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  1. #1

    Changing the Community for the Better

    I said I was going to wait until after finals, but I have time now and wish to write it so that's what I'm doing

    Some Background and Shtuff

    Everyone has their theories and their ideas on how to "fix" Battlenight. Here's the deal, after dedicating much time to finding a solution to "fix" Battlenight, I have come to the conclusion that there is nothing inherently wrong with Battlenight. Battlenight does what is sought to do, create a war-like simulation where 2 sides fight for territory in a war environment. There was no secret, no surprise. Most of what I hear now is "Battlenight is too competitive!" Certainly true! You are correct! Of course a war is competitive. I'd love to see a war that wasn't competitive because that would truly be something...

    You probably didn't expect to hear that from me, since I was one of the most vocal oppositions to the competitiveness of Battlenight. After a while of searching for solutions, I begin to think that maybe I'm trying to fix the wrong thing. Fix something that just isn't fixable without sacrificing what a war-sim actually is.

    Here's the deal, most people don't have time for this community. It's really demanding. Everyone is so worried that "oh if we don't do something we'll lose recruits oh noes!" That's actually what's doing the opposite. There is absolutely no structure save Battlenight and absolutely no variety. All we do is Battlenight. And it's non-stop almost. Peacetime is a freaking welcome break from the constant pressures of preparing for Battlenight. Let's face it, Battlenight is stressful on anyone in a leadership position. Having to schedule practices, having methods dah dah dah. I have had to sacrifice time with family to make sure everything went smooth during Battlenight. And you damn well bet I have a problem with that! I wonder how much time others have sacrificed. I certainly can't be alone. Unless you don't sleep. At all.

    So with that in mind, I tried to add variety, but didn't have the time and found most in the community don't either. Why do you think every event that's not Battlenight doesn't last long? Blaming and vilifying the people here is pretty damn bad. Expecting people to prep for Battlenight AND attend a thousand events? Let's be realistic please.

    Please remember a week is only 7 days. 7 days, that's it. Not a lot of time when you think about it...

    So all my attempts to add variety with my squad and the community failed because of lack of time.



    Solution!
    Here is the bomb, What if Battlenight wasn't every weekend?
    It would certainly alleviate all the issues I have listed above while giving that variety that will keep the place fresh and new. I have a plan on how to do this also.

    Everything will begin anew after a 3 week period, this means that Battlenight is every 3 weeks rather than every week:
    • One week is Battlenight, which takes place on Saturday and Sunday
    • Another week is a heavy lore-based event that captures the fun of ranks and leadership
    • A "bye-week" for competitive tourneys or fun customs, whatever tickles your fancy


    The heavy lore-based weekend can also affect the warmap so the wars wouldn't extend at all. Even if it doesn't, it extends the war by one third meaning that instead of a 3 month war, it would be a 4 month war, not that bad. I know people are practically begging for lore events to come back, I know there's a demand for it. Even if you're not that interested, are you not going to give it a go and see if you like it? Will you do nothing for the week instead? I for one, am excited at the possibilities for a lore week. We can have all the raids, all the lore of squad tactics. Don't tell me it can't be done dammit, I know it can. If I can get an A in Chemistry, you can set up a Lore week k???

    The "bye-week" is for a nice relaxing week, nothing crazy, some tourneys if you want or some customs on games. Hell take the time to recruit. You got time to recruit and also time to clear your head and do what you want. This will alleviate the stress for both the leaders and the players where leading the community and the craziness that can ensue, it'd be nice to have a little break. And before you say that we shouldn't have to have a break, even when you're having super fun at an amusement park, you still gotta sit down and take a break and eat or just to let the adrenaline wear off a bit. Same concept here.

    Then the Battlenight week. This is just normal Battlenight. Takes place on Saturday and Sunday at 6 as usual. This allows for people that can't come on Sunday for a chance to come Saturday and vice-versa. I believe this setup is worth a shot because I believe it can work. It gives plenty of time for attack plans and even practicing if you like the competition. I expect some truly amazing squads to surface in all of that time. Nothing wrong with that. Just normal Battlenight just 2 days instead of 1 and not every week.

    Whew... Alright that was a lot of information. It's a big change, I know, but let me ask you something; is our current setup working? This is a change that took me a while to come up with. It's thinking outside of the box. It's unconventional, it changes a lot of how this community operates and that is precisely why I believe it will work. This leaves all of the core aspects in while adding many others and changing when things occur. This is what a community will be. What we are currently is a war-sim that does Battlenight. With this, we can actually be what we advertise ourselves be, a community that does wars and more. That is much more appealing to the ear. So be open minded about it, I don't want us to do the shit that isn't working now, I want this place to succeed.

    An argument I can see being made is that now if you miss a weekend, you have to wait an extra 3 weeks. Yes that's absolutely true. If you want to continue having stressful Battlenights because you gotta wait a little longer when you go on vacation, then I don't really have a solution to that. This solution is meant to make more time available to all involved. The current system we have now certainly has its flaws that aren't in this change. If you're thinking this then you are correct. I am under no illusion that this solution is absolutely 100% perfect and perhaps there will be some sacrifices that will need to made by all involved. That's just the way it has to be sometimes...



    The "even though it wasn't supposed to be a rant" Rant
    Allow me to make this next part perfectly clear, because if one more person talks about why another squad is the problem, I'm going to rant like there's no tomorrow. As hilarious as it would be don't let it happen...

    If you are sick of losing in Battlenight, get better. That's it! It's really that simple. I can say that because I'm one of the worst Halo 5 players there is right now. I suck at it. If I want to compete at a higher level I need to get better. "But how do we get better?" You gotta practice and practice and practice. Play with each other on Matchmaking, practice the maps, know the maps. This solution won't make you magically start winning nor was it ever intended to. This is to alleviate harsh time constraints and add variety to a community rapidly growing stale. So please stop blaming that squad over there for being too good and that leader over there for forcing you to play that squad. Back in the last war of MCC, I didn't want my squad to play VbD for that reason. Well you wanna know what happened when I pressured leadership to change that? Well Equinox got the shit end of the stick that night for having to play VbD pretty much the whole night. I don't blame VbD or leadership for that, I blame myself for being a twat. That's what happens when you get into that mindset. And don't even tell me that higher tiered squads need to go. That is just backwards thinking. First you remove one squad, then all of the sudden that squad over there looks a lot better now that the best squad is gone. Better remove them too. Oh you practiced and got too good? Well fuck you. Just stop and work to get better if you hate it so much. I had one of the best nights of my life playing with Ghost when we lost to VbD on Strongholds by 198 points. It was great fun and Solus and the others in the party can attest to that. So if you are sick of losing, you gotta grit your teeth and start practicing. Maybe you won't be the best squad, but you'll be a damn better squad as a result. If not, you have to accept the reality that losing will be common, and you gotta just have fun with it.

    Okay /rant.


    So to recap, Battlenight every 3 weeks on Saturday and Sunday. Inbetween have a lore week and a "bye-week" as explained high above. It can work really well if everyone can see the benefits. I would implore you not to read this one paragraph as a TL;DR because then you don't know the solution and will purposefully make yourself ignorant of a possible good solution.


    Please post your thoughts, no good solution came without criticism. I will adjust accordingly if you make a strong case and make sense.

    EDITS


    The majority wants to do a 2 week cycle. I'm not strongly against it, but I would prefer to have the "Bye-week" potential for community events for such. I want that "Bye-Week" for squad events, community events, and others. I want this to be a week where chemistry is fleshed out for squads through Matchmaking or whatever squad leaders can come up with. I'm willing to compromise with the 2 week cycle, but I truly wouldn't wish to see this thrown out altogether. Adapted maybe?

    Another thing I would like to point out. This solution is also a compromise. The Battlenight is for those that see the potential and fun that comes with Battlenight and would hate to see it go. The lore week is for those that love the lore of FC and want to have the WARSIM fleshed out in a pure role-play environment. The "Bye-week" is for those that desire a lighter side to FC where there are events whether competitive or a little more casual. This week or maybe even couple of days or whatever adaptation is made will allow for recruiting squad building with Matchmaking or other chemistry building techniques. If you only like one of these aspects, note that others around you like the other aspects as well.

    One more thing, this solution does not change any of the core aspects of FC. It only changes the methods that they are implemented. I want the core aspects to be further fleshed out while also paving the ground for everyone to find their place. I wish to see that happen. If I didn't care about the values FC was founded on, I would push for less emphasis on Battlenight and less emphasis on lore. I don't want that. Both have their ups and downs and I want them fully fleshed out. I want to work with vets on the lore week because you guys know much better than me what a role-play of an army looks like in its purest form. I hope this alleviates some concerns?
    Last edited by NervyDestroyer; 12-08-2015 at 11:43 PM.
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  2. #2

    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    I think this is a great idea, but I'm more for 2 weeks as opposed to three (7 days might not be a lot but 21 is over half a month lol). I did actually quote your Skype message about this in the WC meeting but it may have been overlooked. However, this is a solution worthy of discussion, especially given the recent update. Thanks for putting the thread together, Nervy.
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  3. #3

    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    My main worry with this system is that it isn't readily obvious which weeks are battlenight and which weeks are other events. Obviously it will be posted in skype with plenty of time before each event but not everyone has skype/checks the forums (even though they should)
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  4. #4

    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Soap View Post
    I think this is a great idea, but I'm more for 2 weeks as opposed to three (7 days might not be a lot but 21 is over half a month lol). I did actually quote your Skype message about this in the WC meeting but it may have been overlooked. However, this is a solution worthy of discussion, especially given the recent update. Thanks for putting the thread together, Nervy.
    I thought the same thing at first, but I really wanted to include the lore week because there has been a demand for it in the past. It would be a shame not to include it. 21 days is a lot of time and maybe if should be 2 weeks on some rotation scale. It's another thing to consider I suppose

    Quote Originally Posted by polychromeVirus View Post
    My main worry with this system is that it isn't readily obvious which weeks are battlenight and which weeks are other events. Obviously it will be posted in skype with plenty of time before each event but not everyone has skype/checks the forums (even though they should)
    Communication is much better off than it was in the past. I would say this wouldn't be too much of an issue as long as it is emphasized heavily and making sure people know the schedule. There are ways to do this. Something to consider nonetheless, communication would be absolutely necessary.
    Last edited by NervyDestroyer; 12-08-2015 at 11:07 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    I can see this as a test idea, and if it works Hey! if not, well it's good to do lore stuff am I right?










  6. #6

    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    This was probably the most reasonable depiction of what's going on in FC with a reasonable change and timing I've seen in pretty much forever.

    I might suggest an "Every other week" battle night instead, with the inbetweens alternating between a bye and a "lore" type event. Just a suggestion. Ultimately either course is pretty reasonable. People can argue all day about the why, but at the end of the day wars aren't being as fun as they were, and that much is true for almost everyone.

    As for the rant,

    That's what happens when you get into that mindset. And don't even tell me that higher tiered squads need to go. That is just backwards thinking. First you remove one squad, then all of the sudden that squad over there looks a lot better now that the best squad is gone. Better remove them too. Oh you practiced and got too good? Well fuck you.
    I'd guess most people aren't thinking that way. Most people don't want to crucify a bunch of people for skill. But the focus on competition has been creeping up on us a while, and it should still be addressed. People can only practice so much, and while yeah there will always be groups performing better, at some point there's a certain dispersion in skill that has to be addressed in a civil manner for everyone's benefit. It gets painted in a "burn them till they submit" type suggestion, but it's really not, it's just people wanting some sort of progressive measures to prevent exceptionalism, regardless of guessing the cause or motive. It's still an issue IMO, though the solution is obviously not a civil war of turning on eachother that's perceived.



    Back to the suggestion, FC has to evolve. The majority of us aren't 16 year olds clamoring to get on every single Sunday because we have tons of free time and Halo is like the only decent multiplayer game option besides CoD. Judging Halo's population demographic, that won't change anytime soon. We all want wars to be fun, and frankly having less might make them more fun just by being less in our face. If we focus on the fun, the growth will come easily over time.



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  7. #7
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    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    Great suggestion Nervy. I can support this.
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    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    Quote Originally Posted by polychromeVirus View Post
    My main worry with this system is that it isn't readily obvious which weeks are battlenight and which weeks are other events. Obviously it will be posted in skype with plenty of time before each event but not everyone has skype/checks the forums (even though they should)
    Isn't that why there is a chain of command? so we can pass information much more easily?

    I like your idea as well Nervy, even if you are a scrub.

    Although I would rather have the battlenight/lore week cycle between the 2 and leave the bye week out
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  9. #9
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    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    General concensus here is that wars aren't as fun, right? And that people get burned out by the time peacetime rolls around?
    But what about what happens during peacetime? People are eager to get back to the war within a few weeks as well.

    I don't think the schedule of battles is the issue here. That "burnout" is a product of baser issues that color player attitudes during the war. Interarmy differences, personal conflicts across army lines, malcontent attitudes towards leaders, balance-induced drops in motivation, etc. Perhaps we should be addressing those issues rather than throw more time between events?

    If you extend the delay between battles, you lengthen the war even more, and those issues that hurt morale during war will still be there even during "bye" weeks. Then they will be there infecting members for twice or three times as long as they are now.

  10. #10
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    Re: Changing the Community for the Better

    Like a few other people already suggested, I would rather see a 2 week rotation instead of the 3 week rotation listed in the original post. I think 3 weeks might be too long to keep people engaged. Other than that, I would really like to see this implemented. A commitment to battle nights once every two weeks is much more reasonable for me and my current schedule.

    This might have been touched, but I think it is worth emphasizing, this type of culture appeals much more to older members who have other real life commitments. I can't imagine high schoolers or even people with abundant free time to be interested in our community if we are taking a slower pace, but this would appeal more to people who do have other commitments (like me).

    Regarding the competitive nature of wars, I think there is something to be said for making the community entirely competitive and just letting everything play out the way it plays out. There really isn't a problem where the best squad stomps on the worst squads and people either practice or deal with it. The real problem is when people don't agree on the vision for the community.

    In my opinion, that type of culture is not what was established or discussed in my bootcamp or in any of the recruiting information when I joined. I joined under the impression that the only aspect of competition was the fact that the wars had a winner and a loser.

    I think the real reason people get so mad is that when some people think of "competitiveness" they have the same perspective you shared where the winner is the winner and you either practice or deal with it. That is a perfectly fine model and that is something that is viable. That type of culture is basically what MLG type events support.

    The other perspective on competition is more similar to matchmaking. Halo 5 matchmaking at least in my limited experience is actually quite good at creative competitive games that are also balanced. There is still a winner and a loser and everybody is trying to win, but the people you are playing against are balanced against your skill. This is just as much a competitive atmosphere as what MLG type competition supports, it is simply different.

    Balance and competitiveness can exist together, but they don't necessarily have to. If this community wants to shift to a more pure MLG like competitive structure that is fine. The people who don't like this model should leave and the people who stay need to make sure that is the vision that is advertised to recruits. A lot of the conflicts we see are from people using different definitions and expectations of competition.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jam Cliché View Post
    If you extend the delay between battles, you lengthen the war even more, and those issues that hurt morale during war will still be there even during "bye" weeks. Then they will be there infecting members for twice or three times as long as they are now.
    I posted before I read this, but I do think this is an objection that needs to be addressed. If the wars are going smoothly Nervy's plan is solid. When stuff isn't going very well, all we are doing with this system is delaying the inevitable and allowing more time for discontent to be spread.

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