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  1. #11

    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    I have a religion not based on faith. I have no faith, I just figure that if there is a God out there, I might as well be friends with him. It's worked pretty nice so far.


  2. #12

    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    I'm a Christian. Not religious. Not a psycho. Not an extremist. I live by faith. I do not care if I can not see God with my own eyes. I can feel his peace and I can see his work in my life. I see signs and visual physical miracles all for the glory of my God. Yes I've even experienced my aunt being healed by cancer. I do not care about the problems I face and the attacks and tribulations because I have seen how all works for the best when you put your faith in God. So people say God is evil and this and that because he permits or somehow orders evil things to happen. It really is us that bring it all on ourselfs. He offers so many great opportunities but naturally we believe we know it all and we can do it all but we are weak. Nobody can provide the strength that God provides for me. I've never felt as great as I feel now that I accepted Christ. So ill have you guys know from now, I am in no place to put anybody down, judge, or attack, I am just here to say what I know is true. If I at a point stop posting or feel like stopping its because I believe it is getting immature or childish. Now the Noah Question, If you read over the story you will be informed exactly how big the ark was and that it is in fact possible to fit 2 of each. Intact it was proven on the history channel. Now about the fish, duh of coarse they died, that was the plan, to wipe out all the impurities and have a fresh start. All though man was quite stupid and ran towards the grasp of the devil again. In the end, if you don't want to believe its fine its on you. God won't force you and I won't, and if anybody does try then they are not true followers of Christ. Just know that you were spoken to about God and you were warned about hell, so when you stand before his presence that soon to come day you have no excuse

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  3. #13
    Senior Citizen Nocte's Avatar
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    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    Not to much debating haha, more of telling one another our views.

    So Mede I have to ask, what drew you to excepting Jesus and having your opinion in God be so strong? For me I fell out of believing in God, when I was in 7th grade when I was learning about the Medieval era of Europe and priests would tell people if you paid money to the church your loved one even in hell would go to heaven. That just shows me that religion was nothing more then a hoax to control people. (During that time) I do believe that when Jesus created Christianity his intentions were to bring people together in a peaceful and loving manner. However you allow people to take the reigns and things become corrupt.


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  4. #14
    Senior Citizen Acid's Avatar
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    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    Quote Originally Posted by MedeDust View Post
    I'm a Christian. Not religious. Not a psycho. Not an extremist. I live by faith. I do not care if I can not see God with my own eyes. I can feel his peace and I can see his work in my life. I see signs and visual physical miracles all for the glory of my God. Yes I've even experienced my aunt being healed by cancer. I do not care about the problems I face and the attacks and tribulations because I have seen how all works for the best when you put your faith in God. So people say God is evil and this and that because he permits or somehow orders evil things to happen. It really is us that bring it all on ourselfs. He offers so many great opportunities but naturally we believe we know it all and we can do it all but we are weak. Nobody can provide the strength that God provides for me. I've never felt as great as I feel now that I accepted Christ. So ill have you guys know from now, I am in no place to put anybody down, judge, or attack, I am just here to say what I know is true. If I at a point stop posting or feel like stopping its because I believe it is getting immature or childish. Now the Noah Question, If you read over the story you will be informed exactly how big the ark was and that it is in fact possible to fit 2 of each. Intact it was proven on the history channel. Now about the fish, duh of coarse they died, that was the plan, to wipe out all the impurities and have a fresh start. All though man was quite stupid and ran towards the grasp of the devil again. In the end, if you don't want to believe its fine its on you. God won't force you and I won't, and if anybody does try then they are not true followers of Christ. Just know that you were spoken to about God and you were warned about hell, so when you stand before his presence that soon to come day you have no excuse

    But can I ask you this?
    What makes your god real, and the Muslim god wrong? Or the Egyptian gods, or the Greek gods?
    And why would God make a vast universe that is expanding in every direction constantly, and just care for one planet, and just for one species on that planet?




  5. #15
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    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    Why are you guys talking about the fourth dimension and saying that we are in the third dimension? We exist in the fourth dimension (which is where space, the first 3 dimensions, combines with time to form spacetime). If you guys are talking about Euclidean space, then this is even more out of context... lol


    Building off of what Mededust said, religion wasn't the cause of any conflicts or wars. People are.

    Bad people will use anything to control others, from money, land, threats, etc. and religion is no different.

    If someone is bribed, do you blame the money? No, you blame the person who bribed him.

    If someone is abusing the faith of others, the faith is not the cause, it is the people abusing their power.


    People forcing their religion on people is indeed something that isn't very good. However, is it the religion's fault? Once again, no: it is the person's fault. As Mededust said, a true follower of Christ doesn't force their religion on others, so those who do are false examples and therefore invalid evidence.


    The corruption of political leaders has nothing to do with the religion itself. That is, again, a people problem, not a religious one.



    Let the debate begin...

    Now, I'd like to take a different approach. Why is it always a debate on religion or the existence of God? Why don't we flip the issue and analyze one of the alternatives?

    I won't get into the pseudo-science of evolutionary theory or even anthropology. I'll stay away from the semantical aspects and focus on some solid, physics-related issues... Heck, I'll even steer clear of the hole-ridden topic of radiometric dating...

    The Big Bang... (recently adjusted with slightly improved models and given a new name, but I'm still calling it this.)

    In Physics, there are certain laws. These laws allow us to understand reality as much as we do, and let us extrapolate a lot of what we don't understand.

    The Big Bang, summarized and paraphrased, is basically that initially, there was no matter, energy, or forces that existed in the universe. Then, one day, "it" exploded. This "it" is unknown and has no logical explanation. However, this "it" exploded and the matter and energy it contained created the initial forces.

    Now, beside the utterly incomprehensibly foolish notion that nothingness can randomly explode without any reasonable cause, all of this matter and energy starts expanding due to the explosion.

    Now, the only possible way for it to escape it's own gravity is to travel with an initial velocity that is greater than the speed of light (much, much greater). I could show you an example of the actual math involved (complete with acceleration vectors and gravitation laws) to prove that it needs to go faster then light.

    Now, this already breaks one commonly held law in physics, that nothing can go faster than the speed of light. This was one of the major issues with the Big Bang, and so scientists, using String Theory, came up with this: "well, since it doesn't make sense, we'll say that when all the forces are combined in the Big Bang, suddenly the laws of physics don't apply."

    Now, why can they do that? Why does everything that explains the existence of the universe suddenly not mean anything at all? Well, they never came up with a good explanation, and there still isn't a valid explanation (there are like 2 half-way decent ones, but the scientific community is split like 60-40 on it).

    Well, let's just let them have their way and pretend that it makes sense...

    Now, as the energy and matter somehow defy physics and go faster then the speed of light, they continue to expand. Now, somehow, they begin to slow down.

    Why?

    Well, they suddenly decided that increased distance allows gravity the start to slow the energy/mass conglomeration... Math: Gravity is an inverse square law! This means that the greater distance means that gravity gets weaker and weaker.

    Well, if gravity is getting weaker, why does that means that it suddenly skips from a power of zero to one of huge magnitude? Well, this isn't very well explained either, and the scientific community doesn't agree on why this suddenly happens.

    One major theory is that such high energy/mass concentration (super-high density) causes gravitation to disappear. Well, this doesn't make sense because blackholes themselves disprove it. Blackholes are the densest objects we can imagine, and they still continue to prove the inverse square law of gravity. (Also, they add validation to the fact that nothing goes faster than light as well).

    Well, ignoring the issue of random gravitation, as the matter and energy continue to expand, all of the others forces take shape and form. The "universe" slows down to under the speed of light, and suddenly (randomly) every law of physics starts working.

    Except, of course, what we use to explain what happened next...

    According to theory, it continues slowing (due to gravity, until it finally gets to our current speed, approximately), and then we have the current universe. Simple, right?

    No. There is another issue that comes up.

    Explosions cause something known as "chaos," which is where the collective motion of particles is unpredictable. Basically, an example of this is a double pendulum. The chaotic motion if completely unpredictable, and no physical models can accurately describe it.

    But how does this apply here? Well, when reality exploded and created the universe, it created it chaotically. This is observationally proven by the fact that galaxies are not evenly distributed.

    So what? Well, if it was chaotic, it would stay chaotic. There is another commonly held law of physics that goes simply, "you cannot create order from chaos." Well, currently, we have the universe split into innumerable galaxies which have more-or-less distributed the galactic matter and energy which supposedly originated from the big bang.

    The facts that, (1) the matter and energy coalesced into galactic discs, (2) they remained stable, (3) carried collective motion and momentum, (4) coalesced into solar systems, (5) coalesced into planets and stars, (6) formed a galactic core with a blackhole, and others, prove that order was created.

    The very fact that order was created from chaos after the time when all laws of physics were supposed to already be taking affect and be maintaining the fabric of reality makes no sense.

    Except, there is one possibility. There is a way that chaos can create order.

    An outside force.



    For now, I've got to start setting up the battles.

    When I have time, I can expand this into the present-day situations regarding dark matter/energy, antimatter, blackholes, redshift, galactic motion and expansion, relativity, and the concept of time. See you guys then!
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  6. #16

    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    Roman Catholic. Re-finding what I know and why I believe. Might post later. Or answer a question if someone wish to pose one at me.

    I believe God exists, still questioning why there are odd fanatics in religion though.
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  7. #17

    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    Eagle: I grew up in a Christian home and learned so much about the bible, I was attacked by demons as a kid and I had psychologists try to diagnose me as insane and I would cry blood because of it. Eventually I decided to hate God like so many people because I blamed him for causing me all this pain and bringing me to this world so I started working with dark majic and all that stuff and became extremely wealthy for an ordinary teen. Too bad I smoked it all away and did some pretty stupid stuff. Problem was though that I ignored the fact that I was gaining so much because of the devil, so when I denied the devil I started plowing everything and became a nobody. I lost all of my so called respect and wealth. I turned to God to talk to him and I knew how to communicate with him, I knew how to pray and what he could do. I never denied he was all powerful I always feared him but it was the fact that after I became his enemy and hell's best friend he still accepted me with open arms that touched me deeply. I took him in and even though I still struggle to live up to this new life I do it all in appreciation. I have a great education ahead of me. I have an awesome family who now respects me. I have the sufficient nescesities to live a comfortable life. And even if I were to one day end up under a bridge half way dead, I will praise him because I at least have a guaranteed eternal life in heaven and I know that some way some how I furthered his plan. Acid: You're asking some very poorly thought-out typical questions. I know my God is real because the experience is real. It has been real, it is real, and it will forever be real. You can say that so many other things could have been the cause of signs and miracles but that's when faith draws in. My God does things, he actually does things. Where are the Greeks and Egyptian Gods now? The Muslim God is the same God even if some may say otherwise. The problem is the way that religion twistes the word of God. All religious branch out from one belief and becomes disrupted along the way as it is interpreted or used for personal gain. As for the universe question, interesting isn't it. Truly breathe taking to wonder about such an amazing great expansion. Who knows really what God has plan but himself. There's certain things that right now he does not tell us for our own good or because there are things we just can not comprehend. He does promise however to one day reveal to us his mysteries and plans Why does he care for us? He loves us he created us at his image. You truly will not understand God's love untill you truly try it first hand.

    ~ Forerunner Conflict War 1 Veteran ~


  8. #18
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    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    umm...Atheist FTW!

  9. #19
    Senior Citizen Puba's Avatar
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    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    i belive that there is a afterlife and i belive in a deity
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  10. #20
    Senior Citizen Acid's Avatar
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    Re: Debate #2 (Religion/God)

    @Mythonian, I'm glad you just didn't say "I believe this because a book says so." Thanks for putting thought into it.

    @MedeDust, there have been stories like that for plenty of other religions. What makes there wrong and yours right? Please answer this.




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