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Thread: FC Update 10.0

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    FC Update 10.0


    Update 10.0

    What It Means To Be a Warsim



    Battle Results for this week were released earlier today, click here if you haven't seen them yet. After the battles concluded, we had a War Council Meeting to discuss the situation and possible things to do about it. Some ideas were long-term, others were short-term. This update will talk about those, as well as the state of the Beta War and some bits on things for the future.

    I'm also using this Update to rant. Lots of that. Fear my soapbox. Read and concede to my perspective. Muahaha.



    The Expectations To Be Met

    FC means a lot of different things to different people. It's one of the unique things about FC, how we draw together so many diverse groups of people with different interests and perspectives. People have varying opinions, and every single issue has multitudes of people supporting it, opposing it, and simultaneously not giving a shit about it.

    FC has always proclaimed to be an open community that tries to allow everyone to participate without any discrimination. We don't limit those allowed to join aside from a age/maturity aspect to try reducing drama. Numerous people have brought up possibilities about discriminating and limiting things in more ways as well, such as restricting things based on skill, or basing it on one's mindset toward how they play Halo, etc.

    Looking back to Halo 2, this Warsim community was founded without any of these complicated notions. It was rather straight-forward: two armies fight and one army wins. Those within the armies do their best to ensure it's their army which ends up victorious, and the cycle continues. Winning and losing is inherent in that. Those who lose try to improve, and those who win continue doing whatever they did right.

    It's been more than 9 years since then. A lot has changed. Organization, logistics, communication... all have improved to an insane degree to how things used to be. However, those are pretty much the only aspects that have seen major improvements. Everything else hasn't been able to see stable improvement and instead fluctuate wildly. These other aspects are overall activity, skill balance, and numbers balance, and are in constant flux, seemingly regardless of anything we've tried doing for the last 6 years that I've been a member.

    The goals we need to work to should be obvious. The path to get there is far from clear-cut, though.



    Edison's Route To Success
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Edison
    I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
    His most famous quote. It's been cited innumerable times and used in countless ways. I'm going to do that also.

    I joined almost exactly 6 years ago. December 14th, 2009, during the final war of Halo 3. From that day until now, we've gone through dozens of leaders, received an excessive amount of feedback, and argued for so many hours that it's scary to think about. The number of WC 'decisions' may be far fewer than 10,000, but we have certainly found some things have have worked, but an even larger number of things which didn't really work out.

    The Suggestions subforum has 8,000+ posts in it, though, and the War Council subforum has 12,000+, and these aren't even counting the discussions that raged before we moved to this website, or the hundreds of thousands of Skype messages, so I don't think we're all that far behind Edison.

    ...So, we've found a lot of ways that don't solve all of our problems. Now what?

    Unfortunately, I'm not here to give you a magical solution that came from an epiphany. While Edison eventually found a way that worked, we haven't quite gotten to that yet. We've got some theories, but nothing that everyone agrees on.


    Approximate attendance over the course of recent wars. You can see the massive peak near the start of Halo 4.
    Want to see the most successful war FC has ever had? Click here.
    The war was so great, this video was made about it.


    A lot of us have been banging our heads on walls trying to come up with one for the last few weeks, though. "What if we try this?" "No, that'll just fuck up this other thing." "What about this?" "Already tried that before." "Anyone have a magic wand?" "How about a draft?" "No, fuck you!" "..." "--Why am I talking to myself?"

    That's about how our meetings go. I usually try to make at least 3 sidelong mentions of a draft each time. Doing so in this Update also, btw.

    So anyway, we don't have a long-term plan right now. In the short term, though, for next week's battles...
    • VbD will play for REDD.
    • Renegade and/or Ghost will help BLUE with numbers. (moreso depending upon turnouts)
    • These aren't actual transfers or squad trades. At this point we just want to get through the Beta War and cross our fingers that more headbanging on walls will give us a solution before January.

    So that's it? Rather disappointed? I got plenty more paragraphs to write, though...



    The Rant, Part 3
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythonian View Post
    FC has been around for 9 years. That means we've done stuff right. Change for the sake of change does nothing but harm. However, the biggest threat to aging communities like us is stagnation. Failing to change and adapt to new circumstances will be our undoing, but likewise changing and adapting when there's no need for it will also hurt us. It's not a simple situation, but deciding when change is needed and when it's not needed is one of the most important aspects of leadership.
    Five months ago, I told this to the War Council in a topic about a possible draft. (See, another sidelong mention. I'm on a roll.).

    That last clause is the most important. "...deciding when change is needed and when it's not needed is one of the most important aspects of leadership."

    Just like how FC means different things to different people, everyone thinks differently about what the actual problems that we face are, and how to go about correcting them. I've got my own opinions and perspectives as well, and many of you reading this do also. To be blunt, 99% of those ideas won't work. These are problems that have been around since Halo 2, and aren't able to be fixed on a whim.

    Many veterans and older members relish in the "good old days" and "how things used to be." Unfortunately those are just fond memories. During the days of Halo 2 and Halo 3, there was still plenty of imbalance and drama, lots of complaining and people leaving for all kinds of reasons. However, there was also much worse organization, logistics, and communication back then. These other issues masked the imbalance and prevented the drama from rampaging like it does these days. I've seen those old threads on the old website.

    So what's my point? Are we fucked to slowly die off?

    Damn, I'm even more pessimistic than I was at the WC meeting. Phoenix really should've done this update instead.

    Turning it around to be a bit more positive: no, I don't think we're fucked.

    But we will be soon if we continue to stagnate.

    "...deciding when change is needed and when it's not needed is one of the most important aspects of leadership."



    The Conclusion of Occlusion

    We've lost motivation. People have been disillusioned. The faults that have been here all along have become increasingly obvious over the years and have taken center stage. Nearly everything else works perfectly smooth, because we fixed those problems. We fixed what we could fix, and are now left with the things that are nigh impossible to fix.

    Nigh impossible without some bloodletting.

    We are a War Simulation Community. We simulate a war. We were founded to be a step above matchmaking, but a step below hyper-competitive things like MLG. We were designed in a way where people need to practice, learn the maps, and put forth effort in order to try bringing their armies to victory. Squad leaders ensure the team is improving. Flag Officers ensure the squad leaders aren't slacking off. The High Command organize the army and oversee operations. The War Council discusses the feedback we get from every level and tries to implement it.

    We are not a casual community. We've never been one and weren't founded to be one. We are not a hyper-competitive community either. We are a Warsim community. We've never been anything else.

    But that doesn't mean we can't improve.

    What does it mean to be a Warsim? It doesn't just mean we have ranks and a chain of command. It means we have winners and losers, and the distinction between those is the focus of Battles. It doesn't necessarily talk about how strict bootcamps need to be, it doesn't necessarily talk about "permission to speak" and "saluting" and "drink the water." Those are connotational aspects. The biggest and most inherent feature of a Warsim is that not everyone can win. Some people will lose, others will win. Don't confuse this statement as saying that skill imbalance is inherent in a Warsim, of course it's not. Imbalance is inherent from something else, which I'll get to in a few paragraphs.


    Comparing you all to my squadmates in Halo 3, to the armies I led in Reach, to Cyberdyne and Net of the Sky in Halo 4... what the fuck happened? FC hasn't changed all that much, it's been you guys. You've gotten lives and responsibilities now, have a new outlook on things and have grown more mature. And that's changed how you interact with FC. That's not a bad thing; it's not even an issue of good or bad. It's just the natural flow of life on the Internet.

    FC hasn't changed much, but it needs to. The members of FC have changed, but FC hasn't been keeping up. We're too stuck in things that have been here since Halo 2. We see the problems but are blind to the solutions, because they "aren't worth it" or would "change too much." I used to be like that too. Just like everyone else, I'm a lot different than how I used to be. Now, I say fuck those excuses. Excuses like those are why we've been stagnating.

    Things like the entire concept of a "squad." Like the organization of the armies. Like group logistics instead of individual logistics. You're probably looking at these sentences like they don't mean anything, just groups of fancy words that sound nice. However, these are the true roots of most problems we have: imbalance and activity. You probably don't understand them and almost certainly don't agree with them right now, but I'm optimistic that one day they will be more than fancy words.

    TL;DR: Draft. (this mention wasn't sidelong; sorry to disappoint)

    That's my perspective. Looking forward to having a nice debate in the replies about this.



    The State of the War

    Soapbox ended. Sorry to take advantage of the fact that I'm writing this update to unfairly subject the community to my perspectives. Usually I'm more subtle. There's a lot of mixed messages in the above sections. 90% of it you've already forgotten. Heck, the fact that I quoted Thomas Edison earlier was likely forgotten until I wrote this sentence to remind you.

    Does that mean I can control your mind? Spoopy.

    So anyway, the Beta War is more than halfway over. We want to do two more weeks of battles. We're trying to have VbD play for REDD to alleviate skill imbalance and have Renegade and/or Ghost potentially play for BLUE depending on how turnouts look. These are obviously not long-term solutions. I want to spread my perspective further within WC over the coming weeks, trying to form a solution that'll actually work long-term.

    WC had one other pseudo-decision during the meeting after battles. We need to remind everyone that we're a Warsim. I made plenty of mentions and sidelong comments about it in the previous sections, as you should recall (controlling your mind FTW), but just to reinforce it: we are a Warsim. Not everyone is suited to a Warsim community. We aren't a casual Customs community. We aren't a Gamebattles community. We're a Warsim community. Even that statement means a lot of different things to different people. I'd love to hear you guys actually take a few minutes and explain what it means to you. What does FC actually mean?

    Attack Plans should be up tomorrow (Wednesday) for this week. Forge isn't likely to be out until next week, which sucks, but that'll still give us one week to see how it works.



    2016, And Hopefully Beyond

    Plan is to survive until next month. We're hoping to start the first main Halo 5 war within the first three weeks of the new year. Not a whole lot has been thought out beyond January.

    ...

    That plan sucks.

    I want FC to survive and thrive for another decade. I hope you guys do too.

    Let me know your responses to my Wall-o'-Text that is this Update. What does FC actually mean to you? What would FC look like in 5 years? 10 years? Would we even still be around?

    That's all I've got.


    ~Mythonian
    Last edited by Mythonian; 12-13-2015 at 11:38 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Re: FC Update 10.0

    I've read it word for word, and I for one like this trail of thought. Why argue when we can "Just Do It", which is really what we as a community should try next. Now, I should be here for next battles as I'll be reunited with my xbox, so i'm curious to see the effectiveness of this temporary fix. I am ready to follow the way of Mythonianology.










  3. #3

    Re: FC Update 10.0

    I'd say you're better off being blunt than being subtle at this point...

    I had a feeling most of the "good old days" are nostalgia based. Remembering things are usually looked at fondly rather than negatively.

    A draft is a good solution, but the logistics of how it would work are flawed (at least with the ideas I've seen so far)

    I have a rather interesting idea for change if those of you are willing to go for it and try it out. It's rather substantial and worthy of a suggestion post once finals are dead and gone. If the general consensus is no, then a draft will be necessary because how many botched BNs is it gonna take before FC implodes? That was rhetorical, I REALLY don't want to find out
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  4. #4
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    Re: FC Update 10.0

    I miss Rec2. If you joined after Rec2 I am very sorry for you. I honestly have no idea why you would say in a community like this.

    We do know what happened with attendance after Rec2. Skill imbalance was rampant in Rec3 and everybody decided that it was the fault of the game. Halo 4 was a bad game and nobody wanted to have fun playing it. Sadly, MCC didn't help that and looking at the numbers Halo 5 isn't a good game either.



    Why I joined FC?

    I was basically done with Halo early 2013. Zeta posted some thread and FC sounded like a half-way decent community where I could play Halo and maybe have some fun. Rec2 was insane. I was all over the community playing in different squads and with different people trying to find my place. Back then I was actually pretty good at Halo because I was regularly playing matchmaking and constantly working to improve my skills.



    What happened?

    Rec2 ended. Redd army won and I thought this community was awesome. Then stuff happened. Some squads transferred. Some other stuff happened. Then we did Rec3. Personally I didn't really mind the battles too much. I was still able to perform well as an individual. What I didn't like was that all of my teammates started to leave the community. Almost all of my newly formed friends just started disappearing. The general consensus at the time was that Halo 4 was a bad game and nobody wanted to play it. I didn't know any better then, so I assumed that was the truth. The war sucked, but I thought peacetime would fix the issues. After all, peacetime after Rec2 caused the problems so it should be pretty easy to just reverse those changes and make everything better.

    Sadly that isn't what happened. Stuff became a lot worse. More people left. More people were dissatisfied. More people were making excuses. Then Rec5. As expected stuff sucked. There was a fleeting moment of incredible awesomeness that was DarkSail Raiders, but that was a small subsection of the community and it was pretty obvious that the experience we had was not the experience everybody else in the community was having.

    Then came an outrageously long peacetime to supposedly fix all of the issues from the end of Halo 4 to prepare us for MCC. Sadly, the only thing that changed was more people left the community.

    If you look back at what was actually tried to fix these issues in the past in situations that are basically identical to what we are experiencing right now we have tried basically all permutations of possible changes. Sending super strong leaders/individuals to another army to build something great. Transferring and trading squads. Waiting. Making excuses. Changing the gametypes and maps. Changing the war map rules. Changing games. The list has basically exhausted all possibilities of hope. It looks like the community is simply going to die.



    What is different?

    My nostalgia is inherently biased, but I look back at Rec2 when universally people were generally happy with the community. Yeah there were complaints about wait times and other minor issues, but at least there were people in the community who were excited to play and showed up on battle nights. My personal experience then was extremely different than what my experience in FC is like now. Then I didn't have friendships throughout the community or even in my squad. I bounced around squads for the majority of that war. I didn't have any strong ties in the community. I was playing in FC because it was fun, not because my friends where in a specific squad.

    Looking at what has changed, now I only play FC because of who I'm playing with. I wouldn't get on for battles (and I don't get on for battles) because I know that most of my friends aren't available so it just wouldn't be any fun.

    Honestly, the core issue that has not been addressed by any change over the last few years is that the community has shifted from a community where I'm playing because it is fun to play in FC to a community where I'm playing because I want to play with my friends.

    It should be extremely obvious that there is an inherent issue with a community where there sole motivation for participation is playing with friends. Why even be in a community to play with friends when you can play with friends whenever you want? You don't need to reserve Sunday nights to play with friends. What is the recruitment model when the community is based on the concept of playing with friends? Who wants to join a community when the selling point is that you'll get to play with your friends?

    We need to be a community where the primary motivation for showing up on battle nights is because people actually want to play FC because they are having fun. If people are only showing up to battle nights because their friends are making them then we are truly lost and I don't see this community lasting more than a few more dissatisfying years.




    If you think that all I've done is complain without offering any constructive solution, you are pretty much correct. I've done my service of offering suggestions to the community in the pastógo look at the suggestions forum if you don't believe me. That said, I do plan on offering a suggestion to possibly fix the issues. Look forward to the return of Houdini's controversially threads coming soon.



  5. #5

    Re: FC Update 10.0

    Great update Myth, can't argue with anything you've said. Unfortunately we will have to come up with a solution very soon as the numbers are dropping fast. That being said, I personally feel that we have waaaaaaaaay too much petty hatred between people here.

    "Oh, he beat me on battle night, therefore he is this/that/the other thing". Please grow up if you have thought this in a past war. We're all here to play and nobody should be hating someone over a gaming community.

    I am well aware that people have been acting begrudgingly recently, and it really doesn't improve the state we're in (if you even want to help), so if possible, please drop any dumb hatred you have for people here if you're reading this. Seriously.

    That being said, if you do want to help this place, make your voice heard. You may feel like an underdog because someone hasn't replied to you, but it means you aren't trying hard enough. Trust me, I've complained about some issues here for months, but I stayed here because I believe that this place can and will change for the better. I'm pretty sure some of you have stayed here for the same reason.
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  6. #6
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    Re: FC Update 10.0

    Originally posted by Thomas Edison

    I never did anything by accident, nor did any of my inventions come by accident; they came by work.
    I know my input will not mean that much because of my lack of activity... which I do apologize for. I've been working with my ISP to get a better Download/Upload speed (currently getting less than 1 Up/Down)...I've been unable to play H5 effectively because of this. But my intentions are in the right place.

    Even though it was a large wall of text, it was definitely an interesting and informative read. Myth you clearly have an understanding of this community that a lot of us could only have achieved from being you, which is nigh impossible.

    I always thought I understood what it took to make this community work, what it took to make each squad practice, scrim or BN come together and allow everyone involved to have a good time - moreso than they would in MM.

    It seems like we've all forgotten about what we really want to take away from this community. Is it friends? A great BN? Or is it really the WarSim atmosphere? Lately it seems that no one is really taking what they want away from this place. Which should start to be asked - What do you expect to take away from this community?

    For me, it was friends who enjoyed to play Halo. I never had any, and the day I joined I found many players and friends even to play the game i love with. Although the WarSim was interesting and took my notice quickly, I originally came to make new Halo friends, and that happened.

    It seems that this community has come a long way, and has gone full circle and is now searching for itself again. What is FC? When you think of FC, does WarSim come to mind? For a lot of the older members I'm sure it does, but what about the newer members?

    I agree that we will need to change if we want to survive, and it seems that we need to do more to make ourselves a community that people want to join.
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    Re: FC Update 10.0

    Well said Myth. FC has gone through many changes, however the communty has never had the courage to make significant changes such as a draft. I'd definitely support one at this point. Sustainability has to be our #1 goal.

    When we first created FC/RVBR almost 10 years ago, we essentially started out with a draft. When you enlisted, we would split the recruits evenly between the armies (unless there was a specific special request). Having a draft shouldn't push people away, it should encourage community bonding (and it's not like you can never play with your friends anymore). If we test out the draft and such and it doesn't work out, then we can simply revert back tonour old standards. I rather try and fail than never try at all.

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    Re: FC Update 10.0

    I have always been in favor of a draft because you get to play with your squad (if it is a squad draft) and the only difference is who is leading the army. Definitely would have to agree that responsibilities and such have over taken older member's lives and we haven't been able to keep up with numbers because maybe people were too reliant on past members coming back or something. But a draft will definitely be a solution to this. The only downside if a squad disappears or dies after the draft then things get messy, but I still agree with it.

  9. #9
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    Re: FC Update 10.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanbh View Post
    Well said Myth. FC has gone through many changes, however the communty has never had the courage to make significant changes such as a draft. I'd definitely support one at this point. Sustainability has to be our #1 goal.

    When we first created FC/RVBR almost 10 years ago, we essentially started out with a draft. When you enlisted, we would split the recruits evenly between the armies (unless there was a specific special request). Having a draft shouldn't push people away, it should encourage community bonding (and it's not like you can never play with your friends anymore). If we test out the draft and such and it doesn't work out, then we can simply revert back tonour old standards. I rather try and fail than never try at all.
    This is the truth. We've tried and failed at so many different things. One more attempt really couldn't hurt us anymore than doing nothing already is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk570 View Post
    I have always been in favor of a draft because you get to play with your squad (if it is a squad draft) and the only difference is who is leading the army. Definitely would have to agree that responsibilities and such have over taken older member's lives and we haven't been able to keep up with numbers because maybe people were too reliant on past members coming back or something. But a draft will definitely be a solution to this. The only downside if a squad disappears or dies after the draft then things get messy, but I still agree with it.
    I was under the impression that the draft on the table was a player draft since there really aren't enough squads to make a draft significant at this point in time. I could be completely wrong though.

  10. #10

    Re: FC Update 10.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Houdini View Post
    I was under the impression that the draft on the table was a player draft since there really aren't enough squads to make a draft significant at this point in time. I could be completely wrong though.
    I believe it is. If a member can find a way to make balanced armies through squads, it would be very difficult unfortunately.
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    Damn you barry, being seductive to all those recruits by painting vivid, purdy imagery with your words.

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