Warmap + forge/test department

[Mythonian]

Okay, sorry I hadn't read through this thread until now. First of all, thank you for the feedback. Constructive criticism always helps. I'll talk about the main point of the thread at the end of this post.

Before that, I can tell there are a lot of misconceptions, so I'll clear up what I can and respond to the relevant topics.

Because i know the last BTB map we played on BN (Sidewinder) has never been tested and has been forged once by our department... after the practice on saturday without giving us a heads up that he changed the map so we could see what changed and could get used to the map before BN started.

This is totally false and I don't know who keeps spreading this misinformation.

The map was forged and adjusted 4 times throughout that week. Twice before Saturday, for instance, and on Saturday I received feedback and suggestions to improve the map, so I immediately got on and made the adjustments within a half-hour. Then, I announced those changes in the same Skype Group that REDD was using to organize their scrims, letting every single officer know of the changes. This was in the middle of scrims, not afterward, and people were still scrimming for nearly another hour after the changes were made.

The changes were made because of feedback, and the announcement was made in a chat that was actively being used and viewed by almost all of REDD officers at the time. Afterward, I even specifically asked if people approved of the removed sniper rifle and how the H1 Magnum felt on the map, but nobody gave me any more feedback after that. If someone missed the announcement messages at the time, its their own fault, not mine, and I'd really appreciate if people could stop blaming me for this.

and there are 8 original 343 maps in the warmap, 343 got around 13 to 17 maps when forge came to halo 5. i still don't understand why you guys did not made the decision to start halo 5 with a smaller warmap so there would only be 343 maps in there so we could all have fun without any problems and/or isseus.

9 of the maps are 343 maps, actually, and we did use a smaller warmap for this war, for the exact reason you were suggesting. Average map count is 24. Just for reference, here's every war since the start of Reach:

• Res1: 20
• L2: 20
• L1: 24
• Rec5: 30
• Rec4: 30
• Rec3: 30
• Rec2: 30
• Rec1: 30
• Rev5: 18
• Rev4: 18
• Rev3: 18
• Rev2: 24
• Rev1: 18

Am I the only one who enjoys the forged maps we have? The only problem I had with Sidewinder was that the DMRs respawned in mid, which allowed people to sit on mid and watch teleporters without ever having to leave for ammo. But besides that, I think the map played fine, even with spartan abilities.

You are not the only one with that opinion. I received feedback from numerous people that they feel the map isn't being fairly criticized or that it played fine for them. (they also almost always agree that the DMRs should be removed and that it'd improve the map greatly)

But also what solus said we are already losing people because of this problem and i can't understand why our test department didn't test those maps before putting them in it's so easy to just send the FC community messages and inv's to test a map and with our feedback the test department immidiatly knows if they have to forge more in that map or just remove it or put it in the warmap.
It isn't the job of the practices to test those maps because it's already to late those maps are already in the warmap.

It's just as simply as it is: the forge department and the test department have to work together more often but before they do that they have to do their jobs as forgers and/or testers instead of just putting maps in the warmap because time ran out...

Very good idea. We did exactly that, and for 3 months we did testing sessions on a weekly basis. This was the point of the Beta War and even after that ended, the Forge Department hosted weekly Testing Sessions for another 5 weeks. I got heaps of feedback about almost all of the 343 maps and dozens of forged maps.

Yet when the army leaders decide they want more remakes instead of the forged maps I said were well-made, we end up with our current warmap. It wasn't a problem with the forge department that we didn't test the maps, it was that the maps we tested were overlooked in favor of other maps for the sake of nostalgia.

I'm all up for switching out a few of the maps, though.

(should clarify that I had no intention of pointing fingers or anything, the FMs had no malicious intent and did not try to fuck things up by any means. For the most part it was an in-the-moment situation and things just kind of ended up this way)

Also should add that several of the tested maps that were actually chosen (Park Viery, Highfire, Zircon, and a few others) just haven't been played yet. They all work great in a competitive game and were tested extensively.

I recall at the point of map selection someone raised the point that midway through selection there was a large abundance of forged maps. I'd prefer more disc bound maps or H5 unique maps in order to match up to the gameplay and mechanics of H5

Yeah, that was me raising that point. I mentioned it before we even started choosing maps also, also stating that we should try keeping forged maps down to 8 at the most. When REDD chose 8 of their 10 starting maps as forged maps I kind of facepalmed.

Will joining the Forge department solve the issues with the maps THIS WAR, or will they be addressed the next war? The issues being broken spawns, maps not fitting our new Spartan abilities, weapon and vehicle placement and flow of the map.

Joining wont fix the problems unless you are a good forger that can give very specific suggestions or make necessary modifications when needed.

To fix the problems, what I need is feedback. If a map is played in practice or if someone is just running around a map, I need opinions and suggestions. There are only so many hours in the week, and I can't do everything. I can fix 95% of the issues on a map but people will still complain about the remaining 5%. For instance, the DMRs on Sidewinder weren't something I realized would become an issue like they did. Getting feedback from as many people as possible is the most direct way to improving how the maps play.

{INSERT ALL POSTS ABOUT SPARTAN ABILITIES}

Specifically on Sidewinder, how did Spartan Abilities mess up the map? Did Sprint let you move around too quickly? Did Clamber let you get to places you shouldn't be able to go to? I'd say no, and also that the spartan abilities caused no issue with the map. If anything, they improved the map because of the added mobility options.

While sandbox differences are inevitable, the presence of sandbox differences does not inherently mean that the map plays poorly or that the flow is bad. Issues with map flow or mobility is usually a separate thing entirely.

{INSERT ALL POSTS ABOUT SPAWN ISSUES}

Halo 5 spawns work like this:

• Find locations close to teammates.
• Remove locations within ~20 meters of enemies.
• Remove locations in enemy line-of-sight. (upto a specific range)
• Spawn player at location.

On Sidewinder, you leave the base almost immediately and never head backwards, due to the nature of the map itself. Therefore, every time the game was finding a spawn point for you, it spawned you at either Cliff, Rampart, or Room. This was where your teammates were almost always located at, so of course it spawned you close to your teammates. The rare times you spawned at the base was because the enemies blocked most spawns at those 3 locations.

This is just how it works in H5. I can't forcibly make you spawn at the base without making the base the ONLY place you spawn at, which is just asking for an insane spawn-trap. This is just how 8v8 spawns work in function, and by no means does it mean spawns are broken.

Broken spawns would be things like spawning at the enemy flag in CTF or out in the middle of nowhere without any cover.

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So, on to the main point of the thread: a suggestion to replace a few forged maps with 343-made ones.

I'd be fine with either way. Maps like Sidewinder, Waterworx, Coagulation, and Halvalla were not tested before they were put into the warmap, so potentially switching them for a better alternative could be done. WC briefly touched on replacing Sidewinder, which will likely happen at some point, and since it seems there's some discontent about things we will certainly look at switching out a few.

Since the warmap was made, I've been bookmarking a bunch of newly forged maps that look good and were stated as playing good competitively, so we have some alternatives that can be used.

Thanks for the feedback about the warmap. I like receiving as much feedback as possible, and if you want to feel free to message me whenever about things, either in a PM or via Skype. This goes for everyone. I can't magically find every problem that exists, so having people point them out is very appreciated! (generally, also giving a suggestion for how to fix a problem is also appreciated instead of just telling me "it's broken!" This thread suggested a fix by replacing some maps with 343 maps, for instance, instead of just complaining)