Halo: Reach Title Update

[Nocte]

@cCrisis.... just think about this...

a US Army sniper is about to shoot his target in the head between the eyes (the perfect shot).... he pulls the trigger... now does the bullet go right where he wanted it? no, its going to be a little to the side, or a little high or a little low (this is also depending on distance from the target)... its kinda what bloom is.... not every shot is going to be 100% accurate....

heres another example...

a US Army Sniper is about to shoot a target board thats about 200 yards away.... he scopes in and the crosshairs are on the center of the target... he rapidly pulls the trigger... did all bullets hits the board? Chances are not... even if he did, they are scattered around pn the board, never on the same spot...

This is exactly why i like bloom and Battlefield lol

That doesn't apply mainly because you never shoot those distances in Reach, plus you are a super human soldier. Another thing is that so many years in the future I think they would design weapons to have less recoil.

Either way however your point does get across pretty well.

[bazongaman502]

That doesn't apply mainly because you never shoot those distances in Reach, plus you are a super human soldier. Another thing is that so many years in the future I think they would design weapons to have less recoil.

Either way however your point does get across pretty well.

just a modern day example... one people can understand

[cCrisis]

Lol no it isn't, CoD uses Hit-Scan..... Every weapon in Call of Duty uses it. Whether firing from the hip or aiming down the sites. The same concept goes for the Bloom in Reach.

Hit-Scan blows it is far from realistic and makes the game less skilled......

ok well i am not going to get into this argument, but i am going to state a few things. cod doesn't blow because of hit-scan, there many other factors that help make it suck. the problem with the realistic part is this. your not holding a gun in real life, your holding a controller, the ability to judge the distance and bullet travel time and gravity effecting a bullet is far from as accurate as in when holding a gun. add in latency from online and it creates sloppy gameplay. could you imagine if you were firing a gun IRL that suddenly the rules of gravity or travel time of a bullet changing constantly? latency is basically changing something that is in theory constant such as the speed of a bullet. halo 3 was fun on LAN but online it was a pain and honestly 10000000000000000% based on connection. if i had host and a good connection i could out BR a pro from any distance farther than 2 feet in front of me. many people blame the netcoding for the shitty online registration on halo 3 but honestly it was the lack of hit-scan and the problems that latency and non hitscan.

something being like real life in a game isn't going to work the same as in real life because it's a virtual world.

the one thing about hitscan is that it is consistent which non hitscan does not have.

[bazongaman502]

your not holding a gun in real life, your holding a controller, the ability to judge the distance and bullet travel time and gravity effecting a bullet is far from as accurate as in when holding a gun. add in latency from online and it creates sloppy gameplay. could you imagine if you were firing a gun IRL that suddenly the rules of gravity or travel time of a bullet changing constantly? latency is basically changing something that is in theory constant such as the speed of a bullet.

uhhhh... Battlefield does it... You try to snipe someone far away from you, you have to shoot above them becuase the bullet eventually dropps... and when they are moving, you have to shoot infront of them... anyways, Bloom is fine and people just complain because they get out DMR'ed due to (what they call) "luck".... theres luck everywhere... you cant get rid of it... heres one that will never go away:

You being shot at and are litterally a 1 shot, but the guy is so far away and has to reload that you can turn a courner and heal.... <--- thats luck.... its everywhere lol

im going to sleep... to sum up with everything i have/would say is "bloom is fine... Reach is fine... adapt or go back to Halo 3... its kinda what most of you want anyways" lol

[cCrisis]

@cCrisis.... just think about this...

a US Army sniper is about to shoot his target in the head between the eyes (the perfect shot).... he pulls the trigger... now does the bullet go right where he wanted it? no, its going to be a little to the side, or a little high or a little low (this is also depending on distance from the target)... its kinda what bloom is.... not every shot is going to be 100% accurate....

heres another example...

a US Army Sniper is about to shoot a target board thats about 200 yards away.... he scopes in and the crosshairs are on the center of the target... he rapidly pulls the trigger... did all bullets hits the board? Chances are not... even if he did, they are scattered around pn the board, never on the same spot...

This is exactly why i like bloom and Battlefield lol

IF you have shot a gun with a scope that is aimed in the exact same place the margin of difference is a few centimeters if not milimeters. the Dmr bloom is more like a few feet off and could be compared to shooting a musket during the civil war. think about a bunch of people standing in a line shooting at another line of people and being hopeful that they hit something.

your second example your basically saying if you spam the shit out of a gun than were it hits the target is all luck?

I don't want to play halo civil reach war with a designated marksmanship musket.

^^you that is funny, i am laughing so hard at that.

hitscan on the other hand is a different argument. non hitscan is fine when playing on LAN and actually i would prefer it not be hitscan on LAN but online it's makes it far from realistic. constant changes in latency makes it impossible to accurately judge where your shot will hit and this is why i don't like non hitscan. the problem is most of us play online and making a game for LAN play is not going to directly transfer well to playing online. when i shoot, i want to know were my shots are going to hit, it's as simple as that. if that means i have to make calculation than so be it but i can't take into account latency. it's not a visable or sensible factor.

[Nocte]

something being like real life in a game isn't going to work the same as in real life because it's a virtual world.

the one thing about hitscan is that it is consistent which non hitscan does not have.

I know all of this, I've read my fair share of articles on Hit-Scan. You say that Hit-Scan is consistent yet the DMR uses it and you say the bloom gives the chance of luck?

Also Battlefield games do not use hit-scan (anymore at least) they use physical bullets. They run on dedicated servers though, which is something that CoD and Halo have yet to do....

In comparison to a game that uses physical bullets correctly, and a game that uses hit-scan. Physical bullets win by a land-slide. They add a more skillful playing style to the game, where as hit-scan robs that skill because a player doesn't have to think before shooting. They can just shoot and hit whatever the hell they are aiming at. This allow shows how hit-scan means less recoil.... Which means that weapons in games because lasers. Look at the an AR from BF:BC2 and compare it to an AR from MW2. The BF AR has more recoil fires physical bullets and takes more skill to use, where as the MW2 AR is just a point and shoot weapon.

Hit-Scan over-all is a cheap way for game companies to take away from the main aspect of a FPS how the weapons fire, to add more detail into how the damn game looks.

IF you have shot a gun with a scope that is aimed in the exact same place the margin of difference is a few centimeters if not milimeters. the Dmr bloom is more like a few feet off and could be compared to shooting a musket during the civil war. think about a bunch of people standing in a line shooting at another line of people and being hopeful that they hit something.

your second example your basically saying if you spam the shit out of a gun than were it hits the target is all luck?

I don't want to play halo civil reach war with a designated marksmanship musket.

^^you that is funny, i am laughing so hard at that.

hitscan on the other hand is a different argument. non hitscan is fine when playing on LAN and actually i would prefer it not be hitscan on LAN but online it's makes it far from realistic. constant changes in latency makes it impossible to accurately judge where your shot will hit and this is why i don't like non hitscan. the problem is most of us play online and making a game for LAN play is not going to directly transfer well to playing online. when i shoot, i want to know were my shots are going to hit, it's as simple as that. if that means i have to make calculation than so be it but i can't take into account latency. it's not a visable or sensible factor.

I don't think you understand why Bloom is put into Reach, bloom is the equivalent of recoil. Bazonga's example of spamming the trigger really fast to very accurate to how the DMR works in Reach. Everytime you fire a shot the weapon kicks back thus making the gun slightly less accurate as you fire rounds, now if you wait after each shot (pacing shots) you won't have the issue of having your weapon fire inaccurately.

As for not having pin-point accuracy on your first shot, thats kinda how a weapon works. Unless you are not moving and your weapon have a set up bi-pod you won't fire pin-point accurately.

Reach added some realism to the game, because Spartan-III's aren't the Spartan-II's.

Luck isn't a factor in this game, I am sorry if you think it is then I really can't argue with you over this subject. You are replacing the realism with "luck" and that means that you have no clue how a weapon really fires.

[Hazy]

So....bloom addition is going to be a game option?

It'll be hard to adjust between the two in games, but you know what? I like that. Nice compromise, 343.

But that's assuming your statement is correct, crisis. If it turns out the removal of bloom is a controller adjustment option or just removed altogether, my thoughts on it will still be as I stated in my last comment.

I only have one thing to say about this whole "hit scan" thing: different games use different mechanics to work. Battlefield aims for realism, and thus focuses on more realistic shooting. Halo is an arcade shooter, and focuses on somewhat...chaotic (if you call it that) gameplay.

The point is neither mechanics are inferior or obsolete, they just fill different purposes. I for one just try to adapt as I switch between the two as I go throughout my games (in all honesty I don't care too much about what mechanic they use, so long as it WORKS)

[cCrisis]

uhhhh... Battlefield does it... You try to snipe someone far away from you, you have to shoot above them becuase the bullet eventually dropps... and when they are moving, you have to shoot infront of them... anyways, Bloom is fine and people just complain because they get out DMR'ed due to (what they call) "luck".... theres luck everywhere... you cant get rid of it... heres one that will never go away:

You being shot at and are litterally a 1 shot, but the guy is so far away and has to reload that you can turn a courner and heal.... <--- thats luck.... its everywhere lol

im going to sleep... to sum up with everything i have/would say is "bloom is fine... Reach is fine... adapt or go back to Halo 3... its kinda what most of you want anyways" lol

your example is not luck. that would be a lack of awarness by the opponent. you could say the fact that your opponent missed his headshot with a sniper as luck but it's a lack of skill at the time he shot the sniper. it was an error made by the opponent not luck.

while we consider a 360 no-scope luck it's not necessarily luck because you can see the opponent, your cross-hair and you squeezed the trigger when you felt the time was right (it would be a very increased level of skill that that time). if you were blindfolded and no-scoped him than that would be luck.

If it is possible to do 100% of the time than it is not luck. you can in theory no-scope someone every time when you do a 360 and shoot. but your level of skill would be off the charts to actually pull it off. you hitting the shot and missing the shot is 100% based on you moving the joystick and pulling the trigger and the other players in the game, it has nothing to do with the game mechanics it's self.

bloom on the other hand you cannot spam as fast as possible and hit every shot every single time you shoot. it's luck and based on a random factor added into the game by the developers. the problem with this is that the odds for the spammer are to great. i have shoot as fast as possible and hit 5 shots from a far distance while the other player who is pacing like they should be hit me 2 or 3 times because there shooting slower. me hitting the 5 shots was 1000% luck because the game could have decided for my bullet to go somewhere else which would have not hit him. was i the player who had properly adjusted to bloom or not? was i the more skilled player or the less skilled player?

[cCrisis]

So....bloom addition is going to be a game option?

It'll be hard to adjust between the two in games, but you know what? I like that. Nice compromise, 343.

But that's assuming your statement is correct, crisis. If it turns out the removal of bloom is a controller adjustment option or just removed altogether, my thoughts on it will still be as I stated in my last comment.

I only have one thing to say about this whole "hit scan" thing: different games use different mechanics to work. Battlefield aims for realism, and thus focuses on more realistic shooting. Halo is an arcade shooter, and focuses on somewhat...chaotic (if you call it that) gameplay.

The point is neither mechanics are inferior or obsolete, they just fill different purposes. I for one just try to adapt as I switch between the two as I go throughout my games (in all honesty I don't care too much about what mechanic they use, so long as it WORKS)

343 has stated a billion times that it will be a game option.

[bazongaman502]

so what would you want...

Bloom removed

or

Bloom removed, but the guns have a recoil

or keep Bloom

???