Ordinance Drop during battles

[H2O Yordle]

Hard to control a spawn when youre getting spawn killed. Im a terrible sniper so that pretty much put snipe back outta reach for me. Not to mention the sniper spawns like every 3 mins.

[zaradomerix]

[QUOTE=Toast78901;108481]Firstly, I apologize for not having quoted you in my first post. Didn't mean to make it seem detached or depersonalizing.

Secondly, what you're forgetting to mention is ammo. Yeah, they can rain down rockets, but only for so long. Even with the perk for faster ordinances, they can only get another ordinance after approx. 16 kills. (Originally 20, with the perk taking off 20% I believe, taking it down to 16).

So, considering that they have ammo; try to kill them. If you succeed? Great, now go collect those rockets as spoils of war. If not? See if you can't get them to fire to waste shots, don't group up with your team, and don't go into close quarters.

If it's an objective game type, Most objectives are in areas where one can camp, this is true. However, the Forge Dpt. has done a great job of always providing a positional counter to the camper. If it's flag, well, your team shouldn't have been in a position where they dropped the flag in anywhere but the open to begin with. If your carrier ran into a small little place where it's hard to fight against that camper, that was just bad strategy.QUOTE]

I completely understand where you're coming from with the whole strategy thing. obviously you don't go bum rushing the camper in the corner who just dropped in a sniper rifle, but there is a point to what i'm trying to get at. my point is that we have special places for rockets and snipers and shotguns and we know where they are. Why practice to learn all these things if, come battle night, they don't mean squat.
you can get your gun from anywhere and don't have to waste time trying to capture the location that the particular weapon is spawned.

We realize that changing something like this takes a lot of discussion and a lot of people are making some very good points. I myself am enjoying it a lot, but back to your theme of tactics, if you know someone has shotgun, dont get close. if they have sniper dont be out in the open. these are obvious to even the most novice of gamers. but my point is, with ordinance, you have no idea what they have! you cant see it coming! you see a drop come in and you avoid going for the hill because you think they have rockets, when they really got a plasma pistol. or vise versa, if they do get rockets and you assume they got something terrible and rush the hill, your whole team may die trying to go after one person. if you see someone at the shotgun spawn, obviously you won't rush him because chances are he has a shotgun. same thing with sniper spawn or rocket spawn. but when anyone in any random location on the map could have any weapon at any time it makes it very hard to plan out what you're going to do. you say if they have shotgun dont rush. sniper dont be out in open, and rockets dont be near them. but with ordinance they can have all of them at the same time!!!! then what do i do? im backing away from an explosion caused by a rocket when im suddenly sniped in the face and shotgunned in the back simultaniously! there is no defense against that!

[bazongaman502]

In a redd team meeting held by a few senior members we had last night we discussed the beta war and several people said that this was an issue and that it was never resolved.

Because it was never brought up. You can't expect change on something when no one mentioned it lol

[Toast78901]

I completely understand where you're coming from with the whole strategy thing. obviously you don't go bum rushing the camper in the corner who just dropped in a sniper rifle, but there is a point to what i'm trying to get at. my point is that we have special places for rockets and snipers and shotguns and we know where they are. Why practice to learn all these things if, come battle night, they don't mean squat.
you can get your gun from anywhere and don't have to waste time trying to capture the location that the particular weapon is spawned.

We realize that changing something like this takes a lot of discussion and a lot of people are making some very good points. I myself am enjoying it a lot, but back to your theme of tactics, if you know someone has shotgun, dont get close. if they have sniper dont be out in the open. these are obvious to even the most novice of gamers. but my point is, with ordinance, you have no idea what they have! you cant see it coming! you see a drop come in and you avoid going for the hill because you think they have rockets, when they really got a plasma pistol. or vise versa, if they do get rockets and you assume they got something terrible and rush the hill, your whole team may die trying to go after one person. if you see someone at the shotgun spawn, obviously you won't rush him because chances are he has a shotgun. same thing with sniper spawn or rocket spawn. but when anyone in any random location on the map could have any weapon at any time it makes it very hard to plan out what you're going to do. you say if they have shotgun dont rush. sniper dont be out in open, and rockets dont be near them. but with ordinance they can have all of them at the same time!!!! then what do i do? im backing away from an explosion caused by a rocket when im suddenly sniped in the face and shotgunned in the back simultaniously! there is no defense against that!

Who wants a game that is completely predictable? Really? Cause that usually kills a game for me. And the practices and spawns DO mean something. They called in a sniper. Good thing a sniper spawns on the map so I can grab it and kill the guy who called it in.

And, if people do really pass up the initial spawns as much as they are being claimed to (which I, personally, haven't seen), then there's your strategy right there. Other team isn't grabbing anything? Looks like you've got a team of power weapons alllllll to yourself.

And as far as people being scared by unpredictability, well that's just part of gaming. Again, who wants something that is completely predictable? That's part of the fun of it. What I see here is people getting too caught up in their KD ratios and battle results to remember to just have fun with it. Would you really want every single week to be predictable, and essentially the same?

[Gargoyle]

Okie dokie, went through 9 pages, time to give my input.

1. The past.
I've been in FC for a total of 3 halo games so far; Halo 3, Halo: Reach, and now, Halo 4. H3 and Reach both had no ordinance drops and the games preformed just fine. It's something new to Halo and new to FC and IT IS OUR JOBS to try and balance things as much as we can. There's a line between "crying", which many of you so carelessly throw that word around, and trying to make this war balanced, which as I said, is our jobs as leaders.

2. Practice and training.
Through Monday to Saturday, teams practice and train on the maps. Tying into the previous point, ordinance is new. In our past games, our past wars, the victor was the one who truly EARNED it. Those who practice with their team, those who go our there with tactics in their mind, they deserve to win. Blue or Red. This is how it has always been. This (in my mind) is how it always should be.

3. Ordinance Numbers.
A good player SHOULD get an AVERAGE of 2 Ordinance drops per game. Struggling players should get about an average of 1/game. That alone establishes a skill gap. If there's a 10% of a rocket being dropped, that's still a chance. Could you imagine if the other team all got rockets toward the end and stole the game? Is that fair? That brings me into #4.

4. History.
Older members, remember when Andimion forged Red's capital? Adding snipers and lasers? We said not okay. We banned him for that because it was in Red's favor unfairly.
What about when the forge Depart. sees a flaw in a map. Red's side has more cover than blue's. Solution: Add cover for blue. Why? Because in that, Red had an unfair advantage.
Now, look at Ordinance. GRANTED, it is an advantage THROUGH LUCK. It's unfair. Those who argue that it's EARNED, how? The best player on one team could get needlers and gernades, while the worse player on the other team could get a rocket. How is it that they earn anything? Because they got a certain # of points?


I even made my points in different pretty colors so it's better than a wall of white text = tl;dr

[H2O Yordle]

Okie dokie, went through 9 pages, time to give my input.

1. The past.
I've been in FC for a total of 3 halo games so far; Halo 3, Halo: Reach, and now, Halo 4. H3 and Reach both had no ordinance drops and the games preformed just fine. It's something new to Halo and new to FC and IT IS OUR JOBS to try and balance things as much as we can. There's a line between "crying", which many of you so carelessly throw that word around, and trying to make this war balanced, which as I said, is our jobs as leaders.

2. Practice and training.
Through Monday to Saturday, teams practice and train on the maps. Tying into the previous point, ordinance is new. In our past games, our past wars, the victor was the one who truly EARNED it. Those who practice with their team, those who go our there with tactics in their mind, they deserve to win. Blue or Red. This is how it has always been. This (in my mind) is how it always should be.

3. Ordinance Numbers.
A good player SHOULD get an AVERAGE of 2 Ordinance drops per game. Struggling players should get about an average of 1/game. That alone establishes a skill gap. If there's a 10% of a rocket being dropped, that's still a chance. Could you imagine if the other team all got rockets toward the end and stole the game? Is that fair? That brings me into #4.

4. History.
Older members, remember when Andimion forged Red's capital? Adding snipers and lasers? We said not okay. We banned him for that because it was in Red's favor unfairly.
What about when the forge Depart. sees a flaw in a map. Red's side has more cover than blue's. Solution: Add cover for blue. Why? Because in that, Red had an unfair advantage.
Now, look at Ordinance. GRANTED, it is an advantage THROUGH LUCK. It's unfair. Those who argue that it's EARNED, how? The best player on one team could get needlers and gernades, while the worse player on the other team could get a rocket. How is it that they earn anything? Because they got a certain # of points?


I even made my points in different pretty colors so it's better than a wall of white text = tl;dr

What he said.

[bazongaman502]

"Best player gets Snipers and Rockets all the time" (i know no one said these words, but is implied by a few of you).

That is highly false, but also a little true.

I have gone into games where iv got an ordanance drop i didnt like or fit well with how i was playing and i said "Hey, i got an ordanance drop, it has ____, _____, and _____. Who wants what?"

People share, chances are the best player may not get a sniper ever, but is given one.

Its called "sharing".

Example: UNLUCKY is really good with Rockets, im not good with them at all. I get an ordance drop that i dont like but Rockets are an option. 90% of the time i'll give them to UNLUCKY.

People share... there is no imbalance, its just people practice alot and know who is good with what.

Also: I like what Garg typed... valid points

[H2O Yordle]

How are you not good with rockets?

[Specact]

I will agree it makes maps easier to control, BUT that's when it becomes the perfect time for your team to band together. And in terms of snipers, snipe back. What happened to the sniper your side spawns with? If it was stolen, you guys failed as a team to control your own area.

The thing about ordinances is you can have map control. Like I said earlier 1 team goes on a good run. They call in ordinances. They gain map control only because they got those ordinances. In Slayer this isn't as big a deal but in objective, especially KoTH those ordinances can determine a close game. Not map control, awareness, or player skill. I don't see what's wrong with the old system of power weapon spawns. Now where stuck with a system that is based largely on luck and random chance.

[bazongaman502]

How are you not good with rockets?

Im not the best with them... mainly because i dont like using them. More of a sniper and DMR person only. Hardly use the power ups either