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  1. #21

    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by UnfoldedFreedom View Post
    Judging what you guys are saying its really a redds mentality to challenges they face and instead of overcoming them you want to avoid it and look for an easy way out( This is my interpretation from the comments I have read so i apologize if this doesn't accurately represent all of redd ).
    I've seen that "avoid over conquer" mentality since the day i've joined FC, in whichever army doesn't have you guys. It's always "I don't want to play vbd, can we switch up the rotations" and "vbd should disband" and so on. Personally, I like playing you guys, it's a damn good challenge. but yeah, IMO the problem right now is primarily in the head's of the redd soldiers, and can be solved with just a little bit of effort put in by everyone to practice and get their head in the game. There's no hype for battlenights anymore here. Though, MCC might play a big part in that. Nobody wants to get on and play matchmaking, and not many people have a solid repertoire of customs. Which, of course, leads to less recruits because there's less people playing matchmaking, which leads to playing the same teams that people THINK they can't beat, leading to more demoralization... well, i'm sure you can see the pattern by now.

    it's like I always say, 90% of fc's problems can be solved by just getting on and playing halo.
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  2. #22

    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by tron View Post
    I have a suggestion. Resistance to a draft is because people don't want to be separated from their friends, right? So how about the armies swapping a few whole squads (keeping the squads together), with a view to balancing out the skill levels between the armies? Squad members can even keep their ranks.
    that's a pretty good idea I like it !

  3. #23

    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Rounin View Post
    People are already leaving without the draft because of the skill imbalance. two of our recruits got off early, once after the first game with VbD and the second after the next that followed. honestly I don't think people will leave if the draft happens and if they do it will only be temporary since I personally find it really hard to leave FC regardless of how I feel about the shit job that's been done trying to fix the issues we only seem to be post-poning. Honestly, I've said it once and I'll say it again, Blue seems to be content with how things are going so long as they don't have to face a VbD and they get games Sunday. it seems they can give shits less about how things are effecting REDD members in this community and that's just wrong because it seems it's leaders are like-minded. Now if this is not the case, it certainly seems like it from my perspective and I apologize if it isn't so. I agree with CAW in saying that it is postponing the problem but on the other hand I wouldn't force people to continue to play if they aren't having fun.
    I feel like there is a communication problem between armies because I'm constantly hearing ideas from blue players on how to change things to make it enjoyable to both teams.

    I think we need to have a redd and blue get together on xbox live every week or two weeks that way there is less of a communication barrier.

  4. #24
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    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Rounin View Post
    Honestly, I've said it once and I'll say it again, Blue seems to be content with how things are going so long as they don't have to face a VbD and they get games Sunday. it seems they can give shits less about how things are effecting REDD members in this community and that's just wrong because it seems it's leaders are like-minded. Now if this is not the case, it certainly seems like it from my perspective and I apologize if it isn't so.
    I can't speak for the entire blue army, but at least for me this isn't the case. I remember being on the other side of the skill imbalance (when this whole FC is dying trend started back in Rec3). I hated playing last war because it wasn't fun. It isn't fun being on either side of 400-0 games. Something does need to change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tron View Post
    I have a suggestion. Resistance to a draft is because people don't want to be separated from their friends, right? So how about the armies swapping a few whole squads (keeping the squads together), with a view to balancing out the skill levels between the armies? Squad members can even keep their ranks.
    What squads would be able to transfer? VbD is pretty heavily ingrained in Blue and probably will not switch. Vague Memories is 2/3 of Blue High Command. Umbra is probably blue's weakest squad and only fielded ~4-5 people last BN. Which squad would work for fixing balancing issues?

  5. #25
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    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by silversleek View Post
    What I want is for WC to come to a decision to make a change. Without community feedback. I find our leaders are relying a bit too much on community feedback. What's the point of having leaders if they can't take initiative and make changes on their own? I feel like i've seen more polls for things lately than I have in years. Sometimes, you have to make hard decisions. Sometime's you'll fuck up, but you keep moving forwards. You always strive towards being better than before.
    Community feedback should be very important. Without the community what are we? That said, I can't imagine any decision putting the community in a worse place.


    Quote Originally Posted by silversleek View Post
    I'll be completely honest here, I don't think the skill imbalance is nearly as bad as people are making it out to be, it's just a morale issue. Equinox can easily be a match for VBD if we play at our best, we've had close games that have ended with like, 10 points difference. We've beaten vbd mixes.

    I've played with plenty of people from renegade, and even though they've had a poor record this war, They are easily a match for vague memories and umbra. They've been losing, yes, but they have so much potential. And, I mean a match for them right now, without a month long training montage.

    I can't say much else for terminus/bellator/redwatch/legacy, as I don't know who's active in there.

    But it's 100% a morale issue in my mind. People lost, and that made them not want to play and give it their all, and that made them lose more, and so on. What really needs to happen is something to fix the morale problem, not a skill imbalance (which does exist somewhat, but could easily be overcome with a little bit of practice. The most infuriating thing I hear in the casual vs competitive argument is the casuals not wanting to practice in order to keep up, but still complaining about losing. Surprise.) What that morale solution is I don't know.
    I obviously cannot know about the morale situation in red right now, but the stat book is pretty telling that we do have a skill imbalance. I can't remember playing in a war with this lopsided of games. I see maybe one game that was even remotely close on last Battle Night.

  6. #26

    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    I am going to go ahead and leave this here:

    http://fcwars.net/forums/showthread....on-Suggestions
    As a refresher for the old timers and to bring it up to the attention of our newer members, the above is a list of frequent suggestions that have come up throughout the years. Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with them.
    For those of you that are too lazy and/or indifferent to click the link, this is the bit that is most relevant to the topic at hand:

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchy View Post
    Suggestion: To improve squad equality and make things more fun, we should implement a draft where leaders pick between all the members in FC! Kind of like an NFL Fantasy Draft!

    Answer: Interesting idea, sonny, I can tell you've been thinking long and hard, and I'd be lying if I said this one never crossed my mind. However, back in the good ol' Halo: Reach days this was tried once, albeit in a much different manner and scope, but the result was a cut in our activity to near detrimental levels. People are in a squad because those are the people they like to play with, so splitting people from their friends gets sticky. Put simply, a draft wont happen, at least not in the anywhere near future. People gravitate towards those they want to play with, forcing them elsewhere isn't going to be pretty.
    ----

    Before you begin to consider the idea of a draft, I really encourage you to fully consider the long term effects that it will have in the community. If you are replying with personal feeling attached, I implore you to take a step back and truly analyze the situation.

    Playing with friends:

    The number 1 reason people get on every Sunday to play in battles is because of their friends (besides the existing responsibility some have to their armies, which really only applies to member holding higher ranks and thus are responsible for keeping a consistent attendance), it is truly as simple as that; even more so in the current state of the community (the halo community as a whole). Halo/MCC has become such a hassle to play, that often times people are asking/begging their friends to get on to play on battles. We take away that incentive, that reason to even play, and you will see a significant drop in activity from that particular group of players, the ones that get on to play with their friends. After all, this supposed to be about fun. It is always more fun to play with friends. Win or lose, it is more fun to do so with those you are close with. I think a lot of you are heavily underestimating the importance of this.

    Recruitment and Squads:

    What would happen to recruits and those recruiting to build a squad? Why even recruit if you know that you will soon be split from the person you worked so hard to bring into your squad. The following is a quote from Solus Exsequor from the War Council chat on his approach to recruiting:

    [8/24/2015 2:30:39 PM] Dillon 'Solus' Grant : He doesn't have a secret recipe. I have a standard message I send out. I send out around 30 messages and get 3 responses, one with no thanks and the other two want to join. Normally one of the two you just can't ever get a hold of again and the one is someone who shows up, then you have to retain them. Retention is at around 3/10 right now
    [8/24/2015 2:31:07 PM] Dillon 'Solus' Grant : I used to recruit for 10 hours, I would pull in 2 or 3 guys
    [8/24/2015 2:31:25 PM] Dillon 'Solus' Grant : Of that, one stayed active over around 35 hours of recruiting in a week
    Are you really telling me that people will put that much time into recruiting only to have those people potentially be sent to the other army? Another squad? The entire principle behind squads would be gone. Comradery, companionship, friendships built over time; all that would all be thrown out the window.
    A lot of people make recruitment a personal thing. Retention in part comes to the relationship built with said recruit. You want to make them feel welcomed, part of something, involved with others in their squad (all of which take a lot of time, as stated by Solus). If you take away the importance of squads, kill long lasting bonds and diminish the bonds created between squad mates, what realistic retention methods do you think will be left?

    Returning Members:

    Halo 5 is right around the corner, two months to be exact. With that release, we will inevitably see the return of many older members (it happens with every halo release). A lot of those members will be looking to come back to play with their friends once again. I know for a fact that there are a few members out there that just cannot stand MCC and are indeed waiting for H5 to make a comeback. They will inevitably gravitate towards familiar faces and familiar names. They might even enlist in their old army. A draft may discourage them from even bothering to come back. After all, people want to feel comfortable. Playing with people you know will make them feel at ease, even welcomed.

    Judging Skill:
    I had my own words planned for what issues would surface from dividing the community and members based on skill, but Lith put it very nicely and eloquently. In summary, it would be like a game of pickup dodgeball, with the fat kid getting being picked last, branded and having his feelings hurt. Oh, and not to mention the logistical nightmare it would create.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lithswitch View Post
    To be brutally honest, as requested, the reason why the idea of drafting falls flat every time when open to criticism of the community, is exactly for this reason. How does one set the guideline on determining who is of good skill, and bad skill? Is it based on K/D ratio? Is it based on their synergetic operations within a team? Is it based on their objective stats? Is it based on how many 1v1s they can win? Etcetera, etcetera. And not to mention, has War Council not considered the effects of a potential divide that such an audacious prerequisite like this can have on the community? It encourages labels, labels of which will make people aware that they have skill (inflating their egos), and others who have little skill who probably already have their confidence bust from losing battle night matches. The outcome of this? It will encourage the 'elitist' mindset that that the Halo Bungie forums were plagued with and infamous for which will scare all the so-called 'casuals' away. If such a thing ever happened, which is incredibly likely over time, I can only imagine that our predecessors of Halo 2 will be turning in their graves.
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  7. #27
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    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Quote Originally Posted by Guzzie View Post
    Playing with friends:

    The number 1 reason people get on every Sunday to play in battles is because of their friends (besides the existing responsibility some have to their armies, which really only applies to member holding higher ranks and thus are responsible for keeping a consistent attendance), it is truly as simple as that; even more so in the current state of the community (the halo community as a whole). Halo/MCC has become such a hassle to play, that often times people are asking/begging their friends to get on to play on battles. We take away that incentive, that reason to even play, and you will see a significant drop in activity from that particular group of players, the ones that get on to play with their friends. After all, this supposed to be about fun. It is always more fun to play with friends. Win or lose, it is more fun to do so with those you are close with. I think a lot of you are heavily underestimating the importance of this.
    The fact that this is the number 1 reason people get on is a major problem. I'm not saying playing with friends is bad. The only reason I'm still in this community is because of the people I get to play with. Vague Memories is keeping me in this community. Zeta Crossfire came back last night and he being there made last BN one of the better nights I've had in a long time. If W3z4b1 comes back for Halo 5, I will probably be doing everything in my power to get in the same squad and team on Battle Night as him. I completely understand wanting to play with friends.

    The problem with this being our number 1 reason for showing up on Battle Night is that it makes recruiting/retaining recruits nearly impossible. We are mass recruiting by sending out messages on Xbox Live and posting on forums all over the internet. These people that we are bringing in are not our friends (yet). What reason do they have for showing up on battle night? This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Our primary reason for attending is friendship, how can we possibly grow the community outside what limited circles of friends we currently have?

  8. #28
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    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    Draft sounds good on paper but it will honestly fail. People want to play with their friends, and a draft would take that away from them. Both sides, casual and competitive, should see how a draft isn't the right thing to do. It goes against what FC stands for, which is to have fun. Have fun above all else.

    Casual Camp
    I assume that casuals are in it for the fun. FC is that, fun! A place to get with your FRIENDS, play halo and have fun. Thats what everyone does in this community, play with friends. Why should one group of friends have to give up their fun for the sake of another? I'd quit the community if a group of friends and myself were forced to split up due to us knowing each other well enough and how we play. It'll fix one sides happiness, but will ultimately go against what FC stands for and will drive away a group of people that has been with the community longer than most.

    Competitive Camp
    I already know this side doesn't want the draft. But I'm going to explain it anyway! Chemistry! Chemistry will, 90% of the time, overpower individual skill in Halo games as Halo has always been known as the teamwork>solo FPS. The competitive players in this community know this which is why the disdain for a draft is there. A draft will break every strand of chemistry in this community, which will ruin the experience for everyone sitting in this camp which would in turn lead to players not bothering to show up to BN. Back to square one if so. Has anyone ever played FIFA Ultimate Team or NBA 2K MyTeam? You can stack your team with loads of talent and they can play like shit if the chemistry isn't there. It applies here too, applies in everyday situations. A draft would break chemistry and people will lose the Fun factor in FC. Don't let that happen.


  9. #29

    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    "We all know that VbD is the most competitive squad in this mofo by the simple fact you guys wont let ANYONE into your squad without having a certain standard of skill. when VbD got new members they were from a squad that,at the time, could only compete with VbDs skill and its fairly obvious that it wasn't coincidence that you guys became 'friends' fast. To me it seem you fear losing more then anyone else in this community because you refuse to let anyone else be apart and if you're missing 1 or 2 members of VbD you refuse to put your squad name down on the stat book for fear of getting a loss. I mean lets be honest here, you and Guzzie are like the only active members of VbD in the community in terms of the forum and generally mingling with other community members (mainly guzzie). the other members of VbD probably haven't touch the site since they applied to join the community. They are power you guys can summon whenever Guzzie asks; other then that they have nothing else invested into this community. Main reason no one in BLUE says anything is cause they generate wins so lets just stay hush hush until the shoe is on the other foot shall we?"

    ^ This was posted to me by a certain FC member, I'll respect the anonymity but it may be a valid point.
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  10. #30
    Mystery Meats Co-Founder Platinum's Avatar
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    Re: WC Needs Your Feedback

    This thread went from about why the draft should or shouldn't happen, to VbD.
    Last edited by Platinum; 08-25-2015 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Kentucky Grammar Blows


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