another issue to tackle in when, how long, and who leads them?

What you say about the rank bars affecting senior members less, I definitely agree with you, but the aspect of rank bars are meant to more target fresher members. The concept is to give them a visible sign of their status, and when they work harder, they improve their status. This concept is a means to have these members start being active in the community, and acquire s taste for the events we hold. Look at what ranks did before, when you were a recruit you were a marine, and when you became a private your rank showed you as a Spartan. It was a passive way of making the member feel better about their status and feel more valuable, and maybe more powerful. If I would have seen a progression more intricate, I would have said Marine for low enlisted, ODST for medium enlisted or something along those lines. Also I'm not saying we redo rank tags, but I mean to keep that in mind for Halo 4.

As for a misunderstanding, I never thought you opposed to the return of rank bars, more that you did seem frustrated that you took the "not done out of not wanting to do it" personally, which was not the intent, but to shed light on that section of the matter.

[iFurrious]

I am against getting back specific rank bar images. This method we have right now is a lot easier and less of a hassle. Sure we may have less people now and more admins but that's for now. I am sure that around the time of Halo 4 that activity will be up and we will be getting many more members. It may be easy to keep up on ranks now but when Halo 4 rolls around I see it being real hassle.

[Salvanous]

It's a hassle if you have only a handful of admins take care of it. If you don't plan for anything that's when you get bitten in the ass. If you divide up the work and we have the right amount of people it shouldn't be a hassle.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I'm in agreeance with bringing them back. It honestly doesn't take all that long to do xD (besides initially) And it makes people feel more accomplished. Honestly, we should define ranks more, but thats a whole other topic.

[Gargoyle]

I'd wait. Halo 4 is around the corner and we'll need to rebuild for Halo 4. The higher ups always have some secret plan, I'm sure that'll work with this. Understand this is probably the last war for Reach.

[Salvanous]

Gargoyle, I assure you,that we will have another war before we are done. Also, I refuse to assume the higher ups have a plan. To sit back and just let them figure something out is not right, we need to male our plan, and should they have one in mind then we can figure out what to do.

As for Donkey, I do agree fully with the concept of making rank's more noticeably different for both sides. What my current thought would be, is return to our old rank tags for now, and when Halo 4 comes out remake new ones.

The new ones BLUE would use marines up to medium enlisted, in which they would switch to ODST's, and then for high enlisted you would start to use Spartans. For REDD you may use ODSTs at low enlisted, and have more generic looking Spartans initially. If that makes any sense.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I didnt mean different for both sides more as, right now there's really no difference between Sergeant and Corporal.

Although I do agree, we need differences between the two factions. They're too similar.

[Mythonian]

I would like to discuss the possibility of changing rank images back soon if we can. Given the extra admins armies now have, this is a logical way of improving things around here.

It would probably wait until peacetime to be implemented.

We would need to (1) create the images themselves, (2) set up the usergroups, (3) prepare permissions for each usergroup, (4) attach images to each usergroup, (5) start changing members to the new usergroups.

Trying to do all that while also managing a war is a bit more than I like doing simultaneously.


I do agree if it were only the FM doing this it would be tiresome, but with the general helping, and maybe more helping, than the job becomes probably a 30 minute deal for the admins.

I think you misunderstand how our admin responsibilities are set up...

We have very clear and distinct responsibilities for various admins.

For example, Metkil owns the site and is the only "superadmin" who had absolute control. He manages backups of the site, maintenance, updates, and some website changes.

The FM/General are really the only ones that should be changing usergroups of members. If need be, sometimes the neutral admins will assist (for example, SpartanBH would sometimes add recruits to the correct usergroup when they enlisted).

However, relying on that external help is not how we want our armies to function. The armies should be able to manage on their own and not be dependent on outside assistance.


What I mean by more people helping is maybe a little more simple, or complicated depending on your current rank customization format. You think that when I say "make more admins" that admins must be all powerful in regards to every aspect of the site, and this isn't what I mean to imply. If you look at every single characteristic of our profiles(avatar, ribbons, rank bar, signature, titles, name) these are all customizable aspects of a profile, and it SHOULD mean you can give others the power to simply modify rank bars.

What if you gave 2-3 of the moderators the ability to modify rank bars (the digital image, NOT the permissions) of everyone from an enlisted rank to an officer rank, then these 2 or three could help with 90% of the work, while the General and FM took care of increased inbox, granted permissions to Flag Officers and up. The ability or option to give that limited amount of power should be available to customize.

There is no way to do that that I am aware of. There are only two levels of Admin powers:

Superadmin - Metkil is the only one. This is for security purposes.
Admin - The rest of us with near complete control.

Changing rank bar = changing usergroup = changing permissions. They are all integrated together in vBulletin.


In your segmented fourth reason, let me say that yes, there is some truth in that they should know about their rank via their promoters, and everyone at least from BLUE does this as I cannot speak for REDD. In regards to having a ceremony we can do that as well, but then we have another issue to tackle in when, how long, and who leads them?

So if everyone is already being made aware of there promotions, there's no problem.

How the ceremonies would be set up or ran would be up to the army. In the past, the FM ran it, but I have no idea how long they lasted.

Currently, though, it could be anyone, though someone in HC would probably be best.


What you say about the rank bars affecting senior members less, I definitely agree with you, but the aspect of rank bars are meant to more target fresher members. The concept is to give them a visible sign of their status, and when they work harder, they improve their status. This concept is a means to have these members start being active in the community, and acquire s taste for the events we hold.

Indeed, for newer members it gives them a bit of motivation.

Out of everything, though, that is really the only benefit of it.


Look at what ranks did before, when you were a recruit you were a marine, and when you became a private your rank showed you as a Spartan. It was a passive way of making the member feel better about their status and feel more valuable, and maybe more powerful. If I would have seen a progression more intricate, I would have said Marine for low enlisted, ODST for medium enlisted or something along those lines. Also I'm not saying we redo rank tags, but I mean to keep that in mind for Halo 4.

The new ones BLUE would use marines up to medium enlisted, in which they would switch to ODST's, and then for high enlisted you would start to use Spartans. For REDD you may use ODSTs at low enlisted, and have more generic looking Spartans initially. If that makes any sense.

Design details are up to who designs them. However, while using Marine/ODST/Spartan might do what you describe, it doesn't make much sense in terms of fiction. They still play as Spartan IVs at the battles.


As for a misunderstanding, I never thought you opposed to the return of rank bars, more that you did seem frustrated that you took the "not done out of not wanting to do it" personally, which was not the intent, but to shed light on that section of the matter.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s206/Mythonian/lawl/Arguecat.png


I'd wait. Halo 4 is around the corner and we'll need to rebuild for Halo 4. The higher ups always have some secret plan, I'm sure that'll work with this. Understand this is probably the last war for Reach.

*cough*


Gargoyle, I assure you,that we will have another war before we are done. Also, I refuse to assume the higher ups have a plan. To sit back and just let them figure something out is not right, we need to male our plan, and should they have one in mind then we can figure out what to do.

1. I don't think you understand the amount of preparation and dedication required to manage a successful war. Simply fitting in another war is not always so simple.

2. We always discuss the future. We had a meeting discuss possibilities just over a week ago, and will be having many more to come. A lot of us in WC have been running these wars for awhile now, so I like to think that we know what needs to be done and how to prioritize things.

3. Quite often, we don't like making things public before they are ready. We prefer a bit of surprise for most things, so don't expect us to keep you guys updated on everything. When we make FC Updates, that is generally where you find information that we are ready to divulge.


As for Donkey, I do agree fully with the concept of making rank's more noticeably different for both sides. What my current thought would be, is return to our old rank tags for now, and when Halo 4 comes out remake new ones.

Donkey was referring more to the description/responsibilities of the ranks. All the enlisted are quite generic and have little distinction between ranks. It's an issue we've had all throughout Reach.

[Harry]

Bringing back individual rank images to profiles would be nice :) I'm not trying to bash the new icons (they're pretty cool).

Ranks are the incentive to contribute to the community and if they cannot be shown (say someone gets promoted a flag officer rank (Captain to Colonel or something like that, no one will notice)) the incentive sort of drops.

P.S. boobs

[Nocte]

Ranks were never a hassle when I was FM. I did them every day or every other day and it only took a few moments....

[iFurrious]

Ranks were never a hassle when I was FM. I did them every day or every other day and it only took a few moments....

Yeah and look how well your FM campaign went. =P

[Salvanous]

Uncalled for...

Cheap blows discounted, Myth you are right when you say I don't precisely know how the admins work, nor do I know your collective, or singular motives, I can only go on past experience, and what I should expect of the site, and of myself.

Making the permission to change a member's rank tag and permissions should be easy enough. Back at RvBW when I was a lower admin I know I had the ability to change a profile's permissions to an extent, and my permissions didn't allow me to tamper with members past a certain rank. I know it can be done, and I remember it wasn't that hard to do.

In regards to making new rank tags, yes that is a lot of work, but I am not saying we make new ones, why not use our old ones for now, or have someone modify our current ones to have precise name descriptions, I don't think that is too much to do. I would hold off on making unique rank tags until Halo 4, as to avoid making too much work.

TBC

[Nocte]

It's Rogue. Both him and Scarecrow can make all the cheap blows they want haha.

[Scarekro]

Yeah and look how well your FM campaign went. =P

I approve this message. ^__^

[Salvanous]

Anyways.... Myth can you tell me how easy it would be to give someone the permission to change a rank bar without anything else? Also wouldn't it be easy enough just to add the appropriate rank to each of our current tags?

[Fuzzy]

Anyways.... Myth can you tell me how easy it would be to give someone the permission to change a rank bar without anything else? Also wouldn't it be easy enough just to add the appropriate rank to each of our current tags?

You can't give a person ability to change user-groups unless they had access to the administrator control panel.

[Mythonian]

Uncalled for...

Cheap blows discounted, ...
:confused:


Myth you are right when you say I don't precisely know how the admins work, nor do I know your collective, or singular motives, I can only go on past experience, and what I should expect of the site, and of myself.

Making the permission to change a member's rank tag and permissions should be easy enough. Back at RvBW when I was a lower admin I know I had the ability to change a profile's permissions to an extent, and my permissions didn't allow me to tamper with members past a certain rank. I know it can be done, and I remember it wasn't that hard to do.

Anyways.... Myth can you tell me how easy it would be to give someone the permission to change a rank bar without anything else? Also wouldn't it be easy enough just to add the appropriate rank to each of our current tags?

That was not vBulletin. in vBulletin, I do not know of any such permission options.

Other forum software may be more user friendly in the way you are describing. That does not mean that vBulletin has the same options available.


In regards to making new rank tags, yes that is a lot of work, but I am not saying we make new ones, why not use our old ones for now, or have someone modify our current ones to have precise name descriptions, I don't think that is too much to do. I would hold off on making unique rank tags until Halo 4, as to avoid making too much work.

The images themselves are the easy part.

The hard part is the implementation. Creating the usergroups and setting up their permissions can be extremely time-consuming, and can take anywhere up to 30 minutes to ensure a single usergroup is functioning properly. You are proposing adding nearly 30 usergroups. That's up to 10-15 hours of work just to implement it.

And that's only to get things ready so we can actually begin using them... -.-

Call me lazy, but I'm not going to do that in the middle of a war. Especially on top of all my other responsibilities. And Metkil is the only other Admin with experience creating usergroups, but he's busy with other things for awhile.

[Salvanous]

That's very lazy Myth, sloth's are even surprised. ;)

Yeah that makes sense. Really I just know that I want specific ranks for Halo 4 if not sooner. That sound reasonable? Others want it sooner, so I would say during Peacetime but I'll let others fight over a sooner time.

[Coda]

I just want to say that I would like to see more distinguished ranks. However, I think this should wait a while. I can't even imagine how stressful the people like Mythonian's job can be sometimes. I can see something like this during peacetime, but before that, I doubt it. I think the current ranking bars are very nice. When I first joined (at the very beginning of this war) I found the artwork done on them to be astounding. This site still has work that needs to be done. There is plenty of room to improve, despite how well done it already is. But, it is hard to do this while managing an army.
Don't put too much stress on the admins. Let them take their time. Managing a site/army/community/whatever can be hard work. I hope to become an officer eventually. However, I can't imagine being in HC in my current situation. Kudos to those overlooking their respective armies, and to those overlooking the war, and the website itself.

[MedeDust]

When I said lazy I meant making the images.

[Anarchy]

Call me lazy, but I'm not going to do that in the middle of a war. Especially on top of all my other responsibilities. And Metkil is the only other Admin with experience creating usergroups, but he's busy with other things for awhile.
Then I'll figure it out and do it.


When I said lazy I meant making the images.

I'm sure salvanous is referring to using the old ones, not new ones. We'll need new ones for halo 4, so the screenshots in them are actually from the game we're playing, but I see no reason to have them now.

[MedeDust]

Then I'll figure it out and do it.



I'm sure salvanous is referring to using the old ones, not new ones. We'll need new ones for halo 4, so the screenshots in them are actually from the game we're playing, but I see no reason to have them now.

Oh don't worry I got something up my sleeve ;)

[Anarchy]

Oh don't worry I got something up my sleeve ;)
God help us all.

[Salvanous]

btw, wrong place to ask this, but mind if I help in making the Halo 4 rank tags? If nothing else I have some ideas.

[MedeDust]

btw, wrong place to ask this, but mind if I help in making the Halo 4 rank tags? If nothing else I have some ideas.

Umm not sure how you can help me photoshop images.

[Blackhawk570]

Oh don't worry I got something up my sleeve ;)

Hidden blade?

[Salvanous]

I mean more in giving you images to use for given ranks, if you know what I mean. I

[Silko]

I must say I am laughing my ass off right now looking at this thread. I remember stating during the whole Anti Firestorm movement that the current rank bars left much to be desired. Yes this does make it 100x easier for the admins and I more then understand how much of a pain in the ass it is to change shit as an admin (I admin my guild's website). However I see this is a very easy way to confuse new people on who's what rank and who does what. When I first joined I had no idea who did what until I looked at the accords to tell me what rank does what and who was that said rank. It made organization, to me, a hell of a lot easier. Now that more members of HC have admin powers I can see it becoming more of a manageable task.

/sign. I fully support the return of the old system of rank tags. If that means we go to the not so good looking bars then so be it, but I will take something that works well over something that looks nice and in time we can upgrade the bars to be as nice looking as the current bars.

EDIT: I also support the idea of riding this war out and being back the old bars ether next war or with Halo 4. I personally would like to see it sooner rather then later, what ever gets the job done.

[MedeDust]

I mean more in giving you images to use for given ranks, if you know what I mean. I

Ah I see, yes of coarse you can definitely do the dirt work. Later on when I'm given the ranks I'll let you know

[Daaaah Whoosh]

I just want to say, we should go back to the old system, but we should have less ranks. Private, PFC, Corporal, Sergeant, Gunnery Sergeant, 1st and 2nd Leutenant, Major, then Field Marshall. I think that would cover everything we need, and it would make it a lot easier to understand who's in charge.

[Salvanous]

Eh... I wouldn't cut ranks, or atleastI wouldn't cut nearly that much.

[Graycochea]

There's a bunch of ranks in the rank list that BLUE Army doesn't even use, as in there's no one filling those ranks. I don't recall any off the top of my head, but if it's like that there's two options:

1. Start promoting people to fill those ranks.

2. Cut the ranks like D.W. said.

EDIT: Examples: Major General, Lieutenant Colonel, Major, 2nd Lieutenant, Sergeant Major of the Army, Sergeant Major. If we're just going to leave these open, we should cut some. Not Major General(can't go cutting High Command), but I don't understand the difference between Sergeant Major and Sergeant Major of the Army.

[Reaper]

I would like to see us return to having more personalized rank bars like we used to, it may be work for the admins to adjust everyone's rank bars, but I do believe it is DEFINITELY for the betterment of the site, and our community's involvement from new, and old members alike.

2386

[Anarchy]

There's a bunch of ranks in the rank list that BLUE Army doesn't even use, as in there's no one filling those ranks. I don't recall any off the top of my head, but if it's like that there's two options:

1. Start promoting people to fill those ranks.

2. Cut the ranks like D.W. said.

EDIT: Examples: Major General, Lieutenant Colonel, Major, 2nd Lieutenant, Sergeant Major of the Army, Sergeant Major. If we're just going to leave these open, we should cut some. Not Major General(can't go cutting High Command), but I don't understand the difference between Sergeant Major and Sergeant Major of the Army.

The gaps in BLUE are because we are such a young army. We see no need to fill the ranks just for the sake of filling them. Normally they are filled at the higher NCO level, we just don't have the experience to find suitable candidates.

[Graycochea]

Well what I'm saying is if we were to ditch some ranks, one's not in use should be the first to go. Also, what is the difference between SMotA and SM?

[Anarchy]

Well what I'm saying is if we were to ditch some ranks, one's not in use should be the first to go. Also, what is the difference between SMotA and SM?

Only one person can be the Sergeant Major of the Army. It's a distinguished, "special" rank that has work along with it, whereas sergeant major is simply an NCO rank like Master Sergeant and Gunnery Sergeant.


And I like having the multitude of ranks there. Gives more room to reward those who deserve it.

[Graycochea]

Yeah, I like the ranks also, I'm just throwing up suggestions.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Need to give the ranks sustenance though. They're meaningless unless we give them actual purpose. Personally, Sergeants should be doing a lot more.

- - - Updated - - -

Need to give the ranks sustenance though. They're meaningless unless we give them actual purpose. Personally, Sergeants should be doing a lot more.

[Anarchy]

Need to give the ranks sustenance though. They're meaningless unless we give them actual purpose. Personally, Sergeants should be doing a lot more.

- - - Updated - - -

Need to give the ranks sustenance though. They're meaningless unless we give them actual purpose. Personally, Sergeants should be doing a lot more.

They are in BLUE

>_>

Jussayin.

[VerbotenDonkey]

They are in BLUE

>_>

Jussayin.

Do you have at least two Sergeants for every junior grade Officer?

[Anarchy]

Do you have at least two Sergeants for every junior grade Officer?

We specifically talking E-5 Sergeants, or NCOs alltogether?

And by junior grade officer, we simplifying to Warrant Officers, or Warrant Officers and Lieutenants.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Any of the higher Enlisted, Sergeant and up. Per Platoon Officer, I suppose. 2 Squad leaders per Officer in a Platoon?

[Anarchy]

Any of the higher Enlisted, Sergeant and up. Per Platoon Officer, I suppose. 2 Squad leaders per Officer in a Platoon?

Your unit structure is a bit different than ours, so the "2 squad leaders per platoon officer" doesn't work.

We have 4 Officers by the ranks anywhere between Warrant Officer and 1st Lieutenant to 7 NCOs of Sergeant or higher.

Normally I would be hesitant to tell you this, but those numbers will most likely change soon.

[Deathhawk]

I'd like to go a separate route here-

Because Halo 4 is just a few months away, and shit will be changing big time (It always does) there will most likely be a new ranking system, as well as new userbars anyways.
There's no reason to do this now, but it would be a nice refresher for the new series of wars.


1. When ranks are determined for Halo 4, we can have a gfx artist make the userbars. (This will be probably post- Halo 4 release)
2. Hire two "Promotions Officers" (one for each army)
3. Have the Promotions Officer compile a roster for the army and each individuals rank.
4. Submit the full roster to an admin or someone willing to do the job.
5. Have the admin/person create the user-groups, and then put each person into their specific rank.
6. After the overhaul is complete, the Promotions Officers will be in charge of sending in an annual list of changes to the admin/person who will update the ranks.
7. The Promotions Officer can also hold Promotion Ceremonies.

Doing it this way solves these issues-
1. Having a High Command member be responsible for updating ranks.
2. Having each CO remember to inform those receiving promotions that they have earned them. (An officer SHOULD be responsible enough to do this, but the bottom line is that it isn't happening.)
3. Makes the recruit/promotee feel better and more satisfied. More willing to put in effort because their valor is being recognized.
4. Takes some workload off of HC/Officers, and makes it a better experience for everyone. It wouldn't be a hard job for one person who doesn't do much else, but it would be important.
5. Creates a consistently updated roster.


The biggest issue is that if no current admin was willing to carry out the labor, then someone would have to be given admin.

[Anarchy]

4-5 months is still a long time. I could impliment the switch in a single solid day, maybe two. The ranking system would still be the same, only the images would change. It isnt a huge change, we just need someone who is willing the take the time to impliment it, and I'm volunteering.

And do we really need to change the ranking system in halo 4?

[Salvanous]

I don't think we do, I mean I really think the only things we could get rid of is Chief Warrant Officer, and Lt Colonel as they are EXACTLY the same as Warrant Officer and Colonel ranks, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Puba]

I don't think we do, I mean I really think the only things we could get rid of is Chief Warrant Officer, and Lt Colonel as they are EXACTLY the same as Warrant Officer and Colonel ranks, correct me if I'm wrong.In REDD ,chief warrant officer does have a importence. its the last level in a officer training program we have. now in BLUE it might have a diffrent reason or maybe not used at all . now if you have warrant officer and not the next level of warrant officer then just take out warrant officer. its just like taking out 1stLT and it being :2ndLT ,captain,major,ect... it dosnt make work. well thats just me being the son of a US Army E-8 . just bothers the hell out of me thinking if they would remove ranks to make it simpler.

[Salvanous]

No that's fine Puba, I'm glad that REDD uses the rank. I haven't seen a use for it in BLUE yet, but that's just from what I have seen. If it has a use than I say keep it :)

[Anarchy]

We don't need to cut down on the ranks, especially when the images have already been created. If a specific FM doesn't feel like using a rank, that can be their decision, that doesn't have to be community wide.

If we implement this, implement them all

[Deathhawk]

And do we really need to change the ranking system in halo 4?

No, we don't.

We have changed it for every single Halo game so far though, so I thought it was a safe assumption.
WC any word on this?

[Anarchy]

No, we don't.

We have changed it for every single Halo game so far though, so I thought it was a safe assumption.
WC any word on this?
None.

Will update everyone when decision is made.

[Gargoyle]

We didn't "need" to for reach, but it was a new chapter for FC. Sometimes it's nice to just spruce up the place, keep things from being the same old thing all the damn time.

[MedeDust]

Probably won't hear anything until the game is released guys just saying.

[Anarchy]

Probably won't hear anything until the game is released guys just saying.

Oh, I thought Dalton was referring to the thread topic.

[MedeDust]

Oh, I thought Dalton was referring to the thread topic.

Either way mid-war changes are chaotic.