Return of Specific Rank Bars

[Salvanous]

Okay,let me first off say, that I love the art that Mede has done with our current rank bars, I really do love the updated appearance, and all, but we do have some situations with the whole summarized rank bars. So hear me out here.

The first thing that I have noticed, is that less members notice now when they get a promotion. Purplegamer17 didn't realize he had been promoted twice, over the situation. A new rank bar, helps to notifiy our members quickly and effectively.

I have noticed some trouble in members knowing exactly who is what rank inside even their own company. I know that my company knows that I am in charge, followed by Clear, and Lloyd, but everyone else feels very much like a free for all, there isn't order, unless someone posts in their signature what rank they are, and then what is to stop them from lying about their rank? It's something the members shouldn't have to do, and in some cases it can even make the member feel arrogant for boasting their rank.

The biggest thing that I wish changed though, is the drive to get that next rank. With the old rank bars, you worked to try to get the next rank bar, and really see a difference, with these new ranks, you can work for months to even be Major Sergeant of the Army, and STILL have the same rank bar. There isn't that kind of drive to get these ranks that we need to give our fresher members to lead them to being active, and involved with the community.

If High Command each get's their own specialized rank, why can't we do this for the rest of the army? I know it's more work for Mede, or someone else to do, but really, I believe that our members deserve to really feel a sense of achievement, and see it by getting that new rank bar.

I would like to see us return to having more personalized rank bars like we used to, it may be work for the admins to adjust everyone's rank bars, but I do believe it is DEFINITELY for the betterment of the site, and our community's involvement from new, and old members alike.

[Mythonian]

We have discussed various possibilities multiple times over recent months.

We may decide to return to having all ranks with images. At the moment it isn't clear what the future will hold, though.


The reason why HC gets separate images is because those ranks almost never change. For Enlisted, though, keeping them updated is a huge hassle, and it's very easy to get overwhelmed, which therefore causes you to get behind, which means that people won't see their ranks go up for days or weeks...


About members not being aware that they receive promotions: when you promote someone, generally someone is expected to inform that person. In the distant past, armies had formal promotion ceremonies to recognize and congratulate those members. Some veterans have been pushing for the return of that for awhile, and it'd probably be a good idea to have it return.


Just be aware, though, that it's been on our mind for awhile now and will continue to be. We'll likely be discussing it at upcoming WC meetings and will eventually make a final decision about what to do.

[bazongaman502]

I would like to see them go back as well...

However i fully understand why they are the way they are. Its annoying to keep having to change the rank plates all the time... I know durring the beta war Myth had to of hated doing that. There were so many promotions that it was hard to keep up... i think it took myth almost a month to put me as Captain at one point... however i think he did it intentionally >.> lol

However like Salv said, it allows everyone know who is in charge more clearer rather them having to send PMs all the time saying "who is our leader?" or "what rank am i?"

[Salvanous]

Okay in response to it being a hassel, okay sure it'sa hassle, BUT each Company in the most extreme case has 20 members getting promoted, so the admins of that army need to divide up that 20 members.

As the leader of a 37 member Company, I have to type up a weekly log in which I need to list each members rank, profile name, and other information for each member that attends one of each week's 3 practices, meaning I have to type up on average over 20 names (usually closer to 25 members). And then I also need to type up the battlenight log with even more information for all who attend Sunday and that's a 12-18 listing of members too. I have slot more on my plate but you see where I am going This is a hassle, but everyone has some hassle. I know it's something that can be done more easily than some may want it to sound.

The largest amount of work would be implementing the changes to everyone the first time, but that isthe only time where I see this being a larger work load. I know that this is something we should bring back, and EVERYONE can agree with me on that to some extent. I don't mean to sound rude, but to me the only reason I can see it nort being done is out of wanting to be lazy.

I heard that we shifted to these ranks more to make it easier for the newer admins, and I can see that logic, but I think the training wheels have been on long enough. I do think that this is treally worth the time to bring back.

[MedeDust]

I'm lazy. And busy. If they give me a whole list I might do it.

[Mythonian]

Okay in response to it being a hassel, okay sure it'sa hassle, BUT each Company in the most extreme case has 20 members getting promoted, so the admins of that army need to divide up that 20 members.

As the leader of a 37 member Company, I have to type up a weekly log in which I need to list each members rank, profile name, and other information for each member that attends one of each week's 3 practices, meaning I have to type up on average over 20 names (usually closer to 25 members). And then I also need to type up the battlenight log with even more information for all who attend Sunday and that's a 12-18 listing of members too. I have slot more on my plate but you see where I am going This is a hassle, but everyone has some hassle. I know it's something that can be done more easily than some may want it to sound.

The largest amount of work would be implementing the changes to everyone the first time, but that isthe only time where I see this being a larger work load. I know that this is something we should bring back, and EVERYONE can agree with me on that to some extent. I don't mean to sound rude, but to me the only reason I can see it nort being done is out of wanting to be lazy.

I heard that we shifted to these ranks more to make it easier for the newer admins, and I can see that logic, but I think the training wheels have been on long enough. I do think that this is treally worth the time to bring back.

Changed for the newer admins? No, it was changed for all admins.

Changed because we're lazy? You think I'm lazy? When I was FM, I got so behind on doing the ranks, because I was always preoccupied with more important things... like ensuring the army doesn't fall apart... -.- I didn't have the time to spend 4 hours a week doing a menial and repetitive task on top of everything else...

Of course the situation was a bit different then...

I'll give you this: Generals didn't have Admin at that time. If we add back images for all ranks, it will be because of that change.

I'm lazy. And busy. If they give me a whole list I might do it.

Changing usergroups requires admin. You don't have admin at the moment.

[Salvanous]

I'm not saying you are lazy but I mean there are things here that do give me credibility, look at metkil's latest blog about being bored. I'm not saying I expect that Met to spend time changing ranks instead of talking about zombies, and Anarchy HAS done the job of all of High Command for a period of time because the rest of BLUE was gone.

I know that HC is different from admins, but I do mean that people can do what is expected of their rank and more, we have lots of proof there from multiple people. This is something we can do, and it is something relatively easy if divided up. If you see that changing everyone's rank to specified rank is too much work, than maybe the issue we should be tackling is getting more admins.

The later half of your response made it sound like I didn't know what was important to running an army/community and yeah I don't know everything but I DO know this can be done, as we have done it before. I do respect the work that you and others have done, but I do stand by my question Why not revert back? The reasons to go back to me outweigh the reasons to remain where we are. If you see it differently then feel free to enlighten me as I would hate to be pushing something unreasonable and not beneficial.

Also pardon auto correct, typing on my phone...

[Mythonian]

I'm not saying you are lazy but I mean there are things here that do give me credibility, look at metkil's latest blog about being bored. I'm not saying I expect that Met to spend time changing ranks instead of talking about zombies, and Anarchy HAS done the job of all of High Command for a period of time because the rest of BLUE was gone.

I know that HC is different from admins, but I do mean that people can do what is expected of their rank and more, we have lots of proof there from multiple people. This is something we can do, and it is something relatively easy if divided up. If you see that changing everyone's rank to specified rank is too much work, than maybe the issue we should be tackling is getting more admins.

The later half of your response made it sound like you didn't realize what was important to running absent, and yeah I don't know everything but I DO know this can be done, as we have done it before. I do respect the work that you and others have done, but I do stand by my question Why not revert back? The reasons to go back to me outweigh the reasons to remain where we are. If you see it differently then feel free to enlighten me as I would hate to be pushing something unreasonable and not beneficial.

1. You say there's proof from multiple people, yet you seem to ignore most of the past... You say we can do it again because we did it in the past... And yet, in the past, nearly every FM got behind on updating ranks. It's been a trend that consistently happened. We have proof of that.

2. "if divided up" is the key part of that. That option was not always there.

3. Getting more admins? That is not a minor issue. That is something that MUST be done carefully. Giving Admin is giving someone power over the website and the content on it, and that is not something that we just give to people without careful decision-making. Giving Admin to the Generals was through a long, drawn-out, and deliberate discussion by the previous admins and the rest of the High Commands.

4. Reasons to go back... You said that they are: (1) members learn of the promotion, (2) members will have a drive to rank up to see the rank image change. I didn't see you make many other points besides those two. I'll dispute them somewhat:

1. Why do you not inform them of their promotion? As soon as someone is promoted, the first thing you should do is send them a message about it to inform them and congratulate them. As I said before, we used to have entire ceremonies for this. If your members are not being told about their promotions, that is at the fault of those who promoted them.
2. You say they'd be more active if they had a visual representation of their rank. This is probably the most true "benefit" of using images for all ranks. However, the difference is often negligible, and this alone is not necessarily worth the excessive effort required. Additionally, after people have been here for an extended period of time, they realize that enlisted ranks don't mean much, and they could care less if they are SGM or SGT or CPL. And yet, a lot of these individuals are still extremely active and dedicated to the community.

5. Overall, though, I think you are misunderstanding me. In this thread, I've merely represented the devil's advocate. I've never stated that I oppose the change, I've only said that it's not as clearly beneficial as it was being represented as. Both sides of the issue are valid and need to be considered in the decision that will be made.

[Anarchy]

I am in complete agreement with bringing back specific rank images. I'll be honest, I didn't take the time to read the majority of this thread as I am well aware of the pros and cons, but I believe the extra work is beneficial. This war, generals have admin, and that loosens the pressure on FMs to keep these things updated. Both Max and Fuzzy are active generals that can do a lot as admins to make this less of a strain. To top it off, armies aren't really as large as they were pre-firestorm. BLUE has around 8 promotions per week. Split that up between two people, and it really isn't a ton. It's an easy thing to pass off to your general if need be.

The biggest problem with turning back to this would be the initial changing of everyone's rank image. At least from BLUE's standpoint, however, that would not be a problem.

People know when they're promoted. Problem is, they really don't give a damn unless it changes their rank image. Petty, but true.

[RaZ Vader]

I must admit that it was nice to see different rank images for everyone. Myth is right about saying that it was a hassle for many administrators to keep up with the constant rank changes. It is not an easy task. The job alone requires continued updated information throughout the entire army.

The task should be given to the Generals since they now have administrator duties.

As myth stated, future War Council meetings will take place where we can make a final decision on this matter.