Play tested the Compromise

[xThe GD Batman]

I don't like it.

Taking out Boltshot, Magnum & the Firepower perk, and might be other things I'm forgetting about. All because you want to solve two problems at once? They need to be dealt with separately. No reason to take out EXTRA stuff. I'm mostly irritated about Firepower being gone. Not only are we dealing with one issue(ordinance) by slapping another issue(boltshot) on to it. Wasn't the boltshot debate already settled by saying it is staying, deal with it? Now we are taking two unrelated option out of the game for no reason at all(magnum & firepower) just to kill two birds with one stone.

I'm not saying we don't need a compromise, I'm just saying this seems like a ridiculous way of dealing with it. I tried it and I personally don't like it. I think we need to come up with something better.

If I'm the ONLY person that feels this way then that's fine. I'll drop it and deal with the new rules.

Some of you will read this and just say "shut up you're new and know nothing." That's fine too. If you're just going to disregard me as a dumb new guy then just move on and don't even reply. Others will reply trying to discredit me or pull my argument apart bit by bit. I don't care and I wont respond and argue with you. I just wanted to post my opinions as someone who has tested the compromise.

[VerbotenDonkey]

I'll be honest, I wasn't too keen on it either. Everyone having Plasma Pistols in BtB was just too crazy, all vehicles just get countered immediately. Didn't try any 4v4's, but I think it's too major of a change just to remove the Boltshot.

[Mythonian]

I was about to make a thread about the testing, so mind if I commandeer this one? :)

Just want everyone's opinions, and also recommendations for improving the compromise, or even developing an entirely new compromise.


Taking out Boltshot, Magnum & the Firepower perk, and might be other things I'm forgetting about. All because you want to solve two problems at once? They need to be dealt with separately. No reason to take out EXTRA stuff. I'm mostly irritated about Firepower being gone. Not only are we dealing with one issue(ordinance) by slapping another issue(boltshot) on to it. Wasn't the boltshot debate already settled by saying it is staying, deal with it? Now we are taking two unrelated option out of the game for no reason at all(magnum & firepower) just to kill two birds with one stone.

I understand your opinion, however I disagree with the statement that they need to be dealt with separately. Because if we try to do them separately, we'll end up never changing anything because the topics are too divisive and split down the middle.

As I said several times in that lobby: FC cares about fun. Some people dislike Boltshot, so we considered adjusting them, but we won't outright remove them because just as many people like the Boltshot. The same for Ordnance.


I'm not saying we don't need a compromise, I'm just saying this seems like a ridiculous way of dealing with it. I tried it and I personally don't like it. I think we need to come up with something better.

If you can suggest a good compromise, it's be greatly appreciated, because unfortunately I cannot think of many other ways to compromise besides what we were testing out.

[Nicholas Sapien]

Everything seemed fine to me with the compromise, I would tweak the ordnance drops a bit for the heavy gametypes to make the bigger power weapons spawn less.

[xThe GD Batman]

You're welcome to it sir =)

But but but...the botshot debate was settled already....why bring it back up? If we settle this debate and I suddenly don't like Warthogs, are you going to bring up the boltshot, ordinances and warthogs again all at once and combine them into something different...?

Sadly, I have no better suggestions at this point. But I would rater change nothing than change things based on a bad idea(In my opinion).

[Mythonian]

But but but...the botshot debate was settled already....why bring it back up? If we settle this debate and I suddenly don't like Warthogs, are you going to bring up the boltshot, ordinances and warthogs again all at once and combine them into something different...?

It was settled? I thought that it was a stalemate that was kind of just swept under the carpet. xD

I still get plenty of complaints about boltshots almost constantly, so I'm not just going to ignore those people, just like how I'm not going to ignore you or anyone else. That's why I included it in the compromise.


Sadly, I have no better suggestions at this point. But I would rater change nothing than change things based on a bad idea(In my opinion).

If we don't reach a satisfying compromise, we'll probably end up doing that.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

It was settled? I thought that it was a stalemate that was kind of just swept under the carpet. xD

I still get plenty of complaints about boltshots almost constantly, so I'm not just going to ignore those people, just like how I'm not going to ignore you or anyone else. That's why I included it in the compromise.



If we don't reach a satisfying compromise, we'll probably end up doing that.

I would love it if we changed nothing. I think the wars should be as close to vanilla halo as possible.

[xThe GD Batman]

It was settled? I thought that it was a stalemate that was kind of just swept under the carpet. xD

I still get plenty of complaints about boltshots almost constantly, so I'm not just going to ignore those people, just like how I'm not going to ignore you or anyone else. That's why I included it in the compromise.

Okay, awesome. I understand. Thank you.


If we don't reach a satisfying compromise, we'll probably end up doing that.

Good to know. Thanks. Why can't everyone just respond with sane, logical, calm & respectful sentences like you? Haha. I'm referring to the other polls of course. =P

[Mythonian]

I would love it if we changed nothing. I think the wars should be as close to vanilla halo as possible.

Well, certain things will never be made default (atleast, probably not). Such as it being 15 minutes long with no score limit. That's like the trademark of our games.

Also, our gametypes will probably work differently. We'll never end up using pure MM gametypes, because of the long tradition of Hill 30 and such.

(and also I think MM ordnance is broken: Incineration Cannons and Binary Rifles in 4v4s are too much)

So... yeah... We try to keep things relatively similar to MM (more so than we did in Reach, at least), so that practicing in MM works well, but we'll probably not go to straight default.

[xThe GD Batman]

I would love it if we changed nothing. I think the wars should be as close to vanilla halo as possible.

vanilla halo? for vanilla halo we would have to change everything. But w/e changing nothing seems like the best option at this point.

[Jam Cliché]

I rather liked the Boltshot part. With Magnums in place, I feel more confident in going after no shielded opponents who run away. I also used Shotgun and Sword MUCH more, and melee as well. The Boltshot stopped interfering with these other weapons the moment it was taken away from loadouts.

As for Ordnance, I can't say. You know I totally agree with the Ordnance set up on small maps. Drops are medium grade, map spawns are high and low grade. I even got a Boltshot dropped and used it.

Heavy Ordnance seems to really come to a T on games like Hill 30. Everybody had Rockets and Fuel Rods eventually. They were pretty common. I also didn't like Plasma Pistol starts. It felt the same, since I used PP in BTB anyway. They shut down vehicles more than they did when they were just optional. I'd rather go with Magnums in BTB as well, OR not use the Boltshot compromise in Heavy gametypes. The BS isn't an issue in the larger games anyway, and a lot of people feel limited by cutting out the Firepower perk on big games. So maybe we should limit the Boltshot change to small games, implement the new Ordnance on small games, and work on tweaking the Heavy game Ordnance?

[Mythonian]

... not use the Boltshot compromise in Heavy gametypes. The BS isn't an issue in the larger games anyway, and a lot of people feel limited by cutting out the Firepower perk on big games. So maybe we should limit the Boltshot change to small games, implement the new Ordnance on small games, and work on tweaking the Heavy game Ordnance?

That's an interesting idea. Definitely something we should test out a bit more, and make sure we refine the Heavy ordnance even more.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

vanilla halo? for vanilla halo we would have to change everything. But w/e changing nothing seems like the best option at this point.

By vanilla halo, I mean vanilla Halo 4.

[xThe GD Batman]

By vanilla halo, I mean vanilla Halo 4.

Oh, alright. But that would mean default everything. Not even any map changes. Might as well just take a group of 16 into BTB then.

[Al Capone111]

not use the Boltshot compromise in Heavy gametypes. The BS isn't an issue in the larger games anyway, and a lot of people feel limited by cutting out the Firepower perk on big games. So maybe we should limit the Boltshot change to small games, implement the new Ordnance on small games, and work on tweaking the Heavy game Ordnance?

Yeah. This could work. Can we test that? And maybe lower the spawn time in heavy by a second or two?

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Oh, alright. But that would mean default everything. Not even any map changes. Might as well just take a group of 16 into BTB then.

I'm mainly concerned about the load out situations. Tbh you could change any of the other settings, and unless if it's a drastic change I wouldn't even notice.

[GhostHammer]

The purpose of this thread is to comment on the testing that took place with the proposed changes.

Please stay on this topic. This IS NOT a debate about either side, it's to comment on the testing and provide feedback. If anyone starts up again, they will receive punishment according to their actions.

[Mythonian]

Yeah. This could work. Can we test that? And maybe lower the spawn time in heavy by a second or two?

In gametypes with Instant Respawn, respawn timers don't matter. What gametype(s) are you referring to?

[Al Capone111]

In heavy game types there were way to many PPs. And on Lockout the flag issue. But other than that it worked fairly well

- - - Updated - - -


In gametypes with Instant Respawn, respawn timers don't matter. What gametype(s) are you referring to?

HeavyCTF on excile. I had no option for instant which is fine. But I kept getting a 10 sec respawn. IDk. May have tarded out or something. But either way 10 sec was way to much

[Mythonian]

In heavy game types there were way to many PPs. And on Lockout the flag issue. But other than that it worked fairly well

- - - Updated - - -



HeavyCTF on excile. I had no option for instant which is fine. But I kept getting a 10 sec respawn. IDk. May have tarded out or something. But either way 10 sec was way to much

Jam's recent suggestion would resolve the PP issue. I fixed the flag issue earlier in forge.

The only option lower than 10 seconds is 5 seconds, which makes it nigh impossible to get the flag out of the enemy base.

[Al Capone111]

The only option lower than 10 seconds is 5 seconds, which makes it nigh impossible to get the flag out of the enemy base.

Lame. But glad the other issues are fixed.

[KazuhLLL]

Heavy Ordnance seems to really come to a T on games like Hill 30. Everybody had Rockets and Fuel Rods eventually. They were pretty common. I also didn't like Plasma Pistol starts. It felt the same, since I used PP in BTB anyway. They shut down vehicles more than they did when they were just optional. I'd rather go with Magnums in BTB as well, OR not use the Boltshot compromise in Heavy gametypes. The BS isn't an issue in the larger games anyway, and a lot of people feel limited by cutting out the Firepower perk on big games. So maybe we should limit the Boltshot change to small games, implement the new Ordnance on small games, and work on tweaking the Heavy game Ordnance?

I quite like this idea. (I mean, I liked the original, too but this seems to have more benefits for both sides). It would solve the PP issue while still allowing people to spawn with Boltshots if they so chose for the larger maps. Also, Firepower--which is much more useful on bigger maps--would still be a viable option.

I still think Heavy games Ordnance should be 200 points, and/or the percentages cut down more for Heavier weapons. Right now the combined percentages for Rockets, Sniper, and Fuel Rod is greater than 25%, which means it's likely that every 3-4 minutes about two people on the opposite team (in 8v8's) will have very heavy weapons. That in itself isn't so bad, but add the heavy map ordnance into the equation and as many as 3-4 will have power weapons every 4 minutes or so. Idk about anyone else, but that seems a little too "fiesta-slayer"-ey to me :P

[Kcr33d]

I would just like to say i'm glad that I can finally leave a comment for once without the thread being closed because of people who are upset with the game atm..... Moving on

I havn't tested out this new setup that you have going on, but so far eliminating the boltshot from small games and leaving it alone in BTB sounds like the best idea so far. I say this because taking out the Bolt shot won't mess me up since I'm one of the few people who doesn't use it unless I've picked it up. And people can have there PeePee shooter on vehicles during BtB. To me this is problem solved.

Btw just because you take Boltshot away won't keep people from camping, nor make it less. I got that last sentence off my chest finally. TY and if nothing gets changed it won't matter because I'm sure that it's not gonna keep most people in FC from playing every sunday anyway.

[Al Capone111]

Ok, so far we got this out this thread:

In Heavy:
-Leave classes fully as personal (can spawn with BS or PP, use firepower if wanted)
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD items
-Would BS and/or PP be placed on maps that use the Heavy gametypes?

In regular:
-Everyone starts with Mag, everything else personal (no spawning with BS or PP, and Firepower would be useless on these maps)
-BS and PP on maps
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD item


Is that what everyone is saying in a nutshell? Or did I overlook something?

[Nicholas Sapien]

Ok, so far we got this out this thread:

In Heavy:
-Leave classes fully as personal (can spawn with BS or PP, use firepower if wanted)
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD items
-Would BS and/or PP be placed on maps that use the Heavy gametypes?

In regular:
-Everyone starts with Mag, everything else personal (no spawning with BS or PP, and Firepower would be useless on these maps)
-BS and PP on maps
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD item


Is that what everyone is saying in a nutshell? Or did I overlook something?

I like it

[Sinopera]

I would just like to say i'm glad that I can finally leave a comment for once without the thread being closed because of people who are upset with the game atm..... Moving on

I havn't tested out this new setup that you have going on, but so far eliminating the boltshot from small games and leaving it alone in BTB sounds like the best idea so far. I say this because taking out the Bolt shot won't mess me up since I'm one of the few people who doesn't use it unless I've picked it up. And people can have there PeePee shooter on vehicles during BtB. To me this is problem solved.

Btw just because you take Boltshot away won't keep people from camping, nor make it less. I got that last sentence off my chest finally. TY and if nothing gets changed it won't matter because I'm sure that it's not gonna keep most people in FC from playing every sunday anyway.




Just because it doesn't mess you up doesn't mean it won't mess other people up, You shouldn't have a say because i'm sure you just die a lot from Bolt shots and it's prob the reason why you defend getting rid of it.

[Al Capone111]

Just because it doesn't mess you up doesn't mean it won't mess other people up, You shouldn't have a say because i'm sure you just die a lot from Bolt shots and it's prob the reason why you defend getting rid of it.

By that logic you shouldn't have a say (nor should anyone who uses it) because they kill with it and they will defend keeping it.

We are trying to find a way that will make everyone happy, inconvenience very few in a minimal way. If you have anything to add, or a actual idea that may be better, we do want to hear it. Otherwise, let's try to keep this on topic and not let it get like the other topic did last night.

[Kcr33d]

Just because it doesn't mess you up doesn't mean it won't mess other people up, You shouldn't have a say because i'm sure you just die a lot from Bolt shots and it's prob the reason why you defend getting rid of it.


shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... they'll know my secret :bigbaby:

[Silko]

Ok, so far we got this out this thread:

In Heavy:
-Leave classes fully as personal (can spawn with BS or PP, use firepower if wanted)
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD items
-Would BS and/or PP be placed on maps that use the Heavy gametypes?

In regular:
-Everyone starts with Mag, everything else personal (no spawning with BS or PP, and Firepower would be useless on these maps)
-BS and PP on maps
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD item


Is that what everyone is saying in a nutshell? Or did I overlook something?

Didn't get the chance to take part of the testing but based off everyone's comments, this sounds like the best idea yet. Well to me that is.

[Maxdoggy]

Didn't get the chance to take part of the testing but based off everyone's comments, this sounds like the best idea yet. Well to me that is.

I concur.

[VerbotenDonkey]

Ok, so far we got this out this thread:

In Heavy:
-Leave classes fully as personal (can spawn with BS or PP, use firepower if wanted)
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD items
-Would BS and/or PP be placed on maps that use the Heavy gametypes?

In regular:
-Everyone starts with Mag, everything else personal (no spawning with BS or PP, and Firepower would be useless on these maps)
-BS and PP on maps
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD item


Is that what everyone is saying in a nutshell? Or did I overlook something?

Yeah this compromise looks the best. :)

[xXReiBearXx]

I wasn't there for testing either but I trust from what I am reading looks like all is well with the FC world

[Specact]

I still want the ordinance drops gone because once again I don't like the randomness they bring to the game nor have I ever liked them but this seems like a good step forward. The rest of the compromise sounds fine to me.

[Zucav]

I think the compromise was perfectly fine.

[RaZ Vader]

Here is a Solution. Play the Game how its meant to be played. By not altering anything!

3439

[Zucav]

Here is a Solution. Play the Game how its meant to be played. By not altering anything!

3439

But forge is part of the game...

[RaZ Vader]

But forge is part of the game...

tooshay lol

[Zucav]

tooshay lol

hah,
Fc forge wars..
We all just kill each other in forge, anything goes, everyone's happy.

[Al Capone111]

Place several redd spawns
Put deathball over spawns
Profit

[Zucav]

Place several redd spawns
Put deathball over spawns
Profit

Thats cheap Capone..
... you put the Killball below the spawns so that they fall in it ...

[KazuhLLL]

Just because it doesn't mess you up doesn't mean it won't mess other people up, You shouldn't have a say because i'm sure you just die a lot from Bolt shots and it's prob the reason why you defend getting rid of it.
Kcr33d is a very passive player, which is why Boltshots don't really kill him too much. He often ends up with less than 5 deaths total xD


Ok, so far we got this out this thread:

In Heavy:
-Leave classes fully as personal (can spawn with BS or PP, use firepower if wanted)
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD items
-Would BS and/or PP be placed on maps that use the Heavy gametypes?

In regular:
-Everyone starts with Mag, everything else personal (no spawning with BS or PP, and Firepower would be useless on these maps)
-BS and PP on maps
-Edit OD rates
-Edit OD item


Is that what everyone is saying in a nutshell? Or did I overlook something?
I would just say no to the BS/PP placed on maps for the heavy gametypes and I think we have another thing to test :D

[Jam Cliché]

I like how this is going thus far. Judging from the feedback in regards to Heavy games, we should look into further editing the Heavy Ordnance Drops, while the Boltshot revision may be largely unnecessary.

In small games, I think the proposed Ordnance works. Medium Weapon Drops, Power Weapons on Map.