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Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
As with everything posted in the Suggestions forum, we read and listen to the recommendations made by members. The following is a result of the Boltshot issue, Personal Ordnance issue, and a few other smaller ones.
First of all, the votes cast in those two aforementioned polls were split pretty evenly. They are obviously divisive issues at the moment, and therefore deserve a nice compromise.
There is one way to remove Boltshots without going to preset loadouts. This was told to me by Jam, who discovered it while messing with settings.
In the base player traits, you can designate a secondary weapon, such as the Magnum. This will override the personal loadouts, meaning that all your loadouts will use the Magnum instead of Plasma Pistol or Boltshot, but you can still select whatever Primary, Grenade, Tactical Package, and Support Upgrade you want.
Now, this would be a way to remove it completely, but as a side effect it also removes the Plasma Pistol. What we can do is add them to the Personal Ordnance, which would also end up making the heavy power weapons less likely to occur.
This would also be accompanied by a remodeling of the Personal Ordnance setup, as well as adjusting the number of points required to receive Ordnance.
Here is an early proposal of a possible Ordnance setup:
Regular Ordnance would have the Rocket Launcher and Sniper Rifle removed, which will be featured more on the maps.
Heavy Ordnance would have the Gravity Hammer, Beam Rifle, and Spartan Laser removed, some of which will likely respawn on the map itself, depending on vehicles.
Ordnance would be earned every 150 instead of 200 points.
Additionally, since the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol would be almost never used in the Ordnance, they will spawn on the map (not with 5 minute respawns, probably 30 seconds most of the time), so this will allow you guys to pick up the desired secondary weapon, but won't immediately have it off of spawn. This will be especially true of the Plasma Pistols.
On a side note, we may be adjusting power weapon respawns on maps. Before, we had everything respawn every 5 minutes. We may adjust that so that certain weapons spawn faster than others. No specific details, as this is something map-specific.
TL;DR:
- We can force you to spawn with Magnums but still keep Personal Loadouts.
- Boltshots and Plasma Pistols in Ordnance.
- Rockets/Snipers removed from Regular Ordnance.
- Gravity Hammer, Beam Rifle, and Spartan Laser removed from Heavy Ordnance.
- Ordnance received more frequently (150 instead of 200 points)
- Boltshots and Plasma Pistols on the maps, able to be picked up if wanted.
- May adjust other power weapon respawns on maps.
So, vote in the poll above with you opinion of this, and give us your thoughts in a reply below.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
This seems to be a great step forward, but i dislike the idea of forcing everyone to spawn with the magnum. IDK but maybe there is a way to block certain load out traits. And i think we need to give the ordinance drop changes a test run, and have a few unofficial games that don't count, and see how people like them.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Me gusta, but I like snipers in ordinance.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Beam rifle is my favorite power weapon… :( But this is a good proposal. With some testing I think we can find an ideal solution.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JIMI HENRIX
This seems to be a great step forward, but i dislike the idea of forcing everyone to spawn with the magnum. IDK but maybe there is a way to block certain load out traits. And i think we need to give the ordinance drop changes a test run, and have a few unofficial games that don't count, and see how people like them.
That's one of the things I hope that 343 adds eventually, but at the moment you cannot simply block a Boltshot from being used without other things being affected.
We will definitely be testing this a lot. We have 2 weeks, so we have plenty of time to make sure we fine-tune this.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
let me know, i'm back and ready to test
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
This sounds... Wonderful. I don't know how this will turn out, but this sounds awesome
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Jam, you are a gentleman and a scholar. I couldn't have asked for a better solution for the Boltshot!
And I like the suggested ordnance adjustments, as well. The only issue I have is that I think it should stay at 200 score for Heavy gametypes only but I guess we'll see if 150 is too little when we test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fuzzy
Me gusta, but I like snipers in ordinance.
They'd only be removed from regular gametypes (AKA small maps). Because of this, Snipers will be more likely to be put on small maps as static ordnance. Hopefully this will encourage more map-control centered strategies a la H2, H3, and Reach. Like Myth said, weapon timers are likely to be adjusted so they'll probably spawn fairly frequently anyway. The only difference is that you'll have to expose yourselves to try and get the sniper rather than calling in an ordnance from the comfort of your own base.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5...jw1mo1_250.gif
This may need some further tweaking down the line. But I'd say this sounds great. Let's run with this for a few (2-3) weeks and see how we like it.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
The community voiced and we made an extremely good compromise.
I love this suggest and fully back it, good work Jam!
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
I honestly like how we already have it but it seems as if this will help everyone stop complaining.
Also I would like to see Beam/Binary rifle in ordinance as well as the incineration cannon but thats just me. This all looks great Myth.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Thank you for your feedback, everyone. This is by no means a "scholarly" idea, but I certainly don't mind being told I am brilliant. =D
It is all the while thanks to Myth for working hard as he does with gametype adjustments, as well as the War Council for considering my idea and forwarding it to the community. I know that not everyone minds the Boltshot, and some people will be equally concerned about not starting with a Plasma Pistol, but after the Boltshot thread got so heated, I just got it in my head that something had to be done (the next day I woke up with the idea for the solution, so I literally "slept on it"). When the Ordnance Drop issues came up as well, I had already discovered the trick for the Boltshot. I feel now that this compromise can amend both issues in ways that please both sides of their respective arguments.
It will be awkward for all of us at first - even though it is my idea, I know I will be weirded out when my BTB loadout has a Magnum in it. I urge everyone to consider the method carefully and decide for yourselves whether it will be difficult to adjust or not. I don't feel it is a huge change in itself, but can be a monumental change for the games as they proceed here at FC.
You may continue calling me a scholar, if that's cool.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
How will we counter vehicles though?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nicholas Sapien
How will we counter vehicles though?
Plasmas will spawn on map
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
The best way to counter vehicles is to increase their respawn times, possibly to 5 or 6 minutes if not already. This way, not only are vehicles more capable of lasting longer (fewer PP shots), but they are also infrequent, increasing the value they have on the outcome of the match.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UNLUCKY NUM13ER
I honestly like how we already have it but it seems as if this will help everyone stop complaining.
Also I would like to see Beam/Binary rifle in ordinance as well as the incineration cannon but thats just me. This all looks great Myth.
Personally I see the Binary and Incineration Cannon as ordnance that should be on the map itself (for example we had an Incineration Cannon on Ragnarok during the Beta War).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
The best way to counter vehicles is to increase their respawn times, possibly to 5 or 6 minutes if not already. This way, not only are vehicles more capable of lasting longer (fewer PP shots), but they are also infrequent, increasing the value they have on the outcome of the match.
The respawn timers only go up to 180 seconds (3 minutes). I believe it can be done using the Dominion Vehicle Pads, but the "charging" timers can be buggy sometimes, so I'm not sure about using them... We can test things out and see how they work.
Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mythonian
Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.
I should be on. Shoot me an invite
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.
Yes, Firepower is another option that has been neutralized by this, but it is a far lesser concern than the secondary weapon debate itself. Besides, this means that your loadout which uses Firepower can use something else.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic. You're going to alienate many current players and cause much less recruitment. Halo has evolved since its Halo 2 and 3 days, we have to keep moving forward. You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it. Just don't chase people around corners. I personally run nearly every REDD recruit through their boot camps, and I can think of one who used the magnum. It's stupid to take away things that exist and are popular in the game. This pisses me off. The only way I could ever get on board with this is if we just went to straight MLG weapons. A battle rifle and a magnum for everyone and leave the rest up to the players. I would definitely make the argument that the DMR is far more overpowered than the boltshot. But unless you're going to do that, leave ordinance how it is or our entire community will suffer. But I did vote that I liked part of this idea because I do approve of limiting the ordinance drops,though I prefer they not exist so we could only use skill to tell the difference.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nicholas Sapien
How will we counter vehicles though?
You can still spawn with 2-3 plasma grenades. Those plus team DMR/BR-ing is extremely effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mythonian
Personally I see the Binary and Incineration Cannon as ordnance that should be on the map itself (for example we had an Incineration Cannon on Ragnarok during the Beta War).
Agreed. Those are far too powerful to be earned in ordnance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mythonian
The respawn timers only go up to 180 seconds (3 minutes). I believe it can be done using the Dominion Vehicle Pads, but the "charging" timers can be buggy sometimes, so I'm not sure about using them... We can test things out and see how they work.
If plasmas and DMR's aren't enough, simply sticking a PP in or near each team's base with ~1min respawn timer should be sufficient. IMO the only vehicles that actually need a PP to counter effectively are the Scorpion, Wraith, and maybe the Gauss Hog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mythonian
Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.
Fortunately that's the same time as the BP practice, so hopefully I'll be able to get at least 4-5 guys on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.
First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change.
To actually address you're points, though: As someone who plays Halo fairly well I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users. Yes, with a bit of care you can avoid all of the users that suck with it (or are just bad at Halo itself) but a skilled player using the Boltshot will likely end up killing you because of the tiny charge time* of the gun and the absolutely ridiculous range. And the part about stickies is pretty moot because I'd say sticks account for (literally) less than 1/100 of my deaths compared to the Boltshot's 1/10 or so.
*Those who aren't very practiced with the Boltshot may not know that (unlike the Spartan Laser) you do not have to wait for the Boltshot to fire by itself. Once the flaps on the side are fully extended you may let go of the trigger and it will fire at full power--cutting the charge time to about half. This goes for the Railgun as well.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/i/20...ip-d31dh24.jpg
Oh no, we are changing how the minority of people play. Boohoo. Boltshot and Plasma Pistol will still be on the map. How about you try it before complaining.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Al Capone111
The majority of redd uses boltshots.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
The majority of redd uses boltshots.
Uses or relies on it?
And the majority of BLUE doesn't. So instead of one option that favors one army solely, how about we try this option which atleast tries to meet mid way. If it doesn't work, I am willing to bet my car that there will be no shortage of people pissing and moaning here on the forums.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
"First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change."
I'm not against change in Halo as long as it's done by experts who know what they're doing (343), I'm against people who didn't make the game changing it because of some sore losers and ruining play styles.
"As someone who plays Halo fairly well I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users."
Of course smart decisions won't protect you from all of them, there's not a weapon in the game that smart decisions could completely protect you from. But it will protect you from most of them.
"tiny charge time* of the gun and the absolutely ridiculous range."
That tiny charge time gives me more than enough time to dodge, and that "ridiculous range" is like
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanicPhan
I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.
You have made yourself abundantly clear when we discussed this in the past. But very few people can agree on how to treat this feature. That is why we are trying to add more powerful ordnance weapons to the maps themselves and mid-range power ordnance weapons to drops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeafOrangutan91
Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic... You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
The majority of redd uses boltshots.
I just don't see why nobody sees that one's playstyle should not be designed around a secondary weapon. If they are, then said weapon is overpowered. Is it more powerful than power weapons? Perhaps not, but it is clearly too powerful to fulfill its role as secondary.
Anyway, it isn't being removed, it is merely being moved out of the hands of players who just spawned and being put on the map. This is a compromise. Remember that while the majority of REDD may use Boltshots, you also have members in your faction who outright refuse to play because of them.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PanicPhan
I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.
I must say that none of this makes sense to me. You want ordnance removed completely yet are against this proposed limitation of ordnance (it will never be removed completely because ~50% of people like it). And from what I'm inferring from the rest of it, you prefer everyone to start off on the same playing field and only win because one team is better. Limiting ordnance makes the field itself quite a bit more fair and making everyone spawn with magnums is literally putting them on the same field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeafOrangutan91
Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic. You're going to alienate many current players and cause much less recruitment. Halo has evolved since its Halo 2 and 3 days, we have to keep moving forward. You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it. Just don't chase people around corners. I personally run nearly every REDD recruit through their boot camps, and I can think of one who used the magnum. It's stupid to take away things that exist and are popular in the game. This pisses me off. The only way I could ever get on board with this is if we just went to straight MLG weapons. A battle rifle and a magnum for everyone and leave the rest up to the players. I would definitely make the argument that the DMR is far more overpowered than the boltshot. But unless you're going to do that, leave ordinance how it is or our entire community will suffer. But I did vote that I liked part of this idea because I do approve of limiting the ordinance drops,though I prefer they not exist so we could only use skill to tell the difference.
I'm sorry, but the first two of those underlined statements are completely proven invalid (in the context of the FC player-base) by the results of the Boltshot poll. The majority of people in FC (that use the forums) want the Boltshot gone. Here is a solution that makes it mostly gone, yet still allows for it on occasion.
As far as the last statement goes, I find myself wanting to repeat what I just said to PanicPhan. If the idea of a fair playing field is ideal to you, then why be so up in arms about everyone starting with the same secondary? Yes, the field was fair before this proposal (because everyone could spawn with the Boltshot if they so chose) but by spawning with magnums, it deters camping playstyles. And if you're a fan of MLG like your post suggests, then you may agree that (in general) more map movement=more entertaining gameplay.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
i put yes, but i'm rather indifferent. I use the boltshot, but i'd be willing to see how this works. Although the big issue i see is the lack of a plasma pistol, which will make vehicles dominate any map they're on.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
"First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change."
I don't have a problem with change when done by professionals (343), but I'm against when people wanting to ruin play styles because they can't counter them.
"I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users."
There's not a weapon in the game that can be completely countered by smart decisions. How ever you can survive most boltshot situations by thinking quickly. Things like "I shouldn't turn that corner, I hear the boltshot charging." Or things like "I shouldn't chase that guy like an idiot, he has a bolt shot." save my life all the time.
"absolutely ridiculous range."
It's a close range weapon. I can back up with the thruster and be out of range for a one shot kill.
You also need to think about what you're doing. You're trying to FORCE people to change their playstyle because it includes a gun you can't counter. How would you like it if the even bigger noobs thought the DMR and Br were overpowered, and tried to force everyone to use assault rifles?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Al Capone111
Uses or relies on it?
And the majority of BLUE doesn't. So instead of one option that favors one army solely, how about we try this option which atleast tries to meet mid way. If it doesn't work, I am willing to bet my car that there will be no shortage of people pissing and moaning here on the forums.
Favors both sides? It destroys the playstyle of one side because the other can't handle it.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Things like "I shouldn't turn that corner, I hear the boltshot charging." Or things like "I shouldn't chase that guy like an idiot, he has a bolt shot." save my life all the time.
...
"absolutely ridiculous range."
It's a close range weapon. I can back up with the thruster and be out of range for a one shot kill.
...
Favors both sides? It destroys the playstyle of one side because the other can't handle it.
The Boltshot can beat Shotgun, Sword, Hamer, and Scattershot, because it has a longer range. I should not have to be in fear of a player's starting weapons when using a power weapon in close range.
And, as I said, it does not destroy anything. The weapon is still there, just not in overabundance.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
The Boltshot can beat Shotgun, Sword, Hamer, and Scattershot, because it has a longer range. I should not have to be in fear of a player's starting weapons when using a power weapon in close range.
And, as I said, it does not destroy anything. The weapon is still there, just not in overabundance.
Again, you're only going to get killed by the boltshot if you walk into it after it's charging. Fake them out. It makes a really loud noise.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Again, you're only going to get killed by the boltshot if you walk into it after it's charging. Fake them out. It makes a really loud noise.
I have only started using the Boltshot myself recently. I have had encounters where I spot a sword user sprinting toward me, and I have time to switch, charge, and kill them in 2 seconds or less, and they lunged.
You see, the advantage should be the other way around. If I hear a user charging his Boltshot to rush ME, I should still be able to use my Shotgun to off him first. It is a power weapon. I deserve to be able to act confidently. Instead, the Boltshot still wins, even when I am cautious, so I have to weave, dodge, run, etc. When I say "me", I refer to players in general.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
I have only started using the Boltshot myself recently. I have had encounters where I spot a sword user sprinting toward me, and I have time to switch, charge, and kill them in 2 seconds or less, and they lunged.
You see, the advantage should be the other way around. If I hear a user charging his Boltshot to rush ME, I should still be able to use my Shotgun to off him first. It is a power weapon. I deserve to be able to act confidently. Instead, the Boltshot still wins, even when I am cautious, so I have to weave, dodge, run, etc. When I say "me", I refer to players in general.
If you had the time to do that, you would have time to 5 shot him with a Br. And the boltshot is nothing compared to the shotgun. If you get killed by a boltshot while using the shotgun just take your halo 4 disc and throw it in a toaster oven. The shotgun does more damage than the scattershot and has no charge.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
And the boltshot is nothing compared to the shotgun. If you get killed by a boltshot while using the shotgun just take your halo 4 disc and throw it in a toaster oven. The shotgun does more damage than the scattershot and has no charge.
The Shotgun has a shorter range and only does more damage when you talk about the damage done outside each weapon's kill range.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
The Shotgun has a shorter range and only does more damage when you talk about the damage done outside each weapon's kill range.
When it's extremely easy to move out of the boltshots kill range, it's a big deal.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
When it's extremely easy to move out of the boltshots kill range, it's a big deal.
Easier to move out of the Shotgun's kill range, since it's shorter and narrower.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Half of these post are killing braincells everywhere.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Easier to move out of the Shotgun's kill range, since it's shorter and narrower.
It doesn't matter if you move out of its one hit kill range, it can fire 5 more shots.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
It takes more time to try and kill someone with a shotty at middle range then it does for someone to clip (pop your sheilds) with a Boltshot and switch to another weapon and finish the kill.
Ive got an idea to solve all of this. Remove all weapons but pistols, and make flat maps. Win.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
It doesn't matter if you move out of its one hit kill range, it can fire 5 more shots.
Doesn't get a chance to use it against a boltshot. If a shotgun user is right at very edge of a boltshot user's kill range, then he will take down shields while himself dying. No 5 more shots.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Doesn't get a chance to use it against a boltshot. If a shotgun user is right at very edge of a boltshot user's kill range, then he will take down shields while himself dying. No 5 more shots.
Lets settle this. You 1v1 me using a boltshot and I get the shotgun. Deal?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Biased experiment. You would get the Shotgun each time. It is not a loadout weapon.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Biased experiment. You would get the Shotgun each time. It is not a loadout weapon.
Each game has one life. You spawn with boltshot and I grab shotgun.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
You still want to start with the weapon. You clearly want them on an even playing field. That's what we intend to do, just in reverse. ;)
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
You still want to start with the weapon. You clearly want them on an even playing field. That's what we intend to do, just in reverse. ;)
Suggest an even playing field.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Suggest an even playing field.
Both weapons spawn on the map and are rewarded as part of ordnance drops.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Both weapons spawn on the map and are rewarded as part of ordnance drops.
One of those isn't a power weapon.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
One of those isn't a power weapon.
Who said anything about them both being power weapons?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Well I have to say I am completely Against this, for many reason.
However I do Agree with this
Quote:
Ordnance received more frequently (150 instead of 200 points)
Only because I was against it being raised in the first place. The Ordinance pretty much makes Ordinance useless to me, and I could live with that except you RUIN MY FIREPOWER class.
The worse part is the Compromise for the Boltshot solves none of the issues people complain about. If you put it on the map then the only people that wont have a Boltshot will be the people that were not very good with it to begin with. (the Easy Kills I call them) And the ones that do pick it up will be the ones that everyone complains about.
So in Reality all you have done is given Guzzie(or anyone else) an option to get a few long range kills with the Magnum BEFORE he picks up a Boltshot and goes to town. How does that solve anything, the only ones that wont use it are the Crap players(with a Boltshot) and you know the ones that like it have no problem dropping the magnum for it. I personally Dont use the Boltshot and I find it funny when others use is against me. I could side step shottys in Halo 3 what makes you think I am scare of a boltshot. Also a member of my Fireteam loves Hardlight Shield and he loves to make boltshot users kill themselves it is the funnest thing ever maybe some of you should try it out, no?
But please please I beg of you spot messing with Ordinance pick a Setting and dont ever touch it again, I am pretty certain you have heard of my Arguement about how you guys will never Balance things if you change them.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SanguineSpartan
Well I have to say I am completely Against this, for many reason.
However I do Agree with this
Only because I was against it being raised in the first place. The Ordinance pretty much makes Ordinance useless to me, and I could live with that except you RUIN MY FIREPOWER class.
The worse part is the Compromise for the Boltshot solves none of the issues people complain about. If you put it on the map then the only people that wont have a Boltshot will be the people that were not very good with it to begin with. (the Easy Kills I call them) And the ones that do pick it up will be the ones that everyone complains about.
So in Reality all you have done is given Guzzie(or anyone else) an option to get a few long range kills with the Magnum BEFORE he picks up a Boltshot and goes to town. How does that solve anything, the only ones that wont use it are the Crap players(with a Boltshot) and you know the ones that like it have no problem dropping the magnum for it. I personally Dont use the Boltshot and I find it funny when others use is against me. I could side step shottys in Halo 3 what makes you think I am scare of a boltshot. Also a member of my Fireteam loves Hardlight Shield and he loves to make boltshot users kill themselves it is the funnest thing ever maybe some of you should try it out, no?
But please please I beg of you spot messing with Ordinance pick a Setting and dont ever touch it again, I am pretty certain you have heard of my Arguement about how you guys will never Balance things if you change them.
Putting them on the map means you don't get them at spawn, and they have a respawn time - in other words, they are not unlimited.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Additionally, since the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol would be almost never used in the Ordnance, they will spawn on the map (not with 5 minute respawns, probably 30 seconds most of the time)
Yes like you can use all the ammo in 30 seconds
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SanguineSpartan
Yes like you can use all the ammo in 30 seconds
Well, if it doesn't change anything to you, then what difference does it make in your eyes?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds. It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it. So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeafOrangutan91
Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds. It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it. So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.
Okay.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Well, if it doesn't change anything to you, then what difference does it make in your eyes?
Because I get my Classes screwed with over NOTHING. How would it make you feel if I make you Spawn with a Storm Rifle just because I think the DMR/BR is unfair?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeafOrangutan91
Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two."
Excuse me?
Quote:
Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds.
I resent that.
Quote:
It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it.
I like how you have to combined all three of the other options in order to form the conclusion that the majority is against it, even though the actual majority is the ~44%. Or, if you combine the first two and the last two into two sets of "like" and "dislike", then the "like" still wins. BUT, you combined all three options. I wonder how you justify this.
Quote:
So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.
I don't see any civility in your whole post. You implied I am a fool and a bad player in the same paragraph.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
SanguineSpartan
Because I get my Classes screwed with over NOTHING. How would it make you feel if I make you Spawn with a Storm Rifle just because I think the DMR/BR is unfair?
I would deal with it the way I did in all the Halo games.
In Halo CE, I started with just a Plasma Pistol. I went and found a pistol.
In Halo 2, an SMG. I found a BR
In Halo 3, an AR. I found another BR.
In Reach, another AR. I found a DMR.
In this case, the weapon not spawned with is the Boltshot/Plasma Pistol, and those are being put where they can be found.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nicholas Sapien
Keep it civil
:)
No problem on this end.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeafOrangutan91
Spiderman, noone with any brains is going to say you're not absolutely right, but I've always followed one basic premise. "Arguing with a fool proves there are two." Jam's a nice guy, but some people hate the boltshot because they aren't good with it and cannot adapt their playstyles and nothing you say is going to change their minds. It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it. So just drop it right now. We might not always agree or even like certain members of this community, but we have to be nice and civil. So let it go and let the poll do its job.
Jam is a Pretty good player I have watched his games. And while I dis-agree with it, He was one of the only people that came up for a Compromise for the Boltshot situation.
But Jam the Problem is that I cant just pick up a BR or AR off the map like you can a BoltShot, So you go from a Boltshot being unfair issue to players having to change their play style majorly. That is what I am against, I cant just swap out my Magnum for a AR. The best I can do is spawn with a AR/Magnum and hope for the best.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DeafOrangutan91
It's already been settled that the majority of people are not in love with Myth's idea, since more people want the idea changed or scrapped than like it.
Do you just ignore all polls? -_-
Anyway, I just hope the title update next month will severely nerf the Boltshot and add better Ordnance options so everyone can quit their bitching.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SanguineSpartan
Jam is a Pretty good player I have watched his games. And while I dis agree with it, He was one of the only people that came up for a Compromise for the Boltshot situation.
But Jam the Problem is that I cant just pick up a BR or AR off the map like you can a BoltShot, So you go from a Boltshot being unfair issue to players having to change their play style majorly. That is what I am against, I cant just swap out my Magnum for a AR. The best I can do is spawn with a AR/Magnum and hope for the best.
The BR, AR and DMR are among the most common primary weapons. Yes, I know that this affects Firepower loadouts, but it simply isn't nearly as effective towards them. Primary weapons are everywhere. Making the Magnum a secondary doesn't eliminate the primary weapon choice, so even though you don't get two, you still get one, and that isn't as big an effect. My only advice is to use a different perk than Firepower, and loot weapons off enemies.
BTW, I appreciate the support and the fact that your response is not limited to arguing over the Boltshot itself, but also discussing ramifications of changing ordnance. I also am glad to see that such a post comes from a REDD, because arguing so hotly with REDDs makes this feel like an "us vs. you". I don't want that. I will defend my idea, of course, from all opposition. Ask Silversleek. He is in my own Squad, is okay about the change, but still will argue my head off about the Boltshot.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KazuhLLL
Do you just ignore all polls? -_-
No, he's right. Only 44.12 % want to get rid of it.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
I had to say, I gave the idea some thought and it just mangles up too much. If the enemy has you pressed into your base, maybe you can't make it out to Plasma Pistol spawn, or maybe you'll need multiple Plasma Pistols to take out vehicles. Or maybe when youre rushing the Mantis, your Plasma Pistol guy gets sniped so he can't turn it off and then all of you get killed, when you each could have been sporting one. Plus, it does mess up FirePower, I hadn't thought of that. Overall, I don't think the need to remove the Boltshot is too large over the need to change gameplay dynamics from the core of Halo 4.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
No, he's right. Only 44.12 % want to get rid of it.
Which is a higher percentage than all other choices. That is a majority. Majority does not mean higher than 50%, it means the one with the most votes.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
No, he's right. Only 44.12 % want to get rid of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
I like how you have to combined all three of the other options in order to form the conclusion that the majority is against it, even though the actual majority is the ~44%. Or, if you combine the first two and the last two into two sets of "like" and "dislike", then the "like" still wins. BUT, you combined all three options. I wonder how you justify this.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Which is a higher percentage than all other choices. That is a majority. Majority does not mean higher than 50%, it means the one with the most votes.
Too bad the sample size is too small.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VerbotenDonkey
I had to say, I gave the idea some thought and it just mangles up too much. If the enemy has you pressed into your base, maybe you can't make it out to Plasma Pistol spawn, or maybe you'll need multiple Plasma Pistols to take out vehicles. Or maybe when youre rushing the Mantis, your Plasma Pistol guy gets sniped so he can't turn it off and then all of you get killed, when you each could have been sporting one. Plus, it does mess up FirePower, I hadn't thought of that. Overall, I don't think the need to remove the Boltshot is too large over the need to change gameplay dynamics from the core of Halo 4.
That is the thing. Players rely too much on the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol. When a team has got all the vehicles or has pushed you back to your base, they earned that. They outplayed and therefore gained an advantage that should not be so easily overcome. My goal with this idea is that more powerful outside equipment not be ruined by overpowered starting equipment, while also making that powerful outside equipment more rare and valuable to the game.
That is why I want Ordnance drops to be only medium-grade, Map Ordnance to be high-grade, Map Ordnance and Vehicles to have lengthy respawn timers, and finally the overpowered starting equipment made readily available but not automatic.
- - - Updated - - -
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Too bad the sample size is too small.
If that's how you feel, don't cite the statistic as fact.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Too bad the sample size is too small.
Apparently the sample size of US voters is often too small as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ar_vote_margin. >.>
EDIT: Just because the majority is less than 50% doesn't mean that the data is irrelevant.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
That is the thing. Players rely too much on the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol. When a team has got all the vehicles or has pushed you back to your base, they earned that. They outplayed and therefore gained an advantage that should not be so easily overcome. My goal with this idea is that more powerful outside equipment not be ruined by overpowered starting equipment, while also making that powerful outside equipment more rare and valuable to the game.
However, it's not a reliance IF the whole point of having the Plasma Pistol in the loadouts to begin with is because vehicles have received a buff AND there are certain perks that counter the Plasma Pistol. This is a mechanic that 343 has added into the game. It isn't a reliance so much more as a counter/tactic.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Yeah you have to wait a day or two before you can start talking about it like a sure thing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
KazuhLLL
Has nothing to do with this.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VerbotenDonkey
However, it's not a reliance IF the whole point of having the Plasma Pistol in the loadouts to begin with is because vehicles have received a buff AND there are certain perks that counter the Plasma Pistol. This is a mechanic that 343 has added into the game. It isn't a reliance so much more as a counter/tactic.
But it's a free counter/tactic, while vehicles and power weapons must be earned. That seems unfair. If my team dominated and gained that kind of control, then why must we be immediately killed by players who disable our vehicles and boltshotted for stealing their flag? I wouldn't have a problem with players doing those things if they at least had to go somewhere in their own base to PICK UP a BS or PP. But getting one free for dying? Meh.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
BS and PP will most likely be placed at each teams base/main spawn with maybe one more in a neutral location (I would imagine). At thirty second respawn time you really can't complain. You (REDDS mostly) people are shutting this down without even giving it a try. That is why nothing ever gets done in this damn community.
No matter what HC does people will bitch. So your options are really as follows:
1. Deal with it
2. Leave
3. Actually propose a idea that helps.
Take your pick.
And here I will start the typical vet style rant: You new members really can't say to much. You haven't been here long enough for your voice to hold ANY weight in community affairs (army and squad affairs you might have some weight). Put in your time like the rest of us have, bite the bullet for a while, and then people will start listening to you. *End vet rant*
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
But it's a free counter/tactic, while vehicles and power weapons must be earned. That seems unfair. If my team dominated and gained that kind of control, then why must we be immediately killed by players who disable our vehicles and boltshotted for stealing their flag? I wouldn't have a problem with players doing those things if they at least had to go somewhere in their own base to PICK UP a BS or PP. But getting one free for dying? Meh.
Lets make it where you have to pick up DMRs and Brs because they have a huge advantage over the assault rifle.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Lets make it where you have to pick up DMRs and Brs because they have a huge advantage over the assault rifle.
Agreed. We can all start with AR/Magnum/Frags, Halo 3 style. Precision weapons at each base and laid out around the map.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
If you earn the Tank and then camp with your back to the wall with a clear line of sight in both directions, it's nearly impossible for a regular loadout group of players to take you out. Only way is to plasma pistol and turn you off so you can take the precious seconds to close the gap instead of it being an open field of hey lets just shell the heck of you. Or do continued passes with the Gauss/Banshee.
The Wheelman perk makes the Plasma Pistol effect last about a second anyway. So given if we were to shorten the amount of usable Plasma Pistols anyway by making it map specific, and the fact that weapons despawn too fast anyway, it gives vehicle users a huuge advantage, when they were buffed in the first place with the fact in mind that if you wanted to counter them, you should add plasma pistols to your loadout.
If you're a smart driver, it's hard enough for a plasma pistol to get at you anyway. Work with your Team to get enemies distracted first before making your passes. Play conservatively.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Al Capone111
And here I will start the typical vet style rant: You new members really can't say to much. You haven't been here long enough for your voice to hold ANY weight in community affairs (army and squad affairs you might have some weight). Put in your time like the rest of us have, bite the bullet for a while, and then people will start listening to you. *End vet rant*
Everyone's voice has weight. In your case then, lets not listen to Jam because he's too new? So this idea is out now?
Everyone is considered.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
BS and PP will most likely be placed at each teams base/main spawn with maybe one more in a neutral location (I would imagine). At thirty second respawn time you really can't complain. You (REDDS mostly) people are shutting this down without even giving it a try. That is why nothing ever gets done in this damn community.
No matter what HC does people will bitch. So your options are really as follows:
1. Deal with it
2. Leave
3. Actually propose a idea that helps.
Take your pick.
And here I will start the typical vet style rant: You new members really can't say to much. You haven't been here long enough for your voice to hold ANY weight in community affairs (army and squad affairs you might have some weight). Put in your time like the rest of us have, bite the bullet for a while, and then people will start listening to you. *End vet rant*
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs5/2517789_o.gif
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Agreed. We can all start with AR/Magnum/Frags, Halo 3 style. Precision weapons at each base and laid out around the map.
No, no frags. That promotes grenade spamming. Lets make it where you only start with a PP, and the weapons literally cover the maps floor. However there would be trip mines around power weapons. You know what, fuck it. Lets make it no weapons except for PP. Not even any on the map. Now that would be a true test of skill, and no one will bitch about the weapons they can't deal with. Unless you have problems with PPs....
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VerbotenDonkey
If you earn the Tank and then camp with your back to the wall with a clear line of sight in both directions, it's nearly impossible for a regular loadout group of players to take you out. Only way is to plasma pistol and turn you off so you can take the precious seconds to close the gap instead of it being an open field of hey lets just shell the heck of you.
Okay, I am not stopping you from doing this. Plasma Pistol will be in your base. If the enemy tank is backed into a corner, that means NOT being at your base. It should not be difficult acquiring it. The rest is on you. Also, sustained precision weapon fire will wreck vehicles.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VerbotenDonkey
Everyone's voice has weight. In your case then, lets not listen to Jam because he's too new? So this idea is out now?
Everyone is considered.
As in people coming in here for a few weeks thinking they know how to fix everything and only their idea is right. Cause obviously someone who has been in FC for 5 years knows nothing about how to work a warsim
And if you and your team can't take a few seconds to team shot a tank or any vehicle, then your doing it wrong and need to rethink your strategy.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
Has nothing to do with this.
I was simply pointing out the fallacies of your argument. The point was that you are saying the sample size is "too small" because majority has less than 50%, yet the popular vote of US presidents are often under 50% majority, with over 200+ million people in that poll.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
No, no frags. That promotes grenade spamming. Lets make it where you only start with a PP, and the weapons literally cover the maps floor. However there would be trip mines around power weapons. You know what, fuck it. Lets make it no weapons except for PP. Not even any on the map. Now that would be a true test of skill, and no one will bitch about the weapons they can't deal with. Unless you have problems with PPs....
You imply that removing the Boltshot from starting loadouts is the beginning of the downhill slope to the point where we use flat maps and bare fisticuffs? If so, I don't even have to refute your logic to know you're wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
KazuhLLL
I was simply pointing out the fallacies of your argument. The point was that you are saying the sample size is "too small" because majority has less than 50%, yet the popular vote of US presidents are often under 50% majority, with over 200+ million people in that poll.
Kaz, sample size does not refer to the percentage a vote gets. It refers to the amount of voters. Your statement still fits, in a way, in that picking sample size is a hotly debated and never surefire deal in statistical gathering, it's just not the conclusion you made.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
That is the thing. Players rely too much on the Boltshot and Plasma Pistol. When a team has got all the vehicles or has pushed you back to your base, they
Quote:
earned that. They outplayed and therefore gained an advantage that should not be so easily overcome. My goal with this idea is that more powerful outside equipment not be ruined by overpowered starting equipment, while also making that powerful outside equipment more rare and valuable to the game.
Yeah true test of skill, who can walk out side their base first. I mean come one has anyone here had to Fight over a Vehicle. Half the time they never Spawned. *cough* Mantis on Meltdown *cough*
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KazuhLLL
I was simply pointing out the fallacies of your argument. The point was that you are saying the sample size is "too small" because majority has less than 50%, yet the popular vote of US presidents are often under 50% majority, with over 200+ million people in that poll.
I was talking about the sample size of this whole poll.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Ok I'm ending half of this thread right now, since some of what is going on is valuable opinions for data, but the other half is just penis comparison.
We are voting based on our own preference. Whatever argument you may have for or against this, the boltshot, or ordinances is probably 100% correct. That means you, spider, jam, and everyone else talking a lot about whether the boltshot, ordinances, or anything discussed here is "good" or "bad", is right.
Truth is, the boltshot/ordinances are not "good" or "bad", it is how people perceive it. No one is convincing anyone here to think they way they are. So please, if you've posted 20+ times trying to argue for your point, stop.
This is a vote on preference. On what people find fun. As such, different things make different people feel happy in the pants when it comes to halo, so vote, and leave your peace unless you truly have valuable input for decision making.
This poll does not weigh the entire community, but it does give us a sample.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
VerbotenDonkey
If you earn the Tank and then camp with your back to the wall with a clear line of sight in both directions, it's nearly impossible for a regular loadout group of players to take you out. Only way is to plasma pistol and turn you off so you can take the precious seconds to close the gap instead of it being an open field of hey lets just shell the heck of you. Or do continued passes with the Gauss/Banshee.
The Wheelman perk makes the Plasma Pistol effect last about a second anyway. So given if we were to shorten the amount of usable Plasma Pistols anyway by making it map specific, and the fact that weapons despawn too fast anyway, it gives vehicle users a huuge advantage, when they were buffed in the first place with the fact in mind that if you wanted to counter them, you should add plasma pistols to your loadout.
If you're a smart driver, it's hard enough for a plasma pistol to get at you anyway. Work with your Team to get enemies distracted first before making your passes. Play conservatively.
Okay, here's a proposed solution to that aspect: everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SanguineSpartan
Yeah true test of skill, who can walk out side their base first. I mean come one has anyone here had to Fight over a Vehicle. Half the time they never Spawned. *cough* Mantis on Meltdown *cough*[/I]
Matchmaking on Excile it crazy in BTB. The Tank and Gausshog typically only last the first minute on average from what ive seen. And that is mostly due to team shotting with the DMR and frags/plasmas. Not so much PP or power weapons. But that is just my observation.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Okay, I am not stopping you from doing this. Plasma Pistol will be in your base. If the enemy tank is backed into a corner, that means NOT being at your base. It should not be difficult acquiring it. The rest is on you. Also, sustained precision weapon fire will wreck vehicles.
What I'm saying is, vehicles have been given a severe buff to where they are nigh overpowered without additional help. Using the right perks, you can go on rampages without being taken out, and that's even WITH a Team that has Plasma Pistols on spawn. Having to go grab one out of your base not only takes up precious time, but limits how many people can have one, not to mention how easy it is to be taken out and then have your team being stuck as their only means of EMPing a vehicle is killed. Meanwhile, the overpowered vehicles in the back continue to camp key points.
And good luck with a Mantis with Wheelman perk. Even with sustained fire. As long as he has a good Team backing him up, you won't get near him.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
JamCliche
You imply that removing the Boltshot from starting loadouts is the beginning of the downhill slope to the point where we use flat maps and bare fisticuffs? If so, I don't even have to refute your logic to know you're wrong.
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Kaz, sample size does not refer to the percentage a vote gets. It refers to the amount of voters. Your statement still fits, in a way, in that picking sample size is a hotly debated and never surefire deal in statistical gathering, it's just not the conclusion you made.
You're wrong. It went from Boltshot>DMR>Br. As any basic math class will tell you, the pattern will continue and eventually we won't be able to do anything but stare at our opponents and think angry thoughts.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
SanguineSpartan
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Yeah true test of skill, who can walk out side their base first. I mean come one has anyone here had to Fight over a Vehicle. Half the time they never Spawned. *cough* Mantis on Meltdown *cough*
Indeed, a race to an item of value IS a skill-battle. That is the whole point of map control, so you can maintain power over powerful items and gain more power, etc. etc. win. If two enemies get to one thing at the same time, bad shit goes down. Two guys fighting for rocket? Firefight, winner gets rockets. Two players go for tank? One guy gets in, other guy boards and grenades him, meaning no one gets it.
To gain control of neutral weapons and hold onto them takes skill and teamwork.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
Al Capone111
Matchmaking on Excile it crazy in BTB. The Tank and Gausshog typically only last the first minute on average from what ive seen. And that is mostly due to team shotting with the DMR and frags/plasmas. Not so much PP or power weapons. But that is just my observation.
Only way I die in a Tank is if I get EMP'd on Exile. Played for a good hour and a half tonight, ask MDM. :P Only way they can take me out is if they EMP me to take out my main gun.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
You're wrong. It went from Boltshot>DMR>Br. As any basic math class will tell you, the pattern will continue and eventually we won't be able to do anything but stare at our opponents and think angry thoughts.
https://my.psychologytoday.com/files...re%20queen.jpg
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
THExSPIDERMAN
You're wrong. It went from Boltshot>DMR>Br. As any basic math class will tell you, the pattern will continue and eventually we won't be able to do anything but stare at our opponents and think angry thoughts.
Basic math class for what? How fast we switch from weekly battles to playing Prison Guard roleplay on crappy maps? I assure you, the math will be complicated indeed. You're argument is so fallible, I dare to say you have given up. Appealing to ridicule and drawing a conclusion from nothing?
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Originally Posted by
Al Capone111
Al, I ask that you tone it down.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Basic math class for what? How fast we switch from weekly battles to playing Prison Guard roleplay on crappy maps? I assure you, the math will be complicated indeed. You're argument is so fallible, I dare to say you have given up. Appealing to ridicule and drawing a conclusion from nothing?
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Al, I ask that you tone it down.
Did your math class not teach you patterns? And saying fallible and refute doesn't mean you win the argument. You would fit in with those kids on reddit who try so hard to seem smarter than they are. I mean this conversation is about a god damn video game.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Kaz, sample size does not refer to the percentage a vote gets. It refers to the amount of voters. Your statement still fits, in a way, in that picking sample size is a hotly debated and never surefire deal in statistical gathering, it's just not the conclusion you made.
Ah, so it would seem. I was trying to respond to his sample size thing and his issues on majority while also playing Halo and my thoughts got a bit crossed xD
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Originally Posted by
VerbotenDonkey
Only way I die in a Tank is if I get EMP'd on Exile. Played for a good hour and a half tonight, ask MDM. :P Only way they can take me out is if they EMP me to take out my main gun.
Since apparently the "penis comparison" covered up my proposed solution to this current debate, I'll say it again: how about everyone start with Magnum on regular gametypes and PP on Heavy gametypes?
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
Mythonian if you are going to test this I would like to be there, I am on leave so it wont matter if I miss practice.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
IMO the boltshot is the dumbest weapon ever to be added to a Halo game. I hate it with a passion, but that doesn't mean I don't use it. And it certainly doesn't mean I'm not good with it. If you hate it and refuse to use it to counter other people with it...well then that's your loss I guess. Prome-Vision would probably save your life quite a few times from it. Or just realizing that everyone probably has one when they are around a corner. And really thats how it is in this game anyway. With ordnance you never know if someone has a shotty or some crazy weapon around the corner, so it's a good rule of thumb to not just rush in blindly anyway. So for the record: Fuck the boltshot, but it is a part of the game and i vote not to ban it. But my xbox is broken so who the hell cares what i think anyway :)
Edit: i guess this isn't to "ban" it. so i vote not to mess with it.
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Re: Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise
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Originally Posted by
JamCliche
Al, I ask that you tone it down.
You didn't say please. So no.
But for the sake of not being a smartass anymore, fine I will "tone it down". Though you truly haven't seen me at my best.
We go through this everytime we switch to a new game. Same shit happened in Reach. Does everyone remember Armorlock and how broken it was?
I have atleast offered some helpful insight on this thread. Not just pissing and moaning. We do need to fix the issues here. That much is obvious. But everyone sitting here complaining isn't solving shit. Test this. Tomorrow or this Sunday. Then get feedback. Is it really that hard to do?