Ordinance Drop during battles

[PanicPhan]

I think we have fully discussed this with a lot of people who play the battle nights. Nobody likes it, it slants it the wrong way.

[VerbotenDonkey]

You mean personal ordinance? Because I know most people are behind the idea of keeping it, at least that I've talked to O.o

[Jam Cliché]

Can't see the "keep" voting option, this thread doesn't seem to have a point.

[Fateless Wolf]

he means personal weapon dropping like were tired of them dropping rockets on us and wrecking us with it
we want to keep the personal loadouts but lose the ordinance

[Nicholas Sapien]

Can't see the "keep" voting option, this thread doesn't seem to have a point.

lol its the WTF option

[Gargoyle]

-_- What panic is trying to say is get rid of the Personal ordnance. From who've I've talked to, it's become clearer that personal ordnance makes the skill gap waaaay more obvious.

Panic's never made a thread with a poll before and he epically fails at everything. #Everything.
In all seriousness, I'd vote to get rid of it. It SHOULD be:

Op #1: Get rid of Ordance
Op #2: Keep it the same.
Op #3: Tweek the personal drops.

[Fateless Wolf]

-_- What panic is trying to say is get rid of the Personal ordnance. From who've I've talked to, it's become clearer that personal ordnance makes the skill gap waaaay more obvious.

Panic's never made a thread with a poll before and he epically fails at everything. #Everything.
In all seriousness, I'd vote to get rid of it. It SHOULD be:

Op #1: Get rid of Ordance
Op #2: Keep it the same.
Op #3: Tweek the personal drops.

I begged him to let me set it up but he wouldn't let me hes dead to me -_-

[VerbotenDonkey]

Personally, I think ordinance compliments everything. Each Team have equal opportunity to it. I didn't see it being overly gamechanging tonight because both Teams got ordinance and it equaled itself out.

The Boltshot shows justice to all anyway. :P

Edit I voted for none of the above. Consider my vote "keep the same" though.

[Anarchy]

Didn't seem like a problem in my games tbh.

[xThe GD Batman]

It should be mentioned that the perk that allows for faster ordinance drops is game breaking if the entire opposite team has it.

[Gargoyle]

Didn't seem like a problem in my games tbh.

You're a FM. You're suppose to only be playing once a month.

I don't really play either, but I've heard many different squads in different platoons that they want, and I wanna see what its like.

[Blackhawk570]

Fixed to better represent the poll options

[Fateless Wolf]

to be honest ordinances drop differently so one team might get shit weapons while one team might get all power and good weapons so u see the balance.

[VerbotenDonkey]

It should be mentioned that the perk that allows for faster ordinance drops is game breaking if the entire opposite team has it.

It only gives a one kill difference to how quickly you can achieve an ordinance drop. And by using it, you're giving up the opportunity to get, in my opinion, more useful perks.

[Jam Cliché]

It should be mentioned that the perk that allows for faster ordinance drops is game breaking if the entire opposite team has it.
It only makes it 20% faster. At most, you'd get one more drop per game. I don't know of anyone in my Squad or BLUE as a whole that uses that perk. The Ordnance Reroll perk is more useful, but I still know of several better perks that are often chosen instead for a loadout.

[Anarchy]

It should be mentioned that the perk that allows for faster ordinance drops is game breaking if the entire opposite team has it.

That perk only makes it one less kill to get an ordinance, its effect is very, very small compared to matchmaking.


You're a FM. You're suppose to only be playing once a month.

Ok cool. Well my limited playing time, and numerous, numerous scrimmages with the gametypes yield the same answer.

[zaradomerix]

Ordinances are not fair because whichever team gets the first kill wins the match. Once you get 1to drop you use it to get kills and get another drop and so on, and all the while your victims are helpless to earn their own ordinances and fight back because they are being spammed by rockets.

[Al Capone111]

Ordinances are not fair because whichever team gets the first kill wins the match. Once you get 1to drop you use it to get kills and get another drop and so on, and all the while your victims are helpless to earn their own ordinances and fight back because they are being spammed by rockets.

Cause getting a choice between pulse grenades, a needler, and a speed boost is really a game changer on any map.

[Specact]

The personal ordinances cost my team a game tonight. And from what I've been hearing I wasn't the only one that this happened to. For example two teams can be evenly matched early game. Team 1 makes one good push. They're rewarded with ordinances. They then use those ordinances to control the game from then on out. Team 2 can't make a comeback because they are constantly being held down with power weapons brought in from ordinances. Because Team 1 is using there ordinances to kill Team 2 they keep earning more ordinances. It shouldn't be about who can call in more power weapons but who has better map control and awareness and who can get the maps default power weapons. Also they continually had very strong power weapons. So I'm going to assume they were using the perk, tracker I think is what it's called to reroll for better ordinance.

[Blackhawk570]

Ordinances can be unfair but it is based on a random system so if your team does get better ordinances it is by luck. Also everyone could get rocket ordinance drops so it can be balanced, but again it is all luck

[Jam Cliché]

The personal ordinances cost my team a game tonight. And from what I've been hearing I wasn't the only one that this happened to. For example two teams can be evenly matched early game. Team 1 makes one good push. They're rewarded with ordinances. They then use those ordinances to control the game from then on out. Team 2 can't make a comeback because they are constantly being held down with power weapons brought in from ordinances. Because Team 1 is using there ordinances to kill Team 2 they keep earning more ordinances. It shouldn't be about who can call in more power weapons but who has better map control and awareness and who can get the maps default power weapons.

Your point has merit. Between two closely matched teams, Ordnance can make or break the match. But if your team is getting killed by four people using rocket launchers from drops, it means they each earned those weapons individually, which means your team was probably not going to win anyway.

[PanicPhan]

ahhhhh ordinance ahhhhhhhh
WTF

[Fateless Wolf]

Ordinances can be unfair but it is based on a random system so if your team does get better ordinances it is by luck. Also everyone could get rocket ordinance drops so it can be balanced, but again it is all luck

yes but I don't like those odds it should be standerd power weapons on map like in reach calling in ordinance turns the favor by luck but. if you leave it map based. its even players have a even advantage pending their individual skill am I making sense?

[PanicPhan]

there should be a chance to come back. ordinance is crazy i mean people pick loadouts so that it gets stupid. i dont think those loadouts should happen. i'm about to get real loud about this

[xThe GD Batman]

Ordinances can be unfair but it is based on a random system so if your team does get better ordinances it is by luck. Also everyone could get rocket ordinance drops so it can be balanced, but again it is all luck

I personally don't think game results should be based on luck.

[Fateless Wolf]

yes for the sake of humanity VOTE NO OR WERE ALL GOING TO DIE FROM PANICS RAGE STORM ITLL BE LIKE A NUKE ITLL BLAZE OUR EARS AND WERE ALL DIE!!!! its panic man dooooo as he sayyyyyssss DXXXXXX plus sorry to say I got a headache from people yelling about ordinance and panics rages plz for the luv of my health xD

[VerbotenDonkey]

there should be a chance to come back. ordinance is crazy i mean people pick loadouts so that it gets stupid. i dont think those loadouts should happen. i'm about to get real loud about this

We had a census in the Beta War about loadouts. Most people preferred them.

[Specact]

We had a census in the Beta War about loadouts. Most people preferred them.

I think he means about people picking loadouts solely for the point of getting ordinances quickly and then being able to reroll for it if they get a bad one.

[GhostHammer]

I'll make it simple.

All you all spamming the threads, cut it out. If you've voice an opinion, good. Stating it 6 more times over and over will get you an infraction.

Second, all I see, no offense, is one R.E.D.D. team all against it, which tells me it's more of a "we can't win when the other team has a bunch of power weapons" rather than a community wide concern.

As WD, unless it's a majority in the War Council, ordinance drops will not be changing anytime soon. Get used to it.

[Fateless Wolf]

We had a census in the Beta War about loadouts. Most people preferred them.

can we take another census about this now that we've all had time.... to think about whether or not we like this would it hurt to do that?

[VerbotenDonkey]

can we take another census about this now that we've all had time.... to think about whether or not we like this would it hurt to do that?

Following what Ghosthammer said, if you think you have a big enough support for something against our rules, bring the topic up to UNLUCKY with what you are unhappy about and what you want changed. Then, he has the power to make a topic about it in the War Council for it to be discussed.

[Jam Cliché]

there should be a chance to come back. ordinance is crazy i mean people pick loadouts so that it gets stupid. i dont think those loadouts should happen. i'm about to get real loud about this

Like I said before, I don't think anyone uses the ordnance priority or reroll perks consistently. We all get our ordnance by earning it, and people liked keeping it. Done deal, really.

[Fateless Wolf]

I'll make it simple.

All you all spamming the threads, cut it out. If you've voice an opinion, good. Stating it 6 more times over and over will get you an infraction.

Second, all I see, no offense, is one R.E.D.D. team all against it, which tells me it's more of a "we can't win when the other team has a bunch of power weapons" rather than a community wide concern.

As WD, unless it's a majority in the War Council, ordinance drops will not be changing anytime soon. Get used to it.

with all do respect sir, it might not be just one army maybe theres blues out there that have had the same thing in mind that might not have had a chance to voice there opinion, I think its something we should address personally. I know were not having fun its causeing us a lot of stress after hard work and practices we do all we can but it becomes a huge irritation to apply that and get swept out by ordinance drops. I know this may seem like spam but it personally might better the way everyone feels about this and it might relive some of the problems idk but I think this poll is doing it right.

[xThe GD Batman]

with all do respect sir, it might not be just one army maybe theres blues out there that have had the same thing in mind that might not have had a chance to voice there opinion, I think its something we should address personally. I know were not having fun its causeing us a lot of stress after hard work and practices we do all we can but it becomes a huge irritation to apply that and get swept out by ordinance drops. I know this may seem like spam but it personally might better the way everyone feels about this and it might relive some of the problems idk but I think this poll is doing it right.

I agree. This has been up what? an hour? Just because more REDD have responded than BLUE, so far, does not mean this is a REDD vs BLUE issue at this point. We're all just voicing our opinions, not spamming. Nobody has disrespected anybody else so far.

[Al Capone111]

It's happened plenty of time where the REDD squad will get rockets left in right or snipers while all we on BLUE get is Needlers and shotguns. It's all a matter of luck. So don't be acting like you're the victim here. Is it annoying when the other team gets rockets all the time? Hell yes it is. But if it was your team you wouldn't mind it one bit. Odds are the same for everyone.

[GhostHammer]

You've all been warned. I know exactly what's going on. I'm watching. Keep it clean, stay on topic.

[bazongaman502]

This is a concern to many and i do agree, it is rather unfair sometimes.

But i kind of like it.

Brings you to your toes and have to change stratagy throughout the game. Sure a power weapon happens to go to the other team, not like they cant be stopped.

i say keep it, maybe tweek it a bit

[Fateless Wolf]

It's happened plenty of time where the REDD squad will get rockets left in right or snipers while all we on BLUE get is Needlers and shotguns. It's all a matter of luck. So don't be acting like you're the victim here. Is it annoying when the other team gets rockets all the time? Hell yes it is. But if it was your team you wouldn't mind it one bit. Odds are the same for everyone.

look were not starting trouble were just voicing a concern we've all heard and were trying to voice it out its not like we discussed it with blue so its a fc thing not a redd thing we welcome blues opinion. were not doing it because were mad we want to know what all of fc thinks....

[xThe GD Batman]

It's happened plenty of time where the REDD squad will get rockets left in right or snipers while all we on BLUE get is Needlers and shotguns. It's all a matter of luck. So don't be acting like you're the victim here. Is it annoying when the other team gets rockets all the time? Hell yes it is. But if it was your team you wouldn't mind it one bit. Odds are the same for everyone.

I agree that it happens to both teams. I see it as a problem that it happens period. "It's all a matter of luck." "Odds are the same for everyone." Those sentences contradict themselves. If BLUE has a stronger team that is playing better, and REDD gets lucky ordinance drops, REDD could sweep the game because of it. That is unfair.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Like was mentioned before, Ordinance is just something you have to learn to counter against. It's a new thing thrown into Halo 4 that changes up the pace. Have to learn to counter. And chances are, if someone on their team has Ordinance, someone on your Team will as well.

And without Ordinance, how to you plan on countering Mantis's or Warthogs effectively, which spawn more often than 5 minutes like the initial ordinance? It helps out in the vehicular aspect as well.

Just means you have to play more as a Team and play more strategically.

[KazuhLLL]

I wouldn't mind if they were removed, because playing against 2 snipers, 2 rocketeers, a railgunner, a feul rod guy, and a binary rifle user all at the same time is quite annoying. (slight overexaggeration)

Really though, personal ordnances are the last luck-related thing that hasn't been removed from FC. Sure, it "adds some flavor" to the games, but I remember still having fun back in Halo 3 even without personal ordnances =P If many are for it, we could compromise by limiting it to Slayer-only like Matchmaking does, or removing it from the "Heavy" gametypes or something.

If it were to get removed, the static weapon spawns need to be changed to 3-minute timers. Just saying.

[Specact]

I wouldn't mind if they were removed, because playing against 2 snipers, 2 rocketeers, a railgunner, a feul rod guy, and a binary rifle user all at the same time is quite annoying. (slight overexaggeration)

Really though, personal ordnances are the last luck-related thing that hasn't been removed from FC. Sure, it "adds some flavor" to the games, but I remember still having fun back in Halo 3 even without personal ordnances =P If many are for it, we could compromise by limiting it to Slayer-only like Matchmaking does, or removing it from the "Heavy" gametypes or something. If it were to get removed, the static weapon spawns need to be changed to 3-minute timers. Just saying.

Verboten brought up a good point in that it counters quick vehicle respawns. What if it were removed for game types without vehicles.

[Platinum]

Ordinance doesn't dictate games, skill and communication does. I killed tons of people who had rockets from ordinance. Jetpacking!
If a team can manage to control the map and get enough kills to earn the ordinance, then they deserve it. It isn't a game breaking element, it's a reward system.

The matches would have the same outcomes, the same team winning. The score for the winning team would be higher because of ordinance. Skill trumps all aspects in the game.

[KazuhLLL]

Verboten brought up a good point in that it counters quick vehicle respawns. What if it were removed for game types without vehicles.

Ehhh. IMO, being able to spawn with Plasma Pistols and 3 Plasma grenades per person is already a huge counter to vehicles. H4's vehicles are already pretty weak even if all you do is team-DMR it. (Granted they're all tanks compared to Reach's vehicles, but still).

[xThe GD Batman]

Platinum we have heard from people that played today that say it DID affect the outcome.

Although Donkey does make a great point. I did not consider using ordinances for countering vehicles. That is what I usually use them for.

However one could also argue that map weapons/ordinances can be used to counter vehicles. That is how it worked in Halos 2, 3 and Reach.

[Fateless Wolf]

maybe we can agree to have some gametypes without personal ordinance?

[VerbotenDonkey]

However one could also argue that map weapons/ordinances can be used to counter vehicles. That is how it worked in Halos 2, 3 and Reach.

In FC, initial weapons respawn only every 5 minutes. Warthogs/Mantis have either a 2 or 3 minute timer.

Not a huge deal, obviously. But Mantis's are pretty strong. But on Warthog Maps, DMRs are just as deadly against them, I agree, along with PP and Plasma Grenades.

[H2O Yordle]

Cause getting a choice between pulse grenades, a needler, and a speed boost is really a game changer on any map.

But the fact is that not everyone gets only those choices. Then with things like the reroll perk and other shit its to imbalanced. I always pefered the weapons spawning on the map anyway...

[KazuhLLL]

In FC, initial weapons respawn only every 5 minutes. Warthogs/Mantis have either a 2 or 3 minute timer.

Not a huge deal, obviously. But Mantis's are pretty strong. But on Warthog Maps, DMRs are just as deadly against them, I agree, along with PP and Plasma Grenades.

Of course removing a current aspect of this game will make certain things unbalanced, like the Mantis. However it would be a simple thing to rebalance keeping in mind the fewer power weapons (such as raising the Mantis spawn time to 4:30-5:00).

When it comes down to it, it's basically a choice between the "Competitive" side or the "Fun" side. I personally consider playing a fair, predictable, no-luck game fun regardless of whether I actually win or not, but to each his (or her) own. If this had been brought up when H4 was released, I'd have said to keep personal ordnance. They were a new, "fun" addition to the game. But the novelty of it has worn off quite a bit for me. Sure, I can tolerate them, but that's mostly because I'm generally on the winning side of the ordnance drops, tbh :P

With so many voting to keep the personal ordnance drops I highly doubt it will be removed, but considering how many have voted to remove it I'd say some sort of compromise needs to be brought to the table.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Well, there was sort of a compromise in that ordinance was increased from 150 to 200 (although I think that was only for objective). I'm pretty sure I only got 1 ordinance drop all game in the only game I played tonight though xD I didn't notice too many coming down though. Typically, you won't get that many per game anyway, so I wouldn't count it as game breaking. Not to mention, if you have a problem with Ordinance rerolling, you CAN use it yourself. However, there are, in my opinion, better perks to choose that will allow you to outmaneuver the ordinance person anyway.

As for the Mantis, true however take Ragnarok for example. Whoever gets the Hill first gets the Laser. And then they can laser your Mantis and then they have Laser AND their Mantis. And the only really instant counter to the Mantis, let's be honest, is another Mantis. So it's kind of unfair if there was only the laser to use. At least that's my perspective on it. (I would like each Team getting their own laser to counter the Mantis, but that's just me).

[KazuhLLL]

Well, there was sort of a compromise in that ordinance was increased from 150 to 200 (although I think that was only for objective). I'm pretty sure I only got 1 ordinance drop all game in the only game I played tonight though xD I didn't notice too many coming down though. Typically, you won't get that many per game anyway, so I wouldn't count it as game breaking. Not to mention, if you have a problem with Ordinance rerolling, you CAN use it yourself. However, there are, in my opinion, better perks to choose that will allow you to outmaneuver the ordinance person anyway.

As for the Mantis, true however take Ragnarok for example. Whoever gets the Hill first gets the Laser. And then they can laser your Mantis and then they have Laser AND their Mantis. And the only really instant counter to the Mantis, let's be honest, is another Mantis. So it's kind of unfair if there was only the laser to use. At least that's my perspective on it. (I would like each Team getting their own laser to counter the Mantis, but that's just me).

Yeah, I know there have already been a few compromises on the personal ordnance but I'm just saying that if people are still complaining about it maybe someone needs to suggest another alternative. Like I said, personal ordnances usually go my way anyway so I won't be heartbroken if they stay in xD

Btw, I'm preeeetty sure FC Ragnarok has a laser on each side. I know it did at one point in the Beta war, but I'm not sure if that was in the final version.

[Coda]

I'm against them. I don't mind losing a match if they're just better than us. But if its luck... Well, that just sucks. I don't know if it'll be removed this war. But maybe next war... No personal ordinances, and preset loadouts. But have them be basic. Like AR/BR/DMR classes with a magnum. And have AAs and bolt shots and whatnot be in the map instead. I wouldn't mind that. But back to the matter at hand. I don't mind them that much. They're a part of the game. But if it was completely my choice, and I didn't have to worry about other people, I'd take it out. I want to be outmatched. Or outmatch others. No luck involved.

[Sangheili Ekim]

Take Ordinance out. Place re-acurring power weapons on the maps we use and have everyone fight for them the old fashioned way. Ordinance has replaced the need for skillfull map controll in all its entirety. I miss the days of weopon objectives.

[Project X A02]

Well, let the sparks fly!!! I love how this poll has been up for only an hour or two and there's already almost 100 relpies to this subject. In all honesty I'm supriesed it hasn't been shut down yet! Not going to argue but I do notice a reoccuring theme here every week, let't just say we can all guest what DaWhoosh's next comic will be about (sorry if I spelled your GamerTag wrong). Anyway I'll respond to this poll with a couple of questions of my own. I know there's a statbook but I don't know if that keep up with weapons stats like the postgame report, I was wondering if they did because even though it'd be a major pain in the butt if someone would take the weapons stats from a Halo 4 war/game and compare it to a Reach war/game how would the stats fair in terms of power weapons go? Also does anyone know what happend to the pre-set loadouts that were established during the Beta Wars? I was just wondering, because I'll admit I was a bit suprised when I noticed my personal loadouts during the first battle-night. (I'm sure I missed the memo on this subject but I just wanted to find out what happend that's all). Food for thought FC.

[H2O Yordle]

Is there a way to make it drop support items only? Such as Overshield and speedboost, and gernades?
I dont know if its on or not for CTF and bomb, but I think it would be easier to just take it off of H30, CTF and Bomb. On games like slayer it wont matter much.

[zaradomerix]

Cause getting a choice between pulse grenades, a needler, and a speed boost is really a game changer on any map.

That is certainly a problem... when playing online. Unfortunately, the Forge Department gets to select certain weapons to drop on each map, and can exclude any weapon on any map. They can also limit the chances of getting one weapon over any other. Such as on sanctuary, on the current FC map the shotgun is the primary drop, and the sword is the secondary. Many other weapons are either not a drop option or have such a low percentage of chance that you will never get one.

whichever team strikes first gets ordinance. whoever has ordinance gets kills. whoever gets kills gets more ordinance.and so on and so on in that fashion until we have games where one team has over 200 kills and the other doesn't even have 50 yet. it is rediculous! Many people keep saying that ordinances are based on indevidual skill level, but they aren't. By random luck, lag, or just plain faster reflexes you may get a single kill faster than me and get a rocket drop and before i can even take a step i am dead again, giving you more ordinance and taking away any chances for me to get kills. with no kills i am unable to get any ordinance to fight back and i have to sit there for 15 LOOOONNNNGGGGGG minutes while you spam me with your amazing rockets that fall from the sky.

[zaradomerix]

All i am saying is that there is really no point in having a whole week of practice and training, studying the maps to learn the location of the rockets and the snipers just so that one guy can sit in the back of the map and spawn any gun he feels like from the sky. What is the point of even having weapons on the map if no one is going to use them? no one cares that there is a shotgun up for grabs in the back left corner if they can just hit the left button and have rockets right where they are! If we aren't going to do our best to make a fun and fair competition between both teams why don't we just kill the website and all join MLG. There are a lot of people here that won't even consider dropping the ordinances and i don't understand what exactly you think is fair about them. are you scared that without them you won't win anymore? As many of you have said "the better team will get all the ordinance and win anyways". which is not true at all... but if it is. PROVE IT! get rid of ordinances and we'll just see who wins...

[Nicholas Sapien]

I like how this is already 6 pages long. War council must be debating this in their forums as we speak.

[zaradomerix]

Is there a way to make it drop support items only? Such as Overshield and speedboost, and gernades?
I dont know if its on or not for CTF and bomb, but I think it would be easier to just take it off of H30, CTF and Bomb. On games like slayer it wont matter much.

Yes, there is. But that is up to the forge department to handle and without a member of high comm telling them to limit the available drops they won't bother. It is something you have to edit in the gametype itself and it has to be approved by both teams for the specific map, unless we change the rules for every gametype from now on... which is probably not going to happen as it would have to be suggested and approved by just about every member of FC currently in existance.

But, yes. To answer your question, there is an option in the gametype editor that allows you to pick and chose what weapons and abilities will be dropped, where they can be dropped. which ones you are more likely to get and which ones you will only get once per match, if at all. and like i said, as it involves a great deal of effort the Forge Department will not bother unless they are screamed at by High Comm.

[Anarchy]

I like how this is already 6 pages long. War council must be debating this in their forums as we speak.

LOL

[Nicholas Sapien]

LOL

guess im wrong xD

[zaradomerix]

I was suprised this thread wasn't shut down 5 minutes after it opened lol. The thread recieved like 20 posts inside of 5 minutes. the site must have been going crazy!

[Anarchy]

guess im wrong xD

They're too worried about penalizing us for 1 game to worry about the other 30.

[mad bagger12]

I say keep them just take a couple weapons out (I have no idea if you can do that) like the Binary Rifle and maybe rockets.

[KazuhLLL]

I say keep them just take a couple weapons out (I have no idea if you can do that) like the Binary Rifle and maybe rockets.

There's plenty of customization options when it comes to ordnance. So basically you're suggesting make ordnance "medium-level" power weapons (SAW/Scattershot/Railgun/Sticky Det/Needler) + powerups + grenades and keep Sniper/Rocket/BiRi/IncCannon/Beam Rifle/Feul Rod map-spawns only? Idk about any one else but I'd highly prefer ordnance that way I think.

[Nicholas Sapien]

They're too worried about penalizing us for 1 game to worry about the other 30.

heh

[Toast78901]

So you all want fairness huh? Okay, lets get rid of ordinances. Wait... It's still not fair? Okay then, looks like we need to switch to predetermined loadouts. Wait.. still not? Okay, lets autobalance every team, so every team has a good sniper, grenadier, driver and gunner, etc. Then it'll be truly fair, right? Wait, no... there's still the problem of lag introducing an unfair advantage... So let's all pitch in and create a fund so FC can provide all of us with the same internet connection. Sounds good right?

Now, I ask you, the reader who sat through my little sarcastic show, to realize my point. No game will ever be completely fair. My question to you all, is where does your quest for "fair" stop. Should we also ban people who are MLG from certain games because it won't be "fair" to the new recruit who just started playing Halo the other day? I mean, that recruit is going to get annihilated. That's not fair at all, and might hurt someone's feelings to boot.

There is a counter to every weapon in the game. A playstyle that can effectively stop someone with a power weapon. They have two snipers out? Don't stay in the open, team shot with long range rifles. People have shotguns, swords and hammers (oh my!!)? Then check your corners, prenade, and dont play aggressively, running head first. Regardless of the weapon they spawn, if the team they are going against is good enough (there's your solution, people who want the games to accurately display technique) and has good enough communication (and now there you go, people who feel all their practice was for "nothing"), they will beat the ordinance team.

The Forge Dpt. decides what can and cannot be dropped, and so far, I haven't seen anything in any ordinance that doesn't make sense. They have all fit their respective maps and gametypes very well. Does one team make a push with power weapons sometimes? Yeah. But that's when its time to band together as a team, and show them what you're really made of.

Oh, and to whoever it was that suggested that people pass up weapons that naturally spawn on the map to call in an ordinance? I've never seen a rocket launcher, sword, or sniper not get picked up. Juuuuuuuuust sayin.

Toast out.

[zaradomerix]

Oh, and to whoever it was that suggested that people pass up weapons that naturally spawn on the map to call in an ordinance? I'e never seen a rocket launcher, sword, or sniper not get picked up. Juuuuuuuuust sayin.

Toast out.

It was me that said that, and i have. when theres rockets all the way across the map being guarded by a line of enemy fire... hmm... lets see... i can play tactically and work with my team to take over the captured position and advance the game in a way that is both fun, competitive, and makes sense from a logical standpoint... or i can just have god toss down a rocket launcher from the sky two feet away from where i already am and use it to kill them all and take the position and the other rocket launcher... i think ill go with that one...

[H2O Yordle]

Ive seen a sniper and sword get passed up all the time cause people dont feel they are good enough with the weapon to bother using it.

[Nicholas Sapien]

So you all want fairness huh? Okay, lets get rid of ordinances. Wait... It's still not fair? Okay then, looks like we need to switch to predetermined loadouts. Wait.. still not? Okay, lets autobalance every team, so every team has a good sniper, grenadier, driver and gunner, etc. Then it'll be truly fair, right? Wait, no... there's still the problem of lag introducing an unfair advantage... So let's all pitch in and create a fund so FC can provide all of us with the same internet connection. Sounds good right?

Now, I ask you, the reader who sat through my little sarcastic show, to realize my point. No game will ever be completely fair. My question to you all, is where does your quest for "fair" stop. Should we also ban people who are MLG from certain games because it won't be "fair" to the new recruit who just started playing Halo the other day? I mean, that recruit is going to get annihilated. That's not fair at all, and might hurt someone's feelings to boot.

There is a counter to every weapon in the game. A playstyle that can effectively stop someone with a power weapon. They have two snipers out? Don't stay in the open, team shot with long range rifles. People have shotguns, swords and hammers (oh my!!)? Then check your corners, prenade, and dont play aggressively, running head first. Regardless of the weapon they spawn, if the team they are going against is good enough (there's your solution, people who want the games to accurately display technique) and has good enough communication (and now there you go, people who feel all their practice was for "nothing"), they will beat the ordinance team.

The Forge Dpt. decides what can and cannot be dropped, and so far, I haven't seen anything in any ordinance that doesn't make sense. They have all fit their respective maps and gametypes very well. Does one team make a push with power weapons sometimes? Yeah. But that's when its time to band together as a team, and show them what you're really made of.

Oh, and to whoever it was that suggested that people pass up weapons that naturally spawn on the map to call in an ordinance? I've never seen a rocket launcher, sword, or sniper not get picked up. Juuuuuuuuust sayin.

Toast out.

TL;DR
jk I still see FC hasn't installed a like button
Nice post toast :)

[mad bagger12]

There's plenty of customization options when it comes to ordnance. So basically you're suggesting make ordnance "medium-level" power weapons (SAW/Scattershot/Railgun/Sticky Det/Needler) + powerups + grenades and keep Sniper/Rocket/BiRi/IncCannon/Beam Rifle/Feul Rod map-spawns only? Idk about any one else but I'd highly prefer ordnance that way I think.

That actually sounds really good lol but probably won't happen and I can deal with that.

[Toast78901]

It was me that said that, and i have. when theres rockets all the way across the map being guarded by a line of enemy fire... hmm... lets see... i can play tactically and work with my team to take over the captured position and advance the game in a way that is both fun, competitive, and makes sense from a logical standpoint... or i can just have god toss down a rocket launcher from the sky two feet away from where i already am and use it to kill them all and take the position and the other rocket launcher... i think ill go with that one...

Firstly, I apologize for not having quoted you in my first post. Didn't mean to make it seem detached or depersonalizing.

Secondly, what you're forgetting to mention is ammo. Yeah, they can rain down rockets, but only for so long. Even with the perk for faster ordinances, they can only get another ordinance after approx. 16 kills. (Originally 20, with the perk taking off 20% I believe, taking it down to 16).

So, considering that they have ammo; try to kill them. If you succeed? Great, now go collect those rockets as spoils of war. If not? See if you can't get them to fire to waste shots, don't group up with your team, and don't go into close quarters.

If it's an objective game type, Most objectives are in areas where one can camp, this is true. However, the Forge Dpt. has done a great job of always providing a positional counter to the camper. If it's flag, well, your team shouldn't have been in a position where they dropped the flag in anywhere but the open to begin with. If your carrier ran into a small little place where it's hard to fight against that camper, that was just bad strategy.

- - - Updated - - -


Ive seen a sniper and sword get passed up all the time cause people dont feel they are good enough with the weapon to bother using it.

Then they aren't good enough with it. That's not the point that was being addressed. If people pass it up for that reason, that's one thng. However, it was being suggested that they were being passed up to grab an ordinance instead. Not to mention, to each his own play style.


TL;DR
jk I still see FC hasn't installed a like button
Nice post toast :)

Nice rhyme... uh... lime??
Sorry, I got nothin.

[H2O Yordle]

You know what fuck it. Everyone spawns with rockets. Its even. GG!

[Toast78901]

You know what fuck it. Everyone spawns with rockets. Its even. GG!

Despite the sarcasm, those who would want a perfectly "fair" game should see that as a solution. If they stick to their guns, and truly believe in their quest for fairness that is.

[H2O Yordle]

Like I said before, I dont mind Ord. Drops but for objective based games like CTF, Hill, and Bomb there should be none. For slayer, Dominion, and what ever else it dosnt bother me. But I think certain weapons should be droped in Ord. such as rockets. Maybe for bigger maps sure, but 4v4s thats just redonkulous.

[bazongaman502]

I have to ask this...

We had a Beta War to test things out. Why weren't this issues ever brought up when after every battlenight in the results page we asked what you wanted to see fixed?

We had a war devoted to changes and none of these were brought up?

[Toast78901]

Maybe for bigger maps sure, but 4v4s thats just redonkulous.

But what makes it so ridiculous? The fact that they can blow up multiple people at once? Well then, looks like we have to remove grenades now too...

[H2O Yordle]

It has nothing to do with the amount of people it could kill. It has to do with the fact that rockets make a smaller map easier to control. Since no one wants to have set weapons on the map that would do the same thing. They shouldnt be in there. Rockets are meant to take out armor, not personal. It makes no fucking sense to me, why on a map like Solace, I have to go against 50000 fucking snipers.

- - - Updated - - -


I have to ask this...

We had a Beta War to test things out. Why weren't this issues ever brought up when after every battlenight in the results page we asked what you wanted to see fixed?

We had a war devoted to changes and none of these were brought up?

I was not there at this time. I was on a Hiatus so...

[Toast78901]

It has nothing to do with the amount of people it could kill. It has to do with the fact that rockets make a smaller map easier to control. Since no one wants to have set weapons on the map that would do the same thing. They shouldnt be in there. Rockets are meant to take out armor, not personal. It makes no fucking sense to me, why on a map like Solace, I have to go against 50000 fucking snipers.

I will agree it makes maps easier to control, BUT that's when it becomes the perfect time for your team to band together. And in terms of snipers, snipe back. What happened to the sniper your side spawns with? If it was stolen, you guys failed as a team to control your own area.

[zaradomerix]

I have to ask this...

We had a Beta War to test things out. Why weren't this issues ever brought up when after every battlenight in the results page we asked what you wanted to see fixed?

We had a war devoted to changes and none of these were brought up?

In a redd team meeting held by a few senior members we had last night we discussed the beta war and several people said that this was an issue and that it was never resolved.

[H2O Yordle]

Hard to control a spawn when youre getting spawn killed. Im a terrible sniper so that pretty much put snipe back outta reach for me. Not to mention the sniper spawns like every 3 mins.

[zaradomerix]

[QUOTE=Toast78901;108481]Firstly, I apologize for not having quoted you in my first post. Didn't mean to make it seem detached or depersonalizing.

Secondly, what you're forgetting to mention is ammo. Yeah, they can rain down rockets, but only for so long. Even with the perk for faster ordinances, they can only get another ordinance after approx. 16 kills. (Originally 20, with the perk taking off 20% I believe, taking it down to 16).

So, considering that they have ammo; try to kill them. If you succeed? Great, now go collect those rockets as spoils of war. If not? See if you can't get them to fire to waste shots, don't group up with your team, and don't go into close quarters.

If it's an objective game type, Most objectives are in areas where one can camp, this is true. However, the Forge Dpt. has done a great job of always providing a positional counter to the camper. If it's flag, well, your team shouldn't have been in a position where they dropped the flag in anywhere but the open to begin with. If your carrier ran into a small little place where it's hard to fight against that camper, that was just bad strategy.QUOTE]

I completely understand where you're coming from with the whole strategy thing. obviously you don't go bum rushing the camper in the corner who just dropped in a sniper rifle, but there is a point to what i'm trying to get at. my point is that we have special places for rockets and snipers and shotguns and we know where they are. Why practice to learn all these things if, come battle night, they don't mean squat.
you can get your gun from anywhere and don't have to waste time trying to capture the location that the particular weapon is spawned.

We realize that changing something like this takes a lot of discussion and a lot of people are making some very good points. I myself am enjoying it a lot, but back to your theme of tactics, if you know someone has shotgun, dont get close. if they have sniper dont be out in the open. these are obvious to even the most novice of gamers. but my point is, with ordinance, you have no idea what they have! you cant see it coming! you see a drop come in and you avoid going for the hill because you think they have rockets, when they really got a plasma pistol. or vise versa, if they do get rockets and you assume they got something terrible and rush the hill, your whole team may die trying to go after one person. if you see someone at the shotgun spawn, obviously you won't rush him because chances are he has a shotgun. same thing with sniper spawn or rocket spawn. but when anyone in any random location on the map could have any weapon at any time it makes it very hard to plan out what you're going to do. you say if they have shotgun dont rush. sniper dont be out in open, and rockets dont be near them. but with ordinance they can have all of them at the same time!!!! then what do i do? im backing away from an explosion caused by a rocket when im suddenly sniped in the face and shotgunned in the back simultaniously! there is no defense against that!

[bazongaman502]

In a redd team meeting held by a few senior members we had last night we discussed the beta war and several people said that this was an issue and that it was never resolved.

Because it was never brought up. You can't expect change on something when no one mentioned it lol

[Toast78901]

I completely understand where you're coming from with the whole strategy thing. obviously you don't go bum rushing the camper in the corner who just dropped in a sniper rifle, but there is a point to what i'm trying to get at. my point is that we have special places for rockets and snipers and shotguns and we know where they are. Why practice to learn all these things if, come battle night, they don't mean squat.
you can get your gun from anywhere and don't have to waste time trying to capture the location that the particular weapon is spawned.

We realize that changing something like this takes a lot of discussion and a lot of people are making some very good points. I myself am enjoying it a lot, but back to your theme of tactics, if you know someone has shotgun, dont get close. if they have sniper dont be out in the open. these are obvious to even the most novice of gamers. but my point is, with ordinance, you have no idea what they have! you cant see it coming! you see a drop come in and you avoid going for the hill because you think they have rockets, when they really got a plasma pistol. or vise versa, if they do get rockets and you assume they got something terrible and rush the hill, your whole team may die trying to go after one person. if you see someone at the shotgun spawn, obviously you won't rush him because chances are he has a shotgun. same thing with sniper spawn or rocket spawn. but when anyone in any random location on the map could have any weapon at any time it makes it very hard to plan out what you're going to do. you say if they have shotgun dont rush. sniper dont be out in open, and rockets dont be near them. but with ordinance they can have all of them at the same time!!!! then what do i do? im backing away from an explosion caused by a rocket when im suddenly sniped in the face and shotgunned in the back simultaniously! there is no defense against that!

Who wants a game that is completely predictable? Really? Cause that usually kills a game for me. And the practices and spawns DO mean something. They called in a sniper. Good thing a sniper spawns on the map so I can grab it and kill the guy who called it in.

And, if people do really pass up the initial spawns as much as they are being claimed to (which I, personally, haven't seen), then there's your strategy right there. Other team isn't grabbing anything? Looks like you've got a team of power weapons alllllll to yourself.

And as far as people being scared by unpredictability, well that's just part of gaming. Again, who wants something that is completely predictable? That's part of the fun of it. What I see here is people getting too caught up in their KD ratios and battle results to remember to just have fun with it. Would you really want every single week to be predictable, and essentially the same?

[Gargoyle]

Okie dokie, went through 9 pages, time to give my input.

1. The past.
I've been in FC for a total of 3 halo games so far; Halo 3, Halo: Reach, and now, Halo 4. H3 and Reach both had no ordinance drops and the games preformed just fine. It's something new to Halo and new to FC and IT IS OUR JOBS to try and balance things as much as we can. There's a line between "crying", which many of you so carelessly throw that word around, and trying to make this war balanced, which as I said, is our jobs as leaders.

2. Practice and training.
Through Monday to Saturday, teams practice and train on the maps. Tying into the previous point, ordinance is new. In our past games, our past wars, the victor was the one who truly EARNED it. Those who practice with their team, those who go our there with tactics in their mind, they deserve to win. Blue or Red. This is how it has always been. This (in my mind) is how it always should be.

3. Ordinance Numbers.
A good player SHOULD get an AVERAGE of 2 Ordinance drops per game. Struggling players should get about an average of 1/game. That alone establishes a skill gap. If there's a 10% of a rocket being dropped, that's still a chance. Could you imagine if the other team all got rockets toward the end and stole the game? Is that fair? That brings me into #4.

4. History.
Older members, remember when Andimion forged Red's capital? Adding snipers and lasers? We said not okay. We banned him for that because it was in Red's favor unfairly.
What about when the forge Depart. sees a flaw in a map. Red's side has more cover than blue's. Solution: Add cover for blue. Why? Because in that, Red had an unfair advantage.
Now, look at Ordinance. GRANTED, it is an advantage THROUGH LUCK. It's unfair. Those who argue that it's EARNED, how? The best player on one team could get needlers and gernades, while the worse player on the other team could get a rocket. How is it that they earn anything? Because they got a certain # of points?


I even made my points in different pretty colors so it's better than a wall of white text = tl;dr :)

[H2O Yordle]

Okie dokie, went through 9 pages, time to give my input.

1. The past.
I've been in FC for a total of 3 halo games so far; Halo 3, Halo: Reach, and now, Halo 4. H3 and Reach both had no ordinance drops and the games preformed just fine. It's something new to Halo and new to FC and IT IS OUR JOBS to try and balance things as much as we can. There's a line between "crying", which many of you so carelessly throw that word around, and trying to make this war balanced, which as I said, is our jobs as leaders.

2. Practice and training.
Through Monday to Saturday, teams practice and train on the maps. Tying into the previous point, ordinance is new. In our past games, our past wars, the victor was the one who truly EARNED it. Those who practice with their team, those who go our there with tactics in their mind, they deserve to win. Blue or Red. This is how it has always been. This (in my mind) is how it always should be.

3. Ordinance Numbers.
A good player SHOULD get an AVERAGE of 2 Ordinance drops per game. Struggling players should get about an average of 1/game. That alone establishes a skill gap. If there's a 10% of a rocket being dropped, that's still a chance. Could you imagine if the other team all got rockets toward the end and stole the game? Is that fair? That brings me into #4.

4. History.
Older members, remember when Andimion forged Red's capital? Adding snipers and lasers? We said not okay. We banned him for that because it was in Red's favor unfairly.
What about when the forge Depart. sees a flaw in a map. Red's side has more cover than blue's. Solution: Add cover for blue. Why? Because in that, Red had an unfair advantage.
Now, look at Ordinance. GRANTED, it is an advantage THROUGH LUCK. It's unfair. Those who argue that it's EARNED, how? The best player on one team could get needlers and gernades, while the worse player on the other team could get a rocket. How is it that they earn anything? Because they got a certain # of points?


I even made my points in different pretty colors so it's better than a wall of white text = tl;dr :)
What he said.

[bazongaman502]

"Best player gets Snipers and Rockets all the time" (i know no one said these words, but is implied by a few of you).

That is highly false, but also a little true.

I have gone into games where iv got an ordanance drop i didnt like or fit well with how i was playing and i said "Hey, i got an ordanance drop, it has ____, _____, and _____. Who wants what?"

People share, chances are the best player may not get a sniper ever, but is given one.

Its called "sharing".

Example: UNLUCKY is really good with Rockets, im not good with them at all. I get an ordance drop that i dont like but Rockets are an option. 90% of the time i'll give them to UNLUCKY.

People share... there is no imbalance, its just people practice alot and know who is good with what.

Also: I like what Garg typed... valid points

[H2O Yordle]

How are you not good with rockets?

[Specact]

I will agree it makes maps easier to control, BUT that's when it becomes the perfect time for your team to band together. And in terms of snipers, snipe back. What happened to the sniper your side spawns with? If it was stolen, you guys failed as a team to control your own area.

The thing about ordinances is you can have map control. Like I said earlier 1 team goes on a good run. They call in ordinances. They gain map control only because they got those ordinances. In Slayer this isn't as big a deal but in objective, especially KoTH those ordinances can determine a close game. Not map control, awareness, or player skill. I don't see what's wrong with the old system of power weapon spawns. Now where stuck with a system that is based largely on luck and random chance.

[bazongaman502]

How are you not good with rockets?

Im not the best with them... mainly because i dont like using them. More of a sniper and DMR person only. Hardly use the power ups either

[Toast78901]

It seems to me that one of the major issues being brought up is a skill gap. But that is implying that the skill gap wouldn't be there if ordinances were removed. If a player isn't too hot, and there is someone better than them on the other team, the better player will win even if its just a DMR fight.

If anything, ordinances, IMO, introduce a nice little bit of unpredictability. With ordinances, like Garg said, a novice player may get rockets, with the hardened vet getting a SAW. It's based in luck, but adds a little bit of balance on its own. Now that novice player stands a chance against the vet. It adds a little zest. You don't have the same people sweeping every week. Granted, certain people are just good. They will always do well and help lead their army to victory. But now, their power is corrected for in a way, giving people who aren't as good a way to compete. And if this seems unfair to the vet, their salvation is that they will receive more ordinances than the novices. I see it as balancing itself out, with an added hint of unpredictability that changes things up from week to week.

[JIMI HENRIX]

I believe that the ordinance drops make what should be close games into one team getting steam rolled.

[xThe GD Batman]

I believe that the ordinance drops make what should be close games into one team getting steam rolled.

Well said.

[Al Capone111]

Just tweek them a bit. Maybe smaller maps cut back on the heavy weapon chance (rockets, FR, etc). Bigger maps maybe cut the sniper class weapons back a bit.

I know when I play I give away about half my drops. Same with my squad. We often trade drops. Like I get a sniper (which I suck with) so I call it in and Max or someone else will grab it. Someone gets rockets but they dont want them, they call it in and i grab it.

[Gargoyle]

Just tweek them a bit. Maybe smaller maps cut back on the heavy weapon chance (rockets, FR, etc). Bigger maps maybe cut the sniper class weapons back a bit.

I know when I play I give away about half my drops. Same with my squad. We often trade drops. Like I get a sniper (which I suck with) so I call it in and Max or someone else will grab it. Someone gets rockets but they dont want them, they call it in and i grab it.

This. Compromise. Taking them all the way out i don't fully think is right. Keeping them this way however, i dont agree with either.
It may be a bit more work for the forge depart. but it makes things better IMO

[Maxdoggy]

I would like to say that everyone sucks at spelling "tweak".

That is all.

[BloodxFangz]

I believe that the ordinance drops make what should be close games into one team getting steam rolled.

This is a perfect point which I have seen so much and once one side gets ordinance they get the advantage and can run away with the game and no matter how much team work you have and how much you change your approach it wont change the difference once that one team has them, it's game over from that point on.

[KazuhLLL]

So you all want fairness huh? Okay, lets get rid of ordinances. Wait... It's still not fair? Okay then, looks like we need to switch to predetermined loadouts. Wait.. still not? Okay, lets autobalance every team, so every team has a good sniper, grenadier, driver and gunner, etc. Then it'll be truly fair, right? Wait, no... there's still the problem of lag introducing an unfair advantage... So let's all pitch in and create a fund so FC can provide all of us with the same internet connection. Sounds good right?
IMO, what you're suggesting is less how to make a "fair" game and more how to make a "super-competitive" game. There is a strong correlation between the two so it depends on the person where they see the lines of overlap. If I (and the rest of the competition-lovers in FC) wanted to play a "super-competitive" game, we'd all go join MLG or AGL or gamebattles or whatever league best suited us. I don't play with FC expecting "super-competitive" gametypes. But I (and I'm sure many others) do expect the games to follow the one underlying rule of all competitions: that the team who plays better always wins. Yes, with personal ordnance the better team usually wins, but there are still many games that are won specifically because of ordnance. The stuff about lag and team skill is irrelevant because those are things that are either impossible or at least very difficult to control. Turning off personal ordnance is as easy as the flip of a switch.


I have to ask this...

We had a Beta War to test things out. Why weren't this issues ever brought up when after every battlenight in the results page we asked what you wanted to see fixed?

We had a war devoted to changes and none of these were brought up?
Many people were away or very inactive during the peacetime/holidays. There were a few issues that were brought up here and there, but with the low playerbase none really exploded into good conversation like this one.


Okie dokie, went through 9 pages, time to give my input.
I even made my points in different pretty colors so it's better than a wall of white text = tl;dr :)
I agree with absolutely everything you said.


I would like to say that everyone sucks at spelling "tweak".
Lmao, agreed.


I believe that the ordinance drops make what should be close games into one team getting steam rolled.
Exactly.


I know when I play I give away about half my drops. Same with my squad. We often trade drops. Like I get a sniper (which I suck with) so I call it in and Max or someone else will grab it. Someone gets rockets but they dont want them, they call it in and i grab it.

As far as the sharing goes, they're just another reason why I'd prefer not to have ordnance. Take yesterday's Sanctuary G15 against REDWATCH, for example. Between the three snipers that spawned on Blue side throughout the duration of the match and Al Capone and M24C each giving me a sniper, I literally had a sniper in my hands the entire time. I ended up goins 20-7, with seventeen of them being sniper kills. And on top of that, all but one was a headshot(not trying to brag here, just saying it's not like they had too many chances to run away). Now am I trying to take sole credit for that win? Hell no--both Max and M24C put in way more slaying power than me. What I will take a large chunk of credit for is helping my team maintain mid control. If REDDWATCH popped out of their base for a half second too long, they'd either get their shields dropped or outright killed, making it much harder for them to push mid and take control. I understand that's the power of the sniper but without personal ordnance it would've been a much closer game (as my time with it would've been halved), and it could have easily swung in REDWATCH's favor. (Shoutout to all you guys for your great sportsmanship, btw! <3)

[xXReiBearXx]

Oh god this is the bolt shot thread all over again

[Fateless Wolf]

holy shit I didn't think this many replies would be done withing 10 hours not even since I last posted o_o

[Nicholas Sapien]

holy shit I didn't think this many replies would be done withing 10 hours not even since I last posted o_o

welcome to FC

[FC Enforcer]

really ok some of you guys lost me by like the 7 page changing the subject a little. but i think there should be a little change but not a major change but really all i do is play with u guys for fun not to much as hahaha we won and trash talk that gets stupid but i agree with most of u on this thread and i agree with some of the blues also on their posts. but really i heard some people had problems with the drops but i didnt really but my game did cut it real close because of the swords droping alot for the other team but still did good and killed them. some drops are easy to counter then others really but thats all i got to say for now.

[Graycochea]

I don't really care for ordinance drops, but I'd rather see something happen with the boltshot. I mean if we're gonna change something like ordinance drops and not do something about spawning with a tone-deaf shotgun, we may as well keep the injustice going and install a dictatorship(in our country, not FC. FC is already a dictatorship). NOT THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OUR GLORIOUS LEADER.

All Hail Anarchy.

[Harry]

While I think power weapons are cool and all...

Sometimes, there is a point when a line gets crossed.

[HighLight]

I don't really care for ordinance drops, but I'd rather see something happen with the boltshot. I mean if we're gonna change something like ordinance drops and not do something about spawning with a tone-deaf shotgun, we may as well keep the injustice going and install a dictatorship(in our country, not FC. FC is already a dictatorship). NOT THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OUR GLORIOUS LEADER.


I fully agree with this. I'd much rather see a 'ban' on the bolt-shot than ordinances be taken out. Although I'm completely okay with both happening.

[Jam Cliché]

What if we move the Boltshot to Ordnance to help dilute it?

[Nicholas Sapien]

What if we move the Boltshot to Ordnance to help dilute it?

I don't think its possible

[Jam Cliché]

I don't think its possible

Yeah it is. You can add anything to Ordnance. Armor Abilities even.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Yeah it is. You can add anything to Ordnance. Armor Abilities even.

yeah but how can you remove that from the loadouts we have? We would have to get rid of personal loadouts to get rid of the Boltshot

[Al Capone111]

Ordinance isn't going away for the simple fact that you can't exploit it in the same way a person can exploit the BS. There is no way that you can tilt the game in your teams favor to give your team a higher chance of rockets or other power weapons in any single drop.

If REDD gets the first OD of the game and the choices are Needler, shotgun, and speed boost on a large map then they really don't have a advantage. If it's a small map then they do get the edge in this case (Counter it with the BS, we all know it has longer range than the Shotty)

And unless one team is doing exceptionally well or extremely pitiful, both teams should be getting fairly close to the same amount of drops. (Could someone go through statbook and the game logs and find out what the average OD per game is for each army? Only needs to be done for one week.)

[HighLight]

yeah but how can you remove that from the loadouts we have? We would have to get rid of personal loadouts to get rid of the Boltshot

Yeah that's the only problem. Would it at all be possible to just ban it from play. Sort of what game battles does with certain weapons in call of duty? Would we be able to trust each other enough?

And the problem with ordinances is that they are random. If two teams both get their ordinances around the same time and one team gets rockets or a sniper while the other team gets just a speed boost then the team with the better weapons will be able to secure map control a lot easier. This creates for a much harder battle for the team who got the speed boost.

[xXReiBearXx]

I don't care for ordinance drops but, the point of it is a award system for doing well in battle right? I think that is fair. Kind of like how CoD had perks for killing sprees. I think if anything(unlike the boltshit) the Ordinance should stay to give players a reason to do better during game battles so that they can have the upper hand. It encourages players to do well to obtain a reward. GET RID OF THE BOLTSHIT AND KEEP ORDINANCE!

[xXReiBearXx]

I'll make it simple.

All you all spamming the threads, cut it out. If you've voice an opinion, good. Stating it 6 more times over and over will get you an infraction.

Second, all I see, no offense, is one R.E.D.D. team all against it, which tells me it's more of a "we can't win when the other team has a bunch of power weapons" rather than a community wide concern.

As WD, unless it's a majority in the War Council, ordinance drops will not be changing anytime soon. Get used to it.

Love ya to death Cody but I have to call you out.

The point of the SUGGESTIONS section is for just this reason. Regardless if you consider it bitching or not we are more than entitled to speak our likes and dislikes as long as it stays respectful and breaks no rules. It isn't spamming it is merely conversation and opinions. With all due respect...

[Nicholas Sapien]

Yeah that's the only problem. Would it at all be possible to just ban it from play. Sort of what game battles does with certain weapons in call of duty? Would we be able to trust each other enough?

And the problem with ordinances is that they are random. If two teams both get their ordinances around the same time and one team gets rockets or a sniper while the other team gets just a speed boost then the team with the better weapons will be able to secure map control a lot easier. This creates for a much harder battle for the team who got the speed boost.

We could do that, but we must tell everyone in the army and give it some time before it sinks in. I would say 1 or 2 weeks, so that if someone uses their boltshot in that period of time they won't get penalized heavily. After that period of time, there should be a zero tolerance policy of using the boltshot. IMO


I don't care for ordinance drops but, the point of it is a award system for doing well in battle right? I think that is fair. Kind of like how CoD had perks for killing sprees. I think if anything(unlike the boltshit) the Ordinance should stay to give players a reason to do better during game battles so that they can have the upper hand. It encourages players to do well to obtain a reward. GET RID OF THE BOLTSHIT AND KEEP ORDINANCE!

I never saw anything wrong with the ordinance drops, they go both ways for either team.
We can put the boltshot in ordinance drops if they still want it that badly. IMO

[xXReiBearXx]

The main reason I don't care for ordinace drops is the similarity to CoD. If I wanted to play CoD I would play CoD. Either way I have to say I think that it should stay.

[bazongaman502]

Yeah that's the only problem. Would it at all be possible to just ban it from play.

We could, but the only way we can tell no one used it is by having someone watch every single match played that night to make sure no one used it... and im pretty sure i speak for just about everyone. No one has that kind of time to do that lol

[Nicholas Sapien]

We could, but the only way we can tell no one used it is by having someone watch every single match played that night to make sure no one used it... and im pretty sure i speak for just about everyone. No one has that kind of time to do that lol

We can do that. People never pass up the chance to say"He teabagged me or insulted me" so why would using a boltshot be any different? People would say that the other team used it, so they can forfeit their match and the other team that reported it wins.

[KazuhLLL]

We can do that. People never pass up the chance to say"He teabagged me or insulted me" so why would using a boltshot be any different? People would say that the other team used it, so they can forfeit their match and the other team that reported it wins.

For whatever reason that's a very unpopular solution. :P
(I understand that Boltshots don't go against "the foundations of this community" like the other two, but still).



Oh, and :off topic:
Please try to get back on to the subject of ordnance.

[Nicholas Sapien]

hehe I want to go on with the boltshot and why I think we are keeping but this is not the place(plus im lazy)

So... ordnance helps both sides whether it changes the tide of battle or it contributes a little bit. I think it should stay
IMO

[Rymt]

I think it should go, hasn't the one thing that really separated Halo from other shooters is the base simplicity of it. Its just you and you're gun, exactly why Halo 2 and Halo 3 got a lot of love. At least from what I've seen. Ordinance drops is way too much like CoD, if I wanted to play CoD, I would put that disk in. I come on Halo because I want to play Halo and not CoD... Halo has always been a simple game and we should keep that core fundamental of the game that makes Halo Halo. At least as much as we can. I haven't played an FC game with Ordinance drops yet and am only basing my opinion off of what I've seen in Matchmaking.

[xXReiBearXx]

*wonders how many pages this post gets until it's locked*

Taking all bets! I say it gets to 15

[Al Capone111]

Just tweak them a bit. (We already have gametypes for 4v4, 6v6, and 8v8 maps right?) So just change the odds or score for each one a bit. In reality the 4v4 maps are mostly close quarters, so weapons like sniper class weapons should be at the lowest chance of occurring, while the shotgun, sword and other close quarters weapons have a higher chance.

6v6 maps have all the weapons at a fairly equal chance of occurring. Since these tend to have a few vehicles maybe bump the anti vehicle weapons a bit. Have the needed score higher than the 4v4 maps, maybe only one or two kills more.

8v8 tend to be the biggest and most open maps. So obviously the shotgun would be fairly useless in most cases. And heavy vehicles can easily be a hot item. So bump the score up higher than the 6v6. Make heavy anti vehicle weapons spawn at a higher rate than normal. Snipers included.

This would take a lot of play testing and tweaking. So we would need constructive input and feedback that actually helps. Not just people bitching.

[xXReiBearXx]

I would lieke to remind everyone of the boltshot poll.

Basically what we got out of that was this:

During the beta that was our chance to want change. People spoke their opinions and this is the end result. I suggest we all just deal with it. WC isn't going to make changes now. Maybe next war. But for now it's basically play the games the way it is now or just simply not play. Trust me I agree 100% with both polls (the boltshot and this one) but I have come to the conclusion that nothing is going to change right now and constantly talking about it will just result in people getting more and more pissed off and straying away from the fun factor that is suppose to be FC.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Just tweak them a bit. (We already have gametypes for 4v4, 6v6, and 8v8 maps right?) So just change the odds or score for each one a bit. In reality the 4v4 maps are mostly close quarters, so weapons like sniper class weapons should be at the lowest chance of occurring, while the shotgun, sword and other close quarters weapons have a higher chance.

6v6 maps have all the weapons at a fairly equal chance of occurring. Since these tend to have a few vehicles maybe bump the anti vehicle weapons a bit. Have the needed score higher than the 4v4 maps, maybe only one or two kills more.

8v8 tend to be the biggest and most open maps. So obviously the shotgun would be fairly useless in most cases. And heavy vehicles can easily be a hot item. So bump the score up higher than the 6v6. Make heavy anti vehicle weapons spawn at a higher rate than normal. Snipers included.

This would take a lot of play testing and tweaking. So we would need constructive input and feedback that actually helps. Not just people bitching.

I think the reason Myth didn't do that is cause thats waaay too many gametypes to keep track of and keep updated.

[Al Capone111]

I think the reason Myth didn't do that is cause thats waaay too many gametypes to keep track of and keep updated.

I'm just tossing out ideas instead of complaining like a child. Maybe someone else could help Myth carry this out or something. Myth does a lot, but in all seriousness even he has his limits.

[Jam Cliché]

yeah but how can you remove that from the loadouts we have? We would have to get rid of personal loadouts to get rid of the Boltshot

Oh, trust me, you can.

[Anarchy]

Thing is, even with this poll, 29 people want to keep ordinances in some way, and 23 don't, which brings the majority to be voting to keep them, so chances are they aren't going anywhere

As far as tweaking them goes, no ones going to ignore anyone. We tweaked a lot with ordinances in the beta war, we can do it again if needed. But the customization is limited, we don't get to pick exact percentages. We'd need specifics on recommendations, not just "make these spawn less", because generally massive amounts of power weapons don't get dropped, and if they did, and there are 2-3 rocket launchers on the map, you've hit a like 1% chance. Then lowering the chance of rockets spawning from an isolated event would put it to like 0.75%, not a huge change.

So if you want tweaks, go onto Halo, check out the specifics of our current gametypes, and recommend specific changes. It's easier for us to make clear decisions like that then do all the work of testing changes you guys may not want.

[Al Capone111]

I haven't even looked at creating gametypes in H4 yet. So I don't know exactly how it works.

[Project X A02]

From what I see:

REDD: Ordinance SUCK get rid of them!

BLUE(While adjusting their glasses) There's no need for fuss, you have as any chance as ever to earn ordinance and turn the tide of battle...so chill?!?

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

I have a theory that needs testing. Have you guys ever tried going on the map and setting like only 2 rockets per map, like you would if you spawned them directly on the map, and see if it effects ordinance?

[Mythonian]

I have a theory that needs testing. Have you guys ever tried going on the map and setting like only 2 rockets per map, like you would if you spawned them directly on the map, and see if it effects ordinance?

It doesn't affect ordnance, unfortunately.

[Project X A02]

14 Pages and counting!!!

[Jam Cliché]

From what I see:

REDD: Ordinance SUCK get rid of them!

BLUE(While adjusting their glasses) There's no need for fuss, you have as any chance as ever to earn ordinance and turn the tide of battle...so chill?!?

Without ordnance, you have to rely on weapons on the map - what happens if the enemy has control of the map's power spawns? Same problem, eh? Which will be the occurrence, and then folks will want ordnance back.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Without ordnance, you have to rely on weapons on the map - what happens if the enemy has control of the map's power spawns? Same problem, eh? Which will be the occurrence, and then folks will want ordnance back.

However, that is the way Halo has always been played. Map Control = the advantage. That is the skill required of Halo.

[Rymt]

Halo has always been the game where you had to work to get the power weapons and then dominate with them to keep the lead (or get it).

[Project X A02]

However, that is the way Halo has always been played. Map Control = the advantage. That is the skill required of Halo.

Agreed, that is indeed how Halo's been played for the past 10 years! There were still complaints but at that time the only remedy was to improve your skills and counter your enemy! Which brings me to another subject but I may start seperate thread to cover this though.

[PanicPhan]

Why can we not keep the tried and true and expand it from there? Why the huge need to completely expand the game during war 1?

[zaradomerix]

Who wants a game that is completely predictable? Really? Cause that usually kills a game for me. And the practices and spawns DO mean something. They called in a sniper. Good thing a sniper spawns on the map so I can grab it and kill the guy who called it in.

And, if people do really pass up the initial spawns as much as they are being claimed to (which I, personally, haven't seen), then there's your strategy right there. Other team isn't grabbing anything? Looks like you've got a team of power weapons alllllll to yourself.

And as far as people being scared by unpredictability, well that's just part of gaming. Again, who wants something that is completely predictable? That's part of the fun of it. What I see here is people getting too caught up in their KD ratios and battle results to remember to just have fun with it. Would you really want every single week to be predictable, and essentially the same?

they called in a sniper.... good thing we have a sniper huh? except they also have a sniper spawn on their side. so they now have two snipers and i have one. so that is still unfair. (thank you for proving my point).

and other team isnt grabbing anything? oh gee i better run out in the open and grab that gun in the middle of the map... BANG BANG BANG!!! oh thats right! their camping in the corner with God's sniper rifle blowing my brain out every time i go for one of those guns they wont pick up. whats that?! theyve run out of ammo!? quick! bum rush the guns before they can get to them!!! BANG BANG BANG!!!! oh thats right... ordinance is infinate, so with those kills they just got with their God rifles they can keep getting more ordinance and they dont have to move an inch to dominate my ass......... GAME OVER!!!!!! XD.....

[Al Capone111]

If it takes three sniper shots to kill one person, someone is doing something wrong. And you act like they are going to get sniper in every drop. Someone figure out the odds of a person who got 3 drops in one game and all three were snipers using Myths proposed ordinance drop rates. (See the other locked topic. First post)

[Jam Cliché]

If it takes three sniper shots to kill one person, someone is doing something wrong. And you act like they are going to get sniper in every drop. Someone figure out the odds of a person who got 3 drops in one game and all three were snipers using Myths proposed ordinance drop rates. (See the other locked topic. First post)

The issue I see with many of Zaradomerix's posts is that he fails to take into account the actual settings when forming his scenarios. While our suggestions make every attempt to account for the general state of the game, he ignores the specifics while claiming that all games would play out exactly how he describes. While it is clear that he is seeking to debate any inherent flaw in the system, the situations he makes up are still very rare. For instance, the odds of a single player gaining a Sniper Rifle during each of his 3 Ordnance drops would be 0.073%. And that would only be in Heavy gametypes, since the Sniper would not be available as a drop in Regular gametypes.

NOTE: I suggest we confine this discussion to this thread only - the thread entitled "Playtested the Compromise" should relate only to the results of any game testing done with the proposed settings and suggested revisions. Not that I think anything from here will necessarily carry over; I just advise that we not blur the discussions among these topics, as there have been so many generated lately. However, we can still bring up Ordnance-related elements from the Compromise thread, as they are extremely relevant here.

[Al Capone111]

0.073%? Wow! That will happen so frequently. It might actually happen once this war! OH NO!


Look Zar, the only way the situation you laid out will happen is if other players share their drops. Could that happen? Sure. Will that happen? Maybe. If that happens will it happen all it will be rare.

[Jam Cliché]

0.073%? Wow! That will happen so frequently. It might actually happen once this war! OH NO!


Look Zar, the only way the situation you laid out will happen is if other players share their drops. Could that happen? Sure. Will that happen? Maybe. If that happens will it happen all it will be rare.
I should note that given the right conditions, the chances can be as high as 20% in one battle night.
If we played two 8v8 maps in one night, meaning ~20 games, and ALL the players in each game managed 3 drops, then by the end of the battle night, there's a 20% chance that one player would have gotten 3 snipers in one of his/her games.

This does not mean that each game has a 20% chance of dropping 3 snipers for each player, though, so don't get that confused.

[Al Capone111]

Meh, could be worse. Still, I see a 80% chance of it not happening.

[Jam Cliché]

Meh, could be worse. Still, I see a 80% chance of it not happening.

Plus it would require some amazing performance on behalf of every participator.

[Kcr33d]

ugh, I don't see a problem with this.... I didn't realize that ordinance drops was such a big issue

[Al Capone111]

Since many people seem to think that removing the BS or OD from the game will put FC on a "Slippery slope" to having no weapons in game and us merely running around beating the shit out of each other with fisticuffs. I will leave you all with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brXI0AQOt2k

I really don't a problem with that. Everyone is just looking at it the wrong way. We should totally go for this. Thank you Donkey for showing me this.


*This post was done as a joke. So don't get your panties in a bunch people*