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  1. #11
    Pangolin Wrangler KazuhLLL's Avatar
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    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    I'm not sure where people get the idea that we've been "putting off" problems while we wait for MCC to drop. Pretty much this entire war has been WC trying to fix problems, then fixing the problems that arise from the first fix, etc, etc. (God I hate debugging.)

    Legacy has gone from REDD to BLUE, back to REDD, then back again to BLUE trying to keep up with numbers/skill issues. This war has probably seen the most squad/member transfers of any other war in recent memory.

    MCC won't magically fix anything just because it exists, but the likely boost of recruits will help to get fresh people and ideas back into the community. That alone will be great, but the added numbers have many other added benefits. Bootcamps will be more appealing when run with multiple recruits. Squads at both ends of the skill spectrum will have more potential opponents to be matched against, which should make matchups closer (so long as all our recruits aren't of one particular skill-level). Also any squad transfers should be a bit easier to balance since they wouldn't be such a relatively large percentage of our population.

    There are probably other benefits of having a "new" game that I just can't think of offhand. But my point is that while there's plenty of reason to look forward to MCC, that doesn't mean that anyone is (or should be) giving up now. If anything, the positive attitude moving into the next game is something we should hold on to, since it's that kind of optimism that motivates people into doing the necessary work to actually take advantage of the increased activity.

    TL;DR: MCC isn't a magical solution, simply a catalyst. It's everyone's work and outlook that will determine how effective it becomes.

  2. #12

    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    Prepare thyself.

    FC is barely surviving right now; everybody knows it.
    FC has been much worse off. The notion that we're a dying dog with 3 legs is mostly said by either those who joined during the massive influx of recruits we got at the beginning of Halo 4, or by those from way back when who see a less militarized community as a less successful one.

    But we have hope. Everybody keeps saying "Let's just wait for MCC" or "Everything will be better with more people come MCC."

    Are those "excuses" valid?

    If you are in the community right now, you must care about the wellbeing of the community as a whole.
    Agree, sort of. The "I'll wait till MCC" is common, happened in reach with people waiting until Halo 4. 9 times out of 10 it's just an excuse to leave with a timeline. Not that it's necessarily bad, but trying to imply that the community will fundamentally change due to a new game's release is absurd.

    Otherwise why would you stick around for unbalanced match ups and unbalanced armies?

    If you don't believe me that the match ups aren't balanced, look at the last 2 weeks of battle nights. Of the 50+ games played, only 9 had score difference of less than 10%. A third of the games played had the winning team more than double the losing teams score. Those types of matches aren't fun for anybody.

    People aren't playing for the fun, exciting and close battles. We are playing because we don't want the community to die.

    Here is the major problem:

    If we can't balance armies and have a fantastic war when the community is composed entirely of people with a deep desire for a successful and thriving community how can we expect things to get better when we have tons of new recruits who couldn't care less if Forerunner Conflict lives or dies?

    I don't know what the solution is to fixing this war, and I doubt anyone person does otherwise they probably would have said something by now.

    Before everything else, the community needs to be fun. Ideally all matches would be close and competitive, but I think if we had even 50% of the matches be competitive everybody would be happy.
    That's debatable. One of the most common ailments this community has, is that people focus way too much on their battle night success. FC, this community, is about a lot more than showing up on Sunday and expecting close games. One of our jobs as leaders of this community is to provide everyone with a plethora of activities, events, and general "content" for members to be a part of. Of course battle nights are our main act, but it should in no way be anyone's end-all deciding factor on if they're enjoying FC itself as a community.

    We have side-wars, squad events, practices, forum games, easter eggs on the website, discussions, events on other games, chats, tournaments, competitions of any sort, LARP, forum RP, and yes of course battle nights.

    Not to get too in depth as to the logistics of "why", because it would open up a huge can of worms that no one well ever agree with, but the wars will never be 100% even, squads will never be 100% equal in skill, there will always be a diverse member-base for which we rely and survive on, and in many ways that diversity is the key to our success. To assume we can create such an artificial landscape, and to expect such a thing from those leading the community is preposterous and would only be remotely possible in a situation where War Directors and/or FMs are given ultimate control on master designing squad makeup and the like.

    You don't go into matchmaking and always find people 100% the same skill as you, so you can't expect the same from a community that accepts anyone regardless of skill. If you're REALLY getting angry about losing halo games on battle night, priorities need to be re-aligned. No one inherently likes losing, but assuming that because someone's losing there's a fundamental problem in leadership and community health is not looking at what we truly are.

    Yes, infusing some lower skilled squads with some higher skilled members/recruits would be a nice change, and when squads don't make a full team mixing units of opposite skill levels to equal things out would be an even better boon. Actually, that would help a lot. But there's zero room for expecting 50% or more of the games we play to have a miniscule 10% score difference, because there's zero room to actually make something like that possible.



    I doubt anybody knows the entire picture about what is going on in every squad and both armies. We need teamwork and cooperation to fix not just the balancing issues, but all of the minor issues people might have with each other. It will take a lot of work, but everybody here is passionate about the success of the community. If we can't get this war back on track the entire community could very well collapse when we have an influx of people who simply don't know the history or care about the proud past we have in Forerunner Conflict.
    Mythonian, myself, and (sorta) phoenix keep our eyes on the prize on a constant basis. There's a plethora of forces that push and pull things like this, and of course no one knows the entire picture 100%, that's impossible. But those who are active in War Council do what we can. Unfortunately, perfection is never an option. Nor has it ever been accomplished.




    Squads are going to need to be ranked skill wise freely be switched to what ever army needs them more.
    We'd have to measure how willing we are to force people to a place they don't want to be just for master design, a master design that may or may not work in our favor. As a community we need to be sensitive to everyone's wants and desires.

    New squads also need to be formed right as MCC starts. Some officers, even if its only and CO and maybe and XO need to start from scratch to start recruiting and adding to their squad. We need blood and new squads to build off of, as well as continuing to add to existing squads.
    This should be assumed, growth is survival. There will always be turnover that needs replaced.

    Leadership positions in the whole army will need to be touched. Make sure those in HC, FLAG, ect are fit for the job. Also if one army is in need of leaders some might volunteer to head across to bolster the ranks.
    One of the hardest things about getting to the end of a game like this is finding willing leaders to take up the mantle and grow the community. As interest in a game dies out, so too does the motivation of potential leaders.

    This ends up going one of two ways. Either more people are given leadership titles to over-saturate leadership positions, so that there's enough firepower in terms of leadership to survive, though the quality of each tends to go down and many inexperienced people are given spots. Also, it lowers the general value of having an officer position.

    OR, you simply deal with less leaders, putting a lot of the weight on a lone few people with its own host of obvious problems. We can see both of these situations with both our current armies, and though I have my own bias as to which is the lesser of two evils, the general theme is that we have to put value back into leadership positions, mentor new leaders, and have those with experience step up in general.

    Even those who do step up in situations like we're in right now usually aren't as enthused as they could be.




    What needs to happen to, supposedly "fix" things:
    1. Stop worrying about winning. No, I'm not talking about the competitive wanting to win too much, I'm talking about the casuals who for some reason can't find a way to have fun in a community of MANY MANY different activities because they lost 2-3 games on a battle night. WHEN POSSIBLE, mix low and high skilled people to counter it out, but really if you're losing games come up with something non-traditional to try. Please stop asking for a tier system, please stop hating another squad because they're doing well and winning a lot, and please stop demanding change if your squad doesn't get as many wins as you think they should on a battle night.

    2. Enthused leaders, and enthused members wanting to be leaders. So long as no one wants any leadership position, those positions will continue to be filled with inexperienced or unmotivated individuals just serving as a placeholder, doing the job minimum to get the community by. A rock could become a HC member in 2 months if they spent 30 minutes a day on something FC related 5 days a week.

    3. A push towards an atmosphere of growth everywhere. We should all be aiding one another, allowing each individual squad the chance to grow themselves and have proper leaders, regardless of army lines. A squad getting close to death is something needing addressed frickin' immediately.

    4. Finally, stop acting like FC is a goddamn cesspool for poor leadership and mismanagement. FC is what it has been for a long ass time, we wont change what we fundamentally are ANYTIME soon, definitely not before Halo 5. For gods sakes, people have no problem mentioning that Myth didn't make this week's maps until Friday, but no one has any inclination to see the fact that the guy donated $150+ on our fucking anniversary event for prizes for everyone.

    We will never go anywhere, ANYWHERE, so long as everyone thinks of FC as a shitty place to be, and sees leadership as the fucking anti-christ. Productive thinking, productive action. There are small things to change, but FC being what system FC is, there's no reason to change the general formula that got all of you here in the first place.

    The "Holy shit holy shit everything is falling apart!" notion is completely false and is the leading cause of our downfall.

    As for actual plans for MCC, anyone can contact myself or Myth on things that are in the works, on hold, and in the thought process.
    Last edited by Anarchy; 08-24-2014 at 03:20 PM.



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  3. #13
    Senior Citizen Silko's Avatar
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    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchy View Post
    Prepare thyself.



    FC has been much worse off. The notion that we're a dying dog with 3 legs is mostly said by either those who joined during the massive influx of recruits we got at the beginning of Halo 4, or by those from way back when who see a less militarized community as a less successful one.



    Agree, sort of. The "I'll wait till MCC" is common, happened in reach with people waiting until Halo 4. 9 times out of 10 it's just an excuse to leave with a timeline. Not that it's necessarily bad, but trying to imply that the community will fundamentally change due to a new game's release is absurd.



    That's debatable. One of the most common ailments this community has, is that people focus way too much on their battle night success. FC, this community, is about a lot more than showing up on Sunday and expecting close games. One of our jobs as leaders of this community is to provide everyone with a plethora of activities, events, and general "content" for members to be a part of. Of course battle nights are our main act, but it should in no way be anyone's end-all deciding factor on if they're enjoying FC itself as a community.

    We have side-wars, squad events, practices, forum games, easter eggs on the website, discussions, events on other games, chats, tournaments, competitions of any sort, LARP, forum RP, and yes of course battle nights.

    Not to get too in depth as to the logistics of "why", because it would open up a huge can of worms that no one well ever agree with, but the wars will never be 100% even, squads will never be 100% equal in skill, there will always be a diverse member-base for which we rely and survive on, and in many ways that diversity is the key to our success. To assume we can create such an artificial landscape, and to expect such a thing from those leading the community is preposterous and would only be remotely possible in a situation where War Directors and/or FMs are given ultimate control on master designing squad makeup and the like.

    You don't go into matchmaking and always find people 100% the same skill as you, so you can't expect the same from a community that accepts anyone regardless of skill. If you're REALLY getting angry about losing halo games on battle night, priorities need to be re-aligned. No one inherently likes losing, but assuming that because someone's losing there's a fundamental problem in leadership and community health is not looking at what we truly are.

    Yes, infusing some lower skilled squads with some higher skilled members/recruits would be a nice change, and when squads don't make a full team mixing units of opposite skill levels to equal things out would be an even better boon. Actually, that would help a lot. But there's zero room for expecting 50% or more of the games we play to have a miniscule 10% score difference, because there's zero room to actually make something like that possible.





    Mythonian, myself, and (sorta) phoenix keep our eyes on the prize on a constant basis. There's a plethora of forces that push and pull things like this, and of course no one knows the entire picture 100%, that's impossible. But those who are active in War Council do what we can. Unfortunately, perfection is never an option. Nor has it ever been accomplished.






    We'd have to measure how willing we are to force people to a place they don't want to be just for master design, a master design that may or may not work in our favor. As a community we need to be sensitive to everyone's wants and desires.



    This should be assumed, growth is survival. There will always be turnover that needs replaced.



    One of the hardest things about getting to the end of a game like this is finding willing leaders to take up the mantle and grow the community. As interest in a game dies out, so too does the motivation of potential leaders.

    This ends up going one of two ways. Either more people are given leadership titles to over-saturate leadership positions, so that there's enough firepower in terms of leadership to survive, though the quality of each tends to go down and many inexperienced people are given spots. Also, it lowers the general value of having an officer position.

    OR, you simply deal with less leaders, putting a lot of the weight on a lone few people with its own host of obvious problems. We can see both of these situations with both our current armies, and though I have my own bias as to which is the lesser of two evils, the general theme is that we have to put value back into leadership positions, mentor new leaders, and have those with experience step up in general.

    Even those who do step up in situations like we're in right now usually aren't as enthused as they could be.




    What needs to happen to, supposedly "fix" things:
    1. Stop worrying about winning. No, I'm not talking about the competitive wanting to win too much, I'm talking about the casuals who for some reason can't find a way to have fun in a community of MANY MANY different activities because they lost 2-3 games on a battle night. WHEN POSSIBLE, mix low and high skilled people to counter it out, but really if you're losing games come up with something non-traditional to try. Please stop asking for a tier system, please stop hating another squad because they're doing well and winning a lot, and please stop demanding change if your squad doesn't get as many wins as you think they should on a battle night.

    2. Enthused leaders, and enthused members wanting to be leaders. So long as no one wants any leadership position, those positions will continue to be filled with inexperienced or unmotivated individuals just serving as a placeholder, doing the job minimum to get the community by. A rock could become a HC member in 2 months if they spent 30 minutes a day on something FC related 5 days a week.

    3. A push towards an atmosphere of growth everywhere. We should all be aiding one another, allowing each individual squad the chance to grow themselves and have proper leaders, regardless of army lines. A squad getting close to death is something needing addressed frickin' immediately.

    4. Finally, stop acting like FC is a goddamn cesspool for poor leadership and mismanagement. FC is what it has been for a long ass time, we wont change what we fundamentally are ANYTIME soon, definitely not before Halo 5. For gods sakes, people have no problem mentioning that Myth didn't make this week's maps until Friday, but no one has any inclination to see the fact that the guy donated $150+ on our fucking anniversary event for prizes for everyone.

    We will never go anywhere, ANYWHERE, so long as everyone thinks of FC as a shitty place to be, and sees leadership as the fucking anti-christ. Productive thinking, productive action. There are small things to change, but FC being what system FC is, there's no reason to change the general formula that got all of you here in the first place.

    The "Holy shit holy shit everything is falling apart!" notion is completely false and is the leading cause of our downfall.

    As for actual plans for MCC, anyone can contact myself or Myth on things that are in the works, on hold, and in the thought process.

    REDD or BLUE Resistance comes through!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythonian View Post
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  4. #14

    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    I for one read all of Anarchy's post, Silko. :P

    Sometimes I dislike Anarchy. Sometimes I like Anarchy.
    Right now, the latter is true. Good post, and I am basically in agreement with everything you said.
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  5. #15

    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    One thing I've heard about the Master Chief Collection is that the maps from each game are designed to play like they do from their respective games (ie Guardian will play just like it did in Halo 3, instead of a remastered map with Halo 4 gameplay mechanics). Now it that's true I'm not sure how that's going to effect future wars.
    "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thy own understanding. And in all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths!"
    -Proverbs 3:5,6

  6. #16
    Senior Citizen Silko's Avatar
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    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    Quote Originally Posted by Project X A02 View Post
    One thing I've heard about the Master Chief Collection is that the maps from each game are designed to play like they do from their respective games (ie Guardian will play just like it did in Halo 3, instead of a remastered map with Halo 4 gameplay mechanics). Now it that's true I'm not sure how that's going to effect future wars.
    It will effect in minor ways really. Some squads will be better at some Halo games then others. It will also effect the war map. That depends on how the WDs and WC wish to do the war map. We can do it the current way and put Halos 1-4 maps in it. We could do what Kaz suggested. We do can what I suggested. All depends on the WD/WC which will reveal what they wish to do when they are ready.

    REDD or BLUE Resistance comes through!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythonian View Post
    Silko isn't an innate troublemaker, and doesn't intentionally break the rules.
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  7. #17

    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    i'll be back for mcc if we're playing on the one, now that i'm settled in my new place and got a steady job. if it's on the 360, sadly i can't join you.
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  8. #18
    Always On Watch EagleOne's Avatar
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    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    Recruiting players from twitch is easy. Join me. Lots still playing Halo 3 and Halo 2 who can't wait for MCC.

    Eagle out.
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    Strong enough to do what you've never done in your life. Can you be
    strong enough to allow yourself to be... Can you just be human?"



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  9. #19
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    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    I agree with a good portion of what Anarchy has said is the solution, with only a few minor disagreements as to his ideology. So, instead of focusing on bashing those and being unproductive, I'll simply say now that I am back, I am here to help however I can; just let me know what needs to be done (hard to know myself as a Lower Enlisted lol). But, I would like to draw attention to one thing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchy View Post
    who see a less militarized community as a less successful one.
    Now, I'm not a vet by any means. But I have always seen this as true. On the grounds of principle really. We call ourselves a WARSIM. It is a huge aspect of what defined us as a community and the reason for a lot of people signing up. They didn't join because we were like a clan; they joined because we offered something different than that whole experience. At this point, we have become so disconnected from the WARSIM aspect that we might as well start calling battles clan days and list squads as clans.

    Point is, if we are going to bill ourselves as something, we are unsuccessful if we don't deliver. I don't feel that MCC is a cure all; the influx of members will help, but like Anarchy said, we need to start thinking positively and get shit done if we want to see change. But I do hope that as FC progresses and grows we can return to what set us apart. We can get back to actually following through with what we promise.




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  10. #20
    Senior Citizen Silko's Avatar
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    Re: Why MCC Will Hurt FC

    Quote Originally Posted by Toast78901 View Post
    Now, I'm not a vet by any means. But I have always seen this as true. On the grounds of principle really. We call ourselves a WARSIM. It is a huge aspect of what defined us as a community and the reason for a lot of people signing up. They didn't join because we were like a clan; they joined because we offered something different than that whole experience. At this point, we have become so disconnected from the WARSIM aspect that we might as well start calling battles clan days and list squads as clans.

    Point is, if we are going to bill ourselves as something, we are unsuccessful if we don't deliver. I don't feel that MCC is a cure all; the influx of members will help, but like Anarchy said, we need to start thinking positively and get shit done if we want to see change. But I do hope that as FC progresses and grows we can return to what set us apart. We can get back to actually following through with what we promise.
    Going to far will also drive people away. I have actually recruited real military vets during times where we were really militarized and they left because 1) we are not the military and they do not plan on calling people not in the military (especially when that person above them is some 16 year old kid) sir and 2) role playing as military when they have done the real thing is not something they wish to partake in. Also keep in mind that the majority of our community are between the ages of 16-21. The vast majority of the community does not know how a military actually operates, we just go on how we think it does. Going around and screaming into the mic like it is a real military during bootcamps and training camps is not the way to keep recruits. The idea that we are not military focused enough is a is not a belief held by the majority of the community. It is a belief mostly held by older vets who are very out of touch with the community.

    REDD or BLUE Resistance comes through!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythonian View Post
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