Boltshot & Ordnance Compromise

[PanicPhan]

I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.

[Deaf]

Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic. You're going to alienate many current players and cause much less recruitment. Halo has evolved since its Halo 2 and 3 days, we have to keep moving forward. You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it. Just don't chase people around corners. I personally run nearly every REDD recruit through their boot camps, and I can think of one who used the magnum. It's stupid to take away things that exist and are popular in the game. This pisses me off. The only way I could ever get on board with this is if we just went to straight MLG weapons. A battle rifle and a magnum for everyone and leave the rest up to the players. I would definitely make the argument that the DMR is far more overpowered than the boltshot. But unless you're going to do that, leave ordinance how it is or our entire community will suffer. But I did vote that I liked part of this idea because I do approve of limiting the ordinance drops,though I prefer they not exist so we could only use skill to tell the difference.

[KazuhLLL]

How will we counter vehicles though?

You can still spawn with 2-3 plasma grenades. Those plus team DMR/BR-ing is extremely effective.

Personally I see the Binary and Incineration Cannon as ordnance that should be on the map itself (for example we had an Incineration Cannon on Ragnarok during the Beta War).

Agreed. Those are far too powerful to be earned in ordnance.

The respawn timers only go up to 180 seconds (3 minutes). I believe it can be done using the Dominion Vehicle Pads, but the "charging" timers can be buggy sometimes, so I'm not sure about using them... We can test things out and see how they work.

If plasmas and DMR's aren't enough, simply sticking a PP in or near each team's base with ~1min respawn timer should be sufficient. IMO the only vehicles that actually need a PP to counter effectively are the Scorpion, Wraith, and maybe the Gauss Hog.

Tomorrow (Thursday) at 9:00 PM EST, I'd like to get some nice testing done. If anyone can be there it'd be appreciated.

Fortunately that's the same time as the BP practice, so hopefully I'll be able to get at least 4-5 guys on.

I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.

First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change.
To actually address you're points, though: As someone who plays Halo fairly well I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users. Yes, with a bit of care you can avoid all of the users that suck with it (or are just bad at Halo itself) but a skilled player using the Boltshot will likely end up killing you because of the tiny charge time* of the gun and the absolutely ridiculous range. And the part about stickies is pretty moot because I'd say sticks account for (literally) less than 1/100 of my deaths compared to the Boltshot's 1/10 or so.


*Those who aren't very practiced with the Boltshot may not know that (unlike the Spartan Laser) you do not have to wait for the Boltshot to fire by itself. Once the flaps on the side are fully extended you may let go of the trigger and it will fire at full power--cutting the charge time to about half. This goes for the Railgun as well.

[Al Capone111]

I don't like this at all. This would force players to change their playstyle, and it won't just effect boltshot users. One of my other classes has firepower and it now looks like I won't be able to use that as well. Part of my personal playstyle is getting people to chase me and getting the players foolish enough to come after me with a well timed boltshot. Removing the boltshot is basically only helping the bad players who aren't able to adapt to an opponents strategy. Halo is a game where you need to make smart decisions, you need to know when to chase, when to rush and when to defend. You're changing people's play styles because some players continue to chase at the wrong time and refuse to adjust. You might as well stop letting people spawn with sticky grenades because of all the players that panic stick.

Oh no, we are changing how the minority of people play. Boohoo. Boltshot and Plasma Pistol will still be on the map. How about you try it before complaining.

[Nicholas Sapien]

keep it civil

[THExSPIDERMAN]

Oh no, we are changing how the minority of people play. Boohoo. Boltshot and Plasma Pistol will still be on the map. How about you try it before complaining.

The majority of redd uses boltshots.

[Al Capone111]

The majority of redd uses boltshots.

Uses or relies on it?

And the majority of BLUE doesn't. So instead of one option that favors one army solely, how about we try this option which atleast tries to meet mid way. If it doesn't work, I am willing to bet my car that there will be no shortage of people pissing and moaning here on the forums.

[THExSPIDERMAN]

"First, I must point out the irony that a post complaining about people's lack of adaptation is at the same time adamantly against change."

I'm not against change in Halo as long as it's done by experts who know what they're doing (343), I'm against people who didn't make the game changing it because of some sore losers and ruining play styles.

"As someone who plays Halo fairly well I'd like to say that no amount of "smart decisions" can or will protect you from all Boltshot (ab)users."
Of course smart decisions won't protect you from all of them, there's not a weapon in the game that smart decisions could completely protect you from. But it will protect you from most of them.

"tiny charge time* of the gun and the absolutely ridiculous range."
That tiny charge time gives me more than enough time to dodge, and that "ridiculous range" is like

[Jam Cliché]

I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.

You have made yourself abundantly clear when we discussed this in the past. But very few people can agree on how to treat this feature. That is why we are trying to add more powerful ordnance weapons to the maps themselves and mid-range power ordnance weapons to drops.

Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic... You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it.

The majority of redd uses boltshots.

I just don't see why nobody sees that one's playstyle should not be designed around a secondary weapon. If they are, then said weapon is overpowered. Is it more powerful than power weapons? Perhaps not, but it is clearly too powerful to fulfill its role as secondary.

Anyway, it isn't being removed, it is merely being moved out of the hands of players who just spawned and being put on the map. This is a compromise. Remember that while the majority of REDD may use Boltshots, you also have members in your faction who outright refuse to play because of them.

[KazuhLLL]

I don't like it at all. I want no ordinances. And I have absolutely no problem with the boltshot being in the game. You wanna use the boltshot, fine use it, as long as I can have it too. Don't make it where some people have it sometimes and some don't though as that is a fast track to get people upset. My issue with ordinances is exactly that issue...people have weapons I cannot have whether it's because they got there first or I got a bad roll or whatever other garbage is happening. Anyone can use the boltshot. Not everyone will get a rocket at any given time. I don't want to see people "getting lucky" with their ordinance drops. I want to see the better team win close games.

I must say that none of this makes sense to me. You want ordnance removed completely yet are against this proposed limitation of ordnance (it will never be removed completely because ~50% of people like it). And from what I'm inferring from the rest of it, you prefer everyone to start off on the same playing field and only win because one team is better. Limiting ordnance makes the field itself quite a bit more fair and making everyone spawn with magnums is literally putting them on the same field.

Sorry Myth and Jam. I'm usually on board with your ideas, but I think this idea is just stupid. Seriously, it's plain idiotic. You're going to alienate many current players and cause much less recruitment. Halo has evolved since its Halo 2 and 3 days, we have to keep moving forward. You can't ask all of our players to change their playstyle completely just to appease the few people who cannot adapt to the new metagame. Honestly, roughly 80% of players use the boltshot and have devised their strategies around it. Just don't chase people around corners. I personally run nearly every REDD recruit through their boot camps, and I can think of one who used the magnum. It's stupid to take away things that exist and are popular in the game. This pisses me off. The only way I could ever get on board with this is if we just went to straight MLG weapons. A battle rifle and a magnum for everyone and leave the rest up to the players. I would definitely make the argument that the DMR is far more overpowered than the boltshot. But unless you're going to do that, leave ordinance how it is or our entire community will suffer. But I did vote that I liked part of this idea because I do approve of limiting the ordinance drops,though I prefer they not exist so we could only use skill to tell the difference.

I'm sorry, but the first two of those underlined statements are completely proven invalid (in the context of the FC player-base) by the results of the Boltshot poll. The majority of people in FC (that use the forums) want the Boltshot gone. Here is a solution that makes it mostly gone, yet still allows for it on occasion.
As far as the last statement goes, I find myself wanting to repeat what I just said to PanicPhan. If the idea of a fair playing field is ideal to you, then why be so up in arms about everyone starting with the same secondary? Yes, the field was fair before this proposal (because everyone could spawn with the Boltshot if they so chose) but by spawning with magnums, it deters camping playstyles. And if you're a fan of MLG like your post suggests, then you may agree that (in general) more map movement=more entertaining gameplay.