Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise

**zaradomerix** · 01-31-2013, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by JamCliche

But the players who got those vehicles earned them. They are on the map. Free to anyone who can get to them and avoid getting killed in the acquisition and subsequent operation. Plasma Pistols, on the other hand, are devastating to vehicles, and everyone can have them.

well i supose when you put it like that... "plasma pistols are devestating to vehicles"... so lets get rid of them. Oh! and while we're at it, i hear rockets and snipers are devestating to poeple! we better get rid of those two. oh and lets not forget how bad grenades hurt your vehicles, better lose those too. I GOT IT! Lets just walk around and shake hands with eachother... unless thats devestating to gloves somehow.

**Harry** · 01-31-2013, 01:05 AM

As long as there are boltshots on the map I can suffice.

:D~

**Jam Cliché** · 01-31-2013, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by zaradomerix

well i supose when you put it like that... "plasma pistols are devestating to vehicles"... so lets get rid of them. Oh! and while we're at it, i hear rockets and snipers are devestating to poeple! we better get rid of those two. oh and lets not forget how bad grenades hurt your vehicles, better lose those too. I GOT IT! Lets just walk around and shake hands with eachother... unless thats devestating to gloves somehow.

You forgot the second half of my statement. Plasma Pistols are devastating to vehicles, and everyone gets one. So the items that have to be earned are topped by items that you start with. Rockets and Snipers have to be earned, too, so I have no problem with them being effective. It's kind of the point. And why does everyone think we're getting rid of them? They're going to be placed on the map! People are too selfish in Halo 4, I guess. If it isn't in your hands to start with, Call of Duty style, then it may as well not exist? Please look at this revision for what it is, nothing more.

You don't have to be snide.

**zaradomerix** · 01-31-2013, 01:25 AM

well you don't like me having a plasma pistol. then the boltshot is bad. i know people that don't like the carbine. or the light rifle. why don't we all just start with no weapons and run around staring at eachother till we find one randomly on the map. you can't remove any item from people's classes because if you remove one someone will want something else removed to be fair. you can't remove any gun completely from the game because someone will want its counter gun removed. guns should be map specific!!!!! long range map=long range guns and short range maps=short range guns. if there are vehicles on the map put rockets on the map, if there are no vehicles the plasma pistol isnt a problem, if there are... well im no genius, but dead people cant shoot guns. maybe try shooting at the person before they shoot you? that might solve your plasma pistol dilema, and if not, maybe you don't have enough skill to be in that vehicle in the first place. you can't be plasma pistolled from across the map unless you are sitting still, in which case it is your fault. if you are being plasma pistolled they must be within close range, shooting them before they get to you isn't that hard. especially since i have to take 10 seconds to switch to and charge my plasma pistol.

**VerbotenDonkey** · 01-31-2013, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by zaradomerix

well you don't like me having a plasma pistol. then the boltshot is bad. i know people that don't like the carbine. or the light rifle. why don't we all just start with no weapons and run around staring at eachother till we find one randomly on the map. you can't remove any item from people's classes because if you remove one someone will want something else removed to be fair. you can't remove any gun completely from the game because someone will want its counter gun removed. guns should be map specific!!!!! long range map=long range guns and short range maps=short range guns. if there are vehicles on the map put rockets on the map, if there are no vehicles the plasma pistol isnt a problem, if there are... well im no genius, but dead people cant shoot guns. maybe try shooting at the person before they shoot you? that might solve your plasma pistol dilema, and if not, maybe you don't have enough skill to be in that vehicle in the first place. you can't be plasma pistolled from across the map unless you are sitting still, in which case it is your fault. if you are being plasma pistolled they must be within close range, shooting them before they get to you isn't that hard. especially since i have to take 10 seconds to switch to and charge my plasma pistol.

Yes, there will be one or two who find a weapon displeasing, however we are dealing with the major majority who dislike something before making a change. And if a major majority dislike a weapon, then we will make amends to make it more enjoyable to them. Just because one gun is removed and someone complains that they dislike another gun so it should be removed as well, unless they have a major majority backing, nothing would be done.

**zaradomerix** · 01-31-2013, 01:31 AM

My point is: Guns cannot be changed! maybe some guns shouldn't be allowed on certain maps, but everyone has a favorite gun, and every gun is someone's favorite. no one will want their gun removed from the map and therefore, this boltshot/plasma pistol argument shuld have been dead before it started.

Moving on to the ordinances, i don't see why people are fighting so hard to keep them? halo has been around for more than ten years and ordinances have never been there before. therefore, no one complained about them. Why is it such a problem to do without them completely? if you are skilled you will win with or without them. If you are going to lose without ordinances, then you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.

And anyone who thinks map ordinance is a solution over personal hasn't though it through much. personal is unfair because it makes the map non-symetrical. It skews the power each team has on a certain portion of the map. Whereas map ordinances spawn randomly. It does not improve on the personal ordinances because they spawn anywhere they feel like! 5 rockets may spawn on one side, and a magnum on the other. or nothing at all on one side and all guns on the other. Computers don't understand fair, they just randomly drop guns whenever the timer hits zero. those of us who do not want personal ordinance do not want ANY ordinance! we aren't arguing no personal ordinance. we are arguing NO ORDINANCE!

**Jam Cliché** · 01-31-2013, 01:35 AM

Originally Posted by zaradomerix

well you don't like me having a plasma pistol. then the boltshot is bad. i know people that don't like the carbine. or the light rifle.

The Light Rifle and Carbine do not each have 10+ pages of debate on them. This compromise is in response to the very real issue of Ordnance Drops and Boltshot.

why don't we all just start with no weapons and run around staring at eachother till we find one randomly on the map. you can't remove any item from people's classes because if you remove one someone will want something else removed to be fair. you can't remove any gun completely from the game because someone will want its counter gun removed.

There people go again, talking like this is going to be a pattern. It is only one revision. You cannot suggest a pattern by citing one event.

guns should be map specific!!!!! long range map=long range guns and short range maps=short range guns. if there are vehicles on the map put rockets on the map, if there are no vehicles the plasma pistol isnt a problem, if there are... well im no genius, but dead people cant shoot guns. maybe try shooting at the person before they shoot you? that might solve your plasma pistol dilema, and if not, maybe you don't have enough skill to be in that vehicle in the first place. you can't be plasma pistolled from across the map unless you are sitting still, in which case it is your fault. if you are being plasma pistolled they must be within close range, shooting them before they get to you isn't that hard. especially since i have to take 10 seconds to switch to and charge my plasma pistol.

You fail to see the point. I have to actively counter everyone else on the enemy team at one time if they all have Plasma Pistols. If I earned my vehicle by going to get it, why should I be worse off than the guy with the Plasma Pistol who can stop me? Sure, I can kill him, but he comes back with another one. If I get into a vehicle I am suddenly on the defensive. That isn't how it is supposed to work. When you move the Plasma Pistol to the map spawn, that means the guy that wants to use it has to earn it, and when I kill him for trying to use it against, he doesn't get a free one when he spawns.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by zaradomerix

My point is: Guns cannot be changed! maybe some guns shouldn't be allowed on certain maps, but everyone has a favorite gun, and every gun is someone's favorite. no one will want their gun removed from the map and therefore, this boltshot/plasma pistol argument shuld have been dead before it started.

They aren't being removed! They're being moved! It's a difference!

Moving on to the ordinances, i don't see why people are fighting so hard to keep them? halo has been around for more than ten years and ordinances have never been there before. therefore, no one complained about them. Why is it such a problem to do without them completely? if you are skilled you will win with or without them. If you are going to lose without ordinances, then you probably didn't deserve to win in the first place.

I can make the same argument for people who can't win AGAINST Ordnance. Everyone has an equal chance of getting them. They are earned.

And anyone who thinks map ordinance is a solution over personal hasn't though it through much. personal is unfair because it makes the map non-symetrical. It skews the power each team has on a certain portion of the map. Whereas map ordinances spawn randomly. It does not improve on the personal ordinances because they spawn anywhere they feel like! 5 rockets may spawn on one side, and a magnum on the other. or nothing at all on one side and all guns on the other. Computers don't understand fair, they just randomly drop guns whenever the timer hits zero. those of us who do not want personal ordinance do not want ANY ordinance! we aren't arguing no personal ordinance. we are arguing NO ORDINANCE!

Woah woah woah. Where did you get the idea that FC's map Ordnances are random? Our are not. They are set on the map just like normal old Halo. Random Ordnance is for matchmaking, none of that here. You need to know that before you go any further with this.

**zaradomerix** · 01-31-2013, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by VerbotenDonkey

Yes, there will be one or two who find a weapon displeasing, however we are dealing with the major majority who dislike something before making a change. And if a major majority dislike a weapon, then we will make amends to make it more enjoyable to them. Just because one gun is removed and someone complains that they dislike another gun so it should be removed as well, unless they have a major majority backing, nothing would be done.

I know majority rule is technically "fair", but we are bound to start losing members when we start removing guns. I personnally know a few who threatened to quit if boltshot is removed. I myself wouldn't quit at the loss of my beloved boltshot, but that is because I am a gamer. a competitor. i stand by everything that fc should stand for. If one person has a weapon, and im getting killed with it, i endure and i adapt myself to beat it. if i can't beat it, join it! use the same gun! that evens the playing field. if you are too proud to kill them with the same gun they are using against you, then that is your personal business.

Personally i hate the boltshot! i think its cheap! its a shotgun that you spawn with! but am i going to vote to remove it from fc? hell no!!! you know why? because even though the boltshot can kill me, it isn't invincible! it has the least range of any gun! anyone choosing to use it is hurting themself because i can use any other gun in the game and kill you while staying safely out of your effective range. the reason all guns are fair is because everyone has the option to use them equally! ordinance is unfair because they are completely random!!! i don't spawn with a random gun, i have a choice!!! whereas with ordinance i could get anything. i could get all guns i hate or all guns i love or nothing at all! it is based on luck, which is not fair for competition play. i can spawn with a boltshot if i feel like it. so can you. but we cant both chose to get rockets in our ordinance every time! sometimes i will not get one and everyone else will! it isn't fair to me to not have one if everyone else has one.