Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise

[Mythonian]

As with everything posted in the Suggestions forum, we read and listen to the recommendations made by members. The following is a result of the Boltshot issue (http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread.php?8995-BOLT-SHOT), Personal Ordnance issue (http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread.php?9224-Ordinance-Drop-during-battles), and a few other smaller ones.

First of all, the votes cast in those two aforementioned polls were split pretty evenly. They are obviously divisive issues at the moment, and therefore deserve a nice compromise.


There is one way to remove Boltshots without going to preset loadouts. This was told to me by Jam, who discovered it while messing with settings.

In the base player traits, you can designate a secondary weapon, such as the Magnum. This will override the personal loadouts, meaning that all your loadouts will use the Magnum instead of Plasma Pistol or Boltshot, but you can still select whatever Primary, Grenade, Tactical Package, and Support Upgrade you want.

Now, this would be a way to remove it completely, but as a side effect it also removes the Plasma Pistol. What we can do is add them to the Personal Ordnance, which would also end up making the heavy power weapons less likely to occur.

This would also be accompanied by a remodeling of the Personal Ordnance setup, as well as adjusting the number of points required to receive Ordnance.


Here is an early proposal of a possible Ordnance setup:



Left Slot (Niche Weapon)

Needler (w=3; 30%)
Concussion Rifle (w=3; 30%)
Plasma Pistol (w=2; 20%)
Boltshot (w=2; 20%)


Bottom Slot (Main Ordnance)

Shotgun (w=1; 20%)
Energy Sword (w=1; 20%)
SAW (w=1; 20%)
Sticky Detonator (w=1; 20%)
Railgun (w=1; 20%)


Right Slot (Powerup/Grenades)

Speed Boost (w=2; 18%)
Damage Boost (w=1; 9%)
Overshield (w=2; 18%)
Frag Grenades (w=2; 18%)
Plasma Grenades (w=2; 18%)
Pulse Grenades (w=2; 18%)




Regular Ordnance would have the Rocket Launcher and Sniper Rifle removed, which will be featured more on the maps.



Left Slot (Niche Weapon)

Needler (w=2; 20%)
Concussion Rifle (w=2; 20%)
Plasma Pistol (w=3; 30%)
Boltshot (w=1; 10%)
Shotgun (w=1; 10%)
Energy Sword (w=1; 10%)


Bottom Slot (Main Ordnance)

SAW (w=3; 27%)
Sticky Detonator (w=3; 27%)
Railgun (w=2; 18%)
Fuel Rod Cannon (w=1; 9%)
Rocket Launcher (w=1; 9%)
Sniper Rifle (w=1; 9%)


Right Slot (Powerup/Grenades)

Speed Boost (w=2; 25%)
Damage Boost (w=1; 13%)
Overshield (w=2; 25%)
Frag Grenades (w=1; 13%)
Plasma Grenades (w=1; 13%)
Pulse Grenades (w=1; 13%)




Heavy Ordnance would have the Gravity Hammer, Beam Rifle, and Spartan Laser removed, some of which will likely respawn on the map itself, depending on vehicles.

Ordnance would be earned every 150 instead of 200 points.


Additionally, since the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol would be almost never used in the Ordnance, they will spawn on the map (not with 5 minute respawns, probably 30 seconds most of the time), so this will allow you guys to pick up the desired secondary weapon, but won't immediately have it off of spawn. This will be especially true of the Plasma Pistols.

On a side note, we may be adjusting power weapon respawns on maps. Before, we had everything respawn every 5 minutes. We may adjust that so that certain weapons spawn faster than others. No specific details, as this is something map-specific.


TL;DR:

We can force you to spawn with Magnums but still keep Personal Loadouts.
Boltshots and Plasma Pistols in Ordnance.
Rockets/Snipers removed from Regular Ordnance.
Gravity Hammer, Beam Rifle, and Spartan Laser removed from Heavy Ordnance.
Ordnance received more frequently (150 instead of 200 points)
Boltshots and Plasma Pistols on the maps, able to be picked up if wanted.
May adjust other power weapon respawns on maps.


So, vote in the poll above with you opinion of this, and give us your thoughts in a reply below.

[JIMI HENRIX]

This seems to be a great step forward, but i dislike the idea of forcing everyone to spawn with the magnum. IDK but maybe there is a way to block certain load out traits. And i think we need to give the ordinance drop changes a test run, and have a few unofficial games that don't count, and see how people like them.

[Fuzzy]

Me gusta, but I like snipers in ordinance.

[Specact]

Beam rifle is my favorite power weapon… :( But this is a good proposal. With some testing I think we can find an ideal solution.

[Mythonian]

This seems to be a great step forward, but i dislike the idea of forcing everyone to spawn with the magnum. IDK but maybe there is a way to block certain load out traits. And i think we need to give the ordinance drop changes a test run, and have a few unofficial games that don't count, and see how people like them.

That's one of the things I hope that 343 adds eventually, but at the moment you cannot simply block a Boltshot from being used without other things being affected.

We will definitely be testing this a lot. We have 2 weeks, so we have plenty of time to make sure we fine-tune this.

[JamiDJ]

let me know, i'm back and ready to test

[Coda]

This sounds... Wonderful. I don't know how this will turn out, but this sounds awesome

[KazuhLLL]

Jam, you are a gentleman and a scholar. I couldn't have asked for a better solution for the Boltshot!

And I like the suggested ordnance adjustments, as well. The only issue I have is that I think it should stay at 200 score for Heavy gametypes only but I guess we'll see if 150 is too little when we test.



Me gusta, but I like snipers in ordinance.
They'd only be removed from regular gametypes (AKA small maps). Because of this, Snipers will be more likely to be put on small maps as static ordnance. Hopefully this will encourage more map-control centered strategies a la H2, H3, and Reach. Like Myth said, weapon timers are likely to be adjusted so they'll probably spawn fairly frequently anyway. The only difference is that you'll have to expose yourselves to try and get the sniper rather than calling in an ordnance from the comfort of your own base.

[Al Capone111]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m573cm446k1rtjw1mo 1_250.gif

This may need some further tweaking down the line. But I'd say this sounds great. Let's run with this for a few (2-3) weeks and see how we like it.

[Gargoyle]

The community voiced and we made an extremely good compromise.

I love this suggest and fully back it, good work Jam!

[Nicholas Sapien]

Approved

[UNLUCKY NUM13ER]

I honestly like how we already have it but it seems as if this will help everyone stop complaining.

Also I would like to see Beam/Binary rifle in ordinance as well as the incineration cannon but thats just me. This all looks great Myth.

[Jam Cliché]

Thank you for your feedback, everyone. This is by no means a "scholarly" idea, but I certainly don't mind being told I am brilliant. =D

It is all the while thanks to Myth for working hard as he does with gametype adjustments, as well as the War Council for considering my idea and forwarding it to the community. I know that not everyone minds the Boltshot, and some people will be equally concerned about not starting with a Plasma Pistol, but after the Boltshot thread got so heated, I just got it in my head that something had to be done (the next day I woke up with the idea for the solution, so I literally "slept on it"). When the Ordnance Drop issues came up as well, I had already discovered the trick for the Boltshot. I feel now that this compromise can amend both issues in ways that please both sides of their respective arguments.

It will be awkward for all of us at first - even though it is my idea, I know I will be weirded out when my BTB loadout has a Magnum in it. I urge everyone to consider the method carefully and decide for yourselves whether it will be difficult to adjust or not. I don't feel it is a huge change in itself, but can be a monumental change for the games as they proceed here at FC.

You may continue calling me a scholar, if that's cool.

[Nicholas Sapien]

How will we counter vehicles though?

[Platinum]

How will we counter vehicles though?

Plasmas will spawn on map

[Jam Cliché]

The best way to counter vehicles is to increase their respawn times, possibly to 5 or 6 minutes if not already. This way, not only are vehicles more capable of lasting longer (fewer PP shots), but they are also infrequent, increasing the value they have on the outcome of the match.

[Mythonian]

I honestly like how we already have it but it seems as if this will help everyone stop complaining.

Also I would like to see Beam/Binary rifle in ordinance as well as the incineration cannon but thats just me. This all looks great Myth.

Personally I see the Binary and Incineration Cannon as ordnance that should be on the map itself (for example we had an Incineration Cannon on Ragnarok during the Beta War).


The best way to counter vehicles is to increase their respawn times, possibly to 5 or 6 minutes if not already. This way, not only are vehicles more capable of lasting longer (fewer PP shots), but they are also infrequent, increasing the value they have on the outcome of the match.

The respawn timers only go up to 180 seconds (3 minutes). I believe it can be done using the Dominion Vehicle Pads, but the "charging" timers can be buggy sometimes, so I'm not sure about using them... We can test things out and see how they work.


Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.

[Al Capone111]

Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.

I should be on. Shoot me an invite

[THExSPIDERMAN]

I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.

[Jam Cliché]

I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.
Yes, Firepower is another option that has been neutralized by this, but it is a far lesser concern than the secondary weapon debate itself. Besides, this means that your loadout which uses Firepower can use something else.

[PanicPhan]

I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.

[Deaf]

Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic. You're going to alienate many current players and cause much less recruitment. Halo has evolved since its Halo 2 and 3 days, we have to keep moving forward. You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it. Just don't chase people around corners. I personally run nearly every REDD recruit through their boot camps, and I can think of one who used the magnum. It's stupid to take away things that exist and are popular in the game. This pisses me off. The only way I could ever get on board with this is if we just went to straight MLG weapons. A battle rifle and a magnum for everyone and leave the rest up to the players. I would definitely make the argument that the DMR is far more overpowered than the boltshot. But unless you're going to do that, leave ordinance how it is or our entire community will suffer. But I did vote that I liked part of this idea because I do approve of limiting the ordinance drops,though I prefer they not exist so we could only use skill to tell the difference.

[KazuhLLL]

How will we counter vehicles though?
You can still spawn with 2-3 plasma grenades. Those plus team DMR/BR-ing is extremely effective.


Personally I see the Binary and Incineration Cannon as ordnance that should be on the map itself (for example we had an Incineration Cannon on Ragnarok during the Beta War).
Agreed. Those are far too powerful to be earned in ordnance.


The respawn timers only go up to 180 seconds (3 minutes). I believe it can be done using the Dominion Vehicle Pads, but the "charging" timers can be buggy sometimes, so I'm not sure about using them... We can test things out and see how they work.
If plasmas and DMR's aren't enough, simply sticking a PP in or near each team's base with ~1min respawn timer should be sufficient. IMO the only vehicles that actually need a PP to counter effectively are the Scorpion, Wraith, and maybe the Gauss Hog.


Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.
Fortunately that's the same time as the BP practice, so hopefully I'll be able to get at least 4-5 guys on.


I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.
First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change.
To actually address you're points, though: As someone who plays Halo fairly well I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users. Yes, with a bit of care you can avoid all of the users that suck with it (or are just bad at Halo itself) but a skilled player using the Boltshot will likely end up killing you because of the tiny charge time* of the gun and the absolutely ridiculous range. And the part about stickies is pretty moot because I'd say sticks account for (literally) less than 1/100 of my deaths compared to the Boltshot's 1/10 or so.


*Those who aren't very practiced with the Boltshot may not know that (unlike the Spartan Laser) you do not have to wait for the Boltshot to fire by itself. Once the flaps on the side are fully extended you may let go of the trigger and it will fire at full power--cutting the charge time to about half. This goes for the Railgun as well.

[Al Capone111]

I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/296/e/c/spider_man_vs_raid_176_by _g_ship-d31dh24.jpg

Oh no, we are changing how the minority of people play. Boohoo. Boltshot and Plasma Pistol will still be on the map. How about you try it before complaining.

[Nicholas Sapien]

keep it civil
:)

[THExSPIDERMAN]

http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/296/e/c/spider_man_vs_raid_176_by _g_ship-d31dh24.jpg

Oh no, we are changing how the minority of people play. Boohoo. Boltshot and Plasma Pistol will still be on the map. How about you try it before complaining.

The majority of redd uses boltshots.

[Al Capone111]

The majority of redd uses boltshots.

Uses or relies on it?

And the majority of BLUE doesn't. So instead of one option that favors one army solely, how about we try this option which atleast tries to meet mid way. If it doesn't work, I am willing to bet my car that there will be no shortage of people pissing and moaning here on the forums.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

"First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change."

I'm not against change in Halo as long as it's done by experts who know what they're doing (343), I'm against people who didn't make the game changing it because of some sore losers and ruining play styles.

"As someone who plays Halo fairly well I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users."
Of course smart decisions won't protect you from all of them, there's not a weapon in the game that smart decisions could completely protect you from. But it will protect you from most of them.

"tiny charge time* of the gun and the absolutely ridiculous range."
That tiny charge time gives me more than enough time to dodge, and that "ridiculous range" is like

[Jam Cliché]

I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.

You have made yourself abundantly clear when we discussed this in the past. But very few people can agree on how to treat this feature. That is why we are trying to add more powerful ordnance weapons to the maps themselves and mid-range power ordnance weapons to drops.


Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic... You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it.
The majority of redd uses boltshots.
I just don't see why nobody sees that one's playstyle should not be designed around a secondary weapon. If they are, then said weapon is overpowered. Is it more powerful than power weapons? Perhaps not, but it is clearly too powerful to fulfill its role as secondary.

Anyway, it isn't being removed, it is merely being moved out of the hands of players who just spawned and being put on the map. This is a compromise. Remember that while the majority of REDD may use Boltshots, you also have members in your faction who outright refuse to play because of them.

[KazuhLLL]

I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.
I must say that none of this makes sense to me. You want ordnance removed completely yet are against this proposed limitation of ordnance (it will never be removed completely because ~50% of people like it). And from what I'm inferring from the rest of it, you prefer everyone to start off on the same playing field and only win because one team is better. Limiting ordnance makes the field itself quite a bit more fair and making everyone spawn with magnums is literally putting them on the same field.


Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic. You're going to alienate many current players and cause much less recruitment. Halo has evolved since its Halo 2 and 3 days, we have to keep moving forward. You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it. Just don't chase people around corners. I personally run nearly every REDD recruit through their boot camps, and I can think of one who used the magnum. It's stupid to take away things that exist and are popular in the game. This pisses me off. The only way I could ever get on board with this is if we just went to straight MLG weapons. A battle rifle and a magnum for everyone and leave the rest up to the players. I would definitely make the argument that the DMR is far more overpowered than the boltshot. But unless you're going to do that, leave ordinance how it is or our entire community will suffer. But I did vote that I liked part of this idea because I do approve of limiting the ordinance drops,though I prefer they not exist so we could only use skill to tell the difference.
I'm sorry, but the first two of those underlined statements are completely proven invalid (in the context of the FC player-base) by the results of the Boltshot poll (http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread.php?8995-BOLT-SHOT). The majority of people in FC (that use the forums) want the Boltshot gone. Here is a solution that makes it mostly gone, yet still allows for it on occasion.
As far as the last statement goes, I find myself wanting to repeat what I just said to PanicPhan. If the idea of a fair playing field is ideal to you, then why be so up in arms about everyone starting with the same secondary? Yes, the field was fair before this proposal (because everyone could spawn with the Boltshot if they so chose) but by spawning with magnums, it deters camping playstyles. And if you're a fan of MLG like your post suggests, then you may agree that (in general) more map movement=more entertaining gameplay.

[silversleek]

i put yes, but i'm rather indifferent. I use the boltshot, but i'd be willing to see how this works. Although the big issue i see is the lack of a plasma pistol, which will make vehicles dominate any map they're on.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

"First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change."
I don't have a problem with change when done by professionals (343), but I'm against when people wanting to ruin play styles because they can't counter them.

"I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users."
There's not a weapon in the game that can be completely countered by smart decisions. How ever you can survive most boltshot situations by thinking quickly. Things like "I shouldn't turn that corner, I hear the boltshot charging." Or things like "I shouldn't chase that guy like an idiot, he has a bolt shot." save my life all the time.

"absolutely ridiculous range."
It's a close range weapon. I can back up with the thruster and be out of range for a one shot kill.

You also need to think about what you're doing. You're trying to FORCE people to change their playstyle because it includes a gun you can't counter. How would you like it if the even bigger noobs thought the DMR and Br were overpowered, and tried to force everyone to use assault rifles?

- - - Updated - - -


Uses or relies on it?

And the majority of BLUE doesn't. So instead of one option that favors one army solely, how about we try this option which atleast tries to meet mid way. If it doesn't work, I am willing to bet my car that there will be no shortage of people pissing and moaning here on the forums.

Favors both sides? It destroys the playstyle of one side because the other can't handle it.

[Jam Cliché]

Things like "I shouldn't turn that corner, I hear the boltshot charging." Or things like "I shouldn't chase that guy like an idiot, he has a bolt shot." save my life all the time.
...
"absolutely ridiculous range."
It's a close range weapon. I can back up with the thruster and be out of range for a one shot kill.
...
Favors both sides? It destroys the playstyle of one side because the other can't handle it.
The Boltshot can beat Shotgun, Sword, Hamer, and Scattershot, because it has a longer range. I should not have to be in fear of a player's starting weapons when using a power weapon in close range.
And, as I said, it does not destroy anything. The weapon is still there, just not in overabundance.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

The Boltshot can beat Shotgun, Sword, Hamer, and Scattershot, because it has a longer range. I should not have to be in fear of a player's starting weapons when using a power weapon in close range.
And, as I said, it does not destroy anything. The weapon is still there, just not in overabundance.

Again, you're only going to get killed by the boltshot if you walk into it after it's charging. Fake them out. It makes a really loud noise.

[Jam Cliché]

Again, you're only going to get killed by the boltshot if you walk into it after it's charging. Fake them out. It makes a really loud noise.
I have only started using the Boltshot myself recently. I have had encounters where I spot a sword user sprinting toward me, and I have time to switch, charge, and kill them in 2 seconds or less, and they lunged.

You see, the advantage should be the other way around. If I hear a user charging his Boltshot to rush ME, I should still be able to use my Shotgun to off him first. It is a power weapon. I deserve to be able to act confidently. Instead, the Boltshot still wins, even when I am cautious, so I have to weave, dodge, run, etc. When I say "me", I refer to players in general.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

I have only started using the Boltshot myself recently. I have had encounters where I spot a sword user sprinting toward me, and I have time to switch, charge, and kill them in 2 seconds or less, and they lunged.

You see, the advantage should be the other way around. If I hear a user charging his Boltshot to rush ME, I should still be able to use my Shotgun to off him first. It is a power weapon. I deserve to be able to act confidently. Instead, the Boltshot still wins, even when I am cautious, so I have to weave, dodge, run, etc. When I say "me", I refer to players in general.

If you had the time to do that, you would have time to 5 shot him with a Br. And the boltshot is nothing compared to the shotgun. If you get killed by a boltshot while using the shotgun just take your halo 4 disc and throw it in a toaster oven. The shotgun does more damage than the scattershot and has no charge.

[Jam Cliché]

And the boltshot is nothing compared to the shotgun. If you get killed by a boltshot while using the shotgun just take your halo 4 disc and throw it in a toaster oven. The shotgun does more damage than the scattershot and has no charge.

The Shotgun has a shorter range and only does more damage when you talk about the damage done outside each weapon's kill range.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

The Shotgun has a shorter range and only does more damage when you talk about the damage done outside each weapon's kill range.

When it's extremely easy to move out of the boltshots kill range, it's a big deal.

[Jam Cliché]

When it's extremely easy to move out of the boltshots kill range, it's a big deal.
Easier to move out of the Shotgun's kill range, since it's shorter and narrower.

[H2O Yordle]

Half of these post are killing braincells everywhere.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Easier to move out of the Shotgun's kill range, since it's shorter and narrower.

It doesn't matter if you move out of its one hit kill range, it can fire 5 more shots.

[H2O Yordle]

It takes more time to try and kill someone with a shotty at middle range then it does for someone to clip (pop your sheilds) with a Boltshot and switch to another weapon and finish the kill.

Ive got an idea to solve all of this. Remove all weapons but pistols, and make flat maps. Win.

[Jam Cliché]

It doesn't matter if you move out of its one hit kill range, it can fire 5 more shots.

Doesn't get a chance to use it against a boltshot. If a shotgun user is right at very edge of a boltshot user's kill range, then he will take down shields while himself dying. No 5 more shots.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Doesn't get a chance to use it against a boltshot. If a shotgun user is right at very edge of a boltshot user's kill range, then he will take down shields while himself dying. No 5 more shots.

Lets settle this. You 1v1 me using a boltshot and I get the shotgun. Deal?

[Jam Cliché]

Biased experiment. You would get the Shotgun each time. It is not a loadout weapon.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Biased experiment. You would get the Shotgun each time. It is not a loadout weapon.

Each game has one life. You spawn with boltshot and I grab shotgun.

[Jam Cliché]

You still want to start with the weapon. You clearly want them on an even playing field. That's what we intend to do, just in reverse. ;)

[THExSPIDERMAN]

You still want to start with the weapon. You clearly want them on an even playing field. That's what we intend to do, just in reverse. ;)

Suggest an even playing field.

[Jam Cliché]

Suggest an even playing field.

Both weapons spawn on the map and are rewarded as part of ordnance drops.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Both weapons spawn on the map and are rewarded as part of ordnance drops.

One of those isn't a power weapon.

[Jam Cliché]

One of those isn't a power weapon.

Who said anything about them both being power weapons?

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Well I have to say I am completely Against this, for many reason.

However I do Agree with this


Ordnance received more frequently (150 instead of 200 points)

Only because I was against it being raised in the first place. The Ordinance pretty much makes Ordinance useless to me, and I could live with that except you RUIN MY FIREPOWER class.

The worse part is the Compromise for the Boltshot solves none of the issues people complain about. If you put it on the map then the only people that wont have a Boltshot will be the people that were not very good with it to begin with. (the Easy Kills I call them) And the ones that do pick it up will be the ones that everyone complains about.

So in Reality all you have done is given Guzzie(or anyone else) an option to get a few long range kills with the Magnum BEFORE he picks up a Boltshot and goes to town. How does that solve anything, the only ones that wont use it are the Crap players(with a Boltshot) and you know the ones that like it have no problem dropping the magnum for it. I personally Dont use the Boltshot and I find it funny when others use is against me. I could side step shottys in Halo 3 what makes you think I am scare of a boltshot. Also a member of my Fireteam loves Hardlight Shield and he loves to make boltshot users kill themselves it is the funnest thing ever maybe some of you should try it out, no?

But please please I beg of you spot messing with Ordinance pick a Setting and dont ever touch it again, I am pretty certain you have heard of my Arguement about how you guys will never Balance things if you change them.

[Jam Cliché]

Well I have to say I am completely Against this, for many reason.

However I do Agree with this



Only because I was against it being raised in the first place. The Ordinance pretty much makes Ordinance useless to me, and I could live with that except you RUIN MY FIREPOWER class.

The worse part is the Compromise for the Boltshot solves none of the issues people complain about. If you put it on the map then the only people that wont have a Boltshot will be the people that were not very good with it to begin with. (the Easy Kills I call them) And the ones that do pick it up will be the ones that everyone complains about.

So in Reality all you have done is given Guzzie(or anyone else) an option to get a few long range kills with the Magnum BEFORE he picks up a Boltshot and goes to town. How does that solve anything, the only ones that wont use it are the Crap players(with a Boltshot) and you know the ones that like it have no problem dropping the magnum for it. I personally Dont use the Boltshot and I find it funny when others use is against me. I could side step shottys in Halo 3 what makes you think I am scare of a boltshot. Also a member of my Fireteam loves Hardlight Shield and he loves to make boltshot users kill themselves it is the funnest thing ever maybe some of you should try it out, no?

But please please I beg of you spot messing with Ordinance pick a Setting and dont ever touch it again, I am pretty certain you have heard of my Arguement about how you guys will never Balance things if you change them.
Putting them on the map means you don't get them at spawn, and they have a respawn time - in other words, they are not unlimited.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Additionally, since the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol would be almost never used in the Ordnance, they will spawn on the map (not with 5 minute respawns, probably 30 seconds most of the time)

Yes like you can use all the ammo in 30 seconds

[Jam Cliché]

Yes like you can use all the ammo in 30 seconds

Well, if it doesn't change anything to you, then what difference does it make in your eyes?

[Deaf]

Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds. It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it. So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds. It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it. So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.

Okay.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Well, if it doesn't change anything to you, then what difference does it make in your eyes?

Because I get my Classes screwed with over NOTHING. How would it make you feel if I make you Spawn with a Storm Rifle just because I think the DMR/BR is unfair?

[Jam Cliché]

Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two."
Excuse me?

Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds.
I resent that.

It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it.
I like how you have to combined all three of the other options in order to form the conclusion that the majority is against it, even though the actual majority is the ~44%. Or, if you combine the first two and the last two into two sets of "like" and "dislike", then the "like" still wins. BUT, you combined all three options. I wonder how you justify this.


So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.
I don't see any civility in your whole post. You implied I am a fool and a bad player in the same paragraph.

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Because I get my Classes screwed with over NOTHING. How would it make you feel if I make you Spawn with a Storm Rifle just because I think the DMR/BR is unfair?
I would deal with it the way I did in all the Halo games.

In Halo CE, I started with just a Plasma Pistol. I went and found a pistol.
In Halo 2, an SMG. I found a BR
In Halo 3, an AR. I found another BR.
In Reach, another AR. I found a DMR.

In this case, the weapon not spawned with is the Boltshot/Plasma Pistol, and those are being put where they can be found.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Keep it civil
:)

[Jam Cliché]

Keep it civil
:)

No problem on this end.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds. It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it. So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.

Jam is a Pretty good player I have watched his games. And while I dis-agree with it, He was one of the only people that came up for a Compromise for the Boltshot situation.




But Jam the Problem is that I cant just pick up a BR or AR off the map like you can a BoltShot, So you go from a Boltshot being unfair issue to players having to change their play style majorly. That is what I am against, I cant just swap out my Magnum for a AR. The best I can do is spawn with a AR/Magnum and hope for the best.

[KazuhLLL]

It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it.
Do you just ignore all polls? -_-

Anyway, I just hope the title update next month will severely nerf the Boltshot and add better Ordnance options so everyone can quit their bitching.

[Jam Cliché]

Jam is a Pretty good player I have watched his games. And while I dis agree with it, He was one of the only people that came up for a Compromise for the Boltshot situation.




But Jam the Problem is that I cant just pick up a BR or AR off the map like you can a BoltShot, So you go from a Boltshot being unfair issue to players having to change their play style majorly. That is what I am against, I cant just swap out my Magnum for a AR. The best I can do is spawn with a AR/Magnum and hope for the best.
The BR, AR and DMR are among the most common primary weapons. Yes, I know that this affects Firepower loadouts, but it simply isn't nearly as effective towards them. Primary weapons are everywhere. Making the Magnum a secondary doesn't eliminate the primary weapon choice, so even though you don't get two, you still get one, and that isn't as big an effect. My only advice is to use a different perk than Firepower, and loot weapons off enemies.

BTW, I appreciate the support and the fact that your response is not limited to arguing over the Boltshot itself, but also discussing ramifications of changing ordnance. I also am glad to see that such a post comes from a REDD, because arguing so hotly with REDDs makes this feel like an "us vs. you". I don't want that. I will defend my idea, of course, from all opposition. Ask Silversleek. He is in my own Squad, is okay about the change, but still will argue my head off about the Boltshot.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Do you just ignore all polls? -_-

No, he's right. Only 44.12 % want to get rid of it.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I had to say, I gave the idea some thought and it just mangles up too much. If the enemy has you pressed into your base, maybe you can't make it out to Plasma Pistol spawn, or maybe you'll need multiple Plasma Pistols to take out vehicles. Or maybe when youre rushing the Mantis, your Plasma Pistol guy gets sniped so he can't turn it off and then all of you get killed, when you each could have been sporting one. Plus, it does mess up FirePower, I hadn't thought of that. Overall, I don't think the need to remove the Boltshot is too large over the need to change gameplay dynamics from the core of Halo 4.

[Jam Cliché]

No, he's right. Only 44.12 % want to get rid of it.
Which is a higher percentage than all other choices. That is a majority. Majority does not mean higher than 50%, it means the one with the most votes.

[KazuhLLL]

No, he's right. Only 44.12 % want to get rid of it.



I like how you have to combined all three of the other options in order to form the conclusion that the majority is against it, even though the actual majority is the ~44%. Or, if you combine the first two and the last two into two sets of "like" and "dislike", then the "like" still wins. BUT, you combined all three options. I wonder how you justify this.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Which is a higher percentage than all other choices. That is a majority. Majority does not mean higher than 50%, it means the one with the most votes.

Too bad the sample size is too small.

[Jam Cliché]

I had to say, I gave the idea some thought and it just mangles up too much. If the enemy has you pressed into your base, maybe you can't make it out to Plasma Pistol spawn, or maybe you'll need multiple Plasma Pistols to take out vehicles. Or maybe when youre rushing the Mantis, your Plasma Pistol guy gets sniped so he can't turn it off and then all of you get killed, when you each could have been sporting one. Plus, it does mess up FirePower, I hadn't thought of that. Overall, I don't think the need to remove the Boltshot is too large over the need to change gameplay dynamics from the core of Halo 4.
That is the thing. Players rely too much on the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol. When a team has got all the vehicles or has pushed you back to your base, they earned that. They outplayed and therefore gained an advantage that should not be so easily overcome. My goal with this idea is that more powerful outside equipment not be ruined by overpowered starting equipment, while also making that powerful outside equipment more rare and valuable to the game.

That is why I want Ordnance drops to be only medium-grade, Map Ordnance to be high-grade, Map Ordnance and Vehicles to have lengthy respawn timers, and finally the overpowered starting equipment made readily available but not automatic.

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Too bad the sample size is too small.

If that's how you feel, don't cite the statistic as fact.

[KazuhLLL]

Too bad the sample size is too small.

Apparently the sample size of US voters is often too small as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_pre sidential_elections_by_po pular_vote_margin. >.>

EDIT: Just because the majority is less than 50% doesn't mean that the data is irrelevant.

[VerbotenDonkey]

That is the thing. Players rely too much on the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol. When a team has got all the vehicles or has pushed you back to your base, they earned that. They outplayed and therefore gained an advantage that should not be so easily overcome. My goal with this idea is that more powerful outside equipment not be ruined by overpowered starting equipment, while also making that powerful outside equipment more rare and valuable to the game.


However, it's not a reliance IF the whole point of having the Plasma Pistol in the loadouts to begin with is because vehicles have received a buff AND there are certain perks that counter the Plasma Pistol. This is a mechanic that 343 has added into the game. It isn't a reliance so much more as a counter/tactic.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Yeah you have to wait a day or two before you can start talking about it like a sure thing.

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Apparently the sample size of US voters is often too small as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_pre sidential_elections_by_po pular_vote_margin. >.>

Has nothing to do with this.

[Jam Cliché]

However, it's not a reliance IF the whole point of having the Plasma Pistol in the loadouts to begin with is because vehicles have received a buff AND there are certain perks that counter the Plasma Pistol. This is a mechanic that 343 has added into the game. It isn't a reliance so much more as a counter/tactic.

But it's a free counter/tactic, while vehicles and power weapons must be earned. That seems unfair. If my team dominated and gained that kind of control, then why must we be immediately killed by players who disable our vehicles and boltshotted for stealing their flag? I wouldn't have a problem with players doing those things if they at least had to go somewhere in their own base to PICK UP a BS or PP. But getting one free for dying? Meh.

[Al Capone111]

BS and PP will most likely be placed at each teams base/main spawn with maybe one more in a neutral location (I would imagine). At thirty second respawn time you really can't complain. You (REDDS mostly) people are shutting this down without even giving it a try. That is why nothing ever gets done in this damn community.

No matter what HC does people will bitch. So your options are really as follows:

1. Deal with it
2. Leave
3. Actually propose a idea that helps.

Take your pick.

And here I will start the typical vet style rant: You new members really can't say to much. You haven't been here long enough for your voice to hold ANY weight in community affairs (army and squad affairs you might have some weight). Put in your time like the rest of us have, bite the bullet for a while, and then people will start listening to you. *End vet rant*

[THExSPIDERMAN]

But it's a free counter/tactic, while vehicles and power weapons must be earned. That seems unfair. If my team dominated and gained that kind of control, then why must we be immediately killed by players who disable our vehicles and boltshotted for stealing their flag? I wouldn't have a problem with players doing those things if they at least had to go somewhere in their own base to PICK UP a BS or PP. But getting one free for dying? Meh.

Lets make it where you have to pick up DMRs and Brs because they have a huge advantage over the assault rifle.

[Jam Cliché]

Lets make it where you have to pick up DMRs and Brs because they have a huge advantage over the assault rifle.
Agreed. We can all start with AR/Magnum/Frags, Halo 3 style. Precision weapons at each base and laid out around the map.

[VerbotenDonkey]

If you earn the Tank and then camp with your back to the wall with a clear line of sight in both directions, it's nearly impossible for a regular loadout group of players to take you out. Only way is to plasma pistol and turn you off so you can take the precious seconds to close the gap instead of it being an open field of hey lets just shell the heck of you. Or do continued passes with the Gauss/Banshee.

The Wheelman perk makes the Plasma Pistol effect last about a second anyway. So given if we were to shorten the amount of usable Plasma Pistols anyway by making it map specific, and the fact that weapons despawn too fast anyway, it gives vehicle users a huuge advantage, when they were buffed in the first place with the fact in mind that if you wanted to counter them, you should add plasma pistols to your loadout.

If you're a smart driver, it's hard enough for a plasma pistol to get at you anyway. Work with your Team to get enemies distracted first before making your passes. Play conservatively.

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And here I will start the typical vet style rant: You new members really can't say to much. You haven't been here long enough for your voice to hold ANY weight in community affairs (army and squad affairs you might have some weight). Put in your time like the rest of us have, bite the bullet for a while, and then people will start listening to you. *End vet rant*

Everyone's voice has weight. In your case then, lets not listen to Jam because he's too new? So this idea is out now?

Everyone is considered.

[JonOU812]

BS and PP will most likely be placed at each teams base/main spawn with maybe one more in a neutral location (I would imagine). At thirty second respawn time you really can't complain. You (REDDS mostly) people are shutting this down without even giving it a try. That is why nothing ever gets done in this damn community.

No matter what HC does people will bitch. So your options are really as follows:

1. Deal with it
2. Leave
3. Actually propose a idea that helps.

Take your pick.

And here I will start the typical vet style rant: You new members really can't say to much. You haven't been here long enough for your voice to hold ANY weight in community affairs (army and squad affairs you might have some weight). Put in your time like the rest of us have, bite the bullet for a while, and then people will start listening to you. *End vet rant*

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2517789_o.gif

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Agreed. We can all start with AR/Magnum/Frags, Halo 3 style. Precision weapons at each base and laid out around the map.

No, no frags. That promotes grenade spamming. Lets make it where you only start with a PP, and the weapons literally cover the maps floor. However there would be trip mines around power weapons. You know what, fuck it. Lets make it no weapons except for PP. Not even any on the map. Now that would be a true test of skill, and no one will bitch about the weapons they can't deal with. Unless you have problems with PPs....

[Jam Cliché]

If you earn the Tank and then camp with your back to the wall with a clear line of sight in both directions, it's nearly impossible for a regular loadout group of players to take you out. Only way is to plasma pistol and turn you off so you can take the precious seconds to close the gap instead of it being an open field of hey lets just shell the heck of you.
Okay, I am not stopping you from doing this. Plasma Pistol will be in your base. If the enemy tank is backed into a corner, that means NOT being at your base. It should not be difficult acquiring it. The rest is on you. Also, sustained precision weapon fire will wreck vehicles.

[Al Capone111]

Everyone's voice has weight. In your case then, lets not listen to Jam because he's too new? So this idea is out now?

Everyone is considered.

As in people coming in here for a few weeks thinking they know how to fix everything and only their idea is right. Cause obviously someone who has been in FC for 5 years knows nothing about how to work a warsim

And if you and your team can't take a few seconds to team shot a tank or any vehicle, then your doing it wrong and need to rethink your strategy.

[KazuhLLL]

Has nothing to do with this.

I was simply pointing out the fallacies of your argument. The point was that you are saying the sample size is "too small" because majority has less than 50%, yet the popular vote of US presidents are often under 50% majority, with over 200+ million people in that poll.

[Jam Cliché]

No, no frags. That promotes grenade spamming. Lets make it where you only start with a PP, and the weapons literally cover the maps floor. However there would be trip mines around power weapons. You know what, fuck it. Lets make it no weapons except for PP. Not even any on the map. Now that would be a true test of skill, and no one will bitch about the weapons they can't deal with. Unless you have problems with PPs....
You imply that removing the Boltshot from starting loadouts is the beginning of the downhill slope to the point where we use flat maps and bare fisticuffs? If so, I don't even have to refute your logic to know you're wrong.

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I was simply pointing out the fallacies of your argument. The point was that you are saying the sample size is "too small" because majority has less than 50%, yet the popular vote of US presidents are often under 50% majority, with over 200+ million people in that poll.

Kaz, sample size does not refer to the percentage a vote gets. It refers to the amount of voters. Your statement still fits, in a way, in that picking sample size is a hotly debated and never surefire deal in statistical gathering, it's just not the conclusion you made.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

That is the thing. Players rely too much on the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol. When a team has got all the vehicles or has pushed you back to your base, they earned that. They outplayed and therefore gained an advantage that should not be so easily overcome. My goal with this idea is that more powerful outside equipment not be ruined by overpowered starting equipment, while also making that powerful outside equipment more rare and valuable to the game.

Yeah true test of skill, who can walk out side their base first. I mean come one has anyone here had to Fight over a Vehicle. Half the time they never Spawned. *cough* Mantis on Meltdown *cough*

[THExSPIDERMAN]

I was simply pointing out the fallacies of your argument. The point was that you are saying the sample size is "too small" because majority has less than 50%, yet the popular vote of US presidents are often under 50% majority, with over 200+ million people in that poll.

I was talking about the sample size of this whole poll.

[Anarchy]

Ok I'm ending half of this thread right now, since some of what is going on is valuable opinions for data, but the other half is just penis comparison.

We are voting based on our own preference. Whatever argument you may have for or against this, the boltshot, or ordinances is probably 100% correct. That means you, spider, jam, and everyone else talking a lot about whether the boltshot, ordinances, or anything discussed here is "good" or "bad", is right.

Truth is, the boltshot/ordinances are not "good" or "bad", it is how people perceive it. No one is convincing anyone here to think they way they are. So please, if you've posted 20+ times trying to argue for your point, stop.

This is a vote on preference. On what people find fun. As such, different things make different people feel happy in the pants when it comes to halo, so vote, and leave your peace unless you truly have valuable input for decision making.

This poll does not weigh the entire community, but it does give us a sample.

[KazuhLLL]

If you earn the Tank and then camp with your back to the wall with a clear line of sight in both directions, it's nearly impossible for a regular loadout group of players to take you out. Only way is to plasma pistol and turn you off so you can take the precious seconds to close the gap instead of it being an open field of hey lets just shell the heck of you. Or do continued passes with the Gauss/Banshee.

The Wheelman perk makes the Plasma Pistol effect last about a second anyway. So given if we were to shorten the amount of usable Plasma Pistols anyway by making it map specific, and the fact that weapons despawn too fast anyway, it gives vehicle users a huuge advantage, when they were buffed in the first place with the fact in mind that if you wanted to counter them, you should add plasma pistols to your loadout.

If you're a smart driver, it's hard enough for a plasma pistol to get at you anyway. Work with your Team to get enemies distracted first before making your passes. Play conservatively.

Okay, here's a proposed solution to that aspect: everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes?

[Al Capone111]

Yeah true test of skill, who can walk out side their base first. I mean come one has anyone here had to Fight over a Vehicle. Half the time they never Spawned. *cough* Mantis on Meltdown *cough*[/I]

Matchmaking on Excile it crazy in BTB. The Tank and Gausshog typically only last the first minute on average from what ive seen. And that is mostly due to team shotting with the DMR and frags/plasmas. Not so much PP or power weapons. But that is just my observation.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Okay, I am not stopping you from doing this. Plasma Pistol will be in your base. If the enemy tank is backed into a corner, that means NOT being at your base. It should not be difficult acquiring it. The rest is on you. Also, sustained precision weapon fire will wreck vehicles.

What I'm saying is, vehicles have been given a severe buff to where they are nigh overpowered without additional help. Using the right perks, you can go on rampages without being taken out, and that's even WITH a Team that has Plasma Pistols on spawn. Having to go grab one out of your base not only takes up precious time, but limits how many people can have one, not to mention how easy it is to be taken out and then have your team being stuck as their only means of EMPing a vehicle is killed. Meanwhile, the overpowered vehicles in the back continue to camp key points.

And good luck with a Mantis with Wheelman perk. Even with sustained fire. As long as he has a good Team backing him up, you won't get near him.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

You imply that removing the Boltshot from starting loadouts is the beginning of the downhill slope to the point where we use flat maps and bare fisticuffs? If so, I don't even have to refute your logic to know you're wrong.

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Kaz, sample size does not refer to the percentage a vote gets. It refers to the amount of voters. Your statement still fits, in a way, in that picking sample size is a hotly debated and never surefire deal in statistical gathering, it's just not the conclusion you made.

You're wrong. It went from Boltshot>DMR>Br. As any basic math class will tell you, the pattern will continue and eventually we won't be able to do anything but stare at our opponents and think angry thoughts.

[Jam Cliché]

[COLOR=#8E8E8E]

Yeah true test of skill, who can walk out side their base first. I mean come one has anyone here had to Fight over a Vehicle. Half the time they never Spawned. *cough* Mantis on Meltdown *cough*
Indeed, a race to an item of value IS a skill-battle. That is the whole point of map control, so you can maintain power over powerful items and gain more power, etc. etc. win. If two enemies get to one thing at the same time, bad shit goes down. Two guys fighting for rocket? Firefight, winner gets rockets. Two players go for tank? One guy gets in, other guy boards and grenades him, meaning no one gets it.

To gain control of neutral weapons and hold onto them takes skill and teamwork.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Matchmaking on Excile it crazy in BTB. The Tank and Gausshog typically only last the first minute on average from what ive seen. And that is mostly due to team shotting with the DMR and frags/plasmas. Not so much PP or power weapons. But that is just my observation.

Only way I die in a Tank is if I get EMP'd on Exile. Played for a good hour and a half tonight, ask MDM. :P Only way they can take me out is if they EMP me to take out my main gun.

[Al Capone111]

You're wrong. It went from Boltshot>DMR>Br. As any basic math class will tell you, the pattern will continue and eventually we won't be able to do anything but stare at our opponents and think angry thoughts.

https://my.psychologytoday.com/files/u798/favre%20queen.jpg

[Jam Cliché]

You're wrong. It went from Boltshot>DMR>Br. As any basic math class will tell you, the pattern will continue and eventually we won't be able to do anything but stare at our opponents and think angry thoughts.
Basic math class for what? How fast we switch from weekly battles to playing Prison Guard roleplay on crappy maps? I assure you, the math will be complicated indeed. You're argument is so fallible, I dare to say you have given up. Appealing to ridicule and drawing a conclusion from nothing?

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https://my.psychologytoday.com/files/u798/favre%20queen.jpg

Al, I ask that you tone it down.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Basic math class for what? How fast we switch from weekly battles to playing Prison Guard roleplay on crappy maps? I assure you, the math will be complicated indeed. You're argument is so fallible, I dare to say you have given up. Appealing to ridicule and drawing a conclusion from nothing?

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Al, I ask that you tone it down.

Did your math class not teach you patterns? And saying fallible and refute doesn't mean you win the argument. You would fit in with those kids on reddit who try so hard to seem smarter than they are. I mean this conversation is about a god damn video game.

[KazuhLLL]

Kaz, sample size does not refer to the percentage a vote gets. It refers to the amount of voters. Your statement still fits, in a way, in that picking sample size is a hotly debated and never surefire deal in statistical gathering, it's just not the conclusion you made.
Ah, so it would seem. I was trying to respond to his sample size thing and his issues on majority while also playing Halo and my thoughts got a bit crossed xD


Only way I die in a Tank is if I get EMP'd on Exile. Played for a good hour and a half tonight, ask MDM. :P Only way they can take me out is if they EMP me to take out my main gun.

Since apparently the "penis comparison" covered up my proposed solution to this current debate, I'll say it again: how about everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes?

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Mythonian if you are going to test this I would like to be there, I am on leave so it wont matter if I miss practice.

[McL00V]

IMO the boltshot is the dumbest weapon ever to be added to a Halo game. I hate it with a passion, but that doesn't mean I don't use it. And it certainly doesn't mean I'm not good with it. If you hate it and refuse to use it to counter other people with it...well then that's your loss I guess. Prome-Vision would probably save your life quite a few times from it. Or just realizing that everyone probably has one when they are around a corner. And really thats how it is in this game anyway. With ordnance you never know if someone has a shotty or some crazy weapon around the corner, so it's a good rule of thumb to not just rush in blindly anyway. So for the record: Fuck the boltshot, but it is a part of the game and i vote not to ban it. But my xbox is broken so who the hell cares what i think anyway :)

Edit: i guess this isn't to "ban" it. so i vote not to mess with it.

[Al Capone111]

Al, I ask that you tone it down.

You didn't say please. So no.
But for the sake of not being a smartass anymore, fine I will "tone it down". Though you truly haven't seen me at my best.

We go through this everytime we switch to a new game. Same shit happened in Reach. Does everyone remember Armorlock and how broken it was?

I have atleast offered some helpful insight on this thread. Not just pissing and moaning. We do need to fix the issues here. That much is obvious. But everyone sitting here complaining isn't solving shit. Test this. Tomorrow or this Sunday. Then get feedback. Is it really that hard to do?

[Jam Cliché]

Did your math class not teach you patterns?

Where is the pattern? Where are the multiple occurrences of reducing player freedom? Didn't know I could draw a line with only one point.


And saying fallible and refute doesn't mean you win the argument. You would fit in with those kids on reddit who try so hard to seem smarter than they are. I mean this conversation is about a god damn video game.

Argumentum ad hominem.

[Deaf]

Spiderman, I said drop it. It's not worth it to spend your time. Al, I find that insulting, I've been around for quite a bit longer than you seem to think. And Spiderman is one of my soldiers, so I'd appreciate it if you were nice to him instead of acting condescendingly towards him. For example, I was around when we easily beat your team on Deuterium and all of your team including Max whined how it must have been the lag. So excuse me for not having the highest opinion of you when my experiences have always been you either whining or insulting my team. I am also a higher rank than you within my army, and Verboten agrees with my stance, who has been around longer than you as well. And Jam, I do happen to like you since you've always been pleasant and polite. But you misunderstand the math here. Yes, your solution has the most votes. But you have to look at it from the whole perspective 60% of the poll has clearly stated they wanted to change all or part of your plan. I like the ordinance idea, but utterly despise the loadout one. If you don't realize how this gives you the minority, then please discuss it with Panic Phan. he's a math teacher and will explain it. Now, since this is going nowhere, would someone please lock this thread?

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Where is the pattern? Where are the multiple occurrences of reducing player freedom? Didn't know I could draw a line with only one point.



Argumentum ad hominem.

First they took the boltshots.
I didn't complain because I didn't use the boltshots.
Then they took the assualt rifles.
I didn't complain because I was a DMR guy.
(20 something weapons later)
Then they took the DMR, and there was no one left to complain for me.

"Argumentum ad hominem"
Yeah, I can't tell if you're joking because I brought up reddit or if you're really that sad. If it's the former carry on. If its not, chill out. This is a discussion on a game. Stop trying to make it so super serious.

Edit: guess I have to drop it.

[JonOU812]

You know, the reason why I left the last community i was in was because of drama. EVERYBODY JUST CALM THE FUCK DOWN, GROW SOME BALLS AND GET OVER IT. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT EXPLAIN WHY AND WE WILL TRY OUR BEST TO MAKE THINGS ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD FOR BOTH SIDES. IF YOU DON'T LIKE CHANGE THEN GTFO AND GO PLAY SOME SKYRIM OR SOMETHING

[Jam Cliché]

Spiderman, I said drop it. It's not worth it to spend your time. Al, I find that insulting, I've been around for quite a bit longer than you seem to think. And Spiderman is one of my soldiers, so I'd appreciate it if you were nice to him instead of acting condescendingly towards him. For example, I was around when we easily beat your team on Deuterium and all of your team including Max whined how it must have been the lag. So excuse me for not having the highest opinion of you when my experiences have always been you either whining or insulting my team. I am also a higher rank than you within my army, and Verboten agrees with my stance, who has been around longer than you as well. And Jam, I do happen to like you since you've always been pleasant and polite. But you misunderstand the math here. Yes, your solution has the most votes. But you have to look at it from the whole perspective 60% of the poll has clearly stated they wanted to change all or part of your plan. I like the ordinance idea, but utterly despise the loadout one. If you don't realize how this gives you the minority, then please discuss it with Panic Phan. he's a math teacher and will explain it. Now, since this is going nowhere, would someone please lock this thread?
You're expanding the categories to fit that conclusion. If only four people voted in that poll, and they all voted a different option, then all four options would have one vote. Evenly split. With your logic, you're still saying the first option loses 1-3. That doesn't work, because I could then say the fourth option also loses 1-3, because the first three options are people who want some kind of change, and for things not to stay the same. You can't skew the data to make your conclusion.

Let's say I combined the first two options to "like" options, and the second two into "dislike" options. See? Now "like" has the majority. That's why you DON'T do that. The first poll is the mathematical majority, because the number is higher than the other votes.

[GhostHammer]

Seeing as half of you ignored Anarchy, maybe my post will save you...

The next post that is partially or completely aggressive, passively attacking someone, or some other angry-rant type post that adds nothing new or constructive to the conversation, you will be given an infraction, or, if it's bad enough, a straight 48 hour.

All of you, grow the fuck up.

[Jam Cliché]

First they took the boltshots.
I didn't complain because I didn't use the boltshots.
Then they took the assualt rifles.
I didn't complain because I was a DMR guy.
(20 something weapons later)
Then they took the DMR, and there was no one left to complain for me.
Only one of those things has even been suggested to have happened. So there is no pattern.


"Argumentum ad hominem"
Yeah, I can't tell if you're joking because I brought up reddit or if you're really that sad. If it's the former carry on. If its not, chill out. This is a discussion on a game. Stop trying to make it so super serious.
Rather than entertain your attempt to dislodge the whole discussion, I dismissed it. Not that serious on my end, but you're the one who stooped to making it personal when you insulted me.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Seeing as half of you ignored Anarchy, maybe my post will save you...

The next post that is partially or completely aggressive, passively attacking someone, or some other angry-rant type post that adds nothing new or constructive to the conversation, you will be given an infraction, or, if it's bad enough, a straight 48 hour.

All of you, grow the fuck up.

Lol should have just locked the thread. Everyone's too scared to reply now.

[Deaf]

Ghost, I'd prefer you just to lock the whole thread. It has devolved past constructive remarks and become nothing but verbal abuse.

And Jam, you're absolutely right. The majority of the people seem to want some form of change, it is just disagreed about what. At the same time, most people don't want your suggestion. That shows we do need some change, but that yours isn't what is needed.

My personal idea would be for us to go to halo 3 rules and test it out. Have BRs, carbines, DMRs and light rifles spawn on the map. We'd all start our loadouts with assault rifles and magnums. You change those in player traits. We then allow our players to select their own armor abilities and perks. That would give some variation, even the field for skill, and should please most people. I do like your ordinance idea, even though I'd prefer to have none. I think that could make this game great and get rid of these starting OP weapons.

[Silent Arbiter1]

haha this is the new boltshot thread, wait until metkil finds it!

[Al Capone111]

Spiderman, I said drop it. It's not worth it to spend your time. Al, I find that insulting, I've been around for quite a bit longer than you seem to think. And Spiderman is one of my soldiers, so I'd appreciate it if you were nice to him instead of acting condescendingly towards him. For example, I was around when we easily beat your team on Deuterium and all of your team including Max whined how it must have been the lag. So excuse me for not having the highest opinion of you when my experiences have always been you either whining or insulting my team. I am also a higher rank than you within my army, and Verboten agrees with my stance, who has been around longer than you as well. And Jam, I do happen to like you since you've always been pleasant and polite. But you misunderstand the math here. Yes, your solution has the most votes. But you have to look at it from the whole perspective 60% of the poll has clearly stated they wanted to change all or part of your plan. I like the ordinance idea, but utterly despise the loadout one. If you don't realize how this gives you the minority, then please discuss it with Panic Phan. he's a math teacher and will explain it. Now, since this is going nowhere, would someone please lock this thread?

When I see a Warthog that your team is in literally go backwards from one end of the base to the other in an instant then start moving forward like it never stopped. That is called LAG. When I am assassinating someone (literally mid assassination animation) and they get out of it and BS me, that is called LAG. Is that clear enough on the subject for you?

As for Spiderman, he is being a drama queen. He has not put in one ounce of help on the topic. All he has done is complain and make it seem like the war will be turned into some bastardized version of 1984. If he were to actually propose a helpful alternative to the current compromise, the whole community would gladly love to read it.

And Donkey is the one who recruited me five years ago. Though I have been playing with him since 2005 in Halo 2.

[GhostHammer]

It hasn't gone far enough yet, there still may be mature people with a well structured opinion to voice.

[Jam Cliché]

Ghost, I'd prefer you just to lock the whole thread. It has devolved past constructive remarks and become nothing but verbal abuse.
I don't think it has. Some people add in junk, but I don't mind that Spiderman is cocky and he doesn't mind that I am persistent. And it's mostly us here.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Plus if it gets locked it Closes the Poll right? Any one here want to help me test to see it I can lower the amount of Radical Ordinance by changing map settings, as an Alternative too completely nerfing Ordinance.

Because as things are now, most of what is left can all be Killed with a Magnum fairly fast which will be the Weapon that we Have to spawn with. I will be Ironic if we trade the OP Boltsholt for the OP Magnum.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Some of you have already been warned
Remember keep it civil or else

[THExSPIDERMAN]

When I see a Warthog that your team is in literally go backwards from one end of the base to the other in an instant then start moving forward like it never stopped. That is called LAG. When I am assassinating someone (literally mid assassination animation) and they get out of it and BS me, that is called LAG. Is that clear enough on the subject for you?

As for Spiderman, he is being a drama queen. He has not put in one ounce of help on the topic. All he has done is complain and make it seem like the war will be turned into some bastardized version of 1984. If he were to actually propose a helpful alternative to the current compromise, the whole community would gladly love to read it.

And Donkey is the one who recruited me five years ago. Though I have been playing with him since 2005 in Halo 2.

You can't call someone a drama queen when you posted pictures instead of arguments.

Edit- plus it hurt my feelings

[KazuhLLL]

It hasn't gone far enough yet, there still may be mature people with a well structured opinion to voice.

I'm trying, but everybody's been dicking around. Okay, third time's the charm, if nobody at all responds to this then fuck it let whatever happens, happen.

I propose that as a partial solution to the issues with lack of plasma pistols, that everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes. Discuss?

[H2O Yordle]

You're spamming other peoples whats new feed. If you want to argue take it to pm's.

[GhostHammer]

Plus if it gets locked it Closes the Poll right? Any one here want to help me test to see it I can lower the amount of Radical Ordinance by changing map settings, as an Alternative too completely nerfing Ordinance.

Because as things are now, most of what is left can all be Killed with a Magnum fairly fast which will be the Weapon that we Have to spawn with. I will be Ironic if we trade the OP Boltsholt for the OP Magnum.

Correct. This is an issue the WC is working very hard to make agreeable to all sides, thus I won't allow a few posts in poor taste close an very important thread and poll.

Edit: 3 Infractions handed out since the warning. Those of you who've received, be aware a second is an automatic 48 hour.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

I'm trying, but everybody's been dicking around. Okay, third time's the charm, if nobody at all responds to this then fuck it let whatever happens, happen.

I propose that as a partial solution to the issues with lack of plasma pistols, that everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes. Discuss?

the only downside to that is you lose a Long range weapon it you Spawn with an AR like I would to balance my self out, However it might have to be done that way.

[Silent Arbiter1]

I would just lock it to be safe before anyone gets in serious trouble(I avoid these threads now, when I dont I laugh at how stupid u all really sound, I mean your arguing over a video game!)

[VerbotenDonkey]

I propose that as a partial solution to the issues with lack of plasma pistols, that everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes. Discuss?

Sorry, I saw this and was doing my reading and then forgot to respond to it! xD

I would be willing to test it out. That sounds like a fair compromise to a compromise. xD I think EMP may be spammed more than usual but I would be willing to try it.

[Silent Arbiter1]

did this kind of thing happen during the transfer to reach? probably about armor lock and the overpowered plasma pistol

[GhostHammer]

I would just lock it to be safe before anyone gets in serious trouble(I avoid these threads now, when I dont I laugh at how stupid u all really sound, I mean your arguing over a video game!)

Thread will not be locked as stated, it's too important of an issue that effects the community. I'm tired of this "Lock the thread" crap to stop people from posting and getting in trouble. Not our job to control peoples actions, it's our job to punish those who break the rules.

[Deaf]

When I see a Warthog that your team is in literally go backwards from one end of the base to the other in an instant then start moving forward like it never stopped. That is called LAG. When I am assassinating someone (literally mid assassination animation) and they get out of it and BS me, that is called LAG. Is that clear enough on the subject for you?

As for Spiderman, he is being a drama queen. He has not put in one ounce of help on the topic. All he has done is complain and make it seem like the war will be turned into some bastardized version of 1984. If he were to actually propose a helpful alternative to the current compromise, the whole community would gladly love to read it.

And Donkey is the one who recruited me five years ago. Though I have been playing with him since 2005 in Halo 2.

If Donkey recruited you, then I find it odd you insulted his own team along with your buddies. Lag effects everyone Al. Not just your team. Ask any of the REDD's, I have yet to play a single game on here where I didn't go black screen at least once. But I adjust to the lag and keep playing. That was why I still went 44-10 sniping on you guys with a rampage. Just accept that you played a game against a good team and you lost. It happens. It's what makes this place fun. Lag had nothing to do with it. Again, if you doubt me, SS is always open for some scrims.

Again, do not insult my guys. He has stated that he's happy the way things are right now. He doesn't have to come up with a new idea if he feels that way. I personally want to remove ordinances and go to a Halo 3 way of playing to even the field completely.

[H2O Yordle]

did this kind of thing happen during the transfer to reach? probably about armor lock and the overpowered plasma pistol

I dont think it was to this scale.

[Silent Arbiter1]

Thread will not be locked as stated, it's too important of an issue that effects the community. I'm tired of this "Lock the thread" crap to stop people from posting and getting in trouble. Not our job to control peoples actions, it's our job to punish those who break the rules.

true

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

Oh wow I forgot Kaz the worse part is it would probably make Vehicles useless even if they have Wheelman. It would only take 2 to ruin your day. Wheelman makes them to have to continue shooting you but if there is another then it has little effect. There would be atleast 6 people with them on one side, plus there are the accidentle EMPs to teammates.

It would be like a Lazer Show though, we cna Rave while we listen to the FC radio.

[Silent Arbiter1]

If Donkey recruited you, then I find it odd you insulted his own team along with your buddies. Lag effects everyone Al. Not just your team. Ask any of the REDD's, I have yet to play a single game on here where I didn't go black screen at least once. But I adjust to the lag and keep playing. That was why I still went 44-10 sniping on you guys with a rampage. Just accept that you played a game against a good team and you lost. It happens. It's what makes this place fun. Lag had nothing to do with it. Again, if you doubt me, SS is always open for some scrims.

Again, do not insult my guys. He has stated that he's happy the way things are right now. He doesn't have to come up with a new idea if he feels that way. I personally want to remove ordinances and go to a Halo 3 way of playing to even the field completely.

take it to the damn pms!

[Al Capone111]

Plus if it gets locked it Closes the Poll right? Any one here want to help me test to see it I can lower the amount of Radical Ordinance by changing map settings, as an Alternative too completely nerfing Ordinance.

Because as things are now, most of what is left can all be Killed with a Magnum fairly fast which will be the Weapon that we Have to spawn with. I will be Ironic if we trade the OP Boltsholt for the OP Magnum.

It wouldn't close the polls. Atleast I don't think it does.

If everyone spawns with the pistol, then EVERYONE is on even footing at the start of the game as far a secondary weapons go. And most people use the primary weapon anyways. (Hence it being called PRIMARY)

But put two BS's and two PP's in each armies base at 30sec respawn time. Then put one of each at a map neutral location. You know, behind a rock or something. Plus it being in OD means they will still be on the map almost all the time. The OD would just be for the sake of convenience. "Oh my BS/PP is out of ammo. Look a BS/PP is in my OD, I better call it in." Profit.

Now if only 343i would fix the OD issues. This past week I was on the first floor and call one in two feet in front of me, it spawned on the floor above me and about 15 feet to my right. 343i fail.


PS. Donkey was a BLUE at the time. I recruited Jug, he started BLUE. I was REDD awhile ago.

[H2O Yordle]

Lag effects everyone Al.

Thats not true. Ive been in plenty of games where lag has only effected me. If your statment was true then the lagswitch would be pointless.

[GhostHammer]

I dont think it was to this scale.

You are correct. As AL was not an issue for load-outs as we used custom ones, and was easy to ensure it wasn't placed on custom maps, it was a simple fix solution.

The problem presented in Halo 4 is how complex the new features are and how closely balanced weapons are for the most part. It's hard to make things work super well when things are removed/adjusted in heavy ways, which is why I personally have always been for default everything, as 343 has much more money and time to perfect things than we do.

[Ex Zen Mute]

If only Halo didn't change from a good starting AR and a good starting pistol with some better choices around the map.

[Silent Arbiter1]

You are correct. As AL was not an issue for load-outs as we used custom ones, and was easy to ensure it wasn't placed on custom maps, it was a simple fix solution.

The problem presented in Halo 4 is how complex the new features are and how closely balanced weapons are for the most part. It's hard to make things work super well when things are removed/adjusted in heavy ways, which is why I personally have always been for default everything, as 343 has much more money and time to perfect things than we do.

also true

- - - Updated - - -

I would like to believe its called COMPROMISE for a reason(look at the thread title)

[Deaf]

But put two BS's and two PP's in each armies base at 30sec respawn time. Then put one of each at a map neutral location. You know, behind a rock or something. Plus it being in OD means they will still be on the map almost all the time. The OD would just be for the sake of convenience. "Oh my BS/PP is out of ammo. Look a BS/PP is in my OD, I better call it in." Profit.


I actually like this idea better. I'd still prefer we start assault rifle, magnum like the good ole days, that way not everyone has the long range precision of a sniper to spawn with. But have two of each spawning often would be better. And as I said, I like the ordinance drop idea.

[Al Capone111]

You are correct. As AL was not an issue for load-outs as we used custom ones, and was easy to ensure it wasn't placed on custom maps, it was a simple fix solution.



I was simply stating that is was grossly overused and often abused. I used it, on vehicle heavy maps. When a Ghost, Mongoose, Hog, or Rev was barreling toward me with the intent to splatter me.

[H2O Yordle]

Back to Spidermans point of alienating. I hate the AR with a burning passion. So if I want to be that asshole, that I know I want to be. I dont wanna be stuck with an AR. Im fine with the idea of preset loadouts.

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

I agree with GhostHammer I dont use the Boltsholt and find it annoying since I am a Person that likes to Rush, but I am afraid of it being taken out because it leaves a Hole in the system.

And Kaz's Idea would work but we would probably have to get rid on Sticky Grenades out of loadouts since Vehicles would be EMPed so much.

The Biggest thing I worry about,(other than losing my Secondary/BR) Is when the Spawns fail and we spawn in those weird places and maybe far away from a PP.

P.S. The Magnum is Really OP, as it does tones of damage to Vehicles, and at Times I have used it to kill Boltshot users before. And Ironically Going with this System takes away My Firepower Class which I use to counter the Boltshot. So I lose my ability to Counter and they Keep their Boltshot yaaaaaaaaaaaay. lol

[PanicPhan]

My discussion was never about the loadouts. was never about the boltshot, or the DMR, or any other gun in the game. It is about the personal ordinance drop. We want it gone.

[Deaf]

What about MLG rules then? Level playing field? BR, which is pretty good but doesn't have the range of a DMR? No Boltshot? Seems like win win to me.

And Sang is right. He can butcher people with that pistol of his faster than anyone can use the boltshot.

[Silent Arbiter1]

well I dont :P

[Al Capone111]

AR is only good close to mid range. So maybe two AR classes (one with 2 frags and one with 2 plasmas) and two DMR or BR classes (with only one frag and one with one plasma)? Other stuff would be decided later. Cause the vehicles did get buffed to shit. So being able to start with something that atleast keeps vehicle drivers on their toes would be a good idea.

If classes have DMR make sure each base has one or two BR's and vice versa

[Mythonian]

Thanks, Ghost, it seems you turned it from pointless banter and semi-rage to actually worthwhile posts. :)

Everyone, whether you support the proposal or dislike it, try to be there tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST. Everyone who shows up with have a much more direct impact than forum arguments.

[Jam Cliché]

P.S. The Magnum is Really OP, as it does tones of damage to Vehicles, and at Times I have used it to kill Boltshot users before. And Ironically Going with this System takes away My Firepower Class which I use to counter the Boltshot. So I lose my ability to Counter and they Keep their Boltshot yaaaaaaaaaaaay. lol
But you must agree that Magnum is not as savage against vehicles as the plasma pistol, and furthermore, your second point is wrong. "They" don't get to keep "their" Boltshot any more than you get to keep your second primary - you both have to trade your magnum for something else if you feel the need to do so.

[Silent Arbiter1]

Thanks, Ghost, it seems you turned it from pointless banter and semi-rage to actually worthwhile posts. :)

Everyone, whether you support the proposal or dislike it, try to be there tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST. Everyone who shows up with have a much more direct impact than forum arguments.

hows your weather myth?

- - - Updated - - -

cuz mine is really shitty

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

I am sorry if I come off aggressive, I am actually not but I still come off that way, its the Curse of being hated.

Myth I'll warn you now that Redwatch has a Practice near then, But I'll come atleast since I am on leave. lol

[Jam Cliché]

My discussion was never about the loadouts. was never about the boltshot, or the DMR, or any other gun in the game. It is about the personal ordinance drop. We want it gone.
Who is "we"? There are many opinions here, and they all matter. I am sorry that you are not pleased with the fact that Ordnance drop still exists. I suggested toning it down - it's the best I can do for compromise, and one of the things in mind in this whole suggestion is the topic you started. We wanted to include how you felt. We cannot do away with something just because you want it gone, but everyone who works on the FC games has fairness in mind.

[Al Capone111]

And LAG doesn't affect everyone, nor does it affect everyone the same way. But that is another discussion for another day.

Either way, whatever happens some people are going to be mad. But we need to all find a common ground. So everyone just show up tomorrow and test a few different ways to do this. Provide some actual feedback as opposed to just saying you hate it.

That sound fair enough?

[Silent Arbiter1]

Who is "we"? There are many opinions here, and they all matter. I am sorry that you are not pleased with the fact that Ordnance drop still exists. I suggested toning it down - it's the best I can do for compromise, and one of the things in mind in this whole suggestion is the topic you started. We wanted to include how you felt. We cannot do away with something just because you want it gone, but everyone who works on the FC games has fairness in mind.

hows ur weather cliche?

[Lil Nawty Lucia]

But you must agree that Magnum is not as savage against vehicles as the plasma pistol, and furthermore, your second point is wrong. "They" don't get to keep "their" Boltshot any more than you get to keep your second primary - you both have to trade your magnum for something else if you feel the need to do so.

I get your point except for the Fact Someone has to Die with a BR before I can pick it up, unlike the Boltshot. On top of the Fact that having Ammo wont effect the BR while it does effect the BoltShot

Lol has any one else noticed that the initials of BoltShot is BS. I found that interesting considering the Popular opinion of it and that probably what most people say after they are kill with it.

[GhostHammer]

Jam just touched on it, and I'll try and highlight it again.

There will be NO perfect answer. None, zero, zilch, not happening. It's just not possible. What will have to happen is that both sides will have to compromise. It's like when you were a younger teenager (Or for those who still are) and you had to negotiate staying out later on a Friday night. You'd want 12, the parents would want 10, so you'd settle on 11 as a compromise.

It's going to have to be the same thing here for sure. They say the best deals are those where both parties are unhappy.

Arbiter I appreciate trying to inject humor into the situation, but stay on topic.

[Al Capone111]

I am sorry if I come off aggressive, I am actually not but I still come off that way, its the Curse of being hated.

Myth I'll warn you now that Redwatch has a Practice near then, But I'll come atleast since I am on leave. lol

Practice on those gametypes. Cause the next battle night might be with them. Better to just be ahead of the curve....

Oh shit, I just aided the enemy. Ignore everything I just said.

[Lol its James]

#BlameMetkil

The bolt shot is an awesome weapon, a little to awesome...
It's like the Hornet of halo 3

[Jam Cliché]

Jam just touched on it, and I'll try and highlight it again.

There will be NO perfect answer. None, zero, zilch, not happening. It's just not possible. What will have to happen is that both sides will have to compromise. It's like when you were a younger teenager (Or for those who still are) and you had to negotiate staying out later on a Friday night. You'd want 12, the parents would want 10, so you'd settle on 11 as a compromise.

It's going to have to be the same thing here for sure. They say the best deals are those where both parties are unhappy.

Arbiter I appreciate trying to inject humor into the situation, but stay on topic.
While that is true, and I believe you may have seen my original WC submission about it with pros and cons, there are still opinions I have not anticipated. Firepower users, for instance, and those who feel it would jumble the whole thing. (I did however anticipate the opinion that it would be a "slippery slope" down to extreme limitations).

[Silent Arbiter1]

Jam just touched on it, and I'll try and highlight it again.

There will be NO perfect answer. None, zero, zilch, not happening. It's just not possible. What will have to happen is that both sides will have to compromise. It's like when you were a younger teenager (Or for those who still are) and you had to negotiate staying out later on a Friday night. You'd want 12, the parents would want 10, so you'd settle on 11 as a compromise.

It's going to have to be the same thing here for sure. They say the best deals are those where both parties are unhappy.

Arbiter I appreciate trying to inject humor into the situation, but stay on topic.

:P, ok, but me, myth, and cliche all live in Georgia and there is a huge ass storm outside!

[Mythonian]

By the way everyone, I think most of you are missing the point.

FC's priority is not a "fair playing field." It is not to make it so that skill is the only way to win games.

The priority is something called "fun." What is "fun" for the members of FC? Well, a fair playing field is "fun", and for many people having less randomness involved makes it more "fun." etc.

In Reach, we did not remove Armor Lock because it was "overpowered." I could argue with anyone saying that it wasn't imbalanced in any way, shape, or form, but that is irrelevant. We removed it because the majority of people did not enjoy playing with it.

That is the same now. The community is split. Many people dislike the boltshot, others like it. Many dislike Ordnance, others like it. We will not cater to the minority, and usually not even for the plurality, in a situation. The only way you guys will ever get 100% of your desire is if you have an overwhelming majority backing you up, which no group has at this time.

Therefore, this compromise was developed and presented.


hows your weather myth?

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cuz mine is really shitty

Beautiful. Nice and dark, stormy, and humid.


I am sorry if I come off aggressive, I am actually not but I still come off that way, its the Curse of being hated.

Myth I'll warn you now that Redwatch has a Practice near then, But I'll come atleast since I am on leave. lol

That's actually a good thing. I can put the test gametypes on my fileshare and have you guys test them out as well, meaning we'd have 2 lobbies doing it, meaning more feedback. :)

[HighLight]

As much as I'd like to see the bolt shot and ordinances removed, I'm okay with them staying.

[PanicPhan]

"We" are the people who vote in our polls. the 25 so far, and the bunch who have not voted against the 14 in the "compromise" poll. I believe we have a solid enough voice, and there are far more than those who have voted who have been to our meetings and not been on the forum. I will try to get them on the forum and show them where to voice their opinions so that maybe you will realize our feelings. By the way, I am not discussion the boltshot, or the DMR, or the AR, or any other gun or any loadout in the game. The only thing I am discussing, is the personal ordinance drop. And thank you for considering my opinion.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

I'm fine with the boltshot being taken out now. I'm thinking of rolling with camo and becoming a pistol assassin. No one will no where I am until it's too late.

[Silent Arbiter1]

:P mine too! what a coincidence

[VerbotenDonkey]

That's actually a good thing. I can put the test gametypes on my fileshare and have you guys test them out as well, meaning we'd have 2 lobbies doing it, meaning more feedback. :)

Isn't that what we usually do? :P

[Silent Arbiter1]

I'm fine with the boltshot being taken out now. I'm thinking of rolling with camo and becoming a pistol assassin. No one will no where I am until it's too late.

hey! thats my job! :P

[Fateless Wolf]

"We" are the people who vote in our polls. the 25 so far, and the bunch who have not voted with the 14 in the "compromise" poll. I believe we have a solid enough voice, and there are far more than those who have voted who have been to our meetings and not been on the forum. I will try to get them on the forum and show them where to voice their opinions so that maybe you will realize our feelings. By the way, I am not discussion the boltshot, or the DMR, or the AR, or any other gun or any loadout in the game. The only thing I am discussing, is the personal ordinance drop. And thank you for considering my opinion. amen to that 100 percent in trust of this post

[HighLight]

I'm fine with the boltshot being taken out now. I'm thinking of rolling with camo and becoming a pistol assassin. No one will no where I am until it's too late.

Nah, the little dots on the radar will give you away. ;)

Sniper assassin on the other hand..

[Silent Arbiter1]

me and donkey love this: :P

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Nah, the little dots on the radar will give you away. ;)

Sniper assassin on the other hand..

It will really fuck with people in the middle of all the chaos though.

[Silent Arbiter1]

I can see inviso people so easily I dont know about u all but its so funny to see their reaction when they get stuck!

[THExSPIDERMAN]

I can see inviso people so easily I dont know about u all but its so funny to see their reaction when they get stuck!

I can see non invisible people even easier.
:-)

[Fateless Wolf]

stay on topic -.- stayyy on topic ......

[Jam Cliché]

I'm fine with the boltshot being taken out now. I'm thinking of rolling with camo and becoming a pistol assassin. No one will no where I am until it's too late.

I shiver at the thought. I want to have a Flag and Flagnum as a loadout weapon. Just my own flag to carry around and a pistol to show folks who's the boss.

Just remember, the Boltshot isn't gone. It's gonna be on maps!

[THExSPIDERMAN]

I shiver at the thought. I want to have a Flag and Flagnum as a loadout weapon. Just my own flag to carry around and a pistol to show folks who's the boss.

Just remember, the Boltshot isn't gone. It's gonna be on maps!

Even better! Camo with the boltshot! :-)

[Silent Arbiter1]

I can see non invisible people even easier.
:-)

I know I should stay on topic but just this last post, Its funny because they ''think'' I cant see them when I plainly know they are there, so I usually toy with them by walking around in front of them to see what they do, and then I stick them or kill them in some other embarrassing way

[Fateless Wolf]

yes we really do if ur gonna talk about that move it somewhere else this is a pretty important debate I mean not to be hostile but im very annoyed with the way people have viewd things all day.....

[GhostHammer]

Stay on topic guys.

[Silent Arbiter1]

ok, sorry

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sirs

[zaradomerix]

I don't like this so-called "comprimise". It really doesn't solve anything? One group doesn't want ordinance. a seperate group does. a third group wants boltshot gone. and a forth wants to keep boltshot... but somehow by keeping the boltshot on the map it solves both problems? This is a solution to neither problem. They can't be mashed together. they are two seperate problems needing two seperate solutions. Sounds to me like someone just got tired of arguing and made this solution up to try to shut people up when clearly more effort is needed.

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I think this thread is pointless and needs to be delted. We have one thread for the ordinance argument. Why not have another for boltshot. instead of one for ordinance and one for ordinance/boltshot. doesn't make much sense to me.

[Jam Cliché]

I don't like this so-called "comprimise". It really doesn't solve anything? One group doesn't want ordinance. a seperate group does. a third group wants boltshot gone. and a forth wants to keep boltshot... but somehow by keeping the boltshot on the map it solves both problems? This is a solution to neither problem. They can't be mashed together. they are two seperate problems needing two seperate solutions. Sounds to me like someone just got tired of arguing and made this solution up to try to shut people up when clearly more effort is needed.

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I think this thread is pointless and needs to be delted. We have one thread for the ordinance argument. Why not have another for boltshot. instead of one for ordinance and one for ordinance/boltshot. doesn't make much sense to me.

We had both. This is a thread discussing a fix. The Boltshot revision is a compromise, and that is part 1. But we also said, on top of moving where the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol can be found, that we would be revising the Ordnance to be less oppressive by moving more powerful weapons to map Ordnance. That is part 1. The methods happen to coincide in one area - the fact that the secondary weapons would be on both the map and drop Ordnances, but it is not a one-all solution to both with one simple fix. It is complex, and understandably in need of much tweaking to finalize. It was not formed in a day.

[J05hu498]

I think its balanced, I just really hate the plasma pistol. Ruins the balance on maps with vehicles.

[zaradomerix]

I think its balanced, I just really hate the plasma pistol. Ruins the balance on maps with vehicles.

The boltshot does the same for infantry. I personally have no problem with either. If they are boltshotting stick them. or maybe don't run in blindly. use promethian vision or a hologram to draw them out. or jetpack above them. or thruster pack past them before they can shoot. there are many solutions. and as for the plasma pistol, how else are you suposed to destroy vehicles? they are moving 100 miles per hour. if the rockets are gone you are doomed to be trolled by fast-moving vehicles until rockets respawn or until you get the fortune of sticking the vehicle.

[Jam Cliché]

The boltshot does the same for infantry. I personally have no problem with either. If they are boltshotting stick them. or maybe don't run in blindly. use promethian vision or a hologram to draw them out. or jetpack above them. or thruster pack past them before they can shoot. there are many solutions. and as for the plasma pistol, how else are you suposed to destroy vehicles? they are moving 100 miles per hour. if the rockets are gone you are doomed to be trolled by fast-moving vehicles until rockets respawn or until you get the fortune of sticking the vehicle.

But the players who got those vehicles earned them. They are on the map. Free to anyone who can get to them and avoid getting killed in the acquisition and subsequent operation. Plasma Pistols, on the other hand, are devastating to vehicles, and everyone can have them.

[zaradomerix]

But the players who got those vehicles earned them. They are on the map. Free to anyone who can get to them and avoid getting killed in the acquisition and subsequent operation. Plasma Pistols, on the other hand, are devastating to vehicles, and everyone can have them.

well i supose when you put it like that... "plasma pistols are devestating to vehicles"... so lets get rid of them. Oh! and while we're at it, i hear rockets and snipers are devestating to poeple! we better get rid of those two. oh and lets not forget how bad grenades hurt your vehicles, better lose those too. I GOT IT! Lets just walk around and shake hands with eachother... unless thats devestating to gloves somehow.

[Harry]

As long as there are boltshots on the map I can suffice.

:D~

[Jam Cliché]

well i supose when you put it like that... "plasma pistols are devestating to vehicles"... so lets get rid of them. Oh! and while we're at it, i hear rockets and snipers are devestating to poeple! we better get rid of those two. oh and lets not forget how bad grenades hurt your vehicles, better lose those too. I GOT IT! Lets just walk around and shake hands with eachother... unless thats devestating to gloves somehow.
You forgot the second half of my statement. Plasma Pistols are devastating to vehicles, and everyone gets one. So the items that have to be earned are topped by items that you start with. Rockets and Snipers have to be earned, too, so I have no problem with them being effective. It's kind of the point. And why does everyone think we're getting rid of them? They're going to be placed on the map! People are too selfish in Halo 4, I guess. If it isn't in your hands to start with, Call of Duty style, then it may as well not exist? Please look at this revision for what it is, nothing more.

You don't have to be snide.

[zaradomerix]

well you don't like me having a plasma pistol. then the boltshot is bad. i know people that don't like the carbine. or the light rifle. why don't we all just start with no weapons and run around staring at eachother till we find one randomly on the map. you can't remove any item from people's classes because if you remove one someone will want something else removed to be fair. you can't remove any gun completely from the game because someone will want its counter gun removed. guns should be map specific!!!!! long range map=long range guns and short range maps=short range guns. if there are vehicles on the map put rockets on the map, if there are no vehicles the plasma pistol isnt a problem, if there are... well im no genius, but dead people cant shoot guns. maybe try shooting at the person before they shoot you? that might solve your plasma pistol dilema, and if not, maybe you don't have enough skill to be in that vehicle in the first place. you can't be plasma pistolled from across the map unless you are sitting still, in which case it is your fault. if you are being plasma pistolled they must be within close range, shooting them before they get to you isn't that hard. especially since i have to take 10 seconds to switch to and charge my plasma pistol.

[VerbotenDonkey]

well you don't like me having a plasma pistol. then the boltshot is bad. i know people that don't like the carbine. or the light rifle. why don't we all just start with no weapons and run around staring at eachother till we find one randomly on the map. you can't remove any item from people's classes because if you remove one someone will want something else removed to be fair. you can't remove any gun completely from the game because someone will want its counter gun removed. guns should be map specific!!!!! long range map=long range guns and short range maps=short range guns. if there are vehicles on the map put rockets on the map, if there are no vehicles the plasma pistol isnt a problem, if there are... well im no genius, but dead people cant shoot guns. maybe try shooting at the person before they shoot you? that might solve your plasma pistol dilema, and if not, maybe you don't have enough skill to be in that vehicle in the first place. you can't be plasma pistolled from across the map unless you are sitting still, in which case it is your fault. if you are being plasma pistolled they must be within close range, shooting them before they get to you isn't that hard. especially since i have to take 10 seconds to switch to and charge my plasma pistol.

Yes, there will be one or two who find a weapon displeasing, however we are dealing with the major majority who dislike something before making a change. And if a major majority dislike a weapon, then we will make amends to make it more enjoyable to them. Just because one gun is removed and someone complains that they dislike another gun so it should be removed as well, unless they have a major majority backing, nothing would be done.

[zaradomerix]

My point is: Guns cannot be changed! maybe some guns shouldn't be allowed on certain maps, but everyone has a favorite gun, and every gun is someone's favorite. no one will want their gun removed from the map and therefore, this boltshot/plasma pistol argument shuld have been dead before it started.

Moving on to the ordinances, i don't see why people are fighting so hard to keep them? halo has been around for more than ten years and ordinances have never been there before. therefore, no one complained about them. Why is it such a problem to do without them completely? if you are skilled you will win with or without them. If you are going to lose without ordinances, then you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.

And anyone who thinks map ordinance is a solution over personal hasn't though it through much. personal is unfair because it makes the map non-symetrical. It skews the power each team has on a certain portion of the map. Whereas map ordinances spawn randomly. It does not improve on the personal ordinances because they spawn anywhere they feel like! 5 rockets may spawn on one side, and a magnum on the other. or nothing at all on one side and all guns on the other. Computers don't understand fair, they just randomly drop guns whenever the timer hits zero. those of us who do not want personal ordinance do not want ANY ordinance! we aren't arguing no personal ordinance. we are arguing NO ORDINANCE!

[Jam Cliché]

well you don't like me having a plasma pistol. then the boltshot is bad. i know people that don't like the carbine. or the light rifle.
The Light Rifle and Carbine do not each have 10+ pages of debate on them. This compromise is in response to the very real issue of Ordnance Drops and Boltshot.


why don't we all just start with no weapons and run around staring at eachother till we find one randomly on the map. you can't remove any item from people's classes because if you remove one someone will want something else removed to be fair. you can't remove any gun completely from the game because someone will want its counter gun removed.
There people go again, talking like this is going to be a pattern. It is only one revision. You cannot suggest a pattern by citing one event.


guns should be map specific!!!!! long range map=long range guns and short range maps=short range guns. if there are vehicles on the map put rockets on the map, if there are no vehicles the plasma pistol isnt a problem, if there are... well im no genius, but dead people cant shoot guns. maybe try shooting at the person before they shoot you? that might solve your plasma pistol dilema, and if not, maybe you don't have enough skill to be in that vehicle in the first place. you can't be plasma pistolled from across the map unless you are sitting still, in which case it is your fault. if you are being plasma pistolled they must be within close range, shooting them before they get to you isn't that hard. especially since i have to take 10 seconds to switch to and charge my plasma pistol.
You fail to see the point. I have to actively counter everyone else on the enemy team at one time if they all have Plasma Pistols. If I earned my vehicle by going to get it, why should I be worse off than the guy with the Plasma Pistol who can stop me? Sure, I can kill him, but he comes back with another one. If I get into a vehicle I am suddenly on the defensive. That isn't how it is supposed to work. When you move the Plasma Pistol to the map spawn, that means the guy that wants to use it has to earn it, and when I kill him for trying to use it against, he doesn't get a free one when he spawns.

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My point is: Guns cannot be changed! maybe some guns shouldn't be allowed on certain maps, but everyone has a favorite gun, and every gun is someone's favorite. no one will want their gun removed from the map and therefore, this boltshot/plasma pistol argument shuld have been dead before it started.
They aren't being removed! They're being moved! It's a difference!


Moving on to the ordinances, i don't see why people are fighting so hard to keep them? halo has been around for more than ten years and ordinances have never been there before. therefore, no one complained about them. Why is it such a problem to do without them completely? if you are skilled you will win with or without them. If you are going to lose without ordinances, then you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.
I can make the same argument for people who can't win AGAINST Ordnance. Everyone has an equal chance of getting them. They are earned.


And anyone who thinks map ordinance is a solution over personal hasn't though it through much. personal is unfair because it makes the map non-symetrical. It skews the power each team has on a certain portion of the map. Whereas map ordinances spawn randomly. It does not improve on the personal ordinances because they spawn anywhere they feel like! 5 rockets may spawn on one side, and a magnum on the other. or nothing at all on one side and all guns on the other. Computers don't understand fair, they just randomly drop guns whenever the timer hits zero. those of us who do not want personal ordinance do not want ANY ordinance! we aren't arguing no personal ordinance. we are arguing NO ORDINANCE!
Woah woah woah. Where did you get the idea that FC's map Ordnances are random? Our are not. They are set on the map just like normal old Halo. Random Ordnance is for matchmaking, none of that here. You need to know that before you go any further with this.

[zaradomerix]

Yes, there will be one or two who find a weapon displeasing, however we are dealing with the major majority who dislike something before making a change. And if a major majority dislike a weapon, then we will make amends to make it more enjoyable to them. Just because one gun is removed and someone complains that they dislike another gun so it should be removed as well, unless they have a major majority backing, nothing would be done.

I know majority rule is technically "fair", but we are bound to start losing members when we start removing guns. I personnally know a few who threatened to quit if boltshot is removed. I myself wouldn't quit at the loss of my beloved boltshot, but that is because I am a gamer. a competitor. i stand by everything that fc should stand for. If one person has a weapon, and im getting killed with it, i endure and i adapt myself to beat it. if i can't beat it, join it! use the same gun! that evens the playing field. if you are too proud to kill them with the same gun they are using against you, then that is your personal business.

Personally i hate the boltshot! i think its cheap! its a shotgun that you spawn with! but am i going to vote to remove it from fc? hell no!!! you know why? because even though the boltshot can kill me, it isn't invincible! it has the least range of any gun! anyone choosing to use it is hurting themself because i can use any other gun in the game and kill you while staying safely out of your effective range. the reason all guns are fair is because everyone has the option to use them equally! ordinance is unfair because they are completely random!!! i don't spawn with a random gun, i have a choice!!! whereas with ordinance i could get anything. i could get all guns i hate or all guns i love or nothing at all! it is based on luck, which is not fair for competition play. i can spawn with a boltshot if i feel like it. so can you. but we cant both chose to get rockets in our ordinance every time! sometimes i will not get one and everyone else will! it isn't fair to me to not have one if everyone else has one.

[Nicholas Sapien]

What a heated argument.
Stay chilly guys :)

[GhostHammer]

What a heated argument.
Stay chilly guys :)

I'm always watching, fear not.

[Jam Cliché]

I know majority rule is technically "fair", but we are bound to start losing members when we start removing guns. I personnally know a few who threatened to quit if boltshot is removed.
BUT WE AREN'T REMOVING IT


I myself wouldn't quit at the loss of my beloved boltshot, but that is because I am a gamer. a competitor. i stand by everything that fc should stand for. If one person has a weapon, and im getting killed with it, i endure and i adapt myself to beat it. if i can't beat it, join it! use the same gun! that evens the playing field. if you are too proud to kill them with the same gun they are using against you, then that is your personal business.
Normally killing someone who is wielding a powerful gun means you have stripped them of that power, but with the Boltshot this is not true. They get it again right after. That is part of the issue.


Personally i hate the boltshot! i think its cheap! its a shotgun that you spawn with! but am i going to vote to remove it from fc? hell no!!! you know why? because even though the boltshot can kill me, it isn't invincible! it has the least range of any gun! anyone choosing to use it is hurting themself because i can use any other gun in the game and kill you while staying safely out of your effective range.
The Boltshot's range is above all the other short range weapons.


the reason all guns are fair is because everyone has the option to use them equally!
That does not make fairness. Especially for the Plasma Pistol, because a vehicular driver can't pull out his own Plasma Pistol and expect that to make it better for him.


ordinance is unfair because they are completely random!!! i don't spawn with a random gun, i have a choice!!! whereas with ordinance i could get anything. i could get all guns i hate or all guns i love or nothing at all! it is based on luck, which is not fair for competition play. i can spawn with a boltshot if i feel like it. so can you. but we cant both chose to get rockets in our ordinance every time! sometimes i will not get one and everyone else will! it isn't fair to me to not have one if everyone else has one.
It isn't random.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I know majority rule is technically "fair", but we are bound to start losing members when we start removing guns. I personnally know a few who threatened to quit if boltshot is removed. I myself wouldn't quit at the loss of my beloved boltshot, but that is because I am a gamer. a competitor. i stand by everything that fc should stand for. If one person has a weapon, and im getting killed with it, i endure and i adapt myself to beat it. if i can't beat it, join it! use the same gun! that evens the playing field. if you are too proud to kill them with the same gun they are using against you, then that is your personal business.

Personally i hate the boltshot! i think its cheap! its a shotgun that you spawn with! but am i going to vote to remove it from fc? hell no!!! you know why? because even though the boltshot can kill me, it isn't invincible! it has the least range of any gun! anyone choosing to use it is hurting themself because i can use any other gun in the game and kill you while staying safely out of your effective range. the reason all guns are fair is because everyone has the option to use them equally! ordinance is unfair because they are completely random!!! i don't spawn with a random gun, i have a choice!!! whereas with ordinance i could get anything. i could get all guns i hate or all guns i love or nothing at all! it is based on luck, which is not fair for competition play. i can spawn with a boltshot if i feel like it. so can you. but we cant both chose to get rockets in our ordinance every time! sometimes i will not get one and everyone else will! it isn't fair to me to not have one if everyone else has one.

Like was mentioned, we aren't removing it completely. It will be found on the Map and in personal ordinance. We're making a compromise. People can't spawn with it, so it will be less frequent, but if you REALLY want to use it, they will be on the Map and in ordinance for you.

Boltshot remains, people are leaving/not playing. Boltshot is removed, people leave. That's why we're trying to meet in the middle and find something everyone can agree on.

[PanicPhan]

"It will be found on the Map and in personal ordinance" why? has this already gone through? I will not stand for a worsening of the game.

[Jam Cliché]

"It will be found on the Map and in personal ordinance" why? has this already gone through? I will not stand for a worsening of the game.

No, this is all a proposed revision that is being tested over the break from battles.

[PanicPhan]

This poll closes on 2-9 does it not? time to rally the vote. I guess it's time.... for every one of us... to get very loud.

[VerbotenDonkey]

"It will be found on the Map and in personal ordinance" why? has this already gone through? I will not stand for a worsening of the game.

I should watch my verb usage xD I meant it WOULD be. No, it has not gone through. That's what this vote is for. To remove the Boltshot from loadouts and instead only have it available on the Map/Ordinance.

[Al Capone111]

BOLSHOT WILL BE AT YOUR TEAMS SPAWN! Is your Spartan so fat and lazy he can't walk five feet to drop a magnum and pick up a boltshot?


It along with the PP will be on the maps in more than one location. And even if you miss it, wait a few seconds. Or (as you BS lovers always say) adapt. Use your primary weapon. Not to mention they may be putting it into OD.

Removing the BS and/or the PP from the loadouts will not put FC on a slippery slope to us all running around with fisticuffs. So stop saying that.

Can't we just please test these new tweaked gametypes out before we start condemning them? This obviously isn't an easy issue to fix. It will take several steps and revisions to get it "OK". It will never be perfect.

[Jam Cliché]

This poll closes on 2-9 does it not? time to rally the vote. I guess it's time.... for every one of us... to get very loud.

Why do you keep saying that? You've ignored all the details of this revision, and chosen to jump on the platform of the idea that you're being oppressed. Just speak your mind in the poll. Don't talk about how Ordnance sucks or that you don't care about the Boltshot or that any of these weapons are bad. Discuss how this really affects the gameplay. From a broad perspective. Look at it for what it is, and what it is trying to accomplish. Then vote.

[zaradomerix]

Like was mentioned, we aren't removing it completely. It will be found on the Map and in personal ordinance. We're making a compromise. People can't spawn with it, so it will be less frequent, but if you REALLY want to use it, they will be on the Map and in ordinance for you.

Boltshot remains, people are leaving/not playing. Boltshot is removed, people leave. That's why we're trying to meet in the middle and find something everyone can agree on.

Ok?... so hmm.... i don't need to spawn with a plasma pistol to protect myself from vehicles anymore... because i can pick one up on the map?... "That is correct."... ok. sure! ill just use my pistol!... run run run... wait?... where is that plasma pistol ordinance?... oh that's right! I have no F'n idea!!!! because its completely random! whats that!? after ten minutes of searching i found an ordinance drop! hurray!!! because of the fact that the drops are completely random! i prayed to God, that he may send me a plasma pistol!... what's this?... a rock?.. why did God send me a rock in my ordinance?... oh well... let his will be done (throws rock at warthog... bounces off uselessly...)... hmm... i really wish i had a plasma pistol right about now... SPLAT!!!!

[Jam Cliché]

Ok?... so hmm.... i don't need to spawn with a plasma pistol to protect myself from vehicles anymore... because i can pick one up on the map?... "That is correct."... ok. sure! ill just use my pistol!... run run run... wait?... where is that plasma pistol ordinance?... oh that's right! I have no F'n idea!!!! because its completely random! whats that!? after ten minutes of searching i found an ordinance drop! hurray!!! because of the fact that the drops are completely random! i prayed to God, that he may send me a plasma pistol!... what's this?... a rock?.. why did God send me a rock in my ordinance?... oh well... let his will be done (throws rock at warthog... bounces off uselessly...)... hmm... i really wish i had a plasma pistol right about now... SPLAT!!!!
ORDNANCE ISN'T RANDOM!

Why do you keep saying it is?

[Gargoyle]

Its nothing more than a test.

This isn't now the "Law of the land". If for some reason, actual gameplay turns out disastrous, we'll change it. But FOR NOW, at least something is happening. Try this, see where it goes. It's hard to be fully against something that hasn't been tried yet. It's only the first war, we gonna have problems nd shit and other shit nd shit that people won't get along with.

You can't please everyone =/

[VerbotenDonkey]

Ok?... so hmm.... i don't need to spawn with a plasma pistol to protect myself from vehicles anymore... because i can pick one up on the map?... "That is correct."... ok. sure! ill just use my pistol!... run run run... wait?... where is that plasma pistol ordinance?... oh that's right! I have no F'n idea!!!! because its completely random! whats that!? after ten minutes of searching i found an ordinance drop! hurray!!! because of the fact that the drops are completely random! i prayed to God, that he may send me a plasma pistol!... what's this?... a rock?.. why did God send me a rock in my ordinance?... oh well... let his will be done (throws rock at warthog... bounces off uselessly...)... hmm... i really wish i had a plasma pistol right about now... SPLAT!!!!

Like was mentioned before, we DO NOT use random map ordinance. Learn the drops ahead of time and you'll be fine.

- - - Updated - - -


Its nothing more than a test.

This isn't now the "Law of the land". If for some reason, actual gameplay turns out disastrous, we'll change it. But FOR NOW, at least something is happening. Try this, see where it goes. It's hard to be fully against something that hasn't been tried yet. It's only the first war, we gonna have problems nd shit and other shit nd shit that people won't get along with.

You can't please everyone =/

I believe we'll be testing it tomorrow with Myth at the Forge Meeting. All should attend before bashing the idea, and even though I voted no, I'm still going to give it a try :)

[Al Capone111]

Ok?... so hmm.... i don't need to spawn with a plasma pistol to protect myself from vehicles anymore... because i can pick one up on the map?... "That is correct."... ok. sure! ill just use my pistol!... run run run... wait?... where is that plasma pistol ordinance?... oh that's right! I have no F'n idea!!!! because its completely random! whats that!? after ten minutes of searching i found an ordinance drop! hurray!!! because of the fact that the drops are completely random! i prayed to God, that he may send me a plasma pistol!... what's this?... a rock?.. why did God send me a rock in my ordinance?... oh well... let his will be done (throws rock at warthog... bounces off uselessly...)... hmm... i really wish i had a plasma pistol right about now... SPLAT!!!!

Whats this? That OD has two plasmas in it?

Step one: Stick Hog with a plasma and flip it
Step two: Stick the underside of hog with other plasma
Step three: Profit

[Prof Blastoise]

At first I liked this compromise, now I am starting to think otherwise. I personally HATE the Boltshot with a passion. I know I would be able to do better if they did not whore the damn thing. I face BLUE's all the time that camp with the thing around corners and hide with it when they are one shot. It pisses me off.

As much as I hate it, you can't get rid of it. I'm an old school Halo player. We all started out evenly back in the day. In H2 we all started with a BR and SMG. Now Halo 4 comes along and changes it up. It's not fair for the new players to try and adapt to the old players style. I can still completely demolish people who use the Boltshot, but I need to change my play style a little.

I know it is frustrating for older Halo players to deal with, but it's just a matter of changing your play style. There is no reason to start a fight over a simple little weapon that people like to abuse. Besides, I enjoy having the Firepower ability or a plasma pistol as a secondary.

Either way, if we keep the Boltshot or not it won't change the game too much. If your WHOLE STRATEGY revolves around a bolt shot like Spiderman said, then you may have a problem. And if you keep getting killed by a bolt shot, then just simply change your game play style. Either way every one relax, it's not the end of the world. And we can get rid of some of this doubt with a simple belief, as Charles Peirce would say. So let us all remember that no matter who has a Boltshot and who doesn't, Guzzie will find you, and snipe you.

[PanicPhan]

I'm being oppressed? Kid, I stand on the platform of no personal ordinance drops. Personal loadouts are fine. The guns in the game are fine. I've clearly ignored all the details of this revision as well (sarcasm intended). We want no personal ordinance drops. You can bring up anything else you'd like in order to skew the entire verbage, but it will not have any hold. And do not say that I have ignored all the details.

- - - Updated - - -

Blastoise, this is not about the boltshot. Good lord have I said I don't care about the boltshot 4 times yet?

[Jam Cliché]

I'm being oppressed? Kid, I stand on the platform of no personal ordinance drops. Personal loadouts are fine. The guns in the game are fine. I've clearly ignored all the details of this revision as well (sarcasm intended). We want no personal ordinance drops. You can bring up anything else you'd like in order to skew the entire verbage, but it will not have any hold. And do not say that I have ignored all the details.
Please, do not call me "Kid". I know what you want, I don't know who the "we" you're talking about is, and I know that your opinion isn't the only one that matters. If you cannot accept that, then fine, vote for Option 4. But don't think for a second that this is about just pleasing you.


- - - Updated - - -

Blastoise, this is not about the boltshot. Good lord have I said I don't care about the boltshot 4 times yet?
It is about the Boltshot. The title has "Boltshot" in it. Half of the revision involves the Boltshot quite heavily.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I'm being oppressed? Kid, I stand on the platform of no personal ordinance drops. Personal loadouts are fine. The guns in the game are fine. I've clearly ignored all the details of this revision as well (sarcasm intended). We want no personal ordinance drops. You can bring up anything else you'd like in order to skew the entire verbage, but it will not have any hold. And do not say that I have ignored all the details.

- - - Updated - - -

Blastoise, this is not about the boltshot. Good lord have I said I don't care about the boltshot 4 times yet?

Panic THIS TOPIC is about the Boltshot compromise. We aren't arguing no personal ordinance here.

Also, with this compromise, rockets/sniper are removed from the regular ordinance anyway, so the best you can get out of it would be a sword/shotgun? Heavy is different

[THExSPIDERMAN]

At first I liked this compromise, now I am starting to think otherwise. I personally HATE the Boltshot with a passion. I know I would be able to do better if they did not whore the damn thing. I face BLUE's all the time that camp with the thing around corners and hide with it when they are one shot. It pisses me off.

As much as I hate it, you can't get rid of it. I'm an old school Halo player. We all started out evenly back in the day. In H2 we all started with a BR and SMG. Now Halo 4 comes along and changes it up. It's not fair for the new players to try and adapt to the old players style. I can still completely demolish people who use the Boltshot, but I need to change my play style a little.

I know it is frustrating for older Halo players to deal with, but it's just a matter of changing your play style. There is no reason to start a fight over a simple little weapon that people like to abuse. Besides, I enjoy having the Firepower ability or a plasma pistol as a secondary.

Either way, if we keep the Boltshot or not it won't change the game too much. If your WHOLE STRATEGY revolves around a bolt shot like Spiderman said, then you may have a problem. And if you keep getting killed by a bolt shot, then just simply change your game play style. Either way every one relax, it's not the end of the world. And we can get rid of some of this doubt with a simple belief, as Charles Peirce would say. So let us all remember that no matter who has a Boltshot and who doesn't, Guzzie will find you, and snipe you.

I didn't say my whole playstyle relied on, it just the part where I retreat around a corner like a little bitch and boltshot the person foolish enough to follow me. :-)

[Al Capone111]

Blastoise, this is not about the boltshot. Good lord have I said I don't care about the boltshot 4 times yet?




It is about the Boltshot. The title has "Boltshot" in it. Half of the revision involves the Boltshot quite heavily.

It is about both. YOUR argument might not be about the BS, but YOUR argument is not the only one taking place here. Nor is YOUR opinion on the subject the only one, let alone the most important.

[zaradomerix]

BOLSHOT WILL BE AT YOUR TEAMS SPAWN! Is your Spartan so fat and lazy he can't walk five feet to drop a magnum and pick up a boltshot?


It along with the PP will be on the maps in more than one location. And even if you miss it, wait a few seconds. Or (as you BS lovers always say) adapt. Use your primary weapon. Not to mention they may be putting it into OD.

Removing the BS and/or the PP from the loadouts will not put FC on a slippery slope to us all running around with fisticuffs. So stop saying that.

Can't we just please test these new tweaked gametypes out before we start condemning them? This obviously isn't an easy issue to fix. It will take several steps and revisions to get it "OK". It will never be perfect.

I'm going to ignore the fact that you specifically called me out, because you made one valid point. Testing. I have no problem testing the waters with these new ideas, but that's the problem. Not one person has suggested a TEST. they have said, change it, and use it in battle night. no one has said, lets have a few practice sessions and see how we like. they all say, let's do it, and to me it sounds like these changes will either become perminant, or once we make them it will be A TON of work to change them again if we do not like them. an actual TEST would be great. and if someone wants to make a new poll to vote on whether or not to TEST these new ideas i would gladly vote yes. but voting right away to change them is a huge jump that many players, such as myself, are not willing to take. It cause me to lose 3 or 4 battle nights before we decide its a bad idea and then one team wins the war over a bad idea... but yes a test would be great. someone make a poll...

[Jam Cliché]

I'm going to ignore the fact that you specifically called me out, because you made one valid point. Testing. I have no problem testing the waters with these new ideas, but that's the problem. Not one person has suggested a TEST. they have said, change it, and use it in battle night. no one has said, lets have a few practice sessions and see how we like. they all say, let's do it, and to me it sounds like these changes will either become perminant, or once we make them it will be A TON of work to change them again if we do not like them. an actual TEST would be great. and if someone wants to make a new poll to vote on whether or not to TEST these new ideas i would gladly vote yes. but voting right away to change them is a huge jump that many players, such as myself, are not willing to take. It cause me to lose 3 or 4 battle nights before we decide its a bad idea and then one team wins the war over a bad idea... but yes a test would be great. someone make a poll...
We've been saying it all along. We're testing the options. That's why it's being put up now, on the week we have break. This whole thread is for testing and getting suggestions and discussion issues.

Why do you ignore all my posts? I'm trying to be helpful here.

[Al Capone111]

I'm going to ignore the fact that you specifically called me out, because you made one valid point. Testing. I have no problem testing the waters with these new ideas, but that's the problem. Not one person has suggested a TEST. they have said, change it, and use it in battle night. no one has said, lets have a few practice sessions and see how we like. they all say, let's do it, and to me it sounds like these changes will either become perminant, or once we make them it will be A TON of work to change them again if we do not like them. an actual TEST would be great. and if someone wants to make a new poll to vote on whether or not to TEST these new ideas i would gladly vote yes. but voting right away to change them is a huge jump that many players, such as myself, are not willing to take. It cause me to lose 3 or 4 battle nights before we decide its a bad idea and then one team wins the war over a bad idea... but yes a test would be great. someone make a poll...

Thursday night. Myth is hosting testing. As are many other leaders. Look back a few pages. I want to say its at 9pm est.

[Nicholas Sapien]

I'm going to ignore the fact that you specifically called me out, because you made one valid point. Testing. I have no problem testing the waters with these new ideas, but that's the problem. Not one person has suggested a TEST. they have said, change it, and use it in battle night. no one has said, lets have a few practice sessions and see how we like. they all say, let's do it, and to me it sounds like these changes will either become perminant, or once we make them it will be A TON of work to change them again if we do not like them. an actual TEST would be great. and if someone wants to make a new poll to vote on whether or not to TEST these new ideas i would gladly vote yes. but voting right away to change them is a huge jump that many players, such as myself, are not willing to take. It cause me to lose 3 or 4 battle nights before we decide its a bad idea and then one team wins the war over a bad idea... but yes a test would be great. someone make a poll...
The forge department has already planned that they will be testing it.

[zaradomerix]

Panic THIS TOPIC is about the Boltshot compromise. We aren't arguing no personal ordinance here.

Also, with this compromise, rockets/sniper are removed from the regular ordinance anyway, so the best you can get out of it would be a sword/shotgun? Heavy is different

really.... posted in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise thread... but theres no ordinance involved... you know... in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise... the boltshot/ordinance comprimise is about the boltshot... and has nothing to do with ordinance... is anyone else reading this because i really cant even make a point here, he already made it for me.

[Prof Blastoise]

I'm being oppressed? Kid, I stand on the platform of no personal ordinance drops. Personal loadouts are fine. The guns in the game are fine. I've clearly ignored all the details of this revision as well (sarcasm intended). We want no personal ordinance drops. You can bring up anything else you'd like in order to skew the entire verbage, but it will not have any hold. And do not say that I have ignored all the details.

- - - Updated - - -

Blastoise, this is not about the boltshot. Good lord have I said I don't care about the boltshot 4 times yet?

... I don't care about what you said and I never read all of the recent posts... I was posting my opinion about the topic at hand, not your opinion.

[Al Capone111]

really.... posted in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise thread... but theres no ordinance involved... you know... in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise... the boltshot/ordinance comprimise is about the boltshot... and has nothing to do with ordinance... is anyone else reading this because i really cant even make a point here, he already made it for me.

You must be looking at the wrong thread. Cause it is there in plain english. On the first page. (Unless the original post has been edited)

[Nicholas Sapien]

really.... posted in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise thread... but theres no ordinance involved... you know... in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise... the boltshot/ordinance comprimise is about the boltshot... and has nothing to do with ordinance... is anyone else reading this because i really cant even make a point here, he already made it for me.

Calm down no need for that.

[Jam Cliché]

really.... posted in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise thread... but theres no ordinance involved... you know... in the boltshot/ordinance comprimise... the boltshot/ordinance comprimise is about the boltshot... and has nothing to do with ordinance... is anyone else reading this because i really cant even make a point here, he already made it for me.

You shouldn't mock Donkey. He's a respected member of this community and a High Council member for your faction. You'd do well to give him his due. He clearly made a syntax error in his post and forgot to mention the Ordnance, but you should already know that the issues at hand are both the Secondary Weapons AND Ordnance Weapons.

[Al Capone111]

Here is an early proposal of a possible Ordnance setup:



Left Slot (Niche Weapon)

Needler (w=3; 30%)
Concussion Rifle (w=3; 30%)
Plasma Pistol (w=2; 20%)
Boltshot (w=2; 20%)


Bottom Slot (Main Ordnance)

Shotgun (w=1; 20%)
Energy Sword (w=1; 20%)
SAW (w=1; 20%)
Sticky Detonator (w=1; 20%)
Railgun (w=1; 20%)


Right Slot (Powerup/Grenades)

Speed Boost (w=2; 18%)
Damage Boost (w=1; 9%)
Overshield (w=2; 18%)
Frag Grenades (w=2; 18%)
Plasma Grenades (w=2; 18%)
Pulse Grenades (w=2; 18%)




Regular Ordnance would have the Rocket Launcher and Sniper Rifle removed, which will be featured more on the maps.



Left Slot (Niche Weapon)

Needler (w=2; 20%)
Concussion Rifle (w=2; 20%)
Plasma Pistol (w=3; 30%)
Boltshot (w=1; 10%)
Shotgun (w=1; 10%)
Energy Sword (w=1; 10%)


Bottom Slot (Main Ordnance)

SAW (w=3; 27%)
Sticky Detonator (w=3; 27%)
Railgun (w=2; 18%)
Fuel Rod Cannon (w=1; 9%)
Rocket Launcher (w=1; 9%)
Sniper Rifle (w=1; 9%)


Right Slot (Powerup/Grenades)

Speed Boost (w=2; 25%)
Damage Boost (w=1; 13%)
Overshield (w=2; 25%)
Frag Grenades (w=1; 13%)
Plasma Grenades (w=1; 13%)
Pulse Grenades (w=1; 13%)




Heavy Ordnance would have the Gravity Hammer, Beam Rifle, and Spartan Laser removed, some of which will likely respawn on the map itself, depending on vehicles.
Ordnance would be earned every 150 instead of 200 points.



Just incase you missed it. And to remind everyone what was proposed as far as drops and rates.

[PanicPhan]

why don't we test my option?

[zaradomerix]

Thursday night. Myth is hosting testing. As are many other leaders. Look back a few pages. I want to say its at 9pm est.

thank you. there's a lot of hostility being pointed at me for posting my OPINION. and i am become very aggressive due to the feedback specifically bashing me. i have been very sarcastic and annoyed all night and i am glad that you were able to accoplish a goal of stating FACTS as well as your opinion without starting a personal battle. once again, thank you.

[Jam Cliché]

why don't we test my option?

I tried to the night we played. You insisted that we didn't.

- - - Updated - - -


thank you. there's a lot of hostility being pointed at me for posting my OPINION. and i am become very aggressive due to the feedback specifically bashing me. i have been very sarcastic and annoyed all night and i am glad that you were able to accoplish a goal of stating FACTS as well as your opinion without starting a personal battle. once again, thank you.

No one is hostile toward you. You are hostile toward all of us, ranting, raving, ignoring the facts we've been trying to tell you. I am still not sure you understand that Ordnance isn't random yet.

[Al Capone111]

thank you. there's a lot of hostility being pointed at me for posting my OPINION. and i am become very aggressive due to the feedback specifically bashing me. i have been very sarcastic and annoyed all night and i am glad that you were able to accoplish a goal of stating FACTS as well as your opinion without starting a personal battle. once again, thank you.

This is what we need. Your welcome. :party:


I know its a lot of pages, but sometimes skimming through them helps. Don't need to read every post, just a few made by key members

[zaradomerix]

You shouldn't mock Donkey. He's a respected member of this community and a High Council member for your faction. You'd do well to give him his due. He clearly made a syntax error in his post and forgot to mention the Ordnance, but you should already know that the issues at hand are both the Secondary Weapons AND Ordnance Weapons.

I do respect donkey, i really do. but this is not about red and blue right now. its about ordinance vs no ordinance. and boltshot vs no boltshot. i will argue what i need to if it makes my point valid. i do not mean to "mock" anyone besides yourself. personally i think you have no idea what you are talking about and in every other post you contradict yourself to make it seem like you were right all along when infact with new information you have been proven wrong many times.

I do offer my sincerest appologies to donkey as i do have much respect for him. but i am not sure i can continue to stay on this thread as the thought of reading another one of your posts prompts me to take my waterproof aluminum bat to my forehead and watch the blood drip off of it so that i have someone to have an intelligent conversation with.

[Jam Cliché]

I do respect donkey, i really do. but this is not about red and blue right now. its about ordinance vs no ordinance. and boltshot vs no boltshot. i will argue what i need to if it makes my point valid. i do not mean to "mock" anyone besides yourself. personally i think you have no idea what you are talking about and in every other post you contradict yourself to make it seem like you were right all along when infact with new information you have been proven wrong many times.

I do offer my sincerest appologies to donkey as i do have much respect for him. but i am not sure i can continue to stay on this thread as the thought of reading another one of your posts prompts me to take my waterproof aluminum bat to my forehead and watch the blood drip off of it so that i have someone to have an intelligent conversation with.
Okay, really? I have only said the same things Al Capone told you.

[Al Capone111]

I do respect donkey, i really do.............your posts prompts me to take my waterproof aluminum bat to my forehead and watch the blood drip off of it so that i have someone to have an intelligent conversation with.


Okay, really? I have only said the same things Al Capone told you.

Both of you, stop. Go to your corners, splash some water on your faces and calm the hell down. Then when you are ready to be civil, come out and start anew. Both of you.

[Jam Cliché]

Both of you, stop. Go to your corners, splash some water on your faces and calm the hell down. Then when you are ready to be civil, come out and start anew. Both of you.

I don't get it! Why does everyone think I am being uncivil? I am typing on the internet. I have not insulted anyone. Don't mock me, Al.

[Al Capone111]

I am not mocking you. Im ending a potential pissing contest before it gets started.

He probably saw mine before yours depending on how the page refreshed. Let it go

[Jam Cliché]

I am not mocking you. Im ending a potential pissing contest before it gets started.

He probably saw mine before yours depending on how the page refreshed. Let it go
There is no pissing contest. I am not trying to beat him. I'm trying to explain.

There isn't much more to be said on this topic. I will continue to try to explain this revision if anyone has any concerns or questions. It's important to me. It's the only reason I am posting here. Not to argue or insult or be treated like a child. I proposed something I feel can help the community, and I welcome disagreement, as long as the other bloke can handle my disagreement, too. I welcome it, it means we discover more about the game.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Calm down
let's just get off the site for a moment and go to sleep, I bet we are all just tired right now

[bazongaman502]

3436

Thread closed. If an Admin feels this should be opened, you may, i just dont like where it is heading and havent liked it for a while.

Thank you.

[PhoenixPrime]

I've read the proposal, and I think it's worth a shot.


This won't ruin personal loadouts folks, let's remember that. It might limit them very slightly, but I think it's worth taking a good look at.



In the meantime:


Remain civil.








If I see so much as another sarcastic, disrespectful remark, about anyone else's opinion regarding this topic, I swear to God I'll bring the hammer down in the swiftest way possible.

This topic is for polite debate and opinion, and solution-seeking, not for ego-boosting or penis-measuring. Intellect doesn't show when you post this sort of crap on the Internet. Any person can just go and post some harsh words on a forum board in retaliation to something another person said. Real intellect shows when an individual presents a calm mind, and intentional word use.

Let's be civil here.


UPDATE:


Seeing as it's now closed, this point is moot. I'd strongly advise you all to heed my words, regardless.

[Mythonian]

This thread has been locked, but thank you to all of you who provided decent input.

Testing, as has been announced before, will take place tonight (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST. I highly recommend you try to be there.