Ordnance Frequency

[Mythonian]

Have received a lot of requests for this recently. It is very early Friday morning at the moment, but if enough people want it we can still go ahead and have the change be in effect for this week.

At the moment, personal ordnance is earned every 150 points. We can raise this to 200 to reduce the frequency of ordnance.

Before, the average person would get about 3 personal ordnances per game. This would reduce it down to 2 on average, which is about a 30% decrease in personal ordnance each game.

Vote in the poll above with what you think should be done, and also feel free to add input below.

Thanks,
Myth

[VerbotenDonkey]

I honestly think it was fine. Two for a normal game is fine, but since we have 15 minute games, that's about one each 5 minutes. Sounds about right.

[Mythonian]

I honestly think it was fine. Two for a normal game is fine, but since we have 15 minute games, that's about one each 5 minutes. Sounds about right.

Two was if it was increased to 150.

Atm the average is 3 each game, which is about one every 3-4 minutes. Some people would get up to 5 or so in objective games, which is why most people are complaining.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

I don't have a problem with how often they are, it is just on a map as tiny as Haven their should be even less of Heavy Weapons. Any chance the rockets could be replaced with a sticky detonator in Ordinance. I like to have something powerful to fight over, but it is kinda like fighting over a gauss hog in the center with both teams having there own. It kinda makes the point moot.

For a point of Reference do you have the MM standard on ordinance?

[Deaf]

Honestly, I like increasing it as well, I'd actually be a proponent of raising it to where you could only get one a game or even removing personal ordinance completely. There isn't a team in FC which can't log into xbox and merc randoms. The reason our battles are so fun here is because of tactics. One of the biggest strategic things is weapon control, which is really mute with all this personal ordinance. Why rush a scattershot when you can get two more kills and have a rocket? We had a practice game yesterday where Sanguine and Raz's team forced my fireteam into a poor position. They should have wiped us out, but Coda called in a sniper for me and I had 9 kills with it and turned the tide of the battle. I love sniping, but it's pointless when it's so easy to get great weapons. These drops shouldn't be so game changing that they can make up for getting completely outplayed. Sanguine can testify to this. By all accounts, India team and Coda should have been wiped out, but just because I'm a decent sniper, the game changed completely. That's not right. The randomness of it also ruins competitiveness in the battles think about it. REDWATCH and Cyberdyne are playing. You and I both get 15 kills on the opposite teams. You get the option for a concussion gun, some pulse grenades, and a speed boost. I get damage boost and an incineration cannon. That's not fair and creates an artificial disadvantage unrelated to skill. The fact is, on Haven, even Guzzie can't beat someone armed with rockets all the time. If we do keep ordinances, I definitely want them changed. They are far too powerful as it is. Again, REDWATCH practiced last night. In our two games in Haven in a 4v4 map, we had a total of 5 rockets and 4 snipes in the game from personal ordinance. That's ridiculous and ruins the game. If you want to make it skill based and fair, either remove them, or make them standard and weaker, like grenades, concussion guns, sticky dets, swords, and maybe a very small chance of something like a damage boost. Having all of this heavy ordinance removes the point of what makes Halo great.

[Jam Cliché]

Someone said it. Yes. Erhmagerd. I love you.

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

I haven't played enough to have a strong opinion, but I feel 150 is fine.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Two was if it was increased to 150.

Atm the average is 3 each game, which is about one every 3-4 minutes. Some people would get up to 5 or so in objective games, which is why most people are complaining.

Increase in only Objective games then?

Then again, in games like CTF, the objective isn't really giving more points than say Oddball or Hill might.

Otherwise, I really don't see a problem. With our expanded time, getting one every 4 minutes isn't too game changing.

[Reaper]

Honestly, I like increasing it as well, I'd actually be a proponent of raising it to where you could only get one a game or even removing personal ordinance completely. The randomness of it also ruins competitiveness in the battles think about it. They are far too powerful as it is. That's ridiculous and ruins the game. If you want to make it skill based and fair, either remove them, or make them standard and weaker, like grenades, concussion guns, sticky dets, swords, and maybe a very small chance of something like a damage boost. Having all of this heavy ordinance removes the point of what makes Halo great.

[KazuhLLL]

Honestly, I like increasing it as well, I'd actually be a proponent of raising it to where you could only get one a game or even removing personal ordinance completely. There isn't a team in FC which can't log into xbox and merc randoms. The reason our battles are so fun here is because of tactics. One of the biggest strategic things is weapon control, which is really mute with all this personal ordinance.Having all of this heavy ordinance removes the point of what makes Halo great.

Agreed with all, but especially the last line. I mean, I consider myself just a bit above average and I nearly always get 3-5 ordinances per game (depending on gametype). I know some are saying that a power weapon every 3-4 minutes isn't so bad, but you have to keep in mind that there's not only one person getting ordinance. In reality, there's 8-16 players getting ordinance every 3-4 minutes. In many games it's not much of a problem, but in the games that it is, it's a big problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's played games where (literally) at every point in the game, a power weapon (or two) is in the hands of the other team. It sucks.

[Mythonian]

I don't have a problem with how often they are, it is just on a map as tiny as Haven their should be even less of Heavy Weapons. Any chance the rockets could be replaced with a sticky detonator in Ordinance. I like to have something powerful to fight over, but it is kinda like fighting over a gauss hog in the center with both teams having there own. It kinda makes the point moot.

For a point of Reference do you have the MM standard on ordinance?
You have an 11% chance of getting Rockets from our ordnance. That means that even if you had 3 other teammates and everyone got ordnance 2 times, that's an 88% chance that somebody with get it once. 19.36% chance that it will be gotten twice. 8.6% chance that it will be gotten three times.

In the average game on small maps, each team will get Rockets once. And the likelihood that an individual will get rockets during a game? Only about 22%, meaning you are likely to get it once every 5 games.

The above is using the 200 point requirement. At 150 points, it increases the individual likelihood of getting it to 33%.

You can compare to MM ordnance here: http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2012/11/14/The-Halo-Bulletin-111412-.aspx
Our ordnance: http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread.php?8354-FC-Gametypes-List-and-Game-Theory-Thread&p=101880&viewfull=1#post101880

Honestly, I like increasing it as well, I'd actually be a proponent of raising it to where you could only get one a game or even removing personal ordinance completely. There isn't a team in FC which can't log into xbox and merc randoms. The reason our battles are so fun here is because of tactics. One of the biggest strategic things is weapon control, which is really mute with all this personal ordinance. Why rush a scattershot when you can get two more kills and have a rocket? We had a practice game yesterday where Sanguine and Raz's team forced my fireteam into a poor position. They should have wiped us out, but Coda called in a sniper for me and I had 9 kills with it and turned the tide of the battle. I love sniping, but it's pointless when it's so easy to get great weapons. These drops shouldn't be so game changing that they can make up for getting completely outplayed. Sanguine can testify to this. By all accounts, India team and Coda should have been wiped out, but just because I'm a decent sniper, the game changed completely. That's not right. The randomness of it also ruins competitiveness in the battles think about it. REDWATCH and Cyberdyne are playing. You and I both get 15 kills on the opposite teams. You get the option for a concussion gun, some pulse grenades, and a speed boost. I get damage boost and an incineration cannon. That's not fair and creates an artificial disadvantage unrelated to skill. The fact is, on Haven, even Guzzie can't beat someone armed with rockets all the time. If we do keep ordinances, I definitely want them changed. They are far too powerful as it is. Again, REDWATCH practiced last night. In our two games in Haven in a 4v4 map, we had a total of 5 rockets and 4 snipes in the game from personal ordinance. That's ridiculous and ruins the game. If you want to make it skill based and fair, either remove them, or make them standard and weaker, like grenades, concussion guns, sticky dets, swords, and maybe a very small chance of something like a damage boost. Having all of this heavy ordinance removes the point of what makes Halo great.
If we wanted to base everything 100% off of skill, we'd be MLG.

Having aspects of randomness are part of what makes Halo fun in the first place. We aren't all tryhards here and lots of people want to have fun.

The reason we're using personal ordnance? Because the majority of people like them and have more fun with them than playing games without them. This is like the first thing that got tested during the Beta War.

Having the option to turn the game around is also a good thing, not a bad thing. If people are dominated from the start and outskilled without any opportunity to come back, do you seriously think they'd have more fun than if they could possibly get the option to make a comeback if they hold out long enough?

Fun is always the end-goal for us. I want to prevent the negative aspects of personal ordnance but keep the positive aspects.

In that game of 5 rockets and 4 snipes, that is extremely uncommon, like so unlikely that I know you were using hyperbole, because that would literally happen once in a million games. And if we increased it to 200, it'd be once every trillion games.

Increase in only Objective games then?

Then again, in games like CTF, the objective isn't really giving more points than say Oddball or Hill might.

Otherwise, I really don't see a problem. With our expanded time, getting one every 4 minutes isn't too game changing.
I'm fine with only increasing it in objective games. I just looked specifically at the scores for Conflict games, and that indeed might be the better option, since the average scores for Conflict are all below the overall average.

[Maxdoggy]

I'm fine if we increase it for objective games, even if it will seriously decrease my amount of pwning power. :P

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

To be honest I didn't even noticed Ordinance in our games last Sunday. I know there was some and it was an 8v8, but its not like they have Ordinance all the time though. I feel slowing the time down is going to make the games feel a lot longer.

I like the Ordinance as it is, my only worry is Haven because it is such a radically small map compared to the others. I mean rockets spawn on a map that is half the size of abandon which only has a Railgun and Sticky Det as heavy weapons.

[KazuhLLL]

I could get behind the "Change to 200 for Objectives-only" movement.

[Sicarioano]

Having all of this heavy ordinance removes the point of what makes Halo great.

I agree with these fine words.

[Mythonian]

It does seem that the majority of people voted for raising it to 200. We'll test it out a bit tonight and it works well it will probably be used for the battles.